Bailey, the musket

[Casey]

Hi all,

Just a couple of lines about my new musket, Bailey. Got to start somewhere with the thread. He was brought over by his owner this afternoon, She came all the way over from Hampshire, and he is now resident with me with the purpose of flying him for the rest of the season and then, hopefully, he'll want to make whoopie with Skye my female. If not, no problem, the number one idea is to fly him.

I'll need some help to upload some photo's of him on the web, but to honest, he looks cracking with a blue/grey back and a deep red front. He is one and a half years old and creche reared.

I have to say, for a non-imprint, he is pretty steady. I had him eating off the fist within the first hour and what brilliant manners he has. He is about 18g's off flying weight and none of the ****ty mantling, screaming , hand grabbing face bating traits of my imprint Spar. He was a pleasure to feed ( look, no bleeding hands)

I'll take him out with me tomorrow for a manning session and see how he goes on the creance whilst experimenting on how much food keeps him steady. I'll then start to drop him to flying then hunting weight

I'll take my camera out tomorrow for a few shot's then you can all see what a handsome lad he is:heart:. Any hints on posting pictures on the forum appreciated.

Chris

[goshawker 4]

Muskets are brill!
hope to see those pics!

[Alf]

Nice one Chris can’t wait to see the photos. Alf.

Hi all,

Just a couple of lines about my new musket, Bailey. Got to start somewhere with the thread. He was brought over by his owner this afternoon, She came all the way over from Hampshire, and he is now resident with me with the purpose of flying him for the rest of the season and then, hopefully, he'll want to make whoopie with Skye my female. If not, no problem, the number one idea is to fly him.

I'll need some help to upload some photo's of him on the web, but to honest, he looks cracking with a blue/grey back and a deep red front. He is one and a half years old and creche reared.

I have to say, for a non-imprint, he is pretty steady. I had him eating off the fist within the first hour and what brilliant manners he has. He is about 18g's off flying weight and none of the ****ty mantling, screaming , hand grabbing face bating traits of my imprint Spar. He was a pleasure to feed ( look, no bleeding hands)

I'll take him out with me tomorrow for a manning session and see how he goes on the creance whilst experimenting on how much food keeps him steady. I'll then start to drop him to flying then hunting weight

I'll take my camera out tomorrow for a few shot's then you can all see what a handsome lad he is:heart:. Any hints on posting pictures on the forum appreciated.

Chris

[Casey]

Nice one Chris can’t wait to see the photos. Alf.

Cheers Alf,

So how do you post piccies then? I had no problems with my avatar why can't I do it with the pictures?

Cheers
Chris

[Alf]

Chris you need to upload your photos to something like photobucket
you then just copy and paste.

[Sean D]

Get him on those pesky Magpies, look forward to the pics

[Casey]

Chris you need to upload your photos to something like photobucket
you then just copy and paste.

Tried and failed again. I uploaded to photo bucket, I can copy but it won't paste it!! even though it is re-sized.
This is going to be a boring thread if there are no photod to show!!!:mad:

[MusketMad]

Tried and failed again. I uploaded to photo bucket, I can copy but it won't paste it!! even though it is re-sized.
This is going to be a boring thread if there are no photod to show!!!:mad:keep trying we are waiting:-D

[Casey]

keep trying we are waiting:-D

Sorry Nigel, I'm just a failure at this ****,

Getting really annoyred with PC so signing off. If you can post'em, I'll e-mail them over to you tomorrow

regards

Chris

[Casey]

Ok last try. here is my Spar Skye on a pigeon exhibiting her usual happy go lucky disposition:roll:

[The Two Scrim's]

nice8-)

[Casey]

So Nigel and Alf,

Here is a couple of pictures of Bailey taken today out on a manning walk. I have to say, he was very well behaved and bated less than my Imprint Spar.

Either too heavy or not manned down enoughfor creance work today. Ate off the fist outside though slightly hesitant at first.

He is beginning to show a lot of promise.

Anyway Nigel, check out the colours on him.:heart:

Chris

[Casey]

here are the piccies:heart:

[Casey]

and another....

[Casey]

and another.....

[DenHawk]

what a good looking lad he is good luck with him mate.....den

[Illustrator]

Ok last try. here is my Spar Skye on a pigeon exhibiting her usual happy go lucky disposition:roll:
did she catch that woody in the pic as most other trained ones won't look at them

[Alf]

Chris he is a good looking musket, still think Zapp will knock spots of him when he moults out.:yawinkle:
Joking aside he seems a great little musket hope you enjoy your hunting with him.
Alf.



So Nigel and Alf,

Here is a couple of pictures of Bailey taken today out on a manning walk. I have to say, he was very well behaved and bated less than my Imprint Spar.

