How to stop carrying?

[Barkai]

Exactly that.

Stephen

[OutFlying]

Carrying what and when ? and by which accipiter ?

[Kashai]

Exactly that.

Stephen

Call to lure with a very small titbit on it. Then call to the fist. On the other hand let the bird catch something heavy (sparrowhawk - pigeon, gos pheasant etc, and let him/her calm down on it, and eat a little bit, before you pick him/her up. after several quarry like that, the trust must come.

Practice these methods, and in some weeks sometimes the bird will stop carrying.

Thats my experience

Kashai

[Alf]

Good advice.
One thing you will sometimes get though and that’s when a hawk takes a small bird in free flight in most cases if taken in the air the hawk will carry, it may not carry far but it will carry to the nearest suitable cover.
What you have said might aide your approach though and this can stop further carrying meaning the hawk takes flight again with the quarry.
If he could it would be wise to tie small live birds down on short lengthens of twine let the hawk kill them if it takes a bird on the rise it will get pulled down if it tries to carry its just then a case of walking round the hawk getting it used to your approach on a kill and such, like you say with time it will come to trust you. Alf.


Call to lure with a very small titbit on it. Then call to the fist. On the other hand let the bird catch something heavy (sparrowhawk - pigeon, gos pheasant etc, and let him/her calm down on it, and eat a little bit, before you pick him/her up. after several quarry like that, the trust must come.

Practice these methods, and in some weeks sometimes the bird will stop carrying.

Thats my experience

Kashai

[Falconry Equipment International]

probably the only advice I can give apart from what has already been said . is to not allow it to happen in the 1st place

[Barkai]

Carrying what and when ? and by which accipiter ?

Sorry I had to rush off some where.

Carrying: Prey ppr anything that it catches of the fist.

Accipiter: Accipiter badius

When: After it has flown off the fist and has caught dead

Cheers,
Stephen

[Barkai]

Good advice.
One thing you will sometimes get though and that’s when a hawk takes a small bird in free flight in most cases if taken in the air the hawk will carry, it may not carry far but it will carry to the nearest suitable cover.
What you have said might aide your approach though and this can stop further carrying meaning the hawk takes flight again with the quarry.
If he could it would be wise to tie small live birds down on short lengthens of twine let the hawk kill them if it takes a bird on the rise it will get pulled down if it tries to carry its just then a case of walking round the hawk getting it used to your approach on a kill and such, like you say with time it will come to trust you. Alf.

Before I left on the trip he would carry the dead birds on to my hand for the reword I was wondering If I could get it to carry to my fist if that would work and how to do this.

Cheers,
Stephen

[Alf]

Stephen it’s my experience that wild game taken, the hawks don’t quite react like it would when a dead bird is offered not at least with sparrowhawks that is?
It’s hard for me to advise with a hawk like yours I have never flown a passage or haggard hawks like a spar before all my hawks are imprinted to some extent most were imprinted by me from 10 days old all antie carrying techniques were rammed home before the hawks could fly.
Even so in the early days I still get some form of carrying with my spars until they figure out what’s happening.
But never say never mate! All hawks are worlds apart one hawk might do something another might not.
My advise to you is to tread carefully on your approach to a hawk that has carried go in on your belly mate. Alf.



Before I left on the trip he would carry the dead birds on to my hand for the reword I was wondering If I could get it to carry to my fist if that would work and how to do this.

Cheers,
Stephen

[Ben C]

Also good weight control?

[Alf]

Ben weight control holds a big part but it won’t stop a hawk like a musket taking small birds mid air taking it to a place it feels safe to feed.
I think personally a spar only carries if it lifts again on your approach this is what I would term as carrying where the hawk lands after the initial bind and then lifts again.
Alf.


Also good weight control?

[JayB]

probably the only advice I can give apart from what has already been said . is to not allow it to happen in the 1st place

well thats not very helpful

[Mark Collins]

Carfull training ,in the early stages of training , i place food on the lure and wait until the bird has eaten it, then i tit bit the bird and encourage the bird to come to me, its all about taking your time, if you rush a bird then you get problems, manners are everything , i am flying a bird at the momment that wasnt reared or bred by me , he isnt a social imprint or a parent reared bird but in between , i know he will come good , but occationly he cops the hump , he sees me as a food rival and hackles up , and thinks about dragging a kill , the lure or bating off the fist with food, its just under the surface, i am at the momment trying him at differant weights to see how he reactes as its only become apparent with a bit of weight reduction.

