Worming

[Hawkowl]

I would be interested in what type of wormer people use, how they administer it and when is the best time to worm. :?:

[Falcon]

Most falconers I know don't normally try to worm their birds unless they know they need doing. Basically because it normally means casting the bird and tubing it.

[Saker-Clive]

Sorry Falcon,
got to dissagree, I worm my birds every 3 months. Mainly as a precautionary measure. When the birds eat wild caught rabbit, partridge, pheasant etc. there is always the chance of a parasitic infection.

As for casting and tubing, I use Panacur liquid, which I inject into a chick through the beak or a rat injected through the mouth.
I give initial dose, then dose again after ten days. This second dose makes sure any eggs that may have hatched since the first dose are caught.
The Panacur I get online from www.vet-medic.com 100ml bottle @10% Fenbendazole, £14.99
1ml per 1kg of weight but I have had it on very good authority that slight overdose will not cause any harm or damage.

Most falconers I'm associated with all use this method.
Make sure it is the liquid and not the granules or paste. Hope this helps.

[Gaz]

Same as above,you dont need to cast : ,syringe it in to a chicks throat and feed to a hungry bird...straight down it goes...Hmmm tastes lush.. :mrgreen:

[Bill]

I would be interested in what type of wormer people use :?:

Should put my glasses on Thought it said woman! ! Got quite excited :oops:

[Kornie]

LOL bill.

[Hawkowl]

Cheers thats the method i use but usually once a year . I will now change to every 3 months . Hope to see some of you on Sat at Midlands. :)

[Saker-Clive]

Hawkowl'

If you have been happy with dosing once a year and have no signs of worm, keep it that way. I have just always done it this way as a precaution.
some people dose at the begining and at the end of the season; each to their own.

[Falcon]

Yeah ok! I agree I was probably dated with my answer earlier on! I was going back to Paradise park days nearly 15 years ago! Sorry!!!

[Jiff]

my intention is to send a mute sample to neil forbes,twice a year,just before putting down and just before hunting again and then treating on his recomendation,it only costs 7.50 and illiminates the guess work giving anti biotic anti parasitic medication when not required can't be good for the metabolism which harbours healthy bacteria for the health of the bird.
once you take away this bacteria-gut flora it has to be replaced which means the birds system has to work that little bit harder,and if you'r reducing her weight means a lack of energy,only treat when necesary i say.

[Mr Weim]

after any anti biotic treatment i also give my birds pro biotic which replaces the nasty with freindly gut flora it is available online

[Hawkmaster]

OK my 2 pence worth! Medication in the chick I feel is the best method, for all the reasons mentioned.

Do not worm birds unless there in an infestation, as they can build up an immunity to the drugs used. ,It does not mean you can not get rid of them, just that it will need you to change drugs and we as people, usually stick to the same ones.

The next reason is different drugs also treat different and not all worms, so as Jiff said get a mute sample is the best and see what the story is first.

No need to put exogeneous chemicals into your bird either.

[Gaz]

Meant to say before and after moult. :mrgreen:

[North East Harris Hawker]

panacure is the kit, you can use it on your dog too 8)

[Mr Weim]

Hi guys i thought id add a little more to this thread i wormed my musket yesterday i gave him 0.2 mills of panacur unfortunatly he had a reaction to the wormer and died this morning i did everything to sort him in the end i had to crop tube him to try and bring him back but it wasnt to be :cry: :cry: he will be sadly missed it just goes to show you think you are doing something right by worming your bird but in some cases it doesnt help at all .

[Red Sheridan]

Oh bloody hell, here comes Mr Popular to disagree again!

I fully agree with Falcon's FIRST post and not her second. Why did you change your mind Falcon? If you have a conviction, stick with it. I have a few convictions...........mainly for speeding but that's another matter.
As if that's not enough to take in I also agree completely with Hawkmaster's post.

I wouldn't have bothered to add to this thread except for two reasons. Firstly I want to get out of this bloody egg and stretch my legs and secondly I cannot see now and never have understood why people are so willing to pump chemicals into their birds for no reason.
Three monthly!!! Jesus on a pushbike, that sounds like kill or cure to me. Probably kill, sooner rather than later.

My birds are wormed only if I suspect that there may be a very valid health reason or some positive sign of any infestation. They were last wormed about four or five years ago and are all healthy, bouncing examples. (well, the live ones anyway! :wink: )

'Tis your choice though.

Now where's that toffee hammer.....I want out of this egg.

G'day
Red

PS. If you wanna get laid, crawl up a chicken's ass and wait!

Just thought I'd add that bit for good measure.
Goodnight.