Either too heavy or not manned down enoughfor creance work today. Ate off the fist outside though slightly hesitant at first.

He is beginning to show a lot of promise.

Anyway Nigel, check out the colours on him.:heart:

Chris

[Casey]

did she catch that woody in the pic as most other trained ones won't look at them

Yes, she had six of them, albeit in the first stages of her training. As you can see though, they were adult woodies. She still bates after them even now, though her success rate diminished. The one in the photo was taken after she naffed off for the best part of 2 hrs. It certainly stopped her wandering on that day!!

I do hope you are not suggesting it was a baggie or dead before she got it!!Spars can and do take pigeon. If you are in any doubt, go for a walk around a wood or field sometime. You will more than likely find a large clump of pigeon feathers. That'll be Sparrowhawk kill!!! They are awesome to see!!:supz::supz:

[Casey]

what a good looking lad he is good luck with him mate.....den

Cheers Den, I'll be on to you at some point in the future for breeding advice!!

Chris

[Casey]

Chris he is a good looking musket, still think Zapp will knock spots of him when he moults out.:yawinkle:
Joking aside he seems a great little musket hope you enjoy your hunting with him.
Alf.

We will see, my friend...We will see...........

[Forstalls]

Chris,

Please ignore the email I've just sent you then, should have checked here first!
Glad to see he's settling in quickly and look forward to seeing pics of him on his first kill!

Keep us all updated :)

Kerry

[MusketMad]

and another.....cracking little fella mate:supz:

[MusketMad]

cracking little fella mate:supz:just a word of advice mate ...do not put that little fella in to breed with your female ....in that plumage he is a goner mate ...believe me

[The Two Scrim's]

Lush musket there:cool:

[Casey]

just a word of advice mate ...do not put that little fella in to breed with your female ....in that plumage he is a goner mate ...believe me

Why is that Nigel, do the colourful ones taste better?

[MusketMad]

Why is that Nigel, do the colourful ones taste better?trust me mate ...i wouldnt want to see him as a casting

[Illustrator]

Yes, she had six of them, albeit in the first stages of her training. As you can see though, they were adult woodies. She still bates after them even now, though her success rate diminished. The one in the photo was taken after she naffed off for the best part of 2 hrs. It certainly stopped her wandering on that day!!

I do hope you are not suggesting it was a baggie or dead before she got it!!Spars can and do take pigeon. If you are in any doubt, go for a walk around a wood or field sometime. You will more than likely find a large clump of pigeon feathers. That'll be Sparrowhawk kill!!! They are awesome to see!!:supz::supz:

It's ok i have been a keeper for 10 yrs, i am now at university and my current project is spars at woodpigeon. ive been decoying lately and seen quite a few attempts at my decoys from wild spars, photographing them is another story for my art work and have been trying to get reference of this with trained spars however most seem to be weded on other prey or not entered at all;)

[Casey]

It's ok i have been a keeper for 10 yrs, i am now at university and my current project is spars at woodpigeon. ive been decoying lately and seen quite a few attempts at my decoys from wild spars, photographing them is another story for my art work and have been trying to get reference of this with trained spars however most seem to be weded on other prey or not entered at all;)

No problems, feel free to ask. I have no shots of my spar hitting any but quite a few on the ground. Trouble is they are so bloody quick!!:roll:

[MusketMad]

No problems, feel free to ask. I have no shots of my spar hitting any but quite a few on the ground. Trouble is they are so bloody quick!!:roll:once they get up and fly its over ...theyyyye goneee

[Illustrator]

once they get up and fly its over ...theyyyye goneee

tell me about it:lol:

[Casey]

Not really much of an update, I have spent the last week manning Bailey and he will jump leash length. I have been trying to get his weight correct but always end up erring on the side of too high so that his weight hit 153g's!!Previously he was kept inside all the while (except when moulting) so as he has been outside a whole lot more I've been a bit over cautious with his weight till I get it right.

Starting to get to grips with it now and his weight is dropping a gram a day he is now 149g's and the response is very slow but workeable. He will need a whole lot more to come off and as I know that he will go down (previous keepers records) to 139g he has been on really short rations today which should take about 3g's off him. He is calm as anything outside but has had my hands on a number of occasions, whilst messing with the equipment. I am used to this from my female and my hands are usually littered with infected talon wounds ( they like to dig quite deep to make sure they get lots of dirt/germs deep into the wound!!!):roll:

I have yet to catch him in the bath which is weird for a Sparrowhawk.

More updates to follow.

Chris

[Casey]

Bailey's weight is now down to 142g's (9gs' over the previous keepers lowest weight) with a reasonable amount of muscle still on his breast. I have to say that he is still very skittish which I believe is due to him being parent reared.

He prefers to be outside than indoors and he rarely settles inside, unless in his box.

