..

[Kevin Massey]

pics were deleted

[Kevin Massey]

pics were deleted

[Adam Barrett]

my harris has a intent dislike for barbies-its the best way to entertain her for a hour or two!its good practise for getting her of kills tho i surpose

[Miguel Gomez]

my harris tried killing a cat toy that looked like a mouse, after that she kept going for rats, might have been a coincedence....

[ChicM]

I had a FHH who HATED...crowbars!

[IAmTheWeasel]

I have a stuffed RT toy that screams when squezed via an electronic recording inside it....She nailed it off of the entertainment center one day when I let her get too close to it....I actually had to transfer her off of it like a real quarry....When she grabbed it, it made a scream and she would clamp down harder making it scream more....never ending cycle ........She had begun to pluck it when I decided to transfer her off of it.... :roll:


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v699/Iamtheweasel/100-0071_IMG.jpg

[TimberDog]

My little man prfers mops and will not let go!!

[Gaz]

How do the birds see all this??are they kept in the house??...just wondered :?:

[TimberDog]

Mine come in on cadge


more social imprints

[Will]

When I first saw this topic, I thought 'thank god I'm not the only one'! Then I realised all your birds are trying to kill everything and mine just wants to cuddle. It's a stupid little multi-coloured dolphin and I totally blame my wife, but what the hell, he's happy! :)

[Kevin Massey]

gaz,

in ferns case , that devil dog belongs to perry my springer.
the first time it happened was when i bought her into weigh before going lamping,
put her on the scales and she was off again and on that thing....perry has loads of cudlies in his basket and when i have to bring her indoors to weigh her i find it easier to drag the basket out of sight

[Varmint]

Toys are great so long as we all understand that they might be occasions when your bird may be in public company with small Kids and fluffy toys ect?

I wont go into too much detail, but my youngest daughter was taken in the head and face by "some ones" female Harris late last year.

She was walking down from my house to her friends and the bird was being shown off to me 700 yds away in a wood when it just took off?

Next thing i heard was intense screaming and it makes me weak and shiver just remembering the noise of my own daughter in what can only be descibed as agony!

I belted over there to find her on the ground with a female HH bound firmly (up to it's toes deep) in her head and face??

If it wasnt for my own experience things could have been much worse, but i managed after 10 minutes to get it off, Hospital, stitches, strong anti biotics and life long facial scarring......

The Falconer conserned still refuses to have this bird put to sleep, which really is the only option for a bird with this mentallity???

She has loved and been around BOP all her life and realises this bird was an exception to the norm, but sadly will not walk anywhere on her own now.

My daughter is emotionally and physically scarred for life, cause someone who really didnt know what he was doing got his hands on a HH and Fcked it up?

Thats just one of the reasons im posting to newbies now, cause i dont want to ever hear or see this again in my lifetime.

Toys are great interest items for birds, but be careful which toys and how they could be wrongly interpreted by your bird.

Look at the beautifull little girls face and think a bit more Guys and Galls?

[TimberDog]

Varm

Agreed point taken :oops:

[Kevin Massey]

fern only ever had the opportunity twice then it was sorted, not because of the points raised above but more in-case she dived in at perry when he had it in his mouth.

i did original post the pics thinking it was funny....... but now i feel bad, and i will remove them now !!!
i for one will be more switched on now in what i do and what i expose my birds to.
i do know how it feels to having Mathew my son ( you met him) nailed in the head by a female Harris, and he was only looking at the Bird through a set of binno's, the end results were no where as bad as your daughters in any way.

Kevin

[ChicM]

I think that we all forget how dangerous these birds can be when they get cranked up about something. Timely reminder for us all here I think...

[The Late Lord Lucan]

Varmint wrote.......(snip)
If it wasnt for my own experience things could have been much worse, but i managed after 10 minutes to get it off....................The Falconer conserned still refuses to have this bird put to sleep, which really is the only option for a bird with this mentallity
You are obviously a very patient and restrained chap varmint, personally, in the heat of the moment, I would have removed the choice from the birds owner.
A bird clamped on to a childs face while I am in the vicinity is not going to get the chance to do it again. I couldn't handle a ten minute struggle of trying to remove it.......it's head is coming away from it's neck.
That goes for any child and any bird, my own included.
If an incident like this happens through general stupidity of the owner/handler, I must admit, I am not very 'diplomatic' with them either.

Regards,
Lucky.

