Diary of Sapphire Female RedTail

[Jeremiah Johnson]

Ok where to start Sapphire and her partner Steel, arrived 10 days ago after an initial settling period, Sapphire was caught up from her avairy last night.. (21/10/04) Furniture was fitted and her feet were cleaned up and a light coat of baby oil applied as they appeared very dry and were flacking. Sappire is 9 years old appears, in good condition she obliged to the scales and to the fist so maybe she has been manned and flown in the past ? Sapphire weighed in at 3lb 9 3/4 oz's sapphire spent the night settling undisturbed in the spare room.

[Hawkmaster]

Hi there Flame, nice to see you posting up a training thread! Hope the forum is your new home online! Have fun, post some pics and see you again!

How long you been flying?

Cheers Paul

[Jeremiah Johnson]

Day 2 22/10/04

Sapphire was calm on my aproach in the spare room but bated as I quitely made in to her after letting her regain the perch i touched her chest lightly with my glove and she jumped on (quite a thump!) resting my fist on the perch i quickly untied the leash and moved Sapphire to her new quarters (been to wet and windy for the weathering lawn) i left her to settle. At 3.30pm i approached Sappire quitley with a view to weighing her as she had now cast .. She allowed me into her quarters but then bated after she regained the perch i again touched her chest lightly and she jumped to the glove .. She weighed in at 3lb 93/8 oz's returning Sapphire to her quaters and leaving her with a DOC..At dusk as anticipated Sapphire had not eaten..

My first targets are to see Sapphire eating... Too not Bate on pickup and to see her eat quail and Rat as in the avairy she refused everything except DOC...

[Jeremiah Johnson]

Hello there Paul . I have worked with harris's only !! This will be my first non Harris.. Intialy Sapphire and Steel were purchased as a breeding pair although no records could be provided i suspect this is not the case Sappire aledgedly flew untill 3 years old and has spent the last 6 years in a 6x6x8 avairy i decided to pull sappfire out to ***** her hunting abilities
and also because i want a mute sample and to get her eating a varied diet as i suspect only DOC's have been the norm..

PS have you a good contact for mute sampling?

********Ill just edit this in The 6x6x8 avairy was her previous owners
the redtails avairy i have got for them is 12x12x12*******

[Hawkmaster]

Where do you live? We have a vet section that may help too?

[Jeremiah Johnson]

Shropshire ill look in vet section tnx...

[Hawkmaster]

Any luck? What quarry you wanting to take with her? She sounds like a good bird for hare?

[Jeremiah Johnson]

yep found the info tnx.....

well i hope she will breed in 2006 she seemed quite bonded with her partner....however although i do wish to breed i want to breed quality
so i hope to hunt her this season and video the occasion ATM though this is a tall order...Getting the weight off a Redtail i am told is not so easy

Any advice in that sector will be recieved gladly

[Jeremiah Johnson]

Day 3 .........23/10/04

This morning revealed that Sapphire had eaten the DOC I left with her overnight. As the weather was bad Sapphire spent the day in the weathering. I picked her up around 11am to try measure for a hood. The one my mate had made for Saphire fitted well and did not require adjustment.
Sapphire took the hood well i wasnt expecting this ... but i shall leave the hood now untill she is eating off the fist.... Sapphire had a couple of bates on pick up so I let her regain the perch and she thumped to the fist...this pattern was repeated again at 17.30, when i picked her up to be weighed.
Saph weighed in at 3lb 8 & 7/8 oz's i manned Saph for 15 mins or so indoors , I then relaced her into her quarters leaving her with a full quail and 3 DOC one of which had supplement added ... i dont expect her to take the quail but i want to keep her at top weight for a couple more weeks.........

so one of the targets has been acheived looking forward to the morning to see what has been eaten if anything...

[Hawkmaster]

Are you just after her top weight by feeding her so much?

[Shaun Byrne]

Hello Flame and welcome, if your FRT is anything like mine I wouldnt worry about trying to keep her at top weight, it took me 2 months to drop mine to anything near a flying weight. RTs seem to cling to weight far longer than a HH.

[Shaun Byrne]

Flame, once you get her weight down, keep her away from the male no matter how bonded they are. My female nearly nailed her mate through the aviary wire, luckily she only got hold of his wing.

[Jeremiah Johnson]

Yes H4wka i will definatley watch that one i would be intrested to hear how you went about dropped the weight on your FRT (besides feeding less LOL)

Paul i was going to just gonna let her settle into the new routine for a week or so get a mute sample done and then i have a month off work to dedicate full time to her.

but your opinion will be greatly recieved as this is not only my first "OLD"
bird but as i said my first that isnt a Harris..