I was going to take him out today for a long manning walk and some creance work around my permission. Unfortunately, the rain put paid to all that!! I gave up came home and then went out into the garden and the sun came out!!:roll:

Came about 7-8ft on the creance but the reaction time is too slow. He also got fed from a carcass on the floor which he did well without showing any signs of carrying. A fairly smooth pickup was had too. Time for some more weight to come off him. I'd like a slightly better response time!!

Got to work these next two days so I'll be a morning feed inside ( it is too dark outside ) Next update Saturday.

[Casey]

Haven't had much of a chance to get Bailey out in the field to truly ***** how his weight to training success is going. He is fine in the garden at say up to 9 feet, then he starts to rake off on the creance.

For the short time I did get out on Saturday, I concentrated on fist work and Lure which he has taken to very well with no tendancy to carry. I have been trying to feed him close to the ground to make sure he gets used to eating at ground level with me about, rather than wisk his food 30ft up a tree!! he only flew a couple of feet in the field.

Today, He was 138g's but was still very slow to the fist. I was able to get him to fly 3ft then 5ft to the fist. In fact over the small stream you can see in the photo (below). It is the only place with a decent fence post to fly from so the creance doesn't snag on twigs etc. It was quite windy today and he was getting blown about a bit on the fist which made him a bit edgy

Again, the weight needs to come down quite a bit but I'm being slow and cautious to avoid any agression from him.

Photo will appear on the next post.

[Casey]

Here it is

[Alf]

Chris unless he in the house with you tonight the forecast to be very cold tonight I would be careful of pulling him lower just yet. Alf.

Haven't had much of a chance to get Bailey out in the field to truly ***** how his weight to training success is going. He is fine in the garden at say up to 9 feet, then he starts to rake off on the creance.

For the short time I did get out on Saturday, I concentrated on fist work and Lure which he has taken to very well with no tendancy to carry. I have been trying to feed him close to the ground to make sure he gets used to eating at ground level with me about, rather than wisk his food 30ft up a tree!! he only flew a couple of feet in the field.

Today, He was 138g's but was still very slow to the fist. I was able to get him to fly 3ft then 5ft to the fist. In fact over the small stream you can see in the photo (below). It is the only place with a decent fence post to fly from so the creance doesn't snag on twigs etc. It was quite windy today and he was getting blown about a bit on the fist which made him a bit edgy

Again, the weight needs to come down quite a bit but I'm being slow and cautious to avoid any agression from him.

Photo will appear on the next post.

[Casey]

Chris unless he in the house with you tonight the forecast to be very cold tonight I would be careful of pulling him lower just yet. Alf.

Hi Alf,

Thanks for the warning. He does stay in the house overnight and usually gets brought in about 1:00 to 2:00 pm.

Because I'm trying to control his weight, I'm keeping as many constants as I can. Having said that, both my Sparrowhawks come in for the night even though my female is about 30g's over-weight at the moment! (though I am dropping her weight by a couple of grams per day in time for Xmas hols).

I'll probably bring my Harris in too!!! Good grief it gets busy in my house!!!

I do think that Bailey needs a whole lot more weight to go. He doesn't seem interested in anything fluttering out of the bushes today. He does have a fair amount on his breast as well. Do muskets fly with proportionaly more on them than Spars? I have read this somewhere and wonder if this is true?

Chris

[Alf]

Chris with this little guy not been hunted before he may need that reduction to get him started but you have to be aware of the time out in the field after picking him up and going there. If you feed early morning to bring him on weight for the afternoon session and you go out with him for an hour or so weighing before you go out its amazing how much he will drop in only an hour if the weather is cold.
Even though your musket seems to be responsive indoors or in the garden and you think it could be a weight problem because he isn’t outdoors in the field and it probably is! a slight reduction when the weather is like this cold it could pull him down even further than you think.
If you feel the need as I am sure you do to take him down a tad I would feed good top ups on every call off you make if he responds only go for one or two call offs and give a good few mouthfuls on each recall.
Once the penny has dropped you can up his weight a little.
Regarding breast and what’s on him A hawk the size of a musket that hasn’t been flown for a long time if it has at all will not have a great deal of muscle mass basically it will be body fat or what’s left of it that’s on him and this can burn off quite quickly you feel him in the morning and feel him 8 hours later it could surprise you.
Alf.


Hi Alf,

Thanks for the warning. He does stay in the house overnight and usually gets brought in about 1:00 to 2:00 pm.

Because I'm trying to control his weight, I'm keeping as many constants as I can. Having said that, both my Sparrowhawks come in for the night even though my female is about 30g's over-weight at the moment! (though I am dropping her weight by a couple of grams per day in time for Xmas hols).

I'll probably bring my Harris in too!!! Good grief it gets busy in my house!!!

