For EddieT

[DesO'Neile]

I read another post where you said that you used to have a male Gyr/Sak that would take crows etc. on the rise but never really got to grips with flying them down.
Can I ask you a couple of questions?
Was this just something that was in the bird?
What would you do to avoid this happening when entering a young bird?

I completed a deal for a 3/4 similar cross myself just last night and this is something feel I need to know.

[EddieT]

I read another post where you said that you used to have a male Gyr/Sak that would take crows etc. on the rise but never really got to grips with flying them down.
Can I ask you a couple of questions?
Was this just something that was in the bird?
What would you do to avoid this happening when entering a young bird?

I completed a deal for a 3/4 similar cross myself just last night and this is something feel I need to know.

Its hard to put a categoric answer to this, but my feeling is that it was indeed something to do with the mentality of the bird. Maybe he was more complex mentally than i was ready to cope with in my first long wing but the only thing about his training that i can think of to point at was probably that i spent a bit too long stooping him to the lure for fitness before getting him entered, but actually getting him entered was not too difficult, i really can't figure out why it was just crows on the wing that he didn't fancy (not a good attribute in a crow falcon!). If i had the chance again, well i know a bit more now so perhaps i would have picked up on something that i could have done better with him, but i'm not sure.

In his second year he actually did turn on to crows properly for a short while (less than a fortnight) and caught 5 crows in 6 slips. And then, just as suddenly as it started, one day he just turned off from chasing crows on the wing. He continued trying to take them on on the ground/rise, flying cunning to approach as close as possible staying hidden from view and so stop them taking wing before he was on them. I tried everything i knew and he would fly huge distances with real intent to take a dead crow either on the ground or suspended in the air (which i tried and tried as a means of a cure), but show him a real one out in the open (no chance of a sneaky approach) or already flying and he would just ignore it. At the end of the day this bird really wanted to take ground game despite all my efforts to do other with him.To slip him at crows that he just ignored, only to turn on the afterburners to smack a myxy rabbit (and on occasions even hares) that he had spotted was very frustrating.

Incidentally, i think he might have made a good game hawk as he took the only pheasant i ever flushed under him (it was an 'experiment' to see if he would) and on a couple of other occasions put great flights at pheasant and partridge that were accidentally flushed when he was on the wing. At the time though i didn't have the ground with enough game to seriously try making him into a game hawk.

I hope this helps.

It would be good to hear from others that have had both success and failure at making a crow hawk out of a gyr/saker to hear their experiences. I think that anything with peregrine in it is a much more 'automatic' bird taker, but gyr/sakers can throw up some interesting problems when it comes to taking the black stuff?

Cheers,

Eddie

[DesO'Neile]

Thanks for taking the time to answer.
Des

[Berkut]

A friend and I flew 2, 3/4 gyr x 1/4 sakers at gulls.The were both females and were certainly equipped for the job but they seemed to lack committment.

Once they were showing promise, they would often disappoint us as they would do all the hard work stooping at a gull and when all that was left was to make the strike or bind,they would turn off.
The gulls were certainly very intimidated by their size, as they flew around 2lb 12 oz.

Both made mediocre gulls hawks overall, but when they did turn it on they were very impressive.The could fly in any winds.
I certainly prefer gull or crow hawks to have a percentage of peregrine in them.

That said and done, I have a friend who flies nothing else but these birds at crows and gulls and gets results I have yet to see anywhere else. All the birds he flies are imprints.


ATB,
Neil

[DesO'Neile]

Berkut.
I was talking to Colin Taylor the other night and your name was mentioned. Colin has put together a deal whereby my bird, a male, is coming from Paul Bevan. It is rekoned that the bird will probably fly at about 2 lb.
Like everything in 2007 this wasn't part of a master plan and now that the bird is coming I have to find a use for it. I am initially attracted to crows. Bangor where I live is full to the brim with crows. The only problem is that we are well endowed with trees. Big tall, 150 - 200 year old trees.
What we also have coming out our ears is gulls and down by the sea there are open areas so gulls looks like the lesser of two evils.
Logic suggests that properly handled this bird should be fit for the job but I have read quite a few posts on this pursuit thread and notwithstanding some peoples view that a fit bird can handle just about anything the main worry seems to be a male handling a big gull on the ground.
I am now committed to this course of action even though I have seen a few references to a male being unsuitable as a novice's gull/crow hawk.

