Finnish Female Gos (or any gos) on Squirrels?

[JHausman]

Alright! I have been looking and looking, searching and searching. Are there any threads on hunting squirrels with a Gos? I am considering a Female Finnish Gos next year. We have squirrels here... what else do we have you ask? Well we have squirrels and also some... um... squirrels. We typically fly RT's on squirrel but I thought a decent sized (1020g+) female Finn would be pretty rockin' on squirrels. I just want to hear if anyone is doing this? I don't need the "Dude, you shouldn't hunt squirrels period" argument. We hunt what we have. My RT caught the only Rabbit I have seen while hunting. Within hours I had buddies calling me telling me they'd heard I had caught a rabbit!!! And I have never seen a quail, pheasant or anything resembling a game bird in the wild in this area.

So... squirrels anyone? ;) ( I would also be smacking Crows and Ducks when I can find them and when I go out West to hunt in big country)

Thanks for any input you might give... or direct me to the threads I cannot find!

Jason

[BirdBreeder]

Hen redtail, save your money

[JHausman]

Hen redtail, save your money

Ha! :lol: Probably "Check, and Mate". Yes, that is the simple wisdom of it isn't it!? AAARGH!

Jason

[BirdBreeder]

Redtails do sooo nicely on squirrels, I wouldnt fly anything else if squirrels were my target.

[JHausman]

Redtails do sooo nicely on squirrels, I wouldnt fly anything else if squirrels were my target.

I guess my desire to try a Finn Gos is more directed at what ELSE I could hunt with it along with the squirrel. I could go out to the coast and bust ducks, go on my yearly Indiana Trip and take Game Birds and Rabbits. I could take Crows etc. Trips out West would be a blast!!! It would be nice to have one bird that can take it all. I would guess 70-80% of my hunting would be Squirrel. It's that other 25% or so that is so tempting! Plus... seeing a gos go straight up the side of a tree after a rat would not suck either! :supz: But, that said, I DO love me some RT's!!!

Just looking for someone who has flown Gos' on tree rats. We shall see. ;)

J.

[GregMik]

It is a simple answer....Big female euro gos $4000 Big female RT....Trapped for free....

Nothing else needs to be said.....


Greg

[Yeoman]

Alright! I have been looking and looking, searching and searching. Are there any threads on hunting squirrels with a Gos? I am considering a Female Finnish Gos next year. We have squirrels here... what else do we have you ask? Well we have squirrels and also some... um... squirrels. We typically fly RT's on squirrel but I thought a decent sized (1020g+) female Finn would be pretty rockin' on squirrels. I just want to hear if anyone is doing this? I don't need the "Dude, you shouldn't hunt squirrels period" argument. We hunt what we have. My RT caught the only Rabbit I have seen while hunting. Within hours I had buddies calling me telling me they'd heard I had caught a rabbit!!! And I have never seen a quail, pheasant or anything resembling a game bird in the wild in this area.

So... squirrels anyone? ;) ( I would also be smacking Crows and Ducks when I can find them and when I go out West to hunt in big country)

Thanks for any input you might give... or direct me to the threads I cannot find!

Jason

i wouldnt fly a gos at a squirrel if it was the last prey item on this earth
Kev

[Brit-Gos]

I have had my bird (female Gos) catch quite a few squirrels, over the years, but only by accident after she has had a long flight at pheasant and missed, when I have found her with the telem she has been chasing squirrels.
They are absolutely brilliant close up action flights and get your bird fit in no time, but you are running the risk of injury and crippling the bird.
Fortunately my bird has now got the knack of holding them by the head & back, but she has had bites to her feet which luckily cleaned up ok and where treated with antiseptic.
I do try to trap most of the squirrels through the summer so the temptation during the flying season is limited.
Wild goses catch loads of squirrels and do so very well but a falconer, who intentionally fly’s them, is always running the risk with a valuble bird.

[SparsTheOne]

theres only one bird for squirrels and thats a redtail,either sex,end of story.

jase.

[Sean D]

I have had my bird (female Gos) catch quite a few squirrels, over the years, but only by accident after she has had a long flight at pheasant and missed, when I have found her with the telem she has been chasing squirrels.
They are absolutely brilliant close up action flights and get your bird fit in no time, but you are running the risk of injury and crippling the bird.
Fortunately my bird has now got the knack of holding them by the head & back, but she has had bites to her feet which luckily cleaned up ok and where treated with antiseptic.
I do try to trap most of the squirrels through the summer so the temptation during the flying season is limited.
Wild goses catch loads of squirrels and do so very well but a falconer, who intentionally fly’s them, is always running the risk with a valuble bird.

just been looking on ebay, squirrell chaps £12.50

[Ben C]

just been looking on ebay, squirrell chaps £12.50

Gos......1200, is it worth it...........................:supz:

[JHausman]

Squirrel Chaps are not a problem. I use them withsome birds. Depends on the bird in question if they are useful or not. Sometimes they screw with a good footing bird. As for the money issue. I really don't care. The only thing I care about is the bird. I have only heard from one falconer so far who has hawked squirrels with his Gos (Brit-Gos) and he has had little problems and as I suspected has a bird with superior footing who can handle the squirrels. Anyone else doing this?

I know, I know - "not a squirrel if it was the last prey on earth". We'll, all I can say is... really imagine if it was. I am begging you guys not to turn this into an anti-Squirrel Hawking/Car Hawking/Ferreting debate. These things can go down hill so fast.

Thanks for your thoughts gentlemen - I appreciate them.

Jason

[Jamaicensis]

How are legislations in your country regarding trapping American Goshawks?

[CanadaManada]

In Sweden, the Gos' main prey is the Red Squirrel. Your treerats would be a good deal bigger and meaner than that, but there is NO reason not to fly a Gos at squirrel, if that is what you are inclined to do.
If there was a book out there by someone who flew Gos at treerats, there would be alot more "yeah, me too! Good laugh, that!" and less "Oh, heavens me, not my precious Goshawk."
Just because guys aren't doing it, doesn't make it not worth the effort to try.
If she loses a talon, she aint dead.
I would think a Gos would be inclined to eat the squirrel up the tree, when and if it could catch one up there.