[Alf]

Mark what type of hawk are you training? Alf

Carfull training ,in the early stages of training , i place food on the lure and wait until the bird has eaten it, then i tit bit the bird and encourage the bird to come to me, its all about taking your time, if you rush a bird then you get problems, manners are everything , i am flying a bird at the momment that wasnt reared or bred by me , he isnt a social imprint or a parent reared bird but in between , i know he will come good , but occationly he cops the hump , he sees me as a food rival and hackles up , and thinks about dragging a kill , the lure or bating off the fist with food, its just under the surface, i am at the momment trying him at differant weights to see how he reactes as its only become apparent with a bit of weight reduction.

[Alf]

Its great advice only problem is how you achieve this with a male haggard accipiter? Alf.

well thats not very helpful

[Falconry Equipment International]

well thats not very helpful

Funnily enough that is exactly what it was meant to be ( helpful I mean) I should have sated further though the best way to stop a certain behaviour is not to let it start in the 1st place, ie it is much harder to stop this than prevent it happening in the 1st place, with a haggard( I have only had one haggard and that wasa female German Gos when I was in my mid teens and luckily never had this problem. The was age advice before what I wrote and therefore I can only restate what I said before, I was not meaning to be conceited, clever or being defamatory. I hope this clears things up

[JayB]

Funnily enough that is exactly what it was meant to be ( helpful I mean) I should have sated further though the best way to stop a certain behaviour is not to let it start in the 1st place, ie it is much harder to stop this than prevent it happening in the 1st place, with a haggard( I have only had one haggard and that wasa female German Gos when I was in my mid teens and luckily never had this problem. The was age advice before what I wrote and therefore I can only restate what I said before, I was not meaning to be conceited, clever or being defamatory. I hope this clears things up

i see your point, but sometimes you can do it all and the bird will still carry but your right prevention is the best way

[Falconry Equipment International]

I should also add that when training an eyass( as I shall also do here with passage hawks when I get licences to do so) I introduce them too a a weighted lure wich is only ever swing to show movement and he lure is on the groundas soon as t the falcon leaves the assistants fist( I never fly from fence posts, for similar behavioural reasons. Not saying any of this is tight, just that it has worked with me including training and flying 8 merlins( notorius carriers) and I perhaps luckily have never had one. HTH

[Jack]

I think it only natural for smaller raptors to carry. They are low on the food chain themselves and must find a secure place to feed safely. In most cases, when they catch something on the wing they will continue into cover with it. They are not fleeing from you so much, just looking for security. They do not understand the concept of your protection. What I deem as carrying is when they fly off with something when you try to make in to them.
I have come to the conclusion that when a hawk starts this late in the training it is probably due to being high in weight. This is a fat hawk behavior. Snatching food and flying off with it. When I see one of my own hawks starting to look like they will carry I just cut them a tiny bit. Works most times. Early on training should include anti carry training with the lure. While lure training you can approach the hawk with tidbits or food on the fist. This can be reinforced at any time too. Just pin the lure down and have it loaded with food. Then approach the hawk from head on rather than from behind. If the hawk starts to turn, walk around to face it. Once you get close in get low and offer the additional reward on the fist or fingertips. The main thing is to make certain that it is not just the hawk being fat and sassy.

Jack

[Wapity]

yes Jack is esactly what I kow, but last year my gos never carry till she wos 1020 gr, she go under to 980 and she start carry:(
This year I start to flown at 970 gr an have put down for hunting brown hare to 920 gr and she alweis carring.
Now the temperature go down, and I encreasing the weight, I whant see if at higher weight she stop carring like last year, what do you thinks??

ciao Giacomo

[MusketMad]

when i was training my peregrines i found that in the early stages when introducing the lure was to throw it down on the floor and imediatly peg it down ..i used to use a small stainless peg ....the lure would then not move...the birds would sometimes try to drag it away but after realising they couldnt they would settle down pull in their wings and feed ...all the time i would be sitting a few feet away ...as soon as the food had gone i would pick up the bird with a titbit....this method has never failed me...if you are training an accipter to come back to the lure you could use exactly the same method

[MusketMad]

its funny ive always said to people when training a falcon never to let the falcon jump back to the block with the lure....so many people make this mistake and it always end up with a bird that carries:rolleyes::roll::D

[Casey]

when i was training my peregrines i found that in the early stages when introducing the lure was to throw it down on the floor and imediatly peg it down ..i used to use a small stainless peg ....the lure would then not move...the birds would sometimes try to drag it away but after realising they couldnt they would settle down pull in their wings and feed ...all the time i would be sitting a few feet away ...as soon as the food had gone i would pick up the bird with a titbit....this method has never failed me...if you are training an accipter to come back to the lure you could use exactly the same method

Spot on, Nigel.

