When should i start the manning?

[The New Kid]

After buying a bird, how long should i keep it in its weatherings for before i take it out and start manning it?

Thanks
Ciao

Greg

[Sparrow Hawker]

Hi, New Kid

A very good question, I know people may disagree with me but personally I like to allow the bird time to settle in, so I give the bird roughly 2 weeks settling in time. During this period the bird can become accustom to its Jesses, bow perch, sights and sounds etc. The day the bird is purchased its life is about to change and this period is a very stressful and frightening time for the bird.

In my opinion I see little point in manning straight away as I believe this will only further stress the bird and little will be gained from it.

I would like to hear what others think?

All The Best,

Regards,

HH

[The New Kid]

Thanks.

[Hawkmaster]

Hey Kid! There are many ways to do this, you need to take them in and use the method that makes more sense to you.

First let me say I always try to do what is BEST and SAFEST for the birds, and have tried most methods too.

I start manning straight away, there are many benefits, while a bird is still stressed it forgets to freak out over many things and a lot of the time will allow you you do things you will not with a bird that has, so to speak, 'been allowed to settle'.

Stress is stress and when you get a bird it is stressed, when you kit it up it is stressed, everyday it sees you it is stressed, and daily feeds stress it too, so there is always this level of stress, even if it was on the lower scale of things.

By manning from the beginning you stress full on and on a higher scale, and with time and experienced my birds are stress free and flying free in 10 to 14 days from the time I get them.

So work it out, stress for, say a month or stress for two weeks? Look at it as punishment, would you like big time punishment for the 10 days or loads of smaller ones over a longer period of time?

Remember our birds learn through conditioning and over a long period it just teaches birds to be nerveous!

[Sparrow Hawker]

Hi All,

First of all everybody has there own methods and you must do what you think is right and what works for you! It is difficult for the newcomer coming into the sport because they can easily get confused because everybody has a different approach to things. There is no definitive training guide in falconry and as Hawkmaster says you have to do what makes sense to you.

A number of people recommended this settling in period to me and I have found it works for me and makes total sense to me.

Emphasis is based on minimising stress to the bird. The bird is given time to adjust in its new environment, feed on the perch and get used to being tethered and seeing new sights and sounds then I believe training will be a lot easier and put less strain on the bird.

I can only speak from my limited experience and with a Harris.


All The Best,

Regards,

HH

[Kornie]

Well, all I can say is from the word go I introduced my bird to the hoover, me, and all over house hold items which might apear to cause them stress straight away. And the dogs the following day, and by day 3 she was falling asleep on the fist, feeding fine and beggining to get used to the dogs and my mum was hoovering round her perch whilst she was in the house no problems what so ever. And because it worked for me that time theres no point in me experimenting.

Also with Harris hawks becasue they are birds that live and hunt in a pack, a lot of the stress is being left alone and seperated from the group, so my theory is if the bird can establish a bond with you in the first few days its no longer alone.

As Harris Hawk says though its all down to preferance, but after 3 days my bird was barely stressed at all with me picking her up.

[Gaz]

Emphasis is based on minimising stress to the bird. The bird is given time to adjust in its new environment, feed on the perch and get used to being tethered and seeing new sights and sounds then I believe training will be a lot easier and put less strain on the bird.

So its being manned straight away then :mrgreen:

[The New Kid]

Thanks everyone... I think i'll give it a day when i get it... Not sure though :-P have to think about it

[Hawkmaster]

Just start straight away, there is NO point in delaying anything?

[Wightwings]

words of wisdom. Must admit every bird I have had i get home and spend time with straight out of the transport box

[Sparrow Hawker]

Is it just me on this forum who undertakes this settling in period? or does anybody else do it?

All The Best,

Regards,

HH

[Wightwings]

I'm sure people do HH its each to there own i suppose. I take the same view as HM on this though why double the stress, what will settling in acheive the bird is in a new environment for a week, or two as some will say and you start again with a fresh lot of stress with the manning porcess when in truth if done right after two weeks you should not be far of your first free flight. Especially with social birds such as the HH. personnally i like to get on with it.

[North East Harris Hawker]

personally i go for 7 - 10 days before picking the bird up, and i feed the night before and man the bird at a higher weight, the result is a bird that feeds on the glove at a higher weight and ultimately flies at a higher weight!