Justin

[SquirrelHawkin]

I'm in the same boat as you,mostly squirrels here.I think about the same thing.Get the biggest gos I could find and try it on squirrels.There was an article in a recent copy of the New York state journal.The guy flys a N.A.female on squirrels.He said the flights were awesome,alot of straight up and down the sides of the trees.I know I have a copy of it around here somewhere,if I find it you can pm me your address and I'll send it to ya.

[HorseBox]

I have had great sport with gos on squirrel and she was on the small side but she could nail em they definitely were her favorite

[Gaz]

theres only one bird for squirrels and thats a redtail,either sex,end of story.

jase.

:supz:

It is a simple answer....Big female euro gos $4000 Big female RT....Trapped for free....

..

Nothing else needs to be said.....


Greg

I f i could trap and fly a BIG hen red..Gos wouldnt get a look in...:-D



(Greg,few more hours dude..and LOOK OUT..mate:supz::supz:)

[Gaz]

In Sweden, the Gos' main prey is the Red Squirrel. Your treerats would be a good deal bigger and meaner than that, but there is NO reason not to fly a Gos at squirrel, if that is what you are inclined to do.
If there was a book out there by someone who flew Gos at treerats, there would be alot more "yeah, me too! Good laugh, that!" and less "Oh, heavens me, not my precious Goshawk."
Just because guys aren't doing it, doesn't make it not worth the effort to try.
If she loses a talon, she aint dead.
I would think a Gos would be inclined to eat the squirrel up the tree, when and if it could catch one up there.

Justin

You wanna try paying our vets bills mate....:twisted:..

[JHausman]

I have had great sport with gos on squirrel and she was on the small side but she could nail em they definitely were her favorite

Hey Phil,

What was her hunting weight?

Thanks!

Jason

[JHausman]

I'm in the same boat as you,mostly squirrels here.I think about the same thing.Get the biggest gos I could find and try it on squirrels.There was an article in a recent copy of the New York state journal.The guy flys a N.A.female on squirrels.He said the flights were awesome,alot of straight up and down the sides of the trees.I know I have a copy of it around here somewhere,if I find it you can pm me your address and I'll send it to ya.

Thanks SquirrelHawkin - I will PM you my address for sure!

J.

[JHausman]

How are legislations in your country regarding trapping American Goshawks?

I could get a non-resident permit to trap one up North. I have known guys to do that. One of which spent three weeks and thousands of dollars and got not one Gos. Trapped Gyr, Goldens, Peregrines and everything else. He is now on a list for a Chamber Raised Female Finn. Besides, the NA Gos is on the insane side & significantly smaller that the Euro's.

J.

[HorseBox]

Hey Phil,

What was her hunting weight?

Thanks!

JasonShe hunted around 21b also had a male hunted at 1/15 he nailed em no bother

[SquirrelHawkin]

Thanks SquirrelHawkin - I will PM you my address for sure!

J.

I found it.I'll copy the article and send it out as soon as i get your address.

[Tim Laycock]

i wouldnt fly a gos at a squirrel if it was the last prey item on this earth
Kev

Spot on Kev!

A proper Goshawker :supz:

[Tim Laycock]

This is what invariably happens when a finnish female gets her feet to a squirrel.

The feet are too large, the squirrel can turn in the hawks grasp and bite.

A goshawks feet are more geared to piercing than crushing quarry, She cannot drive her
talons in effectively if her feet have gone right around the quarry
A red tails foot is set to overcome this by also being geared to crush at the same time.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b348/Accipitrine/meet014.jpg

[NCFalconer]

I know, I know - "not a squirrel if it was the last prey on earth". We'll, all I can say is... really imagine if it was. I am begging you guys not to turn this into an anti-Squirrel Hawking/Car Hawking/Ferreting debate. These things can go down hill so fast.

Thanks for your thoughts gentlemen - I appreciate them.

Jason[/QUOTE]

IMHO: keep your HH AND get a nice little tiercel aplomado to fly on dove and quail and just forget the blasted treerats. Sophie will need a "significant other" soon enough.

D

[JHausman]

I know, I know - "not a squirrel if it was the last prey on earth". We'll, all I can say is... really imagine if it was. I am begging you guys not to turn this into an anti-Squirrel Hawking/Car Hawking/Ferreting debate. These things can go down hill so fast.

Thanks for your thoughts gentlemen - I appreciate them.

Jason

IMHO: keep your HH AND get a nice little tiercel aplomado to fly on dove and quail and just forget the blasted treerats. Sophie will need a "significant other" soon enough.

D[/QUOTE]

Oh... you are ref: all the wild game you have gotten your Aplo in front of?! We can share the one sparrow slip a week. I'll take the first week you take the second! Our Aplos will just love us for it! :supz:

[JHausman]

Alright. I have found a solution. I am building a kestrel trap. I am going to get a good sized Tiercel AK and train him to car hawk squirrels (and Geese).

J.

[CanadaManada]

Tim,
This makes zero sense to me, when Swedish Gohawks prey primarily on Red Squirrel, which are smaller, but no more willing to die easily than a big Grey Squirrel. How is it that, in nature, these big feet manage to hold and dispose of an animal quite a bit smaller than the ones you said it\'s feet are too big to effectively hold? Both types would bite in defense. Swedish Goshawks obviously do fine with Red Squirrel, and I can tell you that in Newfoundland, our N/A Gos have the exact same prey base of Red Squirrels and they do fine as well.
It just doesn\'t add up to me. Any hawk will suffer a bite from a rat or treerat, if it takes enough.

Perhaps Swedish Goshawks and their propensity towards squirrels doesn\'t fit the legend of the Goshawk as a bird secialist.
Justin

This is what invariably happens when a finnish female gets her feet to a squirrel.

The feet are too large, the squirrel can turn in the hawks grasp and bite.

A goshawks feet are more geared to piercing than crushing quarry, She cannot drive her
talons in effectively if her feet have gone right around the quarry
A red tails foot is set to overcome this by also being geared to crush at the same time.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b348/Accipitrine/meet014.jpg

[Yeoman]

Spot on Kev!