Exactly what I do when training mine using carcases tied to the lure held to the ground by a tent peg. They do try to carry it off but soon realise that they don't get anything and give up eventually after a few attempts.

I think Alf and jack are also correct in that any small accipiter when catching a small easily carried prey on the wing will generally head off to find somewhere to eat, hopefully, in cover near you. This is natural behaviour and instinct. It is when it takes off again after hitting the deck with it's prey that is carrying, usually on your approach. Getting it used to the pegged lure and making in to it carefully will help.

Dare I say weight control? If the hawk is hungry enough, it should want to eat there and then. If it is too heavy it'll be thinking where it can take it rather than Eat Eat Eat

Hope this helps I'm going to be training my Musket to this so may have to eat my words:lol:

[Ben C]

If its a haggard then your in to very shaky waters in the first place.

I would perhaps also use lots of heavy bagged game until the fear has been reduced???

[SBFalconry]

Exactly that.

Stephen

I just get my mate to carry the ferrets and spade.Pmsl:lol:

[Gecko]

Even haggards can come round, it takes more time and WAY more work but it can be done. Last year I rehab a female Little Spar while out in Africa. I wont go into the day to day training but once out on the field she started to carry a little so I implermented 3 simple (I use that term lightly) methods. I've flown quite a lot of haggard birds over the years and this really did help, worked 8 out 10 times was this :

The weight control is vital, your scales should be accurate within 0.1g I've found with the smaller hawks; well with any hawk, this type of weight control is a must.

My hawks NEVER eat anything with out me or the missus (also a falconer) without being with them, either on the fist or in the case of a kill or carcass with one of us sitting next to them. That can take time, those of you with small hawks know just how long little birds take to eat, even if its all cut up!

Weight and training aside for a moment,TRUST is possibly the most important factor. Without that you can pretty much forget anything else. How you build up that trust is up to the individual but it really does help the carrying problem if your hawk trust you.

[Barkai]

Carfull training ,in the early stages of training , i place food on the lure and wait until the bird has eaten it, then i tit bit the bird and encourage the bird to come to me, its all about taking your time, if you rush a bird then you get problems, manners are everything , i am flying a bird at the momment that wasnt reared or bred by me , he isnt a social imprint or a parent reared bird but in between , i know he will come good , but occationly he cops the hump , he sees me as a food rival and hackles up , and thinks about dragging a kill , the lure or bating off the fist with food, its just under the surface, i am at the momment trying him at differant weights to see how he reactes as its only become apparent with a bit of weight reduction.

Hi Mark, this sounds great for a bird that you are flying to the lure but mine is a fist hawk.

[Barkai]

Its great advice only problem is how you achieve this with a male haggard accipiter? Alf.

Sorry, Mabe I did not make it clear but it is in juv. plumage (passage).

Cheers,
Stephen

[Barkai]

Even haggards can come round, it takes more time and WAY more work but it can be done. Last year I rehab a female Little Spar while out in Africa. I wont go into the day to day training but once out on the field she started to carry a little so I implermented 3 simple (I use that term lightly) methods. I've flown quite a lot of haggard birds over the years and this really did help, worked 8 out 10 times was this :

The weight control is vital, your scales should be accurate within 0.1g I've found with the smaller hawks; well with any hawk, this type of weight control is a must.

My hawks NEVER eat anything with out me or the missus (also a falconer) without being with them, either on the fist or in the case of a kill or carcass with one of us sitting next to them. That can take time, those of you with small hawks know just how long little birds take to eat, even if its all cut up!

Weight and training aside for a moment,TRUST is possibly the most important factor. Without that you can pretty much forget anything else. How you build up that trust is up to the individual but it really does help the carrying problem if your hawk trust you.



Hi,

In your aviator what bird is it? I see whe white rump and the only thing I can think of is Gabar, Chanting, or lizard buzzard.

Every one else this is a accipiter not a falco. And It is also a fist hawk.