I do think that Bailey needs a whole lot more weight to go. He doesn't seem interested in anything fluttering out of the bushes today. He does have a fair amount on his breast as well. Do muskets fly with proportionaly more on them than Spars? I have read this somewhere and wonder if this is true?

Chris

[Casey]

Hi Alf,

Always appreciate your advice. I only feed him once a day now. When he goes outside he will not have been fed since last morning. I find it does tend to help the response times. I always tidbit out of the box otherwise he goes berserk and give him about ten minutes to settle. We then set off and I usually walk around and give him another twenty minutes before I try for a recall. I will then allow him a few mouthfulls as you say, it doesn't pay to keep him waiting with a cold wind blowing him about a bit. I will then go on again for another five ten minutes and same again. I don't fly him more than five times with the fifth being his full days ration, off the lure and then a pick up. I do have a few windbreak pockets where I like to fly him off and every other bird i've had too.

As he really isn't too fussed at jumping too far. My instinct tells me he needs a bit more hunger motivation. I am constantly aware of his weight. I've just had a look at his previous owners records and he has been as low as 133g's. I am in, a bit of a safe zone at the moment at 138g's though still take the mixed up gloucose syringe and tube with me. He has a bit more to come off before I'm in uncharted territory, but I'm still playing it quite safe with a 2g drop per day. I always give him a little more food when I know I'm not going to be about (I work thursday and fridays) just in case but only bring him up a gram or two.

His weight tends to go down again when I'm about.

I'll keep you (and everyone else) posted.

Chris

[Alf]

Chris I know your on the ball mate! One thing as I am sure your aware 133 grams was this muskets lowest weight with its previous owner, was this in winter with a second year hawk taken up for training ?
I am sure, No I more than sure you know the job, looking forward to reading your hunting posts mate.
Alf. .


Hi Alf,

Always appreciate your advice. I only feed him once a day now. When he goes outside he will not have been fed since last morning. I find it does tend to help the response times. I always tidbit out of the box otherwise he goes berserk and give him about ten minutes to settle. We then set off and I usually walk around and give him another twenty minutes before I try for a recall. I will then allow him a few mouthfulls as you say, it doesn't pay to keep him waiting with a cold wind blowing him about a bit. I will then go on again for another five ten minutes and same again. I don't fly him more than five times with the fifth being his full days ration, off the lure and then a pick up. I do have a few windbreak pockets where I like to fly him off and every other bird i've had too.

As he really isn't too fussed at jumping too far. My instinct tells me he needs a bit more hunger motivation. I am constantly aware of his weight. I've just had a look at his previous owners records and he has been as low as 133g's. I am in, a bit of a safe zone at the moment at 138g's though still take the mixed up gloucose syringe and tube with me. He has a bit more to come off before I'm in uncharted territory, but I'm still playing it quite safe with a 2g drop per day. I always give him a little more food when I know I'm not going to be about (I work thursday and fridays) just in case but only bring him up a gram or two.

His weight tends to go down again when I'm about.

I'll keep you (and everyone else) posted.

Chris

[Casey]

Alf,

In answer to your questions, It was shown in the records pre intermewed 133g may 2007, 134g feb 07, 133g jan 07.

I have to say a big thank you to Kerry for making and passing on these records, it has made the job a whole lot easier. It may be that he will need to come down to that, but I am again cautious as he will have continued to grow during his first year and moult so 133g this December 07 will mean more weight off him in actual terms than it would have been in January 2007. If you see what I mean.

Chris

[Alf]

Chris apart from the slight mix of Feb and Jan I get your drift:yawinkle:. So you might have a lot to play with taking into consideration your scales match with the peason who sold you this hawk?
Doing this only for you mate. Nothing else!
We both know this musket needs to come lower Just tread carefully my friend. Alf.



Alf,

In answer to your questions, It was shown in the records pre intermewed 133g may 2007, 134g feb 07, 133g jan 07.

I have to say a big thank you to Kerry for making and passing on these records, it has made the job a whole lot easier. It may be that he will need to come down to that, but I am again cautious as he will have continued to grow during his first year and moult so 133g this December 07 will mean more weight off him in actual terms than it would have been in January 2007. If you see what I mean.

Chris

[Casey]

Oh Dear....

Bailey is in the dog house (actually in his transport box but you get the picture!!)

Took him out for an evening manning in the house as usual. When going back into his box I had let go of his leash as he is indoors, He fidgeted around on his perch in the box and had his tail caught underneath. I reached in to get him back on the glove for a second attempt and he took off over my shoulder and landed on the hanging tinsel decorations and ripped them down, went onto the next and broke that one also.:lol:

Thing is, every year for the past three years my son has done this by various mean, sticks, balloons etc has ruined and brought one or two down. I always bollock him so I sat him down this year and explained the rules of not trying to break them , throwing stuff in the air, hitting them with things, swinging his dressing gown belt etc..............