[Hawkmaster]

So in theory then if you take say a female red out of the avairy at 3 lbs 10 oz she will be higher in weight when flying than one that was left to settle?

I doubt it. A birds flying weight is its flying weight. Take falcons most will eat the same day on the fist or at worst the next day.

I am open to be convinced but I need the PROOF! lol

[The New Kid]

Okie doke, i'll start straight away :-D

Also, How much am i likely to get a Red Tailed Buzzard for?
Thanks

Ciao

Greg

[Wightwings]

over to you Hawkmaster, I would personnaly not have any idea.

[Jiff]

hey new kid pretty confusing eh,just picked up on this thread,i'm not going to tell you how when and why cos i don't have a bird yet.however i can sympathise with you'r position as i've been there myself,because everyone with experience has there own way of doing it i looked at all the options and considered them for a long time,in this time i came accross martin hollinshead,i met him at a club meet baught his books and now have just about addopted him as my mentor,i'll do my thing as martin does his(and if it goes tits up i'll be sure to let him know :lol: ) this was my way of dealing with the confusion pick you'r method early on and learn it well before you get you'r bird then stick to it,take in what others say because if it's not going to plan you can make subtle changes,and don't forget if all's not well the forum is a click of a button away :wink:

[Sparrow Hawker]

Hi All,

This thread is very interesting, cracking posts.

I’ll try and justify what I do and the thoughts behind my approach.

(I have included this paragraph elsewhere on the forum). One of the reasons I use the settling in period is so that the bird which has come straight out of the breeding chamber away from its parents can start to become independent, after all its used to being with its parents you take them away and then if manning straight away you are directly feeding the bird, possibly mimicking the feeding the parents did. Whether what I do make’s a difference is a matter of opinion but I’m confident in my approach.

Although I do not offer any food via the fist during this settling in period what my approach is I purchase the bird, have all the equipment fitted weigh the bird in the hood to get the fat weight then I place the bird on the lawn on a Bow, keeping a close eye on it. In the evening I place the bird in the Aviary on the Bow with a section of carpet to protect the bird whilst baiting, the bird will be fed on full rations and fed via my food chute. Once the bird is sitting comfortably on the Bow and jumping back up to the bow I will weather and weigh the bird daily.

The end result if all goes well is whilst manning the bird and getting the bird to except the food via the fist is that if the bird bates it instantly jumps back up on to the fist, this I believe this is due to it learning the restraints of the jesses and leash etc.

In my opinion I have seen birds straight out of the aviary and manned straight away and they spend much of the time hanging upside down, which surely stresses the bird further.


Hi, Jiff what do you reckon about my settling in period approach?

This forums great as everybody has different opinions and views!


All The Best,

Regards,

HH

[Hawkmaster]

OK first question is DO you want to hunt?

[Wightwings]

yes

[The New Kid]

Yeah

[Kornie]

Hm, your keeping us in suspense here.... lol, Greg what I did when i was being "advised" on what to do was just pick out the bits that sounded good and intermingle them into one great big super method! If that makes any sense.

Harris Hawk I can see your point about the hanging upside down and playing dead, luckily this didn't happen to me. (my bird was tough enough to face me like a man :lol:)

[Jiff]

harrishawker,looked into the settling in period and thought about it for a while,but the more i learnt of the harris the more i was drawn to immediate manning,i'm sure with pcychos' like the gos for instance steaming ahead will have at times the wrong effect,don't get me wrong i bet not all harris' are pushovers which is why i've taken a long time over this, once i get her she'll be with me for the rest of her days(thats the way i am) so i want to be sure that if things don't go like clock work i can change the routine,a settling in period is'nt totaly ruled out,i'll see how she reacts to the hood and the journey home watch her posture and her behaviour and go hour by hour the first day,and work from that. :wink:

[Wightwings]

common sense Jiff well said. opinions do and always will vary, we all need to learn and every bird is an individual. the basic principles are the same, however, if the end result is fun, enjoyment and reward what more do you want. :wink:

[Annie]

It's great you guys are taking the time to explain your different ways with us. I have visited several centres and received a very mixed bunch of encouragement and discouragement, in one case being told if I wanted to be with birds I should get a job working with them rather than owning one! This sort of attitude I believe could result in people being too afraid to ask questions. The best advice I received was from the National Birds of Prey Centre who warned I would get different advice from different people and to find someone who I felt I could trust and follow their procedure. This I have been fortunate in obtaining in my voluntary work, the gentleman I help is teaching me the good and the bad and ensures I have done my 'homework' by asking lots of questions as well as going back over basics and if and when he feels i'm ready that is when I will get my own bird. Like he says 'there isn't a right way, but there's definetely a wrong way'.

