Rats & Mice

[Darren]

I have read a few books about the sport now & they all comment on the food we feed the birds.
DOC some people remove the yoke sack, 1 book says this is to stop the birds feet & nare/cere going yellow.
this 1 book also says to gut rats & mice if feed to your bird but doesnt explain why. it also says rats & mice are high in protien & minerals the birds need, this food source comes top with quail.

What do you feed your birds & why.what do you know of the above?

cheers
Daz

[Jiff]

hi daz i'm only a novice myself but i'll try and get the ball rolling on this one for you,to start the D.O.C being available in large quantities cheaply is the reason they'r used so commonly,they don't provide everything required for a fit healthy bird,and so the diet must be supplimented either artificialy with a purpose made additive or naturaly by varying the food type,as you said rat and quail are excerlent food stuffs mice also but been on the small side realy are'nt practicle for bigger birds,so you see the bulk of the birds food can be obtained cheaply and supplimented occasionaly with the more expensive rat and quail to keep them fit and healthy.with the food issue comes a very important aspect of falconry and that is weight control,the bird won't hunt if it's weight isnt right.you can't starve the bird to reduce it's weight as it would'nt have sofficient energy to hunt effectivly,so in come the low protien foods,de-yolked D.O.C or as i'm going to use rabbit flesh supplimented with vita hawk,this keeps the birds internals working but slowly brings the weight down untill you get her to responsive weight. you'r richer foods realy come into theire own in times of need,maybe the birds been ill and needs building up or more commonly during the moult when the birds body is working that little bit harder,shedding and growing feathers this is a perticularly hard time for the bird and so it's fed the best of everything,as they moult through the summer months the weight control is no longer as important as most of us don't hunt then.so we can realy give them what ever they enjoy. as for gutting mice and rats i've seen it mentioned but never realy looked into the reasons i'm sure someone shortly will put us right on that one........best of luck mate

[Wightwings]

well put that man. I've never gutted my mice or rats and to be honest have never suffered any ill effects from them, thats the birds i mean jiff I can here your giggle bone creaking!
regarding quail i believe you need to be a bit careful about the ones you purchase. some places sell ex layers, and like ex laying chickens they are very rich in fat. not good for the bird. some people will also use shin beef for training purposes but i'm always wary about feeding foodstuffs that do not produce a cast i like to monitor the casts they are a good source of information to your birds health. I am not sure but I think this type of food can be used if your bird is recovering from sour crop. whatever you do fed you need to vary the diet but it must be balanced in relation to your birds activity.i.e. hunting,moulting breeding etc etc and don't over do the supplements.

[Sparrow Hawker]

Hi All,

I find the best way to bring the weight down is quickly and build it back up when you achieve a response; I think it's possible that if you bring the weight down to slowly it could lead to problems.

However whilst the bird is at flying weight I use a diet mainly consisting of rabbit and with quail or rat fed a couple of days a week. I try to vary the diet as much as possible. Whilst during the moult the diet consists mainly of Quail and rat and with the odd mouse.

As for gutting I like to remove the internal organs of Quail and Rats but leave the liver, heart and kidneys in as this provides essential nutrients, vitamins and minerals.

I make sure I remove the feet and wings of the quail before feeding the bird as there have been instances of birds having problems and getting the wing stuck in it’s crop, and this can lead to death. With Rats I like to remove the feet as well as the tail.

Good point there Wightwings you have to be very careful with supplements as you can easily overdose your birds.

All The Best,

Regards,

HH

[North East Harris Hawker]

in response to the original question, doc's are messy if not gutted and end up allover your birds head, the yolk is also high in cholesterol, so too much is not a good thing, with regards to rats and mice (lab rats and mice) by all means cut them in half to help your bird out, but whatever your bird doesent want it wont eat! that said, make a note of what it disregards typically then remove it... its less for you to pick up at the end of the day!

[Sparrow Hawker]

Echo what North East says, another reason but much less important than what was previously stated is that DOC's with yokes left intact make an awful mess on your falconry glove.

Regards,

HH

[North East Harris Hawker]

if your going to gut the rats, remember to peg your nose! they really hum!

[Sparrow Hawker]

Crikey Quail are easy to gut but Rats err they stink. They are tough as well.