[Hawkmaster]

Red are masters of fasting and will not do much unless up for it. I would man her like a demon! But still continue the normal routine of training. So try them step by step, like feeding on the fist, stepping up etc etc etc.

[Shaun Byrne]

Hello Flame,
Personally I would start to ration now if you want to get her going, with mine, training and manning is out of the question until her weight starts to drop. To drop weight I feed loads of washed meat so she doesn't feel starved, rabbit is good with a supliment.

[Jeremiah Johnson]

Day 6 ....26/10/04

Sapphire no longer bates on pick-up! , Sapphire is now eating Rat & Quail
Her Feet/talons are looking a lot better...weight was 3lb 9 & 3/4 oz only up 1/4 oz

I manned Sappire pretty much all day , several walks , a bit of TV and the some of the time she observed me in my workshop, she was very steady and not fussed by any of what i was doing. She also took a bath as soon as it was offered. Very few bates whist on the fist and none whislt on her bowperch, She even allowed me to clean her feet up gentle with a soft toothbrush and rub some baby oil into them ... I am not sure of my next target as in....to cut rations or only offer food on the fist.. i will sleep on it tonight..

Flame...........

[Jeremiah Johnson]

Day...7....27/10/04

I decided to feed off the fist as my next target Sapphire was not given any food in the morning and i spent most of the day manning her and my supper..I spent 2 hours indoors offerering Sapphire food on the fist i felt i was getting close but eventualy called it a day and placed Sapphire back into her quarters for the evening.

[Jeremiah Johnson]

Day 8 28/10/04

Today i had to go off for the day but got up early (6am) to give Sapphire an hours manning after an hour I offered Sapphire a gutted DOC on the fist after about 10 seconds she decided to eat In all Sapphire ate two gutted DOC's on the fist and thenI placed her in the weathering and spent 30 mins or so sitting with her..

[Jeremiah Johnson]

So guys opinions please............ Oh and sorry its a ***** picture ... i bought the camera off ebay :oops:

[Jeremiah Johnson]

Day 9 29/10/04

Manned for an hour Sapphire ate off fist instantly and was Rewarded for it with 3 gutted DOC's Manned for a further hour... placed on weathering lawn and manned for two hours later in the afternoon....

[Jeremiah Johnson]

Anyone reading this !!!! I feel all alone out here :? , There was some people dropping in to chat but no more ...... Wondering have i upset someone

[Wightwings]

not at all mate its great reading. glad you've had the breakthrough. like the commitment gettin up early for the manning.
keep em coming mate.
:D :D

[Hawkmaster]

Hi Flame she looks lovely, nice and big, but is her weight now? Sorry for asking, I have a brain like a sieve, have you done this before?

[Shaun Byrne]

Got to agree, ***** picture lol!! Nice looking bird Though, we're all reading mate, keep it coming.

[Jeremiah Johnson]

ahh people

Paul weight yesterday at 7am was 3lb 71/4 oz

I bloody forgot to weigh tonight . :oops: meant too.... set scales up and everything then remembered as the last DOC went down.... she feels to have lost a bit but still plenty of flesh on her and the bates almost TOW me along!!!..

I have trained several Harris's and ATM am using same method cept i cut out the settling in period but never touched a REDTAIL prior to this

I do have a question though its seems a long time after feeding till she casts generaly around 18hrs its that odd !!!

I feel we are ready here to try a small jump just i have a wedding tommorro so tempted to leave till sunday morning that gives me all day to work off and on at it i shall have to think on it !! hopefully i will get a scales reading before i go tommorro afternoon

[Hawkmaster]

18 hours is Ok. If you do leave it until Sunday then start with a step up to the fist just for a leg and them start jumping. Try go as fast as the bird will allow. I never do the settling in thing anyway as it just wastes time.

[Jeremiah Johnson]

okdokey

[Jeremiah Johnson]

Day 10 30/10/2004

Wedding today just weighed Sapphire at 3lb 61/4oz

[Jeremiah Johnson]

Day 11 31/10/04

0800hrs Sapphire weighed in at 3lb 51/2 oz i was a bit worried about the weight loss so checked me scales and me weights..

all ok
so i set to work on my next target "Step Up"

Intially there was a lot going on dogs , my wife , the kids , noise

I tried for about ten minutes but failed....so i took Sapphire for a walk for a bit of manning then put her into the weathering...

