Coopers Hawks

[Isaac]

I　know it's a U.S. bird but does anyone fly them in the U.K.? Or is the European Sparrowhawk about the equivelent?

[Hawkmaster]

They are bigger than our Spars. There are a few that do fly them but we do not hear from them too often. I had amad one that was 8 years old and it took a month to get it jumping 4 foot and then my male Gos put it out of it misery. Pity because it may have been a real good bird.

Have you flown them?

[Isaac]

Yeah, I've heard they're a pretty tempermental bird. I've never flown one myself, just been reading alot about them recently.

[Parahawker]

Yeah i know.. took me a while to get here.
But i didnt see the posting.

Well coopers. ummm.

The Best Darn Accipiter there is.
Yeah there a little temperMental.
But they dont sit up trees sulking like the larger cousins as long
There like the smaller Levant Spars you got in Japan & if kids can ride about on bikes with them on the fist!
Im sure you can man one to do just as good.
Quarry wiseis the sams as the Euro Spar
taking anything from sparrows to Crows
With the odd small rabbit & Duck thrown in.
There great on teal & they are said to be slightly faster than a gos.

Never managed to stop the Gos nailing the coops when flying them side by side :D so cant tell ya


Great birds, absol brillio, so much Zippy fun
Only draw back to them is this
If you got lots of wild Raptors, dont fly them
They will hide & shrink against a tree & disapear & you become even more invisable.
There as close to the bottom of the food chain as a raptor gets!

[GoneHawking]

With reference to Coopers not sitting in trees as long as thier larger cousins!!!
I fly a Tiercel Gos and if he stays in a tree for a couple of miniutes its strange and 5 mins would be alarming, Never left him out all night, he comes back to an ungarnished pair of lure wings as soon as its swung. Just the other day I had the dog on point and the gos was in a tree, I called him down then transferred from the lure, jumped up to an empty fist then into position for the slip (which he missed)but NEVER had him sulking anywhere.
One other thing with the Coops is that they can dive into a hedge and rat hunt along the ground as they do in the wild, not really my kind of flight!!!
European Spar is the best bird for the quarry available in this country, prefferably Blackbirds.

[Parahawker]

Ive only flown one goshawk myself & this was back before people were warned off them.
I also know ever flew the one coopers.
But i have seen a ton fly at feild meets & by friends.

Maybe i just hang around people that arnt meant to fly Accipiters.. lol

As far as rat hunting. they were no more prone to this than the other accipiters i've seen fly

It really depends on what you intended quarry is
and of course the price of whats offered to you.

[Gaz]

Coops at nafa meet,Kansas

[Isaac]

Looks like the toes are a lot more stout then my little spar...Coloring wise they look alot alike!

[IAmTheWeasel]

A male coops and a female sharpy are almost identical and very hard to tell apart even in adult plumage. Unless you can see the tail or hold them up close, the only differences to be seen are the tail shape, coopers have a rounded tip and sharpies have a squared off tip. Sharpies also lack a superorbital ridge like the coops. In a direct comparison of the euro spar and the coops.....not to sure. I plan on trapping a male coops next season to fly on small birds....maybe even pull an eyass as we have quite a few nest sites around......

[Gaz]

Check out the brain on brad........ :shock: :shock: ...meet him in the flesh,you would never belive he could come out with something like that....shiiiiit :mrgreen:

[IAmTheWeasel]

No, no,no.....It's pronounced....Sheeeeeiiitt......

[Trigger]

I have a mate who is just starting to breed coopers. He has 7 at the moment and next year will be his first attempt. He has offered to sell me one from his first clutch. I don't hunt (no time) but I wondered if they could ever be used as display birds? I hav never used a spar for display and wondered if I should steer clear of a coopers?

[Hawkmaster]

You may get away with it as am imprint, otherwise don't bother. lol

[IAmTheWeasel]

The rehab center I volunteer at won't dare use them as they are too high strung when sitting around lots of people....Like Hawk master stated, you may be OK with an imprint as all of ours have been injured wild birds.

[Jorge Sales Lisboa]

Observing a size scale among the Accipiter north American, the scale in an ascending way would be the smallest of the whole Accipiter striatus, later the Accipiter cooperi and last in the size scale the Accipiter gentilis.
These three species possess morphology that links directly to the food type that they consume. The Accipiter striatus possesses very fine tarsos, long fingers with protuberances very developed denoting an almost total specialization for hunt of birds, in the other end we have Accipiter gentilis fingers very also developed but with big claws and thick fingers demonstrating to be also a predator of birds and mammals as rabbits, hares, squirrels. Among the two we found the Accipiter cooperi with characteristics of the two birds not arriving the robustness of the Accipiter gentilis and also denoting speed and agility characteristics adult of the Accipiter striatus.
In Falconry, perhaps the best bird to be chosen would be the Accipiter cooperi, but in agreement with those that handled has her a "demoniac temper " what does with that many reprove her like ideal Accipiter to be flown.