Boy am I in for a telling off by my 7 year old!!!!:roll:

[Casey]

Not much to report...

Bailey's weight down to 133g this morning (3gs off yestersdays 136g) Now I'll start to slow up the weight loss to 1g a day.

Performance, considering he was 5grams down from the last time I flew him, was very marginal. almost to the point of nearly non-existent. he was fine and happy and quite fluffed up but not really interested in jumping more than a couple of feet. I had to almost waive the food in front of his beak to get his attention then move the fist away. If I moved the fist more than a couple of foot, his attention went and he'd sit there looking around. It was cold out this morning, he had a small tidbit to get him in and out of the box with minimum fuss but not much so quite suprised.

He ate from the lure, but wasn't really hungry in that "gotta eat here and now" kinda way I would expect from a hungry bird.

More weight to come off him then. Now in to uncharted territory.

Here is a quick fluffy photo from this morning. compare this to the one in my avatar. He is much more relaxed now. Only problem is, he hasn't been caught in the bath yet or shown any signs of bathing. he also doesn't feak his bill so he tends to end up with manky food round his chops. He isn't keen on his beak being cleaned by hand and water so I'm leaving it to see if he settles down to a routine in future. Just looks messy and would, if there were any about, attract flies etc.

[Esparver]

Nice bird mate!!:heart:

[Perebrine]

just a word of advice mate ...do not put that little fella in to breed with your female ....in that plumage he is a goner mate ...believe me
Hi Musketmad,
I'm trying to learn as much about breeding Spars as I can, why would putting him in with the female, in that plumage, kill him?
John B.

[Casey]

Not the best week I've had with Bailey.

He is simply not keen on flying to me. Looking at my records, It does seem he will fly better at higher weight. He is up from 133 to 148g. He will fly well indoors but can't get him any further than 2ft outside with a very slow response.

The plan is, now he has been doing some jump ups indoors to put some muscle back on his chest, is to get him used to flying to me indoors, then transfer him to outside jump ups. He is a bit of a mystery to me I have to say.

I have had hawks that simply didn't know the game and I think he is one of them. Thankfully all the others have turned around, so I'm treating him with a back to basics course though progress is painfully slow. While he is jumping indoors, it is helping to form the bond, though he will get a 1g a day weight drop to see If things improve. I am just going to have to take my time with him and hope he clicks eventually.

[Steve Rose]

Not much to report...

Bailey's weight down to 133g this morning (3gs off yestersdays 136g) Now I'll start to slow up the weight loss to 1g a day.

Performance, considering he was 5grams down from the last time I flew him, was very marginal. almost to the point of nearly non-existent. he was fine and happy and quite fluffed up but not really interested in jumping more than a couple of feet. I had to almost waive the food in front of his beak to get his attention then move the fist away. If I moved the fist more than a couple of foot, his attention went and he'd sit there looking around. It was cold out this morning, he had a small tidbit to get him in and out of the box with minimum fuss but not much so quite suprised.

He ate from the lure, but wasn't really hungry in that "gotta eat here and now" kinda way I would expect from a hungry bird.

More weight to come off him then. Now in to uncharted territory.

Here is a quick fluffy photo from this morning. compare this to the one in my avatar. He is much more relaxed now. Only problem is, he hasn't been caught in the bath yet or shown any signs of bathing. he also doesn't feak his bill so he tends to end up with manky food round his chops. He isn't keen on his beak being cleaned by hand and water so I'm leaving it to see if he settles down to a routine in future. Just looks messy and would, if there were any about, attract flies etc.
i may be wrong but i would be very worried if i had a musket looking that low
steve

[Casey]

Steve,

It was a cold day with frost on the ground. He had another 5g's to go before he hit the lowest weight he'd ever been flown at. Don't confuse fluffed up birds with low birds, he wasn't exhibiting any of the usual signs of a low bird (lemon eye etc)

Having said that he did, after a keel feel at the end of our training session feel very thin. I took the decision not to go any lower and have increased his weight, see above.

Chris

[Steve Rose]

Ok chris
it may have been the pic just looked to fluffed up but without seeing the actual bird it would be hard to tell (just seen to many spars F***** by using weight loss!) like i said i may have been wrong. I'm not just having a pop! i flew and bred spars for years. i'll dig out some old pics later!
steve

[Casey]

Ok chris
it may have been the pic just looked to fluffed up but without seeing the actual bird it would be hard to tell (just seen to many spars F***** by using weight loss!) like i said i may have been wrong. I'm not just having a pop! i flew and bred spars for years. i'll dig out some old pics later!
steve

Don't worry Steve, no offence taken.