A proper Goshawker :supz:

Takes one to no one brother:yawinkle:
ATB Kev

[SparsTheOne]

If you watch any squirrel hawking video/dvd,you will see that the redtail is the tool for the job,
If the head bind isnt achvied in the first strike,redtails will hit there quarry out of the tree and follow it to the ground in a head long stoop,the reason for this tactic is the the bird knows that its prey is still trying to evade capture even though its falling out of the tree,and because this is still in the squirrels mind it will try and turn its body so its feet are face down ready to land and run like hell.
know ask yourself which part of the squirrel the redtail is now focused on,YOU GOT IT the back of the neck and head,so when this tactic is employed and a bind take place the redtail will drive the squirrel into the ground,no bite,AND WE HAVE ONE DEAD SQUIRREL.

Goshawks like to grab there ground quarry by the rear then adjust there footing to the head to get there quarry under control,this few seconds of adjustment is where the gos will get injured.

As for flying prey,the bind from underneath is preferred sliding there long slinder toes through the feather to reach and pearce the birds flesh.


jase.

[Pete J.]

If you watch any squirrel hawking video/dvd,you will see that the redtail is the tool for the job,
If the head bind isnt achvied in the first strike,redtails will hit there quarry out of the tree and follow it to the ground in a head long stoop,the reason for this tactic is the the bird knows that its prey is still trying to evade capture even though its falling out of the tree,and because this is still in the squirrels mind it will try and turn its body so its feet are face down ready to land and run like hell.
know ask yourself which part of the squirrel the redtail is now focused on,YOU GOT IT the back of the neck and head,so when this tactic is employed and a bind take place the redtail will drive the squirrel into the ground,no bite,AND WE HAVE ONE DEAD SQUIRREL.

Goshawks like to grab there ground quarry by the rear then adjust there footing to the head to get there quarry under control,this few seconds of adjustment is where the gos will get injured.

As for flying prey,the bind from underneath is preferred sliding there long slinder toes through the feather to reach and pearce the birds flesh.


jase.

My American Gos female would do kind of the same thing. She would either just rip them off the tree binding to them or get under them and force them up the tree til they ran out of room and had to jump and then she'd bind to them. But, after the bind they would often ball up (sometimes being 30 ft or more in the air) and the gos would drop them and roll into a stoop right behind them. As soon as they hit the ground (feet under them as Jase said) she would bind to their head and upper chest. Having said this though, it still scared the hell out of me to go over and see her halux inside and across the squirrels back of the mouth, with the incisors just chatting away like a sewing machine mere millimeters from her back toe! I was afraid to even help under those conditions for fear of making her re-adjust which might move that halux just enough to get it severed. Not my idea of a good time, although the flights themselves were wonderful and complex. But I never hunted squirrels deliberately with her. She just happened to get into hunting them as a sideline to rabbit hunting in woodlots. She would often check squirrel nests by flying up to one and then footing them to see if a squirrel would come out (which often they did).
So, because of where you live and the availability of lots of squirrels...I'd pass on the gos. It's only a matter of time before tragedy strikes. And I doubt you could keep her away from them even if you fly areas that are more open. Sooner or later she will go to the nearest woods and then she'll get into them instinctively.
Pete J.

[JHausman]

Takes one to no one brother:yawinkle:
ATB Kev

Awwww... I'm getting all warm and fuzzy inside! :heart:

[JHausman]

My American Gos female would do kind of the same thing. She would either just rip them off the tree binding to them or get under them and force them up the tree til they ran out of room and had to jump and then she'd bind to them. But, after the bind they would often ball up (sometimes being 30 ft or more in the air) and the gos would drop them and roll into a stoop right behind them. As soon as they hit the ground (feet under them as Jase said) she would bind to their head and upper chest. Having said this though, it still scared the hell out of me to go over and see her halux inside and across the squirrels back of the mouth, with the incisors just chatting away like a sewing machine mere millimeters from her back toe! I was afraid to even help under those conditions for fear of making her re-adjust which might move that halux just enough to get it severed. Not my idea of a good time, although the flights themselves were wonderful and complex. But I never hunted squirrels deliberately with her. She just happened to get into hunting them as a sideline to rabbit hunting in woodlots. She would often check squirrel nests by flying up to one and then footing them to see if a squirrel would come out (which often they did).
So, because of where you live and the availability of lots of squirrels...I'd pass on the gos. It's only a matter of time before tragedy strikes. And I doubt you could keep her away from them even if you fly areas that are more open. Sooner or later she will go to the nearest woods and then she'll get into them instinctively.
Pete J.

Thanks Pete,

That strikes o something here. WE hve very small open areas... say 30-40 acres would be a big ope space to us. They are always surrounded by woods nd I hve NEVER seen a rabbit, quail or anything resembling a Gos Quarry in them. The diehard Gos guys out there need to realize I am asking this question because I woud KILL to be in the situation they are in. A gos on the fist with rabbits, hares, phesant etc galore! I envy you guys. I'd just love to fly a gos. There is obviously the probability that I will never get the chance to.

Cheers.

Jason

[Falconry Equipment International]

Ok Jason (& other thread contributors) please be aware that I have just read your post, not the whole thread. IMHO I would suggest that you either go for a Male Finnish or smaller( German/ Hungarian etc) female as both of these would be more agile through the trees. Having said that my 1st Gos 35 years ago was a Haggard German( yes legal, brought in under licence) Female and within about two months on her very 1st flight at a squirrel was bitten about 14 times on her foot/leg in the time it took her to re-foot the squirrel. In those days vets did not have acces to drugs like they do now and it took nearly 18 months for the leg to heel properly. don't know what you want to make of it just though this may help.