Jorge

[SparsTheOne]

heres a nice little coopers

[Adam Barrett]

Nice bird-is he yours mate?

[SparsTheOne]

no m8 just a pics a nice amercia guy sent me lol


jase.

[Harris.Hawk]

Hi I flew a male coopers hawk for 2 seasons a few years ago he was an imprint and I found him very trainable. I cant remember his exact flying weight but he had bags of courage and would bate even at full grown pheasants. If I remember correctly I always thought they were just the wrong size for quarry in this country, as he was too big to be agile enough for spa quarry and too small for gos quarry, a bit in between really. However I did take many moorhen with him and if I had the chance to fly one again I would, but not for the inexperienced.
Harris.Hawk

[OhMyGod]

a male coopers is far far better than a female spar on partridge. They also can easily take woodcock and teal etc, which sparrowhawks struggle on. They can take magpies and doves much better than sparrowhawks, and female coopers are superb at catching squirrels and rabbits and ducks.

I believe coopers are a totally different bird to sparrowhawks, far more superior to our euro spars which are excellent on hedgerow birds, larks, starlings etc

[OutFlying]

OHG, from your experience, why hasn't the coopers become a more popular hawk in the Uk ? Are they more difficult to train etc ?

The Irish seem to fly the spar well at hooded crows, and I know some in this country which are flown at corvids with great success. Until you mentioned your successes with a coopers, all people that I'd spoke to including a Uk breeder and others who had seen them flown in the states didn't rate them as highly as the female spar. I've never seen one fly so I am interested in your results. When compared to the spar, what differences did you encounter when imprinting them both ?

Yours Outflying.

[M & J Raptors]

Why do they call them them the flying lizard, ? OMG ?

[OutFlying]

OHG, from your experience, why hasn't the coopers become a more popular hawk in the Uk ? Are they more difficult to train etc ?

The Irish seem to fly the spar well at hooded crows, and I know some in this country which are flown at corvids with great success. Until you mentioned your successes with a coopers, all people that I'd spoke to including a Uk breeder and others who had seen them flown in the states didn't rate them as highly as the female spar. I've never seen one fly so I am interested in your results. When compared to the spar, what differences did you encounter when imprinting them both ?

Yours Outflying. :?:

[Natch]

i have got some vo/tape of coppers breeding in my garden :tonqe:

[OutFlying]

i have got some vo/tape of coppers breeding in my garden :tonqe:

isn't this illegal, coppers (police) breeding in your garden and you filming it - probably a specialist market.......... :shock:

More interested in coopers hawks and there training. :wink:

[Hawkmaster]

:lol:

[OutFlying]

HM - this video might need moving to the dvd section. It might be a follow up to falconers wives......................................

[OhMyGod]

Outflying

I have imprinted euro spars but not coopers. I have also flown parent reared spars and one haggard musket. I have flown one parent reared female coopers for 2 seasons and seen a male throughout its two seasons.

I think the main advantages of coopers are the speed. If you have flown spars at partridge then I'm sure you are aware that if they just had a bit more speed they would be better.

You say you know some people who fly spars at corvids with great success. Can you be more specific? I have taken magpies with spars but do not believe you can fly spars at rooks with GREAT success as you have put it.

The spars I have flown have also let me down in the flight of woodcocks from trees. In this perticular quarry hunted in the style I told you about in earlier posts or threads I found the coopers to be far more superior. BOTH male and female coopers, took far more kills.

As I explained to you earlier about mallards with female coopers. They do get wing whipped off but if you can get in real quick you have a good chance and the bird being rewarded for this will continue to take them with agression, and will hang on to even drake mallard for a lot longer until you can get in and assist. At least that is what happened for me. That coopers would never let go intentionally, even under tremendous strain.

You say fem coopers are 15oz, the one I flew was 16 - 17.5 oz and I believe americans trap females as passage and fly them up to 19 oz.

As for why they are not popular hear in the u.k. may have somthing to do with the fact that most english people say they are the same as spars. I did not find this to be the case, and considering the price of coopers why would anyone buy one when they are told they are just like spars, which they are not. Maybe they have a more scatty temperement than spars and may lock up in a tree or whatever. Also people can purchase a german/finish male cheaper than a fem coopers. so this is another reason why they are not flown.

I said it before and now again

"A male coopers will **** all over your sparrowhawks each and every time!!"

unless you are trying to catch starlings or dickie birds.

The picture above is a classic example of a male coopers. Just look at its feet! This bird will fly at 10 - 12 oz+

totally different to the female which has a foot similar to a gos and is much more stocky.