Regards,

HH

[North East Harris Hawker]

some people never feed any guts, for these people i would reccomend a pinch of supplement to replace these trace elements 8)

[David & Carol Newby]

I feed most of my foods live. My birds do a better job of killing, and ripping apart their food faster than I ever could. It's the natural thing. These birds are wild birds. I do give a verity of foods and when I give lean beef I roll in suppliments. Dave use to remove the yoke sac when chicks were the staple but over the years we have learned chicks shouldn't be the staple diet. Rats and quail are perfect for any BOP. Good Hawking, Carol

[Bubo]

i used to degut rats but now kadabra does it on his own, he wont even eat them in mice. he pulls out the intestine and the livers but will eat every thing else. i always cut the feet and beak off my doc and take the yolk sac out. but when feeding a doc i put a dab of vits on it. I very rarely give chicks (about once a week) but he certainly enjoys a rabbit leg and quail. I gave him a rabbit head to play around with but he wouldnt have it and kept throwing it on the floor.
bubs
bubs

[Wightwings]

i feed the lot...fed a young young dog caught rabbit the other day as it was...the lot went, flesh, guts head the lot, fed a rat to the lad today, the lot went again even guts, tommorrow he gets a qual as it comes.......its natural and good for them, they eat what they want and leave the rest, if anything.

[Mr_Colin]

So am I to understand that DOC is not the normal food to give. I have spoken to lots of people and been told that they mostly give DOC, with Quail and Rat as a treat once a week.
Any comments as I want to feed my female HH a healthy diet.
Colin

[Coedhirion]

DOC is fine but you do have to give a higher protein food as well. One reason for only feeding doc with the yoke sack still in, once or twice a week is that it contains an anti vitamin (i think) & too much egg is bad for all animals & people. Other than the rabbit, the only other thing I gut is quail. But as above I take legs and wings off quail, tails & legs off rats, mainly for safety & they tend to get left any way. I also feed pheasant (not shot) which is about the same value as quail & comes free curtesy of my bird :lol:

[Sparrow Hawker]

I think the best way is to feed a varied mixed diet, they all have different nutrional values, some better than others.

For instance Quail is very low in Vitamin E where as Chicks are high in Vitamin E.

Regards,

HH

[Wightwings]

well said sean.....since carol stopped fyling her lmhh early march he has had. pheasant, quail (whole), rat (whole), mice, rabbit (one whole baby too) vole (curtesy of the cat), nd DOCs. the only thing he has not had that flys are squeeks or chirps is pegion, We didthe N Forbes first aid course a few yrs ago and since then Carol has a thing about fronce :roll: :wink:

[RabbitHawker]

DOC are a cheap subsistence food, your bird will live on it, but if you want it to give you 100%, feed a better diet. My cast of Harris's is fed on wild food olny, mainly rabbit, but also duck, pheasant, partridge, and steel shot pigeon. Through the moult they are fed more bird and less rabbit as it is higher protein, and the birds moult faster with better quality feathers. If you are going to use DOC for convenience, use rat or quail twicw a week to increase the quality.

[Mr_Colin]

I do give quail or Rat once a week whole and on another day I will give half. Do you cut up quail or rabbit in small portions to take in your bag when you go flying or is it mainly DOC?

Colin

[Bubo]

i think even with a good varied diet some vits and nutrients are still lacking or not being received in adequate quantities so once a week i just add a dab of vits.
bubo

[Wightwings]

:D :wink:

[Jastreb]

Listen to this:
My female gos is in aviary and I feed her with mixed diet DOCs, quails, rats, pigeons.
But, when I give her DOCs one day, and skinned quail another day, she never likes quails so much as she likes DOCs. That's not happen when she is on flying weight.
WHY?

[Varmint]

Nothing unusual about that Jastreb, i have some birds who pref DOC to anything else.

There has been another post on this topic but one of the American Uni's did a study on breeding kestrels feeding one half of the project pairs and young on natural diet and the other half only on DOC.

Guess which ones were bigger, healthier and over all in better condition?

There is nothing wrong with DOC's so long as BUBO says you suppliment them regularly with additives and try to offer both low and high protein alternatives regularly.

[Mary Quite Contrary]

what about the bovine man

[Jastreb]

Thanks to Varmint!