[page whatley]

Hi, my small n.a. gos will take squirrels. she flies at 780g. small isn't she. I would prefer bunnies but here in south alabama there rare. (tomany predators) bites are a risk. invest in some squirrel chaps by gary brewer.He would tell you to get a female rt. I don't believe a squirrel is a lesser prey animal. A gos can get crippled by a jack or a cock ringneck. So do what you must but take all the care you can. I've watched a bigger gos (roy dewitts) take three in about an hour. She was far an away the best I've seen. Good luck. Page

[page whatley]

Hi, one other point a couple of the american breeders sale pretty big northerns. it may save you a couple of grand. american birds may have move res. to bite infect. I'm not sure but it seems to make sense. Page

[Kevin Massey]

She hunted around 21b also had a male hunted at 1/15 he nailed em no bother


What style of hunting tree rats? casting into tree and let them do the rest?

[page whatley]

Yes same squirrel style, but start slow. A gos seems to set there awhlie longer than a rt, hh. Page

[Kevin Massey]

Yes same squirrel style, but start slow. A gos seems to set there awhlie longer than a rt, hh. Page

On that why not just use the rt or hh...why a speed freek:?:

[Yeoman]

Awwww... I'm getting all warm and fuzzy inside! :heart:

Not half as warm as your hawks toes will be when the tree rat chomps down ,only speaking out of first hand experiance
Kev

[Tim Laycock]

Tim,
This makes zero sense to me, when Swedish Gohawks prey primarily on Red Squirrel, which are smaller, but no more willing to die easily than a big Grey Squirrel. How is it that, in nature, these big feet manage to hold and dispose of an animal quite a bit smaller than the ones you said it\'s feet are too big to effectively hold? Both types would bite in defense. Swedish Goshawks obviously do fine with Red Squirrel, and I can tell you that in Newfoundland, our N/A Gos have the exact same prey base of Red Squirrels and they do fine as well.
It just doesn\'t add up to me. Any hawk will suffer a bite from a rat or treerat, if it takes enough.

Perhaps Swedish Goshawks and their propensity towards squirrels doesn\'t fit the legend of the Goshawk as a bird secialist.
Justin

Justin
Wether it makes sense or not just compare the foot of a redtail and a goshawk.
The conclusion of this comparrison should be plainly obvious.
We are commenting on this with regard to falconry, we are not mulling over wild quarry statistics.

Im quite sure many wild goshawks learn not to get bitten and therfore predate squirrels most successfully but these birds are not captive raptors.
I would imagine a wild goshawk takes more squirrels in its brown year than a trained goshawk would take in 20 intermews.

They can learn to take them successfully, no doubt about this but a man who looses a foot can walk, it does not mean this is ideal :lol:

[Falconry Equipment International]

Justin
I would imagine a wild goshawk takes more squirrels in its brown year than a trained goshawk would take in 20 intermews.

Tim obviously my german haggard (see my previous post) hadnt:roll: and she came from Schwarzwald ~ the Black Forest , clearly at least a 2nd/3rd time intermewed hawk( bars were pretty straight and close)

[Ben C]

Tim: Also its very likely the ones that fail to NOT get bitten survive. I bet plenty of em die in the wild because of hunting squirrel.

[Falconry Equipment International]

Very true ben when I was in Calgary in 2005 The president of the alberta falconers assoc took me down to an eirie to see some young praries, unfortunately they ahd already left about 3-4 days before , but nevertheless the Adult female was pretty unhappy at our intrusion. he took some excellent pics and in those you can see that she had been badly bitten by Gophers( groud squirrells in effect. sorry thay are not Gossses, but just thought having some graphic pics may help:yawinkle:
http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o291/falconersemporium/prairiefeet1lg-2.jpg
http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o291/falconersemporium/ptairiefeet2enlarged.jpg

[JHausman]

Just out of curiosity. How many of you guys have intentionally hunted tree squirrels (like me and everyone I hunt with on the East Coast - US) for several seasons with ANY raptor (besides you NC Falconer). Also, if so... (or not), how big are the squirrels in your area? Our Gray Squirrels range from 375-550g as a comparison.

Thanks to everyone for all your input.

Cheers,

Jason

[HorseBox]

What style of hunting tree rats? casting into tree and let them do the rest?Not particularly out for them in particular but if there were any about you did not need to show them they saw them before i did by the way i flew them is of fist and following on round home if away from home of fist and i fly for my own pleasure and in my own way and enjoy it and am quite happy to fly any quarry the birds are capable of taking not being snotty Kevin just explaining my own view Phil

[HorseBox]

Tim,
This makes zero sense to me, when Swedish Gohawks prey primarily on Red Squirrel, which are smaller, but no more willing to die easily than a big Grey Squirrel. How is it that, in nature, these big feet manage to hold and dispose of an animal quite a bit smaller than the ones you said it\'s feet are too big to effectively hold? Both types would bite in defense. Swedish Goshawks obviously do fine with Red Squirrel, and I can tell you that in Newfoundland, our N/A Gos have the exact same prey base of Red Squirrels and they do fine as well.
It just doesn\'t add up to me. Any hawk will suffer a bite from a rat or treerat, if it takes enough.

Perhaps Swedish Goshawks and their propensity towards squirrels doesn\'t fit the legend of the Goshawk as a bird secialist.
JustinNow dont go upsetting all the british goshawkers by telling them there birds dont only live on hard flown pheasant in the wild they will be devastated to find out that the main stay of there wild diet is o no squirrel and Finnish gos at that o no is it really possible that this could be true they actually take and whats more eat squirrel as a personal choices but how do they suvive with no tose and may be no feet sorry just could not resist

[SparsTheOne]

Now dont go upsetting all the british goshawkers by telling them there birds dont only live on hard flown pheasant in the wild they will be devastated to find out that the main stay of there wild diet is o no squirrel and Finnish gos at that o no is it really possible that this could be true they actually take and whats more eat squirrel as a personal choices but how do they suvive with no tose and may be no feet sorry just could not resist

nobody is saying that they dont take them in the wild,were just saying after you have just forked out 2k for your finnish female gos do you really want the risk her not squirrel,cus i,m not bloody going to know matter how good the slip is.

Use a redtail there better at it lol.


jase.

[Pete J.]

