Do you think owls are stupid!

[Albie]

This is an Image of Finley and he is far from stupid..

[Artyruss]

Hi Nimbus

Finley looks like a cracker.

Well i have trained quite a few and on the whole I'd have to say yes, especially Barn owls. I think the only exception i have had dealings with are the eagle owls. They still vary but I did train one many years ago who was very switched on, but his sister was as thick as two short panks.

They are very good looking birds. How old is Finley he looks in great shape.

Russ

[Bubo]

Finley is gorgeous. Is he a turkmenian? He looks very light in colour.


people only say they are stupid because they are comparing them to something else, ususally themselves.(and no smart remarks or thoughts about owls not being stupid compared to me!!! :lol: )
We cant hunt in pitch darkness or even pinpoint a shrew under feet of snow???? that would mean we are stupid compared to them :lol:
they dont have a high concentration span that is for sure as anything will distract them.

Their brains werent made for being taught to fly to fists so i think that they are doing ok dealing with things out of their speciality. It may just take a while but you should see what i'm like when poor jester sits there for hours explaining how to resize pictures. Hope you lot are still awake after reading this :P
bubo

[Wightwings]

in short YES.
nice bird tho Nimbus, but the truth is owls ar dumb. a large part of their head is given over to the eyes for obviuos reasons and they only have small head under all theta feather.
sorry owls lovers out there but dumb they are

[Hawkmaster]

From the point of view of DUMB, yes from the stand that we compare them to hawks, falcon etc. as already mentioned.

From what they can do No they are not!

But lets look at what makes they seem not as good or intelligent?
Firstly, their eye sight close up is poor and therefore things take longer.
Secondly, their brains are smaller because as already posted 75% is eyes and what is left is mainly mouth and not much left for thinking cells.

The best flying owl I have seen is Finely pictured above, trained by Albie, he will come to the fist over 800 foot the instant his name is called and flys stong and full of powerful determination, a rare thing with an owl after a while.

Maybe he is just very clever for an owl, maybe an owl genius? lol

All that said, are they just REALLY wise old owls and taking us falconers for a ride?

[Wightwings]

i really have to say tho Finley is gorgeuos mate. :D

[Albie]

Many thanks for your comments so far.
I bought Finley in the year 2000 for £150-00 when he was an egg with his "mum" sitting on him.
I was told that the price of £150 was because when hatched he would be like his parents Blond Bengal Eagle Owls.
I was taken to the breeding aviary and allowed to go in and photograph the Hen sitting on the eggs and her Mate standing nearby.
And as you can see he turned out a handsome Owl.
I will post some early pics of him when I get time.
Albie.. :wink:

[Johnny]

My owls great a bit slow sometimes ,but get his weight right he,ll follow on and fly a few hundred foot , me kids love him and me wife would never let anything happen to him ,
As for flying in the dark yo cant beat them .
They are a bit like forest gump ,but look where he got he ended up getting 14 oscars .
Variety is the spice of life ?
All the best
johnny

[Jiff]

johnny you ever heard the saying wise owl,it's very true but when thrust into a situation i suppose they can only get as wise as theire teacher mate :lol:

[Johnny]

mine flies in the dark around the estate keeping the torch on him and calling him to the fist ,
Bat man eat your heart out
xxxxxx
Johnny lol

[Jester]

sometimes Jester seems to be really smart :D





and sometimes he seems as thick as a very thick thing taking thick tablets :?

concentration span isnt too briliant though :shock:

[Trigger]

I always found Barns to be one of the smarter owls. My mackinder is too smart for her own good. My Great grey turns into a complete idiot at the sight of an areoplane! My Tawny is not too bright (at any time of the day!) And although now 7 years old and flown most days he still insists on landing on your elbow and running down to your fist!

[Superfly]

Unless of course, you move your arm at the last minute like some people I know :P
Mind you, this does take years of finely honed practice, seeing people who turn up for lessons panic as this little owl makes a bee-line (or is that owl-line?) for their elbow is a good laugh!

[Lanner_Man]

i don't think owls are tht daft, a few time when out flying my barny, he automatically switched into an instant hunter. i hadn't given any training (to hunt) but he still figured out tht those little rustling noises in the grass was food. and hes managed to catch a few mice now, since all it has taken to get him goin properly is some dummy mouse twitching it in the grass, but i am also lucky as there is a bit of woodland very near by which is full of mice, you can see them running everywhere. i just sit him on a post to give him some practice, simple.