[M & J Raptors]

Bloody hell OMG how old are you ? im just trying to total up all the birds you have flown, did you start early :lol:

why do they call coopers flying lizards ?

[OhMyGod]

Yes billy I have been fortunate

I have never really had a job other than flying birds every day.

I started at centres when I was a kid and handled alot of birds. I only really hunted with harris and reds until I passed my driving test at 17, when I started on landfills with longwings.

The bird that tought me most about rook hawking was a pere/lanner and since then I have come to fly many different birds. It is very easy to fly more birds on some sites as there are all quarry species there for the taking. I spent two seasons in Southern Africa and working at different centres in between. So I could fly black spars and peregrinus minor.

All I can do is give out the information which I have gained myself. In the eight years I have been on landfills most of my experience has been with shortwings, Pere/hybrids, gyr/sakers, peregrines, harris, and some boring birds to be trained up for displays to keep me busy like luggers, lanners, kites, owls etc.

[OutFlying]

"You say you know some people who fly spars at corvids with great success. Can you be more specific? I have taken magpies with spars but do not believe you can fly spars at rooks with GREAT success as you have put it."

This based on the experiences of spars flown in Ireland at corvids, which I think is their main prey.

[OhMyGod]

yeah ok which corvids? ravens?

[OutFlying]

hooded crows

[M & J Raptors]

Yes billy I have been fortunate

I have never really had a job other than flying birds every day.

I started at centres when I was a kid and handled alot of birds. I only really hunted with harris and reds until I passed my driving test at 17, when I started on landfills with longwings.

The bird that tought me most about rook hawking was a pere/lanner and since then I have come to fly many different birds. It is very easy to fly more birds on some sites as there are all quarry species there for the taking. I spent two seasons in Southern Africa and working at different centres in between. So I could fly black spars and peregrinus minor.

All I can do is give out the information which I have gained myself. In the eight years I have been on landfills most of my experience has been with shortwings, Pere/hybrids, gyr/sakers, peregrines, harris, and some boring birds to be trained up for displays to keep me busy like luggers, lanners, kites, owls etc.


What centres have you worked at OMG in the UK ? are you working for John Dickson, NBC, must be a chore having a bird on the fist all year,

Billy

[M & J Raptors]

Outflying

Trev [ good male imprint] flew an imprint spar a couple of years ago, killed 30 rooks, 18 crows, umpteen maggies, in 4 months, would not take small birds ?
but it was awsome on the black stuff


Billy

[OutFlying]

Billy
I've spoken to an Irish guy with an imprint spar and that's his main quarry, will meet up with him at the fair again and find out his exact total. I also now of Rob Coles - he seems to have good success at rooks and crows with his spars.
I've never seen to the 2 above fly, but have no reason to doubt their success.
Outflying.

[OhMyGod]

hooded crows, I have never seen one so I don't believe I would be able to catch many around these parts with a spar. So what corvids do you suggest people fly at and expect "great success"

No I don't work for John Dixon. what do you mean "must be a chore having a bird on the fist all year"

My first centre was at lackford, then holdenby House, for a year, Then shire falconry centre in desborough which no longer exists. I worked at Sun City as the only falconer doing 3 displays a day 6 days a week, where we had about 8 eagles, 8 falcons, kites and a bunch of crappy owls and a few other african things. I worked at a place called falcon ridge, another centre in the drakensbourg mountains. I went to swaziland and took people out from the hotels with black spars and flew them at franclin and guinea fowl and made a good living. all the rest has been on sites in wales midlands south west and a coupl in anglia.

[OutFlying]

rooks

[OhMyGod]

cool. I never flew any coopers at any corvids apart from magpies. I used a dog and went out for game, and got much better results than sparrowhawks with all game species.

[OutFlying]

OMG, thats the beauty of falconry different people use different hawks at different quarry and obtain different results. For you it seems the female coopers hawk provided the sport you needed and in your hands produced better results than you obtained with a spar. Other people will disagree but who cares ? I flew a male finnish imprint at wild grey partridge over a pointer - it rarely missed on the first slip, with plenty of flights going out of sight.

[OhMyGod]

yes thats correct. What make you think a male coopers is not better at corvids than a female spar?

I would not fly a spar at rooks 4 times its weight and well hard, I'm thinking (but not sure) that a female coopers would be better suited to the job as I found they are much faster and hold on harder than spars.

Any way this is my last post, I have said what I have to say on the matter, lets just say we both have different opinions on the spar/coopers.

Like you have said in previous posts and threads you think a female spar will take crows, rooks, partridge, magpies, better than a coopers. Thats o.k. we don't have to agree with each other.

[OutFlying]

where's the disagreement ?

[M & J Raptors]

yes thats correct. What make you think a male coopers is not better at corvids than a female spar?