Thanks Pete,

That strikes o something here. WE hve very small open areas... say 30-40 acres would be a big ope space to us. They are always surrounded by woods nd I hve NEVER seen a rabbit, quail or anything resembling a Gos Quarry in them. The diehard Gos guys out there need to realize I am asking this question because I woud KILL to be in the situation they are in. A gos on the fist with rabbits, hares, phesant etc galore! I envy you guys. I'd just love to fly a gos. There is obviously the probability that I will never get the chance to.

Cheers.

Jason

Well, this is the land of opportunity you know. I'm sure there are jobs in the west that you could fill and be able to less limited by your habitat for falconry. I think the philosophy of many falconers is that they work to live rather than live to work. Life is short and there are already so many limitations to the practice of falconry as it is. I'm not sure what I'd fly in the southeast if I couldn't fly an RT (or wanted to fly something else)? Likely a Cooper's I suppose or a Shin. Alot of fun can be had with those two and you can get an RT for the squirrels if you absolutely HAVE to fly squirrels. Personally though...I would focus on moving west, there are so many more opportunities to expand your falconry horizon.
Pete J.

[HorseBox]

nobody is saying that they dont take them in the wild,were just saying after you have just forked out 2k for your finnish female gos do you really want the risk her not squirrel,cus i,m not bloody going to know matter how good the slip is.

Use a redtail there better at it lol.


jase.Hedges fences there's plenty of risk chose what bird you fly and at what prey if you make an informed decision then you accept the risk but it is up to the individual and they should not be harangued for there choice of prey or bird 200 or 2k all the same risk to the bird and dont tell me its alright cos its a R/T they still get bitten and personally i like the dynamic of the gos so fly what ever you want with what ever you want as long as you are prepared to accept the risk freedom of choice is what its all about jase look at the spurs on a cock pheasant or the damage a rabbit or hare could do with its back legs and feet i have never had a gos hurt by squirrel or hare or bunny or any thing else but had a young falcon badly hurt her wing whilst on a crow as it made trees so there you go you would have thought it the other way round ie hawk hurt by squirrel or hare

[JHausman]

50 oz female gos - good luck in finding her, hawking squirrels hardly needs the speed of an accipiter. Waste of a gos.

http://www.aerial-pursuit.com/finnish.htm

[Onyx25]

Could you not release some pheasants?

[Ben C]

http://www.aerial-pursuit.com/finnish.htm

Crazy...........

[FredrickFogg]

Jason,

Don't tell anyone, but there are falconers all across the U.S. that hunt squirrels with goshawks! Most just won't admit it! Flying a gos on squirrels is no different than flying a harris on squirrels. They have a greater risk of injury than a red-tail due to foot size, but every bird has a risk. I personally wouldn't fly anything smaller than a 36 oz Harris on squirrels and I imagine a large gos would do the trick. But here in NC, we do have more game than squirrels. I found slips for my coops every single day at starlings and crows, she took 217 head in 3 months. And if you look around, we seem to have more and more crows, so a tiercel gos would be great for crow hawking. Also, something like a pere/saker on crows would be great. And if you can find something to fly on doves, you would have unlimited slips, they are everywhere. But before trying all these other birds, if I were you, I would fly a coops. You will learn more about what you don't know from flying a coops here in NC than you can imagine. From my experience, if you can fly a coops and catch stuff, you can fly just about anything! LOL

Fred

[JHausman]

Jason,

Don't tell anyone, but there are falconers all across the U.S. that hunt squirrels with goshawks! Most just won't admit it! Flying a gos on squirrels is no different than flying a harris on squirrels. They have a greater risk of injury than a red-tail due to foot size, but every bird has a risk. I personally wouldn't fly anything smaller than a 36 oz Harris on squirrels and I imagine a large gos would do the trick. But here in NC, we do have more game than squirrels. I found slips for my coops every single day at starlings and crows, she took 217 head in 3 months. And if you look around, we seem to have more and more crows, so a tiercel gos would be great for crow hawking. Also, something like a pere/saker on crows would be great. And if you can find something to fly on doves, you would have unlimited slips, they are everywhere. But before trying all these other birds, if I were you, I would fly a coops. You will learn more about what you don't know from flying a coops here in NC than you can imagine. From my experience, if you can fly a coops and catch stuff, you can fly just about anything! LOL

Fred

Car hawking. Correct?

[JHausman]

Could you not release some pheasants?

Meaning... "Baggies"?

[SparsTheOne]

Meaning... "Baggies"?

no he doesnt mean baggys,he means let them out on the land to fend for themselfs then hunt them as you come across them on day to day hunting trips.


jase.

[JHausman]

no he doesnt mean baggys,he means let them out on the land to fend for themselfs then hunt them as you come across them on day to day hunting trips.


jase.

Yeah,

We've tried that. They are dead within' days. Hunting them before that is hunting 'baggies' no matter how you cut it. A captive bred bird tossed out into a unfamiliar field and hunted the next day is a baggy.

But an idea nonetheless.

Cheers,

Jason

[FredrickFogg]

Car hawking. Correct?

No, not all her catches were car hawking, I flew her off the fist at sparrows the first year and she caught 23, and only 2 were car hawking. The second season she caught sparrows and starlings off the fist up at this dairy farm I am flying the merlin at. But the majority of her catches were car hawking! I just can find more slips that way than walking fields.

Fred

[Conni L.]

just have a look :

northern goshawks (http://www.hawkandhound.com/english/index.html)

[Onyx25]

Yeah,

We've tried that. They are dead within' days. Hunting them before that is hunting 'baggies' no matter how you cut it. A captive bred bird tossed out into a unfamiliar field and hunted the next day is a baggy.

But an idea nonetheless.

Cheers,

Jason

Why are they dieing? Are you feeding them and releasing them properly? Read up on gamekeeping a bit and you will have some sport for a goss the following season. They fly like wild birds if done right and not hunted too young.

[JHausman]

Why are they dieing? Are you feeding them and releasing them properly? Read up on gamekeeping a bit and you will have some sport for a goss the following season. They fly like wild birds if done right and not hunted too young.