[Jiff]

i sent a mute sample off soon after recieving sky (after the high stress position) i phoned for the advice and was told no action was neccesary,
7.50 cheap for priceless advice :wink:

[Mr Weim]

well arnt you the lucky one then birds can get worms from anywhere as for killing a bird by worming it you worm your f***ing dog why not your bird its general husbandry ive been worming my birds for years and this is the first fatality and i worm every 12 months unless it is needed before did you also know that your bird can catch worms of earthworms as they carry the worm bacteria that affects birds please dont say my bird doesnt eat worms because they all do :evil:

[Bones]

they say that worm larvae can live undisturbed for years on the ground so ive been told and was once told by jenny at the ibr that she had had a lot of people phoning her up to say that there redtails had died after worming them with panacur and to use another alternative other than panacur
but on my harris i worm him every three months as stated in other post i do the birds the same day as my dog and always will so as not to forget
ive never had any probs with it
and sorry to hear about your loss MR WEIM

[Jiff]

i had pigeons for a few years,and was surrounded by people who treat theire birds on a regular basis for every eventuality,infact some treat on a weekly basis,if it aint broke don't fix it,you probably know that all living things including us,can live quite healthily with a certain ammount of infection,by pumping anti-biotics in you can create a worse situation,the anti-biotics have no discrimination and kill all biotics including the pros,this then has to be replaced to keep a healthy ballance,by sending a mute sample the vet will tell you whats present and in what concentration and weather or not treatment is required. common sence to me. plus the vet will tell you of other infections not just worms.

[Troy]

wacht a tv program once whare they was giving folk worm eggs to swallow ! i know it sounds puke ! but they have a therey that with having some worms of certan type is healthy and helps the amune sytem soz about the gramar folks !! i have never wormd a bird yet and have never seen the need !! if there was a a count of how meny bop die each year from worm infestastion i would put my cash on it being very very very low infact i would say it would be none !! even though there is some nasty worms out there ;) ....

[Hawkmaster]

Did he have worms?

[Ian Wileman]

Never worm. Never will. Why worm? Do Harris Hawks (WILD ONES) go to the vet in America every time they make a kill and get a dose of wormer? I agree Jiff, if its not broke.....DONT FIX IT! My birds are bouncing!

[Hawkmaster]

That was my exact point!

[Debbie]

Interesting thread.

Bird owners are advised to worm each year as a precaution. I did to start with for the first 4 years then had trouble getting the Panacur and thought well as I feed him differently I would not bother. (Parrots)

But if I had a Raptor I would worm it once/twice per year as I feel the protection would be benificial with regard to the nature of the food fed.

As for my cats I never worm them but would if they caught birds/mice etc again for the protection.

Debbs

[Red Sheridan]

Mr W says;
>well arnt you the lucky one then birds can get worms from anywhere as for killing a bird by worming it you worm your f***ing dog why not your bird its general husbandry ive been worming my birds for years and this is the first fatality and i worm every 12 months unless it is needed before did you also know that your bird can catch worms of earthworms as they carry the worm bacteria that affects birds please dont say my bird doesnt eat worms because they all do <

No Mr. W, I'm not lucky, I'm careful - there is a difference.

Just so that you can fill in the asterisks on your next post the letters that you seem to be missing are U, C & K. Hope that helps!

Now let's get onto the subject of my dog shall we? You seem to be convinced that I own a dog. Good guess, I do. You also seem to be sure that I regularly worm my dog. Oh dear, bad guess. Same reason as last post.

And finally you say:
> dont say my bird doesnt eat worms because they all do <

I didn't say your bird doesn't eat worms, you did.

Goodnight

Red

[Sprout]

An old thread I know but thought might help out a bit. A lot of people seem to be using panacur and some have mentioned you can't kill a bird by worming it or a slight overdoseage is safe. WRONG. Panacur, even in low dose has an immunosuppressive action and renders birds susceptible to other infections so an overdose can be fatal. It is always advisable to check mute samples first, if there are no worms then don't treat, if there are you know what type are present and in what numbers so the effect of treatment can also be monitored. Killing a large burden of worms can also be fatal to the birds due to the toxic effect of the presence of such a large number of dead worms. If a bird is coughing/gasping and suspect gape worm, treat with panacur without testing faeces and it still carries on coughing how do you know if it was truly worms in the first place? Is it now coughing because worms weren't a problem in the first place and it's something else or worms really are a problem and it is now coughing due to the dead worms still present?? If you test before treating blindly then you know what you are dealing with and can take preacutions. Also there are other drugs than panacur and if worming blindly with one drug constantly you are likely to develop a resistance status in the worms so the drug is no longer effective.