What I would like to do is get it to learn to carry back to my fist which it was doing earlier in the training. I would also like to hunt larger stuff like doves and starlings. I gave it a Bagged pigeon that was twice as big as him and he went strait in and killed it. He tries to catch my lanner!!!

Cheers,
Stephen

[SSL]

Ben weight control holds a big part but it won’t stop a hawk like a musket taking small birds mid air taking it to a place it feels safe to feed.

Amen to that, after three kills I was glad he was a rehabber :lol:

[Ben C]

Hi,

I gave it a Bagged pigeon that was twice as big as him and he went strait in and killed it. He tries to catch my lanner!!!




Keep doing it until you can step over it and around...........I am no expert however.

[Barkai]

Keep doing it until you can step over it and around...........I am no expert however.

I think it is a problem with fear also.

Cheers,
Stephen

[Ben C]

It makes sense I suppose, the thing has no reason to 'like' you whatsoever at the moment.

If its any consolation my imprint spar carried once or twice.

[Mark Collins]

Mark what type of hawk are you training? Alf

Hi Alf its a pergrine hybred .

[Alf]

Mark I hear what your saying and with regards falcons this would work.
Hunting a small accipiter that takes even smaller birds in mid air flights don’t think it works quite that way.
Alf.

[Barkai]

Hi,
Today I put out a small bird (dead) with a tether of about a foot the shikra caught it and and never even touched the ground, It of course came down a foot away and and sat there I let him start to eat then i slowly approached with tid-bit and he just sat there.

The second time I did it he ame in caught it and landed.

Cheers,
Stephen

[Barkai]

I flew him while it was still cool and he was such a puff ball at least three inches across.

Cheers,
Stephen

[Ben C]

Mine snatched three or four times tonight and flew with the stuff into trees.........she was a BITCH.

Sounds to me like your making good progress........

[Alf]

Stephen keep doing this a few times until he no longer tries to lift with the tethered bird this is a great way to form a bridge in the hawks mind that he cant take off with game.
Might not work every time but it helps also with the approach, this is the one mate! Your hawk needs to know that its you that is coming, an unsure hawk will lift if it’s in cover if it hasn’t been taught before hand that the big guy coming into it making a lot of noise breaking twigs pushing aside leaves moving long grass is his friend.
Always whistle or talk to the hawk on your approach if you do this when he is on the tethered birds he will soon associate the whistle or your voice with the fact that its you that is coming in and will know its safe.
Personally if I could get them and I could use them I would use live birds like I say a hawk reacts differently to dead and live birds. Alf.


Hi,
Today I put out a small bird (dead) with a tether of about a foot the shikra caught it and and never even touched the ground, It of course came down a foot away and and sat there I let him start to eat then i slowly approached with tid-bit and he just sat there.

The second time I did it he ame in caught it and landed.

Cheers,
Stephen

[Ben C]

Stephen keep doing this a few times until he no longer tries to lift with the tethered bird this is a great way to form a bridge in the hawks mind that he cant take off with game.
Might not work every time but it helps also with the approach, this is the one mate! Your hawk needs to know that its you that is coming, an unsure hawk will lift if it’s in cover if it hasn’t been taught before hand that the big guy coming into it making a lot of noise breaking twigs pushing aside leaves moving long grass is his friend.
Always whistle or talk to the hawk on your approach if you do this when he is on the tethered birds he will soon associate the whistle or your voice with the fact that its you that is coming in and will know its safe.
Personally if I could get them and I could use them I would use live birds like I say a hawk reacts differently to dead and live birds. Alf.


And just keep doing it until its second nature...literally.:grin:

[Barkai]

Stephen keep doing this a few times until he no longer tries to lift with the tethered bird this is a great way to form a bridge in the hawks mind that he cant take off with game.
Might not work every time but it helps also with the approach, this is the one mate! Your hawk needs to know that its you that is coming, an unsure hawk will lift if it’s in cover if it hasn’t been taught before hand that the big guy coming into it making a lot of noise breaking twigs pushing aside leaves moving long grass is his friend.
Always whistle or talk to the hawk on your approach if you do this when he is on the tethered birds he will soon associate the whistle or your voice with the fact that its you that is coming in and will know its safe.
Personally if I could get them and I could use them I would use live birds like I say a hawk reacts differently to dead and live birds. Alf.