[Bubo]

i have come to conclude that the concentration is not the problem! their hearing and eyesight is so acute that it picks up the tiniest sound and movement is immediately picked up. I can certainly say my kadabs is highly intelligent.

a bit on the silly side but definately not stupid

[Superfly]

i have come to conclude that the concentration is not the problem!
hehe - you ain't met some of our owls :P The only thing I know with a shorter attention span is my Black Lab, he can be half-way to his toy and get totally sidetracked - and this from a field champion lineage! :lol:

As I'm sure someone else here will attest - some of our owls are more concerned about what is already flying than doing it themselves. ;)

You've never heard of the Owl Hunting Predatory glider Plane I'll wager hehe...

[Jester]

Jester definitely knows what a buzzard is :|

sometimes we are out and there can be a buzzard soaring away off in the distance and that will be the end of any flying. All he wants to do is puff himself up and stare at it. He isnt even interested in flying to me even for a whole chick :roll:

[Jester]

that pic was just before he tried to jump on a rottweillers nose but he does the same thing when he sees a buzzard in the distance.

[Superfly]

hehe - Apache just goes into mortal decline ;)

[IAmTheWeasel]

Hahahaha....I love that picture! I wonder how all eagle owls know to display that way even as imprints.

[Jester]

Yeah and you should have seen him try to display while he was still grey and fluffy with only the beginnings of primaries.

[Wightwings]

NAAAAAAAAAAAAA they are all dumb.....he he :rolleyes: Its basic instinct to go after something ruttling in the grass.. :roll: :D there heads are to full of eyes and ears to contain any size of brain

[IAmTheWeasel]

If Bird dog would get on here, He could tell you the exact mass of brain they have as compared to other birds.

[IAmTheWeasel]

If Bird dog would get on here, He could tell you the exact mass of brain they have as compared to other birds. I don't think that it's because of the size of their brains, but more of what the brain is geared to focus on. Such as vision and hearing for an owl more than anything else. JMHO

[Wightwings]

dumb ***** Weasel simple as......... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :lol:

(come on Bubo bite......... :twisted: )

[Bubo]

nah i know you lot too well now :wink: though i must admit there were times i used to seeth after some posts and even getting into bed i would still moan and grumble about them hahahahahahaha.


bubo

[Bubo]

that is a good point though about the brain. it was something that interested me so i checked up on the brain/eye ratio!! great stuff.

[Wightwings]

:D :D

[IAmTheWeasel]

OK, I will put it simple...they are dumb..... :rolleyes: :wink:

[Wightwings]

pmsl.... :lol:

[Isaac]

I saw a barn owl over here in Japan that was trained to beat people at rock, paper, siccors. It had three perches with the different symbols on each one and would fly to which ever one beat you (i.e. you show siccors it flew to rock). Don't know if that was intelligence or just good training but I was impressed. Any ideas on how it was trained to do that?

[Jack Merlin]

Don't know about owls but there have been some famous similar performers, mostly dogs or horses.

I republished a book called "Dog Breaking" first published in 1845 that was written by a Colonel in the cavalry a few years ago. (It is now out of print again). It was full of interesting stuff like that, also lots (of course) on training various breeds of gundogs.

He explained that the horse/dog took its cue from the body language of the handler. Animals are much better at picking up such signals than we are. That's the only explanation I can give you. I assume the owl was rewarded for going to the "correct" perch? That would reinforce its actions.

It is well known that hawks and falcons are quick to pick up on slight actions of the falconer, e.g. putting a hand into the bag to produce the lure, etc. So why not owls? BTW, these actions of the falconer do not have to be conscious or intended.

[Jester]

Jesters food is kept in old margarine tubs in the kitchen when it is defrosting and now every time he hears the tub being opened (or even a tub of marg from the fridge) he appears from the enclosed part of the aviary and stands on the front perch looking in expectantly and does a little sort of dance when the tub appears at the window.

hmmmmmmmmm pretty good hearing

[Bubo]

yep i would say, that each action was associated with a certain perch. my garage is adjacent to my kitchen. his freezer and grub is in the garage and when he is hungry he comes in from his aviary, into the kitchen and will wait by the door!! i did have a little box nailed on the door for bits of paper, letters etc but he sat on it and broke it grrrrr. so now he has to wait by the door. it is a great way to know when he is ready to go out and do some work hehehe.