30 years ago there was quail (and rabbit) galore here. We have two serious problems that have changed all that. The farmers are using every inch of their fields and have removed all the ruff areas that used to line the fields around the tree line. So... no more rabbit or quail habitat. Also, we have a serious ferel cat problem.

We can put quail out and within days the coopers hawks and cats have killed them all. The only way to do it properly is with call back pens and daily feeding and watering. I live in the downtown of a 1million plus city. We have to drive 45-1hour to get to these fields. Even if I could get permision to set all this up. I could not make the daily drives to keep it up.

It is a valid question. But there is a reason why game birds don't survive here naturally anymore. Unfortunately, we are to blame.

Thanks!

Jason

[HorseBox]

30 years ago there was quail (and rabbit) galore here. We have two serious problems that have changed all that. The farmers are using every inch of their fields and have removed all the ruff areas that used to line the fields around the tree line. So... no more rabbit or quail habitat. Also, we have a serious ferel cat problem.

We can put quail out and within days the coopers hawks and cats have killed them all. The only way to do it properly is with call back pens and daily feeding and watering. I live in the downtown of a 1million plus city. We have to drive 45-1hour to get to these fields. Even if I could get permision to set all this up. I could not make the daily drives to keep it up.

It is a valid question. But there is a reason why game birds don't survive here naturally anymore. Unfortunately, we are to blame.

Thanks!

JasonMY mate has successfully taken Scottish wild cat with a moderately sized HH female so you could probably have good sport with a big female R/T ON FEREL CAT or may be a cast of HH that may take care of the cat and the coopers problem i have yet to see a HH that will stand any other type of raptor just a thought

[Andrew Connor]

i wouldnt fly a gos at a squirrel if it was the last prey item on this earth
Kev


I know this is what a lot of men with gosses think but why not? if the birds a good footer and goes for the head and back let it kill any quarry in its size and range personally i wont hunt my harris at squirrels but i might have a couple of slips at them once hes up and running slamming rabbits nicley, then i would concider having a blast

[Onyx25]

I know this is what a lot of men with gosses think but why not? if the birds a good footer and goes for the head and back let it kill any quarry in its size and range personally i wont hunt my harris at squirrels but i might have a couple of slips at them once hes up and running slamming rabbits nicley, then i would concider having a blast

You will learn. I have caught loads of squirrel with harris' following on and they also get bitten alot. I personally wouldn't point my goss at one on purpose or Harris' for that matter.

[Onyx25]

30 years ago there was quail (and rabbit) galore here. We have two serious problems that have changed all that. The farmers are using every inch of their fields and have removed all the ruff areas that used to line the fields around the tree line. So... no more rabbit or quail habitat. Also, we have a serious ferel cat problem.

We can put quail out and within days the coopers hawks and cats have killed them all. The only way to do it properly is with call back pens and daily feeding and watering. I live in the downtown of a 1million plus city. We have to drive 45-1hour to get to these fields. Even if I could get permision to set all this up. I could not make the daily drives to keep it up.

It is a valid question. But there is a reason why game birds don't survive here naturally anymore. Unfortunately, we are to blame.

Thanks!

Jason
Club together and pay someone to help, control the cats with a rifle, put in some game cover (pay the farmer a bit if you have to) use the woodland as pheasants love it anyway. There's not alot you can do about the coops early on but I doubt they will take a 3/4 grown poult! Calling birds back to pens for food is standard here on shoots for younger birds. If your adament about hunting a goss at squirel that is your choice but put in some effort and you can fly pheasant, I know which I would do :yawinkle: Also the advantage of a couple of days shooting if you do it well :lol:

[Tim Laycock]

I know this is what a lot of men with gosses think but why not? if the birds a good footer and goes for the head and back let it kill any quarry in its size and range personally i wont hunt my harris at squirrels but i might have a couple of slips at them once hes up and running slamming rabbits nicley, then i would concider having a blast
Read the thread :roll::roll::roll::roll:

[Andrew Connor]

Read the thread :roll::roll::roll::roll:

Tim i have

[Tim Laycock]

Tim i have
Then you have read plenty of reasons "why not" unless it was selective reading :lol: :yawinkle:

[Northern Austringer]

Goshawks are tha most deadley of hawks .I would never use any other bird ..I think u would do best wit a male fin gos. if ur mostly hawkin little Bushy tails.a male would be more effective in dense cover.and less likley not injore it self
Northern ausrtinger :supz:

[Andrew Connor]

Why not just get a Big Female Harris, Will do well on the squirrels and if asked to when you go to the west or whatever you said could turn onto the ducks and rabbits, best option in my opinion.

[Zingy]

Hey Jason,

I've hunted them intentionally when prey is low. I don't see what's wrong with hunting quarry that the bird would hunt in the wild. Some studies of birds in the Northeast, show that 21% of the nesting bird's diet were grey squirrel. That being said, I haven't hunted many and avoid them because I am forunate enough to find other quarry. The flights are amazing though!

http://www.falconryforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=39688&highlight=zaina

PS-She's a NA female, flies between 910-930 ...is far from psycho...oh and it took 4 years to find her but the mom didn't charge me a thing... :)

Phil

[Judd Casper]

Alright! I have been looking and looking, searching and searching. Are there any threads on hunting squirrels with a Gos? I am considering a Female Finnish Gos next year. We have squirrels here... what else do we have you ask? Well we have squirrels and also some... um... squirrels. We typically fly RT's on squirrel but I thought a decent sized (1020g+) female Finn would be pretty rockin' on squirrels. I just want to hear if anyone is doing this? I don't need the "Dude, you shouldn't hunt squirrels period" argument. We hunt what we have. My RT caught the only Rabbit I have seen while hunting. Within hours I had buddies calling me telling me they'd heard I had caught a rabbit!!! And I have never seen a quail, pheasant or anything resembling a game bird in the wild in this area.

So... squirrels anyone? ;) ( I would also be smacking Crows and Ducks when I can find them and when I go out West to hunt in big country)

Thanks for any input you might give... or direct me to the threads I cannot find!