After a coffee and a smoke i returned to try again but this time one of my harris's had spotted the food and was really getting a bit exited so i abandoned that Idea and decided to take the Harris's out for a walk

1 hour later i returned (with a fresh pheasant) cutting the leg off i held this by sapphires feet and I think the warm juicy flesh was bit much for her and she gave in.... head came down fist went up and hey presto first step up I let Sapphire feed up on the leg and then took her to a less quiet envoiroment and repeated the proceduer with a gutted Chick

I think we shall repeat this tommorro Sapphire needs more manning so i think a full day on the fist tommorro

[Wightwings]

sh is a BIG girl aint she, i feel sorry for them poor cottontails already it will be like a train hitting em :twisted:

good reading flame, interested in the settling in comments. picking my up next weekend and going to allow a week to settle with minimal manning then im on a week off for some intensive stuff. never done the settle thing before usually just pick up and get on with it.

[Jeremiah Johnson]

how many weeks old is she dude?

[Jeremiah Johnson]

Day 12 1/11/04


0900hrs Sapphire steped up for a pick up piece well and weighed in at 3lb 5 3/4oz 1/4oz up on yesterday due to the pheasant leg.. but she done well and was rewarded for it

I had hoped to man her today but i just had to much work however we managed an hour's manning and placed her onto the weathering lawn letting her settle there for a hour or so.
Then I approached with a DOC after about 5 mins Sapphire did not make a move, but i could tell she wanted too, I left her for another hour and tried again but again to no avail. 1 more hour and still nothing, anyway i decided to get a good step up and leave it at that after a couple of minutes with the food at her feet i still had no response.. I decided to try one other thing before giving up on the day and not letting Sapphire feed.. So i picked Sapphire up and offered food on the fist as a taster Sapphire immeidietly began to feed I let her 3 mouthfulls and quickly backed her onto the bow perch whilst she was still eating droping the food to her feet, Sapphire then oblighed with a Step up.
I quickly repated this but this time moved the food 6 inchs away Sapphire jumped.......!!!!!!!
This was quickly repeated a further 3 times... Sapphire ate 1 FULL DOC and 1 gutted DOC

Sapphire needs more manning that I know.
Target now is to man and just hopefully reinforce todays lessons tommorro and I think drop some weight on wednesday as i am away all day...

[Jeremiah Johnson]

Day 13 2/11/2004

Manned most of day and reinforced step ups and a few small 6 inch hops to the fist fed 2 DOC's Gutted...weight 3lb 5 1/2 oz

[Jeremiah Johnson]

Day 14 3/11/2004


Weighed this morning 7am.... 3lb 5 1/2 oz

Manned for an hour then had to go off for the day

Weighed again 17:30 3lb 5 1/8 oz

Manned for an hour then then gave taster on the fist perched sapphire on scales in the shed sapphire came instantly to full length of lease repeated this 3 more times manned 30 more minutes

I am getting the response I want at this stage with no signs of a monster developing as the weight is reduced...


Tommorros target is to get Sapphire to do full leash jumps outside whilst walking along a fence if....she does well will give her full crop of washed meat

[Jeremiah Johnson]

Day 15 4/11/2004

Sapphire weighed 3lb 4 7/8 walked with sapphire to a fence and gave her a nibble on the fist placed her on the fence and she hopped back and forth full leash length 5 times haveing a nibble of chick each time ... then she started to become more intrested in her surroundings than the food on offer so i placed sapphire on the weathering lawn ad left her for a few hours... in the afternoon i picked her up again done some manning and then placed her on the fence feeling a bit ambitious i put the creance on
after about ten seconds she came a distance of 6 feet i repeated this once more and rewarded her well with 4 DOC chicks (washed)

[Jeremiah Johnson]

Day 16 5/11/2004

weighed Sapphire at 3lb 5oz 0830hrs

Tried sapphire on the garden fence for a leash jump not intrested had to go to work for 2 days now put her back in quaters done a step up for a quick nibble...