[Jester]

HMMMMMMM i think is a cat you have and not an owl Bubo.

coming inside and hanging around the food place is a cat thing :lol:

[Bubo]

he is just my little bundle of love in a fluffy feathery barny coat

that should get weasle going!! :lol:

[IAmTheWeasel]

:roll: :vom: :wink:

[Jester]

:lol: :lol:

[Wightwings]

pmsl................. :lol:

[Bird_Dog]

Are Owls Smart? Do you want them to be? That is the question. Some researchers argue that the larger the ration of brain to body size indicated level of intelligence. Taxonomic differences in the ratio are clear with mammals having the largest encephalization among the animal kingdom. I have some unpublished data on raptor brain and body size. In birds, smaller birds have an advantage. Brains in large birds probably are constrained in size by flight and metabolic limitations. Of the species I've measured, the screech owl has the largest brain to body weight ratio. The skull and therefore the brain of barn owls is somewhat different that the horned owl species. I believe that the optic tectum (the part of the brain that processes visual input) and the cerebellum are smaller in owls than hawks/falcons. The eye size in great-horned owls is close to the weight of its brain, approx. 15 gr. But the owl eye has a bony ring structure that hawk eye don't. My graph shows that while the slopes of the regression line are not significantly different, a difference does occur in the intercept. Basically owls have larger brains than hawks at any given body weight. This preliminary data is part of an ongoing study which uses salvaged specimens. I'm fully licensed to conduct such research.

-- BIRD-DOG

[Bubo]

that is really interesting bird dog! cheers mate!!
bubo

[Wightwings]

very interesting and a nice graph...........but is that alla fancy way of saying they may be dumb?

or just speculative data

[Bird_Dog]

Measuring animal intelligence isn't easy. Read Stephen Gould's book "the mismeasurement of man"... I do know that differences in intelligence we presume to know are often based on outdated scientific concepts. If you look at a bird brain it doesn't appear to have a cortex, but other structures are now known to be functionally the same as the mammal cortex. Another measure of intelligence in the animal kingdom is tool use. Do Owls or hawks/falcons use simple tools? I've heard that peregrines are less intelligent than gyrs - what's that based on? Probably won't find a difference between the brains, tho. If a species is intelligent, then wouldn't if be more unethical to keep it in captivity? :?: :)


BIRD_DOG

[Falconry Equipment International]

:evil: :vom: :evil: :vom: :rolleyes: :butthead: :yawinkle:

[Goldie]

right all you people, turn your parrots loose :twisted: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Bubo]

people say owls are dumb but compared to what? to the human being, they are extremely clever in their own right. different species means different specific talents!
bubo

[Boobook]

..Another measure of intelligence in the animal kingdom is tool use. Do Owls or hawks/falcons use simple tools?...

Owls have been known to use tools - how about a 'lure'..
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/09/0901_040901_owl_poop.html

And how about sign making.. http://www.apogeephoto.com/sept2001/owl4.jpg :wink:

[Bubo]

that is very VERY interesting thanks alot for that!! hmmm not so sure about the sign though, there are many malicious people out there and it may just attract them.

[Boobook]

if you want to be really impressed watch this corvid bend a piece of straight wire into a hook to lift a bucket of food out of a tube...

http://users.ox.ac.uk/~kgroup/trial7_web.mov

:shock:


Web site is here: http://users.ox.ac.uk/~kgroup/tools/tools_main.shtml

[Hawkmaster]

Damn!!! Good link!

[Bubo]

damn this pc wont pick it up but the site looks good. cheers

[Spirited]

Can't be that dumb as they are not extinct :wink:

[GDN]

Sorry joining this thread late.

I am of the opinion that it depends on the owl. I have a tawny owl who it took 2 weeks to work out that there was a fence in his flight path back to the centre. He would start from about 50m away and fly in a clear straight line to the area where the gate used to be and crash in to the fence (did that twice) or swerve at lat minute land on the ground and look a bit confused. He has sussed it now. He lands on the ground crawls under the fence then flies to his aviary. My barn owl he sussed it straight away he would just fly over the fence. No problem. As for my 2 eagle owls they sussed it as well. For my turkmanian it wasn't a problem. I shout "heel" he lands on the ground next to my feet and walks back in to his aviary. I then say "log" he jumps on his log and waits for me to throw the food in with him. He seems quite clever. Not sure how i got him to do it. My European just flies back to the enterence of his aviary and sits waiting for me to put the food in his aviary then he will go in. My opinion - depnds on the species. Tawnys thick.