[Bubo]

thanks varmint for that post and i cant believe how close that scar is to your daughter's eye. I am not surprised you took your time. She is a beautiful little girl thank god those scars ended there. that is definately something to think about and quite frankly it is not something i have thought about. kadabra is a pest for anything that will crackle (especially sweet papers) i'm definately going to keep an eye on that! Your post was a major wake up call thanks varmint!!
bubo

[IAmTheWeasel]

Sounds alot likt this bird was more of a human imprint that a chamber raised bird.....They have a tendancy to do this when imprinted. A doctor who bred HH tried this many years ago and most of the birds where put to sleep due to aggessive natures....One such incident was when a harris took a young girl off of her bicycle by latching to her head.......That harris was put down soon after.

[Miguel Gomez]

well that is certainly putting me right off the idea of getting a hawk. I think i will just stick to my owls :shock:
bubo

[Varmint]

The bird in question guys was a 100% parent hatched a reared HH in her third season.

The guy who trained her shall remain nameless and has promised never to free fly her again.(and if i here he has i will go and shoot her myself)

Your right Lucky the first thing i wanted to do was rip her head off, but her owner burts in to tears next to me and went to pieces, so i was on my own as far as getting her off was conserned, i took my time to try to avoid further damage cause the scars on her scalp are far, far worse!

I had all sorts of thoughts and emotions wheeling thru my mind?,
I got it off took her in my arms and ran!

This is an isolated incident, but i posted it to give a few people food for thought about these birds?

I love HH both as a species, and as personalities but sometimes little games we play with them can have far, far deeper implications in their minds.

We get this species so tame and friendly, but familiarity breeds contempt and some birds get so used to us that in the wrong hands and at far too low weights they can start to become aggresive especially to what may seem a smaller target like a child or dog.

Some of this behaviour can materialise thru territoriality, sexual frustation, bad breeding but most thru bad training?

If your bird whacks your dog, its only a small step to whacking a child?

I have seen 5 HH's in the last 12 months that i would deem to be very, very dangerous, all were PR that had to be cranked so low, they were just plain desperate and nasty.

We got to try to educate folks about this species more and get them to realsie that yes they can become very, very tame and friendly but they can also become over familiar and eventually a potential liability.

HH are not a walk in the park.

So we must try to understand a read our birds better, training correctly rather than ripping weight off and simulate a natural healthy life of flying and hunting.

Why have a bird cranked down and wound up and only fly it one day a week? weekend birds? what the Fck is a weekend bird?

Food for thought?

Finally i would like to add that to her credit, Bethan came out the next day, stitches and all and flew one of my boys, Tears welled up in my eye's!

It's not just HH, it could be any large Buteo, you are flying a predator who can inflict some seriouse damage, you have to be ultra responsible.

So start to show a bit more respect to these predators folks and don't be the fool who gets this sport banned thru poor bird ownership and training?

[Falconer]

Varmint
This is a valuable piece of information I'm sure all us falconers can learn from
although it must pain you to even think about it .
I also agree with the others and it should be destroyed.
I do hope that your daughter can put this behind her and hopefully become as well respected within falconry as her farther.

[Gaz]

you are flying a predator who can inflict some seriouse damage, you have to be ultra responsible.
This is the one wich i tell to newbies up the club and people say,im mean!!
"remember it aint a pet,its a killing machine,no matter what you think of it,it dont "love" you,it dont particully want to be with you,the only reason it tolerates you is FOOD,i could take it off you now,and tommorow it will come to me..respect this..or get a parrot" tight in i?? The defination of :( complacency is pain & tears

[Shaun Byrne]

Scarey stuff Varmint!! I had a similar one on a field meet once. A big female Red, well known for being unpredictable smacked my mates wife in the back of the head, one full set in her scalp and the other in the back of her neck. Me and another lad dived in and got a leg each but before we could do anything another lad grabbed it by the head and killed it. This may not have been the thing to do as both feet knotted up with the shock; so you probably did the right thing.

[ChicM]

I've had one highly aggressive FHH that attacked a female pal and one that was unpredictable around kids. Not nice. Not nice at all.

But then, I also had a doberman bitch that had her moments too. Dogs can be just as unpredictable but it seems that it is perhaps more acceptable to euthanase a biting dog?