I am working on the basis that there is the danger I might learn something.

www.glencuanpointers.com

[Berkut]

Berkut.
I was talking to Colin Taylor the other night and your name was mentioned. Colin has put together a deal whereby my bird, a male, is coming from Paul Bevan. It is rekoned that the bird will probably fly at about 2 lb.
Like everything in 2007 this wasn't part of a master plan and now that the bird is coming I have to find a use for it. I am initially attracted to crows. Bangor where I live is full to the brim with crows. The only problem is that we are well endowed with trees. Big tall, 150 - 200 year old trees.
What we also have coming out our ears is gulls and down by the sea there are open areas so gulls looks like the lesser of two evils.
Logic suggests that properly handled this bird should be fit for the job but I have read quite a few posts on this pursuit thread and notwithstanding some peoples view that a fit bird can handle just about anything the main worry seems to be a male handling a big gull on the ground.
I am now committed to this course of action even though I have seen a few references to a male being unsuitable as a novice's gull/crow hawk.

I am working on the basis that there is the danger I might learn something.

www.glencuanpointers.com
Des,
Some of the best hybrids I have flown have been males.Some flying as low as 1lb 8 oz. The trick really is to get them entered on juvenile gulls as there is not so much danger from the beak of the gull,as it is softer.By the time they then catch an adult gull they are very good at having the head and beak immobilised very quickly. A lot depends on the individual bird. I would certainly give it a try if I were you.If it catches one early as a confidence builder there may be no holding it back.

ATB,
Neil

[DesO'Neile]

Berkut.
It's actually two birds I am getting, one I will have to punt the other I will keep. I don't even know if I could really guess the temperament of a recently lifted bird but considering the intended use if there was a difference in size should I work on the principle that Might is Right and go for the big one.
Des

www.glencuanpointers.com

[Berkut]

Berkut.
It's actually two birds I am getting, one I will have to punt the other I will keep. I don't even know if I could really guess the temperament of a recently lifted bird but considering the intended use if there was a difference in size should I work on the principle that Might is Right and go for the big one.
Des

www.glencuanpointers.com

In my opinion spot on Des,more so for gulls.The bigger the better.I would say not quite so important for crows,a medium sized falcon would suffice.

ATB,
Neil

[DesO'Neile]

Once again thank you for the replies. Perhaps when I get the bird I can start a thread and use it to pick the brains of the more knowledgeable pursuit hawk specalists on the forum. I must say I am really looking forward to seeing the bird in the flesh and getting to grips with it.

www.glencuanpointers.com

[Sprout]

Have fun Des - took pup out today on stubble for the first time today - had fun - got some style to his running already!!! Oh, and went to puppy party last night and bettered everyone else!!!! Confident little pup.
There is a wealth of info on here regards crow hawks - listen to them for advice. Whatever happens, you'll have fun

[EddieT]

Its hard to put a categoric answer to this, but my feeling is that it was indeed something to do with the mentality of the bird. Maybe he was more complex mentally than i was ready to cope with in my first long wing

Des,

I was re-thinking about this point a lot over the weekend and i think I have not mentioned, or considered properly, probably the most significant reason why this gyr/saker had such issues with getting him fired for the quarry of choice . That is, that he was not taken from the pen until 26 weeks (6 months) old. He had been a rushed purchase in November brought on by the sad and sudden death of my previous bird.

6 months sitting in a pen had meant that much of the vital period of influence when a young bird learns all about hunting had been missed. Whilst sitting in a pen he had mentally developed without the vital experience of early exposure to quarry and when he was subsequently entered at such a late date he probably had already formed strong ideas on his capabilities without having learned any of this from experience in the hunting field.

Eddie

[DesO'Neile]

Having read my original question I think maybe I should have gone about it differently. It was maybe a bit insensitive of me to ask you to reply on open forum to a question where if you told the truth you would be possibly admitting an error on your part. Taking everything into account I fully appreciate your candid replies.