[Coedhirion]

Do not worm birds unless there in an infestation, as they can build up an immunity to the drugs used. ,It does not mean you can not get rid of them, just that it will need you to change drugs and we as people, usually stick to the same ones. I agree with Hawkmaster !!!!
I agree with the posts that say get a mute sample tested. Let the vet tell you what worms (if any) or larvae you need to treat for. 3 mute samples went off other day, all came back totally clear for worms, but one showed minute traces of cocidiosis!!! if it hadnt been tested we could have had a dead bird. Treated, last mute sample came back clear. Why worm if there are none present !!!!!!!!!!!!! Different worms need different drugs any way, how do you know which?? panacure is a limited spectrum and will work just fine for years if there's nothing present!!!

[Sparrow Hawker]

I agree mute tests can show up a number of ailments well worth having done and it's cheap to have done as well. Only worth treating if there are signs of an infestation in my opinion.

Regards,

HH

[Goldie]

That goes for me too. read my signature :lol:

[Jack Merlin]

Just joined this thread. Sounds as if it is getting exciting!<vbg>

I haven't had less than 25 of my own dogs in the kennel in the last 25 years.

A few years ago I noticed worms in the adult dogs' faeces. The worms were hook worms. I asked the vet what they were susceptible to. He told me an ordinary wormer (I use Panacur at the correct dosage) would kill them, but not the eggs. The eggs are killed by frost, also salt, etc.

So I waited for a frosty spell and dosed the lot. Haven't seen a worm since.

Round worm is another matter. They don't bother the adult dogs but do bother pups. I worm the bitch before whelping and then regularly worm the pups after whelping. The older dogs are not wormed regularly, but I would do this if there were young kids around as they can pick up worms from dogs.

I once wormed a peregrine using an old remedy with garlic. Garlic works and it is both natural and safe. I would be reluctant to worm a hawk with anything else unless it had obvious symptoms.

Otherwise, do I worm regularly? No. I only treat when I see the need which isn't very often. Everything looks pretty healthy to me. Good feeding and exercise are the most important things as has been said here before.

[RabbitHawker]

Garlic is a waste of time, apart from keeping the vampires away. Panacur works for most worms, but the dosing schedule will vary depending on the species, so a mute sample is essential.
Panacur is a very safe drug, but care with accurate dosing is needed, esp. in the moult as it can affect feather quality if dosed incorrectly, which would mess up your bird for a season.
Chris

[Ben C]

Jesus thats really bad. Very sorry. My hawk just had .5 mills of panacur over three days for a worm infestation but thankfully had no reaction at all. Kept the sample of worms and the vet said they were such good examples he kept them for his 'HORROR CUPBOARD'.

[Mr_Colin]

OK, I may seem a little backward here but what does mute mean(apart from silence before any smart ass pipes up)

[OutFlying]

mute = bird sh*t

[Saker-Clive]

a turd sample, pooh, ****.................. but the nice and polite way of putting it :lol:

[HawkMan]

Is there any signs when your bird does have worms .

[KevGem1]

hi everybody just came across this thread i was advised to worm my birds twice a year by an avian vet so i do what i have been told by someone who knows far more about the inner workings of a b.o.p than i probably ever will.I worm them when i am putting them up to moult ,and when i bring them out of the moult this way the two times you need to cast your birds you are covering as many jobs as you can therfore hopefully limiting the overall times you have to cast the bird and cause them more stress. personally i use 2 1/2 percent liquid panacure.hope this is of some help KEV.

[OutFlying]

Neil Forbes and other vets I've spoke to recommend not worming without knowing the hawk has worms and what type if any are present before deciding what to administer.

As it only costs £7.50 for a test for worms and other ailments, I'd rather have it tested and give the right treatment rather than dose the hawk with chemicals which might not be required.

OF.

[Red Sheridan]

You've got my vote on that Outflying. Good sense all round.
As I said earlier in the thread, why put chemicals into your bird for no apparent reason? I can't remember when I last wormed any bird and my birds are a picture of health, but that doesn't mean I'm not aware of the possibilities.

Regards,
Red

[Coedhirion]

As posted earlier, friend sent a mute sample and it tested positive for traces of coccidiosis, no worms.
Mr Colin, its the greeny, blacky, yucky bit you send
OK, I may seem a little backward here but what does mute mean
So I shall continue to have mute samples and as no worms have been detected in any birds for ages, thats real simple, they dont get treated, if a sample shows treatment is needed for any problem, then ok

[Ali]

No one in my family has ever used any kind of allopathic medicines for the worms i always give my birds hand made herbal medicine and its an all rounder :lol: the most hard to get the bird free from are tape worms and the pills i make take only 15 minutes to clear the bird from them and you can see it from the eyes of your bird that its fresh as ever good news is the pills are all rounders work for all types of worms. but i know a majority will be thinking of it as a suicidal attempt to give it to the birds thats why i didnt mention the ingredients. hehehehe
Ali

[North East Harris Hawker]

i use that panacure paste a couple of three time a year 8)