I'm not going to be embarrased in asking you guy's questions, because I am learning and at the end of the day the birds welfare comes first.

[Darren]

I have been told the same by Graham at Gauntlet birds of prey that everyone does it different & that doesnt make it wrong....different things work for different people & birds

[Hawkmaster]

Most my students, get a bird, start manning that day, fly free in 14 or so days and go hunting, no problems with screaming EVER!

This method works and so does settling in, but if you use the stress arguement then it does not tally?

I do like Harris Hawkers justification above: BUT is goes so quick my way that I will have a bird flying free and start hunting before the settling in methods starts manning?

[The New Kid]

well, straight away is certainly sounding the best
ciao

greg

[The New Kid]

woooo, im a chick now :-P

[Wightwings]

cool NK, keep it up mate not far of a brancher :mrgreen:

[North East Harris Hawker]

So in theory then if you take say a female red out of the avairy at 3 lbs 10 oz she will be higher in weight when flying than one that was left to settle?

I doubt it. A birds flying weight is its flying weight. Take falcons most will eat the same day on the fist or at worst the next day.

I am open to be convinced but I need the PROOF! lol
think about it, if the bird is tamed higher, it will feed higher, it will chase a lure higher! ive tried it and it works, theres a chap here who has flown gosses for over 25yrs and he does the same
have a go!

[Hoodwink]

Well guys some interesting threads here, I dont plan on getting my bird till later next summer, but at the moment I'm going for the settling way, or at least till the bird is sat on the bow and eating,

[North East Harris Hawker]

how come your waiting so long before getting your bird?

[The New Kid]

Who, Me?

If the question was directed towards me, its because of money and time... :P

[Grand Master Falconer]

Haven't read all the posts but I think Gaz has a valid point, the process of Manning being to allow your hawk to become used to the sights and sounds of everyday life as a falconers bird, If you were to allow your bird a settling in period it would have to be in seclusion for it to be stress free. Thereby experiencing no manning whatsoever. we touched on this point in a thread on imprinting, allowing the hawk to feel independant.
On saying that, as a traditionalist I usually do the stay up all night with the bird on yer fist thang. As Hawkmaster said using a full on approach gets all the stress and upset out of the way early on.
Day 1 with new hawk should include : Being introduced to: the Hood, the mews, the weathering area, the scales, the glove, the dog and so on ,the more your bird meets the first day the less surprises it has to cope with as you go along thus the less stress.
If you hood your bird early on you can reduce the overall stress of manning by introducing her to noises first then movement later, she will not bate at noises when hooded cos she don't know where to go. thus manning a hawk hooded is most helpful this is the reason hoods were invented and have been used for so many generations. most falcons/hawks are clever enough to associate the new movements with the sounds they have already established are no threat thus are much less likely to bate once they are manned unhooded. Generally the less stressed the bird is the less stressed you is so everybodys happy.
Do what you like, thats the joy of falconry, there are so many right ways, but only listen to advise which is backed up by an explaination.
Best wishes
Rick

[Grand Master Falconer]

The basis of what Nehh is saying, is that the bird has more fat to turn into muscle, it is essentially correct, but a method best left to people who have a greater understanding of weight control. If you were to attempt flying your first bird to this regime you could soon find your self thumbing through the Cage and Aviary looking for another one.

[The New Kid]

Thanks GMF :D

[Shaun Byrne]

GMF, turn fat into muscle, I dont think so! You'll be telling us you can turn water into wine next! lol!!

[Hawkmaster]

No, but I think what GMF was meaning is the body fat is used to feed and sustain the hawk and muscle growth is then easier to attain?