I would not fly a spar at rooks 4 times its weight and well hard, I'm thinking (but not sure) that a female coopers would be better suited to the job as I found they are much faster and hold on harder than spars.

Any way this is my last post, I have said what I have to say on the matter, lets just say we both have different opinions on the spar/coopers.

Like you have said in previous posts and threads you think a female spar will take crows, rooks, partridge, magpies, better than a coopers. Thats o.k. we don't have to agree with each other.

for OMGODS sake, why do they call coops the flying lizard, if you do not know just say so,

[Finnish]

Come on it looks :shock: like your going to have to tell us. :?

[M & J Raptors]

i have never flew a coops so dont know, but OMG should, bloody hell hes flown more birds than the bloke on the ketchup advert, and hes still shitting green :lol:

[Finnish]

:lol:

[Isaac]

All you out there that have experience flying spars, how did they do on teal? I'm on my first spar and took a few pigeons last season but I'm aiming for teal next year. Never done it before though so I'm open to suggestions, even if they include "impossible" (although I'm not likely to listen to that one :wink: ). I'm thinking of a passage Coopers when I get back to the states though in a few years. Whats the weight difference between a female spar and a male coopers?

[Hawkmaster]

Not impossible, my dad caught ducks in South Africa with a Spar, but it was and Female Ovambo Sparrowhawk.

[OhMyGod]

female spars are 7 - 8 1/2oz

male coopers are 10 - 12 1/2 oz

Yes your spar will take teal, however the male coopers in my opinion (but not others hear) will be much better and will take them much more frequently as it is more suited to this type of quarry.

[Hawkmaster]

I agree.

[Tim Laycock]

I have taken teal numerous times with a spar but she was an imprint.
she was very aggressive and in the end it was her undoing.

The parent reared spar I had would not entertain anything bigger than a jackdaw.
I used to hunt along a stream and if you put a teal up she would just look the other way.

[RabbitHawker]

I agree, I can't imagine any but a good imprint would cope with displays, fine if it works out but what if it doesn't, better to find the time to hunt with it.

[OhMyGod]

WTF

AmericanFalconerInJapan

You may have a hard time flying coopers at teal in the states as they are mostly gone from your small ponds hunting grounds.

If a coopers is the bird you want to fly when you return I strongly recomend getting an eyas instead of a passage bird , get it entered ASAP and have fun in the early part of the season when most of your teal and other exiting quarry will still be about for your bird to 'chase'.

Just a thought

[Isaac]

I've still got a couple of years before I head back to the states, but thanks for the info. My spar flies at 205 grams (sorry not too good at oz.) and she loves tackling pigeons that are twice her size (See my diary "Spark, female spar in Japan"). She's only given a half hearted chase at sparrows twice so it seems like the bigger the better for her. :minigun: From what I understand teal weigh about 400 grams? Just about the right. It'll be fun trying either way and if she doesn't take to them there's always plenty more pigeons! :mrgreen:

[The Late Lord Lucan]

So why do they call the coops 'a flying lizard'?...........

Don't worry Billy, I'll be round shortly with my .22 saturday night special to put you out of you misery, I'll bring two rounds, cos this ones freakin killing me too....

DOES ANYONE KNOW THE ANSWER TO THIS QUESTION..........???

Me and Billy are about to be driven over the edge if we don't get an answer soon.......

Jesus, I feel a freakin lead pipe moment coming on........

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Bird_Dog]

Never heard of the flying lizard. Some of the country folk call the blue darters or that might be what they call sharpies too. In North Texas we're luck to have a Cooper's Hawk guru. Most shy away from them for obvious reasons. I've flown a couple passage coops in my time. We have a great place to trap them on the gulf coast called Smith Point. A bow net and a lure pole with a pigeon is all it takes. At the right time of the year you can take your pick. One year I watched a field ornithologist trapped over a dozen in one morning. The best female I caught was actually unintentional. I had finished setting up my lure pole with a pigeon and wanted to test how well the lure bird would flap. It was before sunrise so there wasn't much to see. On the first tug of the string out of seemingly no where a huge 24 oz hen passage grabbed the pigeon. Normally you try to time it so that the pigeon is caught near the bow net. But, since I wasn't expecting it, I had to carefully drag the pigeon and the Cooper's Hawk about 6 ft to the position of the net. A few minutes later I netted another large passage female. My experience with passage coops has been without much strife. I tended to tree hawk them and they didn't object to my dog. I caught a wide range of game which is what they're known for. I wanted to get into snipe or woodcock hunting,but I was offered a peregrine to fly... so ended my days as an Austringer. The one negative was it was hard to take other people with you to fly. I always wore the same field clothes, changes in appearence seem to affect them.

-- BIRD_DOG