Look forward to seeing some old photo's (especially if you have some 80's mullet haircuts!!)

Always good to have some extra experience on the forum. Were all yours parent reared??

[Alf]

Chris you going exactly the right way about it what you have to understand is a hawk like a musket needs the time in the field you cant rush this process cutting him fine will not produce anything other than a low hawk he still wont respond its like muskets have a mental block until the hawk feels safe and relaxed around you and his environment / the big out doors he wont progress.
Your musket I believe hasn’t had much field work?
Reparation day in day out he needs that stimuli of going out to the field.
I am on my second day out in the field with Zapp since I picket back up he is at the right weight yet is not responding the way he should I know he now views the field as a strange place not like he did 3 months ago it s only a little time that will bring him round I am just keeping him at flight weight not going to drop him any lower as I know this wouldn’t work just yet.
Keep plugging away mate the penny could drop with your hawk anytime! Alf.


Not the best week I've had with Bailey.

He is simply not keen on flying to me. Looking at my records, It does seem he will fly better at higher weight. He is up from 133 to 148g. He will fly well indoors but can't get him any further than 2ft outside with a very slow response.

The plan is, now he has been doing some jump ups indoors to put some muscle back on his chest, is to get him used to flying to me indoors, then transfer him to outside jump ups. He is a bit of a mystery to me I have to say.

I have had hawks that simply didn't know the game and I think he is one of them. Thankfully all the others have turned around, so I'm treating him with a back to basics course though progress is painfully slow. While he is jumping indoors, it is helping to form the bond, though he will get a 1g a day weight drop to see If things improve. I am just going to have to take my time with him and hope he clicks eventually.

[Casey]

Alf,

Good afternoon me 'ol mucker!

148g's again today. Bailey hasn't had that much time in the field with his previous keeper due to leg/foot problems which cut short his training. It may be worth taking him outside to my flying ground for a few manning sessions. He will eat off the fist but won't fly more than a few inches after about a half a minute.

I am seeing a pattern with him which would seem to indicate that you are quite right!! (Suprise!:roll:)

He feels comfortable indoors so flies seven or eight foot and between me and the mrs both with food.

Take him outside into the garden where he is weathered and I'll get a couple of foot.

Take him to my flying ground and I'll be lucky to get more than a jump/hop.

So, do i force the big outdoors on him or concentrate on the positive aspects like some food indoors then some in the garden to build on his confidence? after he has improved outside, I'll stop the indoor feeding. I would consider him ready for the field when I can get about 10ft out of him outdoors in the garden.

I guess a short walk around the field won't do him any harm with food being offered of the fist to smooth the way as part of his training. Coupled with this a couple of grams weight drop to increase his keenness?

Chris

[Steve Rose]

chris
i'll sort out some good ones over x mass but here is one to be going on with i'm the one on the right it's taken in 1985
steve

[Casey]

Steve,

Either you are waiting for a bus or going on a hawking by the roadside trip!?

Either way, Big hair!!!:supz:

BTW where in Beds are you. I was born and bred in Bedford!!

[Yorky]

chris
i'll sort out some good ones over x mass but here is one to be going on with i'm the one on the right it's taken in 1985
steve
Big Hair! I thought that was Limahl! or was it Nick Kershaw, or Howard Jones.....

[MusketMad]

chris
i'll sort out some good ones over x mass but here is one to be going on with i'm the one on the right it's taken in 1985
steve
ACKERBILK MEETS LIMAHL FROM KAJAGOOGOO:lol:

[Casey]

Hmmm now I know why i never do mugshots!!

[Casey]

Nige interested on your take upon Bailey's current performance.

You've been a bit quite lately ( makes a change:lol:) Do you have a note from your Mum?

Chris

[MusketMad]

Chris
You Could Try Hanging Out The Flying Time ...for Instance One Day Feeding Him At 3.00pm And The Next At 4.00pm.....ive Found That The Later In The Day It Is The Keener They Are...i Think You Are Doing The Right Thing When Dropping His Weight 1to 2g A Day Is About Right...ive Had Birds That Have Come Out Of The Moult And Been Right Aggro To Get Going Again...my Three Year Old Female Was A Fine Example Of This ...she Had Been Flying For Two Seasons But When Taking Her Out For The Third Season I Had To Take Her To 73/4 Oz When The Previous Season She Had Been Flying At 81/4oz...the Trouble Is With Spars Is That They Revert To A Wild State In No Time At All.....