[IAmTheWeasel]

What I always tell people that ask if it's my pet bird is that If I fell over dead in the field, she would be more likely to eat me rather than in anyway remorseful of my demise. They are not pets and like Gaz said, they are killing machines.....no more, no less.......The thing about HH's is thet by nature, they "bond" with like species as a means of survival, even if they are parent reared, they can and do sometimes become Family associated with the falconer as they aid in it's survival. In the wild, they will fiercly defend their territory and the same goes for other humans coming into thier "territory" when they are captive bred. This is one of the reasons why attacks happens like the ones noted here. They are simply defending from whatever they consider a threat, be it a small dog or a small child. I won't say it is not from hunger or hormones either as these can simply add to the issue, nor will I dare say that all HH are like this....remember that all birds have their own personalities and learned behaviors so we really don't have a good indicator about which bird will or will not do these things....Best thing to do is avoid the possibilities for such encounters to happen if even the slightest hint of danger is evident......Complacency is our worst enemy much of the time......

[The Late Lord Lucan]

H4wka wrote...This may not have been the thing to do as both feet knotted up with the shock;

Sure they may well have done, but it's a whole lot easier removing a dead bird than a live one. After a few seconds, when it goes limp, it will have no choice but to let go.
I know from experience that if you have a female Red or even to a good extent a FHH, if it doesn't want to let got, it aint gonna let go.
On the subject of putting your hand around the birds head, sure, that generally works, sometimes you have to apply a good amount of pressure before it works, if it always worked first time, instantly, then I wouldn't recommend pulling it's head off, but it doesn't always work.....
as the very sad story involving Varmint's daughter is testomony to.

Regards,
LLL.

[Wightwings]

just found this thread so sorry for the late post.

The Falconer conserned still refuses to have this bird put to sleep, which really is the only option for a bird with this mentallity???

totally agree

the only Toy my birds have ever had is a tennis ball, but used more as an interest for the imprint longwings.

the only toys your hunting birds should need are small furry longeared one........ :twisted:

[Kevin Massey]

i bought this one back up as its kind of relevent to a recent thread but different if you see what i mean.... the first to posts on this thread were of my harris attacking a childrens toy.....the subsequent thread that followed made me realise so i deleted the pics


....thought i would go this route rather than go off topic on another thread

[SSL]

i bought this one back up as its kind of relevent to a recent thread but different if you see what i mean.... the first to posts on this thread were of my harris attacking a childrens toy.....the subsequent thread that followed made me realise so i deleted the pics


....thought i would go this route rather than go off topic on another thread

Well done Kev,

I never saw this first time around, it ought to open a fews eyes... :supz:

[Kevin Massey]

cheers steve

i edited the first two posts today...however the pics were removed way back then

kev

[NorthenEnglandHawker]

what varmint was saying is what happens to all harrises at 3 years old if they havent been hunted at all or properly something in there head just goes and all the pend up aggression is aimed at humans they start hunting us sorry 2 hear about your daughter m8 newbies need to be told that a hh isnt a pet no bop is and it needs to hunt to try and prevent this happening

[KillaZ_Eyes]

I agreee with all that has been said, but have to ask this question. Apologies if this is a dumb questions to those in the know but...

Does a BoP have pressure points at the feet level that can be pressed to create a reaction..IE, Release grip? If so, this could help in those situations.. Again, I only ask as I dont know, but maybe someone could comment

Thanks

[IAmTheWeasel]

Toys are great so long as we all understand that they might be occasions when your bird may be in public company with small Kids and fluffy toys ect?

I wont go into too much detail, but my youngest daughter was taken in the head and face by "some ones" female Harris late last year.

She was walking down from my house to her friends and the bird was being shown off to me 700 yds away in a wood when it just took off?

Next thing i heard was intense screaming and it makes me weak and shiver just remembering the noise of my own daughter in what can only be descibed as agony!

I belted over there to find her on the ground with a female HH bound firmly (up to it's toes deep) in her head and face??

If it wasnt for my own experience things could have been much worse, but i managed after 10 minutes to get it off, Hospital, stitches, strong anti biotics and life long facial scarring......

The Falconer conserned still refuses to have this bird put to sleep, which really is the only option for a bird with this mentallity???

She has loved and been around BOP all her life and realises this bird was an exception to the norm, but sadly will not walk anywhere on her own now.

My daughter is emotionally and physically scarred for life, cause someone who really didnt know what he was doing got his hands on a HH and Fcked it up?

Thats just one of the reasons im posting to newbies now, cause i dont want to ever hear or see this again in my lifetime.

Toys are great interest items for birds, but be careful which toys and how they could be wrongly interpreted by your bird.

Look at the beautifull little girls face and think a bit more Guys and Galls?I have heard of the same thing happening here in the states...once....It was one of the first full imprint harris's and it too latched onto a young girls face. I don't think it had anything to do with toys, but more the fact that the bird was improperly raised.