I will try but the only way to get live birds is for me to trap them any ideas on traps (that I can make without using wire or metal)?

I have not flown yet today but will soon so will post ho things are going.

I have lots of different whistles, one is the approaching trill and anouther is calling to fist and anouther is calling to lure (lure one is for my lanner).

About a week ago he just started to relies that the trill means that It is me and that I wont hurt him. Before it always was frantic bating when he saw anybody near. I always give him tid-bits on my approach witch helps I am sure.

Regards from Niger,
Stephen

[MusketMad]

i had a musket that would carry small birds all the time....its not a problem as long as you see where they land and you dont give them the time to start to put the food over ...i had one called keith...he would catch pipits and **** off up trees with them ..but after he had eaten them would fly striaght to the fist....no probs

[Gecko]

"i had a musket that would carry small birds all the time....its not a problem as long as you see where they land and you dont give them the time to start to put the food over ...i had one called keith...he would catch pipits and **** off up trees with them ..but after he had eaten them would fly striaght to the fist....no probs"

Musketmad, didn't you ever have problems with him self hunting??

The odd bit of carrying I can put up with but all the time, **** that!!

[MusketMad]

"i had a musket that would carry small birds all the time....its not a problem as long as you see where they land and you dont give them the time to start to put the food over ...i had one called keith...he would catch pipits and **** off up trees with them ..but after he had eaten them would fly striaght to the fist....no probs"

Musketmad, didn't you ever have problems with him self hunting??

The odd bit of carrying I can put up with but all the time, **** that!!not really mate ...a sparrowhawk is a bird of the fist and should not be hunted like out of trees etc ...so why should it self hunt.....most birds that start self hunting are birds that are allowed to follow on...thats what basically starts it off ....if you hunt a bird exclusively from the fist its not likely to happen

[Barkai]

My bird is so small that even if it did eat the hole bird it would not be very hungry.

Cheers,
Stephen

[Alf]

Nigel I wouldn’t hunt a younger spar out of trees but a well heeled hawk that knows the job not a problem, how many times in the course of a hunt has the spar landed on top of the bush that the quarry has just beaten it into how many times have I re flushed for the hawk that is perched up high on this hedge that can see either side of the hedge and can intercept no matter which way the bird breaks.
It’s just an extension of the hunt; toss a hawk up into a tree beat the hedge underneath for blackies if the hawk knows her job she knows what’s coming and wont stray far.
Alf.


not really mate ...a sparrowhawk is a bird of the fist and should not be hunted like out of trees etc ...so why should it self hunt.....most birds that start self hunting are birds that are allowed to follow on...thats what basically starts it off ....if you hunt a bird exclusively from the fist its not likely to happen

[MusketMad]

Nigel I wouldn’t hunt a younger spar out of trees but a well heeled hawk that knows the job not a problem, how many times in the course of a hunt has the spar landed on top of the bush that the quarry has just beaten it into how many times have I re flushed for the hawk that is perched up high on this hedge that can see either side of the hedge and can intercept no matter which way the bird breaks.
It’s just an extension of the hunt; toss a hawk up into a tree beat the hedge underneath for blackies if the hawk knows her job she knows what’s coming and wont stray far.
Alf.
Id say thats more of a put in .....if the bird has marked the quarry yeah i agree because the time youve retrieved the bird the quarry has made a dash for it...but i tend not to let them follow on as a rule as ive seen people lose them

[Alf]

Totally agree I have never tried the follow on with any spar but I will stick one up a tree above a hedge if I feel the days hunt is drawing closed.
When you have hunted the same spar for 6 years you tend to know the hawk and what you can and can’t do.
Mature hawks ones you know it’s amazing what you can get away with like hunting council estates in the middle of houses hunting alleyways gardens always confident of the instant response from your hawk from roof tops or chimneys.
A tree in the middle of a field well that’s nothing! Alf.


Id say thats more of a put in .....if the bird has marked the quarry yeah i agree because the time youve retrieved the bird the quarry has made a dash for it...but i tend not to let them follow on as a rule as ive seen people lose them

[Gecko]

not really mate ...a sparrowhawk is a bird of the fist and should not be hunted like out of trees etc ...so why should it self hunt.....most birds that start self hunting are birds that are allowed to follow on...thats what basically starts it off ....if you hunt a bird exclusively from the fist its not likely to happen

Musketmad,

Hello again mate, I think you mis-understood what I was trying to say. I've flown a lot of smaller hawks over the years and in the past some of my hawks have gottern into the vice of carrying and after a while because they bolted straight away with the food (dispite being hunted off the fist) they soon became very inderpendent and if they missed quarry off the fist they would continue to hunt and after a while a pattern of behaviour developes and the bird soon learns to self hunting.