JasonHi Jason I have seen red tails and harris hawks hunt squirrels and yes they do catch them,but not with the same style as the gos.The gos can go vertical to the top of the tallest tree in a speed the other two hawks could only dream about.The flights are fast and frantic and unlike with the other two types of hawk non stop, the flight ends in a kill or with the squirrel makings his escape in a hole high up in a tree.I hunted them when I came across them with one passage female and she never got bitten,I just wanted to add them to her quarry list and I enjoyed the high fast and furious tree top flights.

Sam

[Zingy]

I hunted them when I came across them with one passage female and she never got bitten...

Sam

Hello Sam,

You described the flights well! It says that your in the UK. Are you allowed to fly passage birds there?

Thanks,

Phil

[Judd Casper]

Hello Sam,

You described the flights well! It says that your in the UK. Are you allowed to fly passage birds there?

Thanks,

PhilHi Phil this was back in the 80's with a passage Hungarian female imported through the BFC.No we are not allowed to trap and hunt UK passage goshawks......which is a great shame.

Sam

[JimboMoorey]

So Jason, several months on, are you any closer to making a decision?

Be interesting to know what you decided to do.

Cheers,

Jim

[AdeyHawk1970]

We seem to have a big debate on in this country at the moment about harris hawks vrs goshawks.Some of you boys over in the USA will be upsetting the goshawkers by telling them a redtail is better for squirrel hawking than a goshawk :-xThe best hawk ive seen flown in this country at grey squirrels was a female redtail(no contest)Before i flew bird of prey i used to hunt areas of woodland with an air rifle at the request of goshawkers so they didnt see so many during the flying season.Perhaps the goshawk isnt the ultimate hawk for everything after all :razz::razz::razz:

[Zingy]

I was real low on time Sat. do to rain all day. So my closest spots to home are mostly squirrels, so I took the eyass out and we nailed one. She did a fly by and yanked the squirrel off the tree by the tail. The squirrel fell to the ground followed by a gos in hot pursuit. The gos grabbed it on the ground and I was there quickly to help, so she didn't get bit.

[JHausman]

So Jason, several months on, are you any closer to making a decision?

Be interesting to know what you decided to do.

Cheers,

Jim

Still on the fence Jim.

I really don't buy into all the "I wouldn't fly a Gos' on a squirrel if it was the last thing on earth". North Carolina is squirrel hawking country. It's what we do here. Harris' Hawks and Red Tails are the norm on squirrels. My line of thinking is this. If a Harris can do it then why not a Gos'? In fact, I have found a few Gos Hawkers outside the forum who do it all the time with no negative results. I have been talking to one breeder who STARTS his Finnish Gos' on squirrels!

I have a new falcon, Moglich's tiercel hybrid. Been working my butt off getting him on ducks with some success (yes, I am finding ducks here!). As I find areas with ducks for my falcon I also find three more that can't be flown by the falcon. Another reason to consider a Finnish Gos'. I am also always tempted by my dream bird. The Ornate Hawk Eagle. Now THAT would be a squirrel killing machine! That should get some people up in arms! Flying a "king's ransom" bird like that on squirrels. Too funny. LOL

I will let you know if I get a Gos (or an Ornate!)

J.

[Lee Slikkers]

I will let you know if I get a Gos (or an Ornate!)

J.

An Ornate???? Jason, do the Ornate...most of us can live vicariously through! :supz::supz:

[AdeyHawk1970]

theres only one bird for squirrels and thats a redtail,either sex,end of story.

jase.
Now that is the truth!:-P:-P

[Lee Brindley]

We seem to have a big debate on in this country at the moment about harris hawks vrs goshawks.Some of you boys over in the USA will be upsetting the goshawkers by telling them a redtail is better for squirrel hawking than a goshawk :-

I doubt there will be any upset gos men. Now if you said that RTs were better than gosses on pheasants, that would be a different story!

[AdeyHawk1970]

I doubt there will be any upset gos men. Now if you said that RTs were better than gosses on pheasants, that would be a different story!
I dont think there are any birds as good as goshawks for catching pheasants in flight.I have seen a big female redtail that could catch a lot of pheasants in heavy cover that a goshawk or a harris hawk could not penatrate(hardly sporting i know):grin:

[SquirrelHwkr]

Hen redtail, save your money

Couldnt agree more. Get the right tool for the job.:yawinkle:

[Gaz]

Hen redtail, save your money

oH YEAH...:supz::supz::supz::supz:

[FredrickFogg]

I dont think there are any birds as good as goshawks for catching pheasants in flight.I have seen a big female redtail that could catch a lot of pheasants in heavy cover that a goshawk or a harris hawk could not penatrate(hardly sporting i know):grin:

I don't quite understand why most folks think that there is only one way to catch certain prey and anything else is not sporting. Granted, watching a gos fly down a pheasant in a 200 yard flight is awesome, but to say that a red-tail, crashing the brush to snag a pheasant is unsporting isn't right. A red-tail crashing the brush for a rabbit would be considered a fantastic flight, but a pheasant, oh my, that just isn't right. For me, a red-tail doing what a red-tail does is as sporting as it gets. If my red-tail slams a pheasant in the brush, you are going to see one happy falconer. LOL

[BlueFoot]

Alright! I have been looking and looking, searching and searching. Are there any threads on hunting squirrels with a Gos? I am considering a Female Finnish Gos next year. We have squirrels here... what else do we have you ask? Well we have squirrels and also some... um... squirrels. We typically fly RT's on squirrel but I thought a decent sized (1020g+) female Finn would be pretty rockin' on squirrels. I just want to hear if anyone is doing this? I don't need the "Dude, you shouldn't hunt squirrels period" argument. We hunt what we have. My RT caught the only Rabbit I have seen while hunting. Within hours I had buddies calling me telling me they'd heard I had caught a rabbit!!! And I have never seen a quail, pheasant or anything resembling a game bird in the wild in this area.

So... squirrels anyone? ;) ( I would also be smacking Crows and Ducks when I can find them and when I go out West to hunt in big country)

Thanks for any input you might give... or direct me to the threads I cannot find!