My son ferd Sapphire at dusk 1/2 a gutted skinned quail and 1 full DOC

[Jeremiah Johnson]

Day 17 6/11/2004

I was away at work my eldest son visited Sapphire and spent 5 mins with periodicaly during the day......Sapphire was fasted today

[Jeremiah Johnson]

Day 18 7/11/2004


Arrived home at 10.00hrs

Weighed Sapphire 3lb 4oz

Manned for an hour and set up a perch in the field

put creance on and tried Sapphire at a yard she came after around 10 seconds

Then 2 yards came well

3 yards came well

4 yards bit slow but came

5 yards bit slow but came

6 yards bit slow (15 sec wait)

Rewarded Sapphire for good work with with remainder of 4 DOC gutted and deheaded (but not washed)

She has done well would like faster response....after weiging tommorro will make a decision will weigh AM and if weight high wait till late afternoon weigh again and go from there

[Shaun Byrne]

Nice one mate, coming on slow but sure. Nice big bird, have you got any more pics?

[Jeremiah Johnson]

Day 19 3lb 3 7/8oz

Sapphire setpped up well but that was about it tried creance work but she just sat there drinking in the scenary fished wqith a few stepups to finish on a good note and left it at that

Day 20 3lb 3 1/4oz again today poor slow response finished quickly on a small jump only

Day 21 3lb 3lb 3 14 oz repose still slow so gave her time for a 20 foot flight waited 3-4 mins then she casme i fed her up with 4 washed Doc,s
in the hope that she will remember the large reward for the flight and also i am away tommorro

Day 22 Sapphire Fasted

Day 23 3lb 2 1/4 oz

Hey we getting there came home about ten sapphire watching my every move as i prepared her food... Instant jump for pick up piece
attached creance small jump instat 30 feet not bad at all done a couple more at thirty feet and fed her up 3 DOC,s.... Manned

Day 24 3lb 2 1/4 oz

As yesterday good flights still a bit slow response sapphire now flying back to her perch and getting ready finished on full creance flight fed 2 DOC's for this

[Shaun Byrne]

Coming on now mate, she should be really steady when you get her free, with bringing her weight down nice and slow. Well done, keep up the posts!!

[Jeremiah Johnson]

Day 25

Creance work but Sapphire was slower

Day 26
Bad Day all round Tried in the morning on the creance no responce 3lb 2oz

gave her a minute then put her back in Quarters as i had to go off for the day

and this went all wrong due to work and meetings and a traffiic accident on the way home

I didnt arrive home untill 22.00hrs

i had meant to be home at 1500hrs to 1600hrs I decided to leave Sapphire untill the morning

[Jeremiah Johnson]

Day 27

Right Disaster has struck but ill post about that after this because i need advice

Sapphire weighed 3lb 1 oz after popping her on her perch response was instant in fact on the second and third flights i had to run backwards to get some distance froth and fith was instant as soon as i whistled I then gave sppahire a really big reward on the final flight...but as i said read on i need advice

[Shaun Byrne]

Come on Flame, wots up?

[Jeremiah Johnson]

Ok when i went to Sapphires quarters this morning sapphire had dropped a primary feather

Read on please.. for those that cant remember or new to the thread or to save you back tracking ... sapphire came to me after spending the last eight years in an Avairy and been kept at top weight for that.. now i suspected that she has been moulting through out the year due to eating maximum rations.. Guys what should i do now abandon the training or what

Now i am dubious about posting this for fear of been flamed so keep it constructive please whats done is done , There were also other reasons and possible health issues (proved unfounded) why sapphire was drawn from the avairy...

Saying that this training of an older Redtail is a different world from training young Harris's quite an eye opener really, I'll be the first to admit that..

[Wightwings]

hi Flame my friends HH dropped a feather the other day which surprised me but h is actually finishing a moult!!??

[Shaun Byrne]

Are you sure she has finished her moult? I would try to bring her weight down a bit quicker, it doesn't seem like your getting much response yet anyway. If you can get her weight down it may stop her moulting again. I doubt if she has started another moult if she has just had one, especially now the shorter daylight hours are here.
Personally I would say that she is just finishing, bring her weight down and keep training.

[Jeremiah Johnson]

No as i said she had been moulting all year around

and i have to move in at some point or i will never be able to get her out of avairy to fly

yes i want to continue with the training i am enjoying it

but what could be my worse scenario as regarding defect feathers etc??

[Dave G]

carry on with the training flame could be just one of her last feathers to drop they after all hunt and moult out at the same time in the wild but i do hear ur concerns but would not worry, will be dropping the weight off my female red very soon

[Darren]

what do they do in the wild....sit in a tree for a few months while they molt.....NO...i think you should just carry on with her I am sure she will be fine

[MickeyDredd]

I'm sure the bird will be finished its moult by now as this thread is from 2004 :!: :lol: :lol:

[Goldie]

PMSL