[MusketMad]

Musketmad,

Hello again mate, I think you mis-understood what I was trying to say. I've flown a lot of smaller hawks over the years and in the past some of my hawks have gottern into the vice of carrying and after a while because they bolted straight away with the food (dispite being hunted off the fist) they soon became very inderpendent and if they missed quarry off the fist they would continue to hunt and after a while a pattern of behaviour developes and the bird soon learns to self hunting.I know people have had these sort of problems before ...ive actually spoke about it before on the forum on various threads...ive always said when flying accipiters its so important to have a couple of days a week just doing call offs with the bird to keep it intrested ..ive known a lot of people that have lost spars over the years (me included ) because they forget about the obidence work..having flown small hawks you will know how quickly they can revert to a wild state....my mate lost a fantastic coopers hawk because he just got greedy with his head count...very easy to do my friend...by the way i wasnt being condisending in my first post mate ...mabye i just worded it wrong ...sorry

[Casey]

Nigel,

Interesting to hear you refer to obedience work. Probably going slightly off topic, but do you do jump ups from a bow or call off's from a t-perch to the fist and a bit of lure work?? If not, what is your regime?

Chris

[FrootDog]

Just my 2 cents and I do not have much experience in this area. My imprint female coop (Accipiter cooperii) does not carry but a handfull of times a season and it is usually to the nearest cover. I do have a plan however for my passage female Sharpy (Accipiter striatus). I have just started lure training and while the bird eats from the lure I walk around and occasionally tidbit her while she eats on the lure. So far so good. My plan is to get her outside and once the response on the creance is good I will give her a few baggie sparrows that are tethered and do the same. Walk around her and tid bit her while she eats. This hopefully will prevent the problem and it will not become an issue.

[GriffMJ]

Weighted lure does the trick..... also the walking round advice is good as well... worked for me :D

[MusketMad]

Nigel,

Interesting to hear you refer to obedience work. Probably going slightly off topic, but do you do jump ups from a bow or call off's from a t-perch to the fist and a bit of lure work?? If not, what is your regime?

Chrisdont use a lure for my spars as i think personally its a waste of time...when you are out in a field and the grass is three foot high a lure on the ground isnt a lot of cop..thats me though ..stuck in my ways:rolleyes:however jump ups are a must for me and i normally put a bow perch at the bottom of the stairs and fly them up to the top ...i also stand on top of my van and jump them up...:-D

[Barkai]

I know people have had these sort of problems before ...ive actually spoke about it before on the forum on various threads...ive always said when flying accipiters its so important to have a couple of days a week just doing call offs with the bird to keep it intrested ..ive known a lot of people that have lost spars over the years (me included ) because they forget about the obidence work..having flown small hawks you will know how quickly they can revert to a wild state....my mate lost a fantastic coopers hawk because he just got greedy with his head count...very easy to do my friend...by the way i wasnt being condisending in my first post mate ...mabye i just worded it wrong ...sorry

Does your spar catch every chase cause if not the it gets a lot of call offs then.

[Tasha55403]

With a passage accipiter tidbitting on the lure and kills, even on the perch at home really does wonders. Especially when combined with the whistle and frequent making in and walking around the bird. It makes the hawk look forward to your approach rather than being fearful. My passage coop loved the tidbits and would take them happily while plucking his kill-they were less work for him.

[FredrickFogg]

dont use a lure for my spars as i think personally its a waste of time...when you are out in a field and the grass is three foot high a lure on the ground isnt a lot of cop..thats me though ..stuck in my ways:rolleyes:however jump ups are a must for me and i normally put a bow perch at the bottom of the stairs and fly them up to the top ...i also stand on top of my van and jump them up...:-D

When doing jump ups, does the bird fly back down the stairs to the perch or to the perch from the top of the van? Just wondering, as I do what I call jump downs to resolve this. I toss a tidbit to the ground and then call the bird back up to the fist for a tidbit and then eventually not give any tidbit when it comes back to the fist. It works wonders with my coops, teaches her she has to fly off the fist to get food and to come back to get another flight for food.

Fred