There is an article in this weeks cage and aviary where it says that crows could be just as intelligent as apes even though their brain structure is different. It also goes on to talk about how crows in different areas make tools slightly different that this could be some sort of cultural difference between different groups.

[Wightwings]

sorry bubo but as much as i think owls are what they are the truth is they are not that clever. Most of the above stories and the others you hear are all about instinct and conditioning. ANY animal will understand a routine that eventually provides a reward.It does not mean it is clever. Owls are what they are and limited in the brian box dept.

[Bubo]

WW i think i am going to have to admit defeat!! I agree they are not einsteins and that a lot of it is down to instinct and conditioning reflexes.

But.... you cant call them stupid, just slow learners :P (that way i'm kept happy)

[Wightwings]

:goodman:

[Bubo]

cheers WW now i feel really happy :P :wink:

[Wightwings]

:D when your happy bubs i am :D

[Bubo]

:wink: :P

[Superfly]

I always tell folks who ask at the centre - owls are only as smart as they need to be :wink: .. Even then, there are those I have my doubts about! :P

[Colohen]

A uncle of mine had a problem with some tihing killing his chickens at night , thought it was a owl. So he built a small roust barn. He no longer found dead chickens at the morning feeding, so had asumed pinning them up at night solved his owl problem! About two weeks later he noticed when he let the chickens out, in the morning there were less chickens then he thought he had but was not shure what was happening to them. So he checkede the roust barn and found what was left of the chicken on the floor of the barn.
The owl was, some how getting in the barn! He checked the hole barn and found no opening large enough for a mouse to get in. So he thought the owl had changed to hunting the checkens by day, inside the barn.
Several times he come home from work at noon to check the barn and found nothing. But the next morning he found another dead chicken.
He finly figgered it out. The owl was hidden in the high coner of the small barn behind he when he went in . Sence he had little time befor work and could see all the inside of the barn when he intered he never thought to turn around and look up .
When he close the chickens up for the night he only mad a quick look inside and would close the door, closeing the owl in with the chicken.
Durning the noon checks the owl was probley close by waiting for him to leave so he could reinter and waite for him to put the chickens up for the night.
Actions like this requires a little more brain waves then just instenct.

[Bird_Dog]

Raptor I.Q. test. Lets be fair about our evaluation by testing owls and hawks with a simple I.Q. test. Perhaps a delayed response task. Train a bird to find hidden food under a cup. Hide a piece of meat "randomly" under one of three identical cups (butter dish). Allow time to laps at increasing intervals before releasing the bird. Making a correct choice should decrease as the delay grows in time. Species and Order differences in choice accuracy may occur. If this test isn't a good one, I would like to other suggestions. A while back I wrote this short article on raptor intelligence for the Texas Hawking Association's journal "On the Wing."

--BIRD_DOG

[UKJay's Nursey]

i personally think NO they are not stupid, bo can be quite intelligent at times just wish bo would unleash some of his more often. Yesterday he was sitting in the living room onone of his perches and the advert for those annoying ring tones,the ones with the 2 chicks singing... well he stared straight at the tele as if to say whoa momma look at the size of them, hehehe,he will quiet happily sit and watch tele.

[Hawkmaster]

Compared to most hawks, falcons, vultures, caracaras and kookaburras, they are DUMB! Or slower, not so bright, prehaps not able to perform as well, etc etc etc . . . FACT!

[Bubo]

aahhhhhh but compared to diurnal bop!!!!!! owls are clever at working things out. i have an old toy i used for my children when they were babies that i have now given to kadabra. as it has rivets and velcro straps i can tie all sorts of toys and things to it. i was wondering about owl intelligence and am trying all sorts of games with him. at the moment i hide a mouse under the yellow velcro strap and a toy under the red one. then added a piece of string to each. he has now worked out if where the mouse is and doest bother wth the other strap.

i tried adding a piccy but it wont upload :cry:

[Wightwings]

crickey Bubs you will have her walking tightropes and riding little table top bikes next....... :lol: :lol: :wink:

[Colohen]

I would never consider any animal as dumb, they all have there differances MUCH LIKE PEOPLE !