[Alf]

Chris the way it sounds I would stop feeding calling indoors he is getting rewarded in a place he knows he feels safe you are letting him dictate to you when and where he comes.
If you think about it he comes good indoors a little better in the garden and hardly comes at all in the field.
What’s you training program in the field do you call or try and call him then when he doesn’t come do you then feed him up then and there or do you bring him back home to do this jumping him in the home?
If he has made the connection that he will be fed in the home eventually all he needs to do is wait this is where he knows he will get meal.
One thing you could try is to use his better connection with the garden he seems to feel a little safer in the garden then he does the field you can work on this first.
What I have found is if a hawk is a little reluctant at first to feed well or respond well in a place like your garden is to first take them out and batter there heads with stimuli take them on a good manning session around the doors the field so forth give them a good hour more if possible let them take it all in when they finally get back to the garden the peace and quite its amazing how quickly they will respond soon after this its like there now seeing the garden as a lot safer place to come than the field and it’s a breeze to come jump to you for food.
I would depending on the size of your garden work here first get that connection going of him coming out doors to the fist, keep on with the manning in the field just feed up and train in the garden first until he starts to come more reliably.
If this happens later you can progress with the extra manning he’s getting to then start working him in the field. Alf.


Alf,

Good afternoon me 'ol mucker!

148g's again today. Bailey hasn't had that much time in the field with his previous keeper due to leg/foot problems which cut short his training. It may be worth taking him outside to my flying ground for a few manning sessions. He will eat off the fist but won't fly more than a few inches after about a half a minute.

I am seeing a pattern with him which would seem to indicate that you are quite right!! (Suprise!:roll:)

He feels comfortable indoors so flies seven or eight foot and between me and the mrs both with food.

Take him outside into the garden where he is weathered and I'll get a couple of foot.

Take him to my flying ground and I'll be lucky to get more than a jump/hop.

So, do i force the big outdoors on him or concentrate on the positive aspects like some food indoors then some in the garden to build on his confidence? after he has improved outside, I'll stop the indoor feeding. I would consider him ready for the field when I can get about 10ft out of him outdoors in the garden.

I guess a short walk around the field won't do him any harm with food being offered of the fist to smooth the way as part of his training. Coupled with this a couple of grams weight drop to increase his keenness?

Chris

[MusketMad]

I have been keeping an eye onbailys progress mate but havent had time to do anything lately due to most of my time being taken up with my new musket ..im sure ive been ripped off as it looks a bit different to the others ive flown

[Casey]

I have been keeping an eye onbailys progress mate but havent had time to do anything lately due to most of my time being taken up with my new musket ..im sure ive been ripped off as it looks a bit different to the others ive flown


I think you might be over feeding it Nigel. :lol::lol:

[Casey]

Bailey's weight has been fairly static at 148g's with the exception of today, after he had a bit more quail than normal. Hey, it was Christmas after all!!

Today he flew leash length in the garden at 150g. I have found that he takes a little while to acclimatize himself after coming straight out of his box. He also needs a couple of feed or hops to the fist then he gets the idea and starts to fly up to the 3ft end of the leash. It seems that he clicks and then we're up and running. Until that point it is an uphill struggle.

Nigel, you did say, even before I had him, that they take some time to come round. Boy where you right!!

Alf, he is getting much more time with me outside and is no longer having any food indoors. ( except when I go back to work in Jan and it will be too dark to fly him before I leave (2days a week) I might try feeding him off the fist with a torch or a light outside on those days!!

Progress, however slight, is progress. I am going to get his weight down by a gram or so a day now untill I reach a decent recall on the creance outside.

[Steve Rose]

Steve,

Either you are waiting for a bus or going on a hawking by the roadside trip!?

Either way, Big hair!!!:supz:

BTW where in Beds are you. I was born and bred in Bedford!!
it was a bfc field meet in norfolk i think we are outside the pub been scanning some old pics for you chris
steve

[Steve Rose]

more spar pics

[Steve Rose]

more spar pics of home bred imprint fostering her parents first clutch
steve:supz:

[MusketMad]

more spar pics of home bred imprint fostering her parents first clutch
steve:supz:exellent photos mate..i have some great videos but dont know how to put them on here

[Casey]

Yes Nigel,
we know what videos you have!!!:lol:

[Alf]

Cracking photos Steve.:supz: Alf.

[Steve Rose]

the imprint was bred in 84 then flew her for 5 years and used her to foster from 85 got loads of vid which was origanally taken with a betamax camcorder plugged into a video recorder imagine how clumsy that was on her top flying weight was 12oz mid winter till fox got her while in temporary weathering while moving house then lost the whole blooodline the nxt year tried a few supossed big spars after but nothing as big came along a friend has just put a propper large spar in a breeding program for next year of equal size
steve

[Steve Rose]

to get back to baily don't forget the manning!!
steve

[Casey]

Blimey , a 12oz Spar. That's what I call a big bird.

Fantastic photo's though.