[Wightwings]

sooo many views and opinions on this subject :? :? the real truth is as gmf has said, Falconery is a great personal choice subject. the only true way of finding out what is best for you is trying the different methods

[Grand Master Falconer]

i've got some water here, red wine anyone?

[Johnny]

Ive never been on a course never really touch a bird in me life till 6 months ago ?
I did plenty of reading but it goes over your head most of it till you,ve got your bird .
I think its upto the individual what they want and the time they put into their bird and common sense .
Ive got an owl and a hawk flying free to the fist and they are both good birds to handle .
I feel as though the site has help me enormously taking bits of information of each individual .
As for flying a bird well over its hunting weight id be scared of it not coming back id like to see if it can be done ?
All the best
Johnny

[Shaun Byrne]

GMF, yes please, and can you sort my 4999 mates as well? Maybe a few Tuna Sarnies? lol!!

[Albie]

When I bought my Male Harris Nimbus at 16 weeks old Under the guidence of Hawkmaster we collected it from the breeder at an airport named Hawarden near Chester, we then flew (with the bird in a suitable box) back to Exeter in Devon, the flight took 1hour 20mins.
We then sat in my van and Paul kitted my bird up for me.
Nimbus started his manning right there and then he travelled the 26 miles from Exeter airport to my house sitting on my Daughters fist and only baited once on the journey.
When we got home he was introduced to our two lurchers and everyting else that was needed to make him into Great Harris that he is today.
Nobody could afford to buy this bird from me! and thats a fact.
Albie.. :wink:

[Jiff]

don't know what approach i've taken realy,if you wrote it down i think it would incorporate a bit of every thing,the only thing i was strict with was the hood being used from the off this however lengthens manning,as manning doesnt start till the bird is tame enough to be approached,after that the hood was off and she was exposed to anything and every thing,a lot longer it took than say one of you experianced guy's might of taken but the end result is great and real fun to be arround,she had her first day in the field yesterday which i'll be adding to my diary later.

[Grand Master Falconer]

Jiff
Falconry is an art not a race
take as long as you like
best wishes
Rick

[Johnny]

Gmf thats one of the best sayings ive heard yet about falconry ?

[Grand Master Falconer]

Why .. thankyou Johnny, one does ones best

[Falconer]

personally i go for 7 - 10 days before picking the bird up, and i feed the night before and man the bird at a higher weight, the result is a bird that feeds on the glove at a higher weight and ultimately flies at a higher weight!
stupid question, but what is the dif between one that flies at say 3lbs and one that flies at say 2lbs ??

[Shaun Byrne]

Ego, lol!!

[Hawkmaster]

ONE pound of rudeness! lol

[Wightwings]

basically nothing mate, the manning etc should follow the same route if thats what you mean.

flying at a higher weight dont really work (although a few on here will be adamant other wise)............i know i tried it with two birds this year and they are both now down to a sharp weight.

[Jiff]

just a quick point to make on the manning thing,i realy dont think it starts or stops well not for me anyway (so far),just when you think you have a certain situation sorted the bird will fool you,take our yorki for instance,i spent a lot of time associating sky with the yorki as i know one foul move will see us both homeless :lol: , now i've fed sky and the yorki more or less together without a problem but as of late sky has taken a pasionate disslike to the yorki and i again have to be very carefull,so i would say start manning as soon as possible and dont slack off if like me the bird is in and arround the fammily home, :wink:

[MTR46]

just wondered when to pick up my new harris iam a first timer and want to try get it right.its with its paerents at the moment at 7 weeks old thanks any advice apreciated. about all topics of training.

[Goldie]

With HH there is no guarantee of getting a quiet bird but leave it untill at least 16 weeks or later

[Afshimo]

Hiya,

I prefered for afra, start manning strait away, so 7 hours into the first day after getting her - she's asleep on my fist and quite bidable, I still spent awhile just manning her before I got her jumping to the first, but I do try and get them stepping up early as possible. Makes picking them up alot easier!

Sykes on the other hand a psyco-manic, so leave him for a bit, then slowly start to handle him, he stil isnt perfect, but he's getting there everyday. (miss the poor sod lol!!) I agree with the previous post, watch the bird and then decide on a plan of action that is gona work with that particular bird, either way if you do it right, you'll have a trained bird!

ATB,

Hannah