[LanczSpringer]

We get this species so tame and friendly, but familiarity breeds contempt and some birds get so used to us that in the wrong hands and at far too low weights they can start to become aggresive especially to what may seem a smaller target like a child or dog.


If your bird whacks your dog, its only a small step to whacking a child?

I have seen 5 HH's in the last 12 months that i would deem to be very, very dangerous, all were PR that had to be cranked so low, they were just plain desperate and nasty.

We got to try to educate folks about this species more and get them to realsie that yes they can become very, very tame and friendly but they can also become over familiar and eventually a potential liability.

HH are not a walk in the park.

It's not just HH, it could be any large Buteo, you are flying a predator who can inflict some seriouse damage, you have to be ultra responsible.

So start to show a bit more respect to these predators folks and don't be the fool who gets this sport banned thru poor bird ownership and training?


I also missed this post first time around!

Some very interesting and relevant point there Varmint!

Hope your daughter is OK now, seems like she is if she got back up the next day to fly a bird!

Any responsible owner, of any animal should take heed of its behaviours, and if nessasary take appropriate steps to ensure the risk is removed!

If this means the bird is not flown again, then that is what must happen, Once is a warning, second time is pushing its luck and there should not be a third time.

Keep an eye on your hawks behaviour!

[Harrisii]

I love HH both as a species, and as personalities but sometimes little games we play with them can have far, far deeper implications in their minds.


TOO TRUE.

I am very sorry indeed to read about the incident with your Daughter Varmint, really am.
it makes me cringe to the full reading such horror stories.
i hope and pray she makes a full recovery, both phisically and mentally.
best wishes, H.

[Kevin Massey]

please remember this is a thread from over 18 months ago...

[Hells99]

This is a very disturbing (but instructional) thread - a lot of people talk about toys for their birds but I (and I'm not alone, I think) didn't even think of the implications that have been pointed out here. Varmint, I'm sorry about your little girl but thank you for telling it on here - it's certainly made me think. Helen

[Hardcore Hawker]

IMHO Birds of prey should not be given toys of any type they should only be encouraged to take appropriate species of quarry during the hunting season pure and simple. Also i believe people over man thier birds spending too much time with this part of training really does breed contempt on the part of the bird it has no respect for you because there is no fear on the part of the bird at all. All of my birds are manned only sufficiently to get them out in the field doing what they should be doing killing game. None of the birds i have flown over the years would come to any one but me however large the reward because they only have trust in me and are not handed round like some sort of rabbit at the petting zoo i like my hawks to retain a certain amount of independance and wildness which is after all what draws me to them in the first place this is only a personnal preference. Also aggresive birds should be euthanised as what life is it for them to not be flown and hunted.

[Moses]

Toys are great so long as we all understand that they might be occasions when your bird may be in public company with small Kids and fluffy toys ect?

I wont go into too much detail, but my youngest daughter was taken in the head and face by "some ones" female Harris late last year.

She was walking down from my house to her friends and the bird was being shown off to me 700 yds away in a wood when it just took off?

Next thing i heard was intense screaming and it makes me weak and shiver just remembering the noise of my own daughter in what can only be descibed as agony!

I belted over there to find her on the ground with a female HH bound firmly (up to it's toes deep) in her head and face??

If it wasnt for my own experience things could have been much worse, but i managed after 10 minutes to get it off, Hospital, stitches, strong anti biotics and life long facial scarring......

The Falconer conserned still refuses to have this bird put to sleep, which really is the only option for a bird with this mentallity???

She has loved and been around BOP all her life and realises this bird was an exception to the norm, but sadly will not walk anywhere on her own now.

My daughter is emotionally and physically scarred for life, cause someone who really didnt know what he was doing got his hands on a HH and Fcked it up?

Thats just one of the reasons im posting to newbies now, cause i dont want to ever hear or see this again in my lifetime.

Toys are great interest items for birds, but be careful which toys and how they could be wrongly interpreted by your bird.

Look at the beautifull little girls face and think a bit more Guys and Galls?


thats sad that so close to the eye as well,glad she was ok mate

[Harrisii]

please remember this is a thread from over 18 months ago...

i dont think time makes a difference in this case mass.
the points are stern.

[Kevin Massey]

i dont think time makes a difference in this case mass.
the points are stern.

i agree ...made the statement as some posts made me feel that members were replying as if the thread was opened recently thats all

[Kevin Massey]

Mick I removed the pics and edited the title back then

[MickeyDredd]

Cheers Kev