Jason

Hi Jason,

The main problem that I see is that a gosses feet are too big to be effective on tree rats. A red tail is far more suited. I have caught a good number of squirrels with gosses, all by accident, and every time they have been bitten and quite badly sometimes.

Regards,
Bluefoot

[FredrickFogg]

Hi Jason,

The main problem that I see is that a gosses feet are too big to be effective on tree rats. A red tail is far more suited. I have caught a good number of squirrels with gosses, all by accident, and every time they have been bitten and quite badly sometimes.

Regards,
Bluefoot

I wonder why they list squirrels as one of the main food source for our North American gos? They find the remains of squirrels at gos nest sites and most of the bird field guides list squirrels as a main source of food for them. Have we as falconers adjusted the bird to what we think is better prey and not to what they actually hunt? Just wondering out loud!

[AdeyHawk1970]

I don't quite understand why most folks think that there is only one way to catch certain prey and anything else is not sporting. Granted, watching a gos fly down a pheasant in a 200 yard flight is awesome, but to say that a red-tail, crashing the brush to snag a pheasant is unsporting isn't right. A red-tail crashing the brush for a rabbit would be considered a fantastic flight, but a pheasant, oh my, that just isn't right. For me, a red-tail doing what a red-tail does is as sporting as it gets. If my red-tail slams a pheasant in the brush, you are going to see one happy falconer. LOL
Please i was only joking when i said it wasnt sporting.Watching a redtail do a wingover stoop at any prey in cover is an awesome sight to see.It certainly makes me happy but then im easily pleased

[BlueFoot]

I wonder why they list squirrels as one of the main food source for our North American gos? They find the remains of squirrels at gos nest sites and most of the bird field guides list squirrels as a main source of food for them. Have we as falconers adjusted the bird to what we think is better prey and not to what they actually hunt? Just wondering out loud!


Hi Fred,

Your thoughts out loud could be right, I really cant say. I have heard that your NA gosses are much smaller than the ones that I fly which are around the 45-48 ounce mark so I will assume that the foot size is a lot smaller too. Maybe it is more effective, maybe there are other variations, maybe there would be a lot more gosses in the North American wild if they didnt keep tackling grey squirrels....a lot of maybes which I dont have the answers to.

I feel the season is short enough though with having my bird laid up recovering from squirrel bites so I try to avoid them.

Regards,
Bluefoot

[FredrickFogg]

Hi Fred,

Your thoughts out loud could be right, I really cant say. I have heard that your NA gosses are much smaller than the ones that I fly which are around the 45-48 ounce mark so I will assume that the foot size is a lot smaller too. Maybe it is more effective, maybe there are other variations, maybe there would be a lot more gosses in the North American wild if they didnt keep tackling grey squirrels....a lot of maybes which I dont have the answers to.

I feel the season is short enough though with having my bird laid up recovering from squirrel bites so I try to avoid them.

Regards,
Bluefoot

Oh don't get me wrong, I don't think I would fly a gos on squirrels, but there are folks over here that do, although most won't admit it. But it wasn't all that long ago that even flying squirrels was considered crazy by most falconers here. And now, there are more and more folks flying them with Harris Hawks. I think the reason a gos and Harris are able to do it is their footing ability. My red-tails just plow into a squirrel, where the few Harris's I have seen catch squirrels are more selective in their footing, as I imagine a gos would be. I think we as falconers tend to push the envelope, so it wouldn't surprise me to see different types of birds hunting squirrels in the future.

[EagleMan]

Still on the fence Jim.

I really don't buy into all the "I wouldn't fly a Gos' on a squirrel if it was the last thing on earth". North Carolina is squirrel hawking country. It's what we do here. Harris' Hawks and Red Tails are the norm on squirrels. My line of thinking is this. If a Harris can do it then why not a Gos'? In fact, I have found a few Gos Hawkers outside the forum who do it all the time with no negative results. I have been talking to one breeder who STARTS his Finnish Gos' on squirrels!

I have a new falcon, Moglich's tiercel hybrid. Been working my butt off getting him on ducks with some success (yes, I am finding ducks here!). As I find areas with ducks for my falcon I also find three more that can't be flown by the falcon. Another reason to consider a Finnish Gos'. I am also always tempted by my dream bird. The Ornate Hawk Eagle. Now THAT would be a squirrel killing machine! That should get some people up in arms! Flying a "king's ransom" bird like that on squirrels. Too funny. LOL

I will let you know if I get a Gos (or an Ornate!)

J.

Hello !
I think that an male ornate hwk eagle is better then a redtail when it momes to hunt squirrels...
An ornate male is pretty the same size aa a female redtail, but due to iit's wings tail ratio, the ornate is a forest flyer, more adapted to this kind of huntig than any redtail.
Plus the male ornate has far more large talons and stronger grip than the redtail.
Just my opinion.
Regards

[BlueFoot]

Oh don't get me wrong, I don't think I would fly a gos on squirrels, but there are folks over here that do, although most won't admit it. But it wasn't all that long ago that even flying squirrels was considered crazy by most falconers here. And now, there are more and more folks flying them with Harris Hawks. I think the reason a gos and Harris are able to do it is their footing ability. My red-tails just plow into a squirrel, where the few Harris's I have seen catch squirrels are more selective in their footing, as I imagine a gos would be. I think we as falconers tend to push the envelope, so it wouldn't surprise me to see different types of birds hunting squirrels in the future.

Hi Fred,

The only bird that I have purposefully flown at squirrels was a large famale harris. It was great fun for sure and we have plenty of them to go at. She was eventually bitten very badly, it ended my season with her and cost a fortune at the Vet's.

I guess its down the the individual falconer to assess the risk versus probability and in this case both would be high. On the other hand (there's always another hand) if there's hardly anything else to go at in ones area and there is a yearning to fly a Finnish gos....., then why not, some new methods or skills might be learned as you say. Until that time I reckon that a 12 bore ('gauge' to our American cousins) is the way to go with the ******s but if we want to do them with some style then a red tail with chaps seems to be pretty effective.

Regards,
Bluefoot