Manning is continuing. I love progress, however small!!:roll:

[MusketMad]

Ive had spars for 27 years and ive never had one fly at any more than about 10 oz ...thats one massive bird

[Steve Rose]

the large spar is the one in the photo's she started 1st year flying free at 9 3/4oz and up to 12 oz in jan fat weight about 13oz
steve

[Alf]

The spars I have flown never had one hunt over 10 ½ oz had one that hunted at this weight and that was a 6 year old female I hunted every year never had an imprint female start over 8 ½ oz and I have flown a few.
Seen some big wild ones but none I think could be 12 oz .
That must have been some female.
Any photos of your mate’s big spar the one he has now in for breeding? Alf.


the large spar is the one in the photo's she started 1st year flying free at 9 3/4oz and up to 12 oz in jan fat weight about 13oz
steve

[Steve Rose]

The spars I have flown never had one hunt over 10 ½ oz had one that hunted at this weight and that was a 6 year old female I hunted every year never had an imprint female start over 8 ½ oz and I have flown a few.
Seen some big wild ones but none I think could be 12 oz .
That must have been some female.
Any photos of your mate’s big spar the one he has now in for breeding? Alf.hi alf
it took some rummaging i knew i had one this was taken earlier this year
steve

[Alf]

Steve it’s hard to tell from a photo but even I can see she’s a big girl that ring looks tight on her leg. Was this female hunted? Alf.


hi alf
it took some rummaging i knew i had one this was taken earlier this year
steve

[Casey]

Steve,

ten out of ten for the summer house/mews conversion. Even my wife wouldn't object to such an ingcognito mews!!

Bailey came about five foot on the line yesterday, but took a few jumps to get him keen. I had to go to visit my dad yesterday, so only garden training. He was a couple of grams over (152g) so it came as a surprise when he flew five foot on three occasions.

Today, took him out with me when i flew the Harris, handy popping one bird back in the car and taking another out. He wasn't very keen today to jump in the field then again he was 155g's (oops again, I hate throwing good quail away) and only came a foot!! I didn't expect much from him anyway as he was very high!! Good manning session though too much food to finish him off at home, just not interested.

Short rations today and the hour and a half manning in the field should bring him back in line for some more progress over the next few days!

[Steve Rose]

chris
the summerhouse not mine i'm afraid mine spreads out a bit more than that. pic included that's 80' long
alf
the spar has been flown this year mainly magpies think she was flying about 11oz will get an update on her soon
steve

[Casey]

Nice set up!! If only I had a bigger garden!!

Bailey was down in weight today 151g's and it showed. He flew about two foot in the field, and about 6ft at home. His weight is coming down but slowly, I have a about 11g's to play with before he becomes too thin and the performance suffers.

He is slowly coming round, more manning is required as well as this is helping, though today was a pain as he kept getting blown about in the wind!!

[Casey]

Weight is down today, he was 146g not sure how he dropped so quickly, planned on him being 148g However, the 5g weight loss resulted in a 10ft flight on the creance and an improvement in the speed of response with a definate head bobbing interest in flying for food on the glove.

He was definately switched on today!! Could do better in terms of speed of response but an all round improvement.:supz: it's all work towards the first free flight, then the fun begins!!!

[Gecko]

I know your new bird is older but here's a photo of my last musket I was flying before coming back out South Africa.

'Lark' was hunting in at 128g's and I could push him up to 132g but from there he was tempted to carry.

Good luck with your's and good hunting.

[Casey]

Hi Gecko,

Thanks for the photo. Is he a Eurasion Sparrowhawk (Accipiter Nisus)?

[SparsTheOne]

Casey, this is a diary that I did on my musket,I,m not the best with spars but it might be a good read, and could help you out abit, I wish I,d stuck it out with this little hawk as I had alot of fun with him while I was flying him.

http://www.falconryforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=17137

this is him.



cheers jase.

[Casey]

Jase, thanks for that, an interesting read and fun to watch.

Also interesting to see that your hawk went the way of my female, when I stopped flying her. It is a real disapointment when they go like that as you have such fun flying them, then it all goes Pete Tong!! I could've cried after the last two disapearances by my Spar. You spend all that time raising, training and then they just go off the boil. Least you didn't have the 5 hour chase when the bird actively starts to fly away from you!! Then when she gets bored, you pick her up off the ground as if nothing has happened!!!

Thanks for sharing it, I just hope Bailey doesn't go that way. At the moment he isn't ready anyway.

Cheers

Chris

[SparsTheOne]

Jase, thanks for that, an interesting read and fun to watch.

Also interesting to see that your hawk went the way of my female, when I stopped flying her. It is a real disapointment when they go like that as you have such fun flying them, then it all goes Pete Tong!! I could've cried after the last two disapearances by my Spar. You spend all that time raising, training and then they just go off the boil. Least you didn't have the 5 hour chase when the bird actively starts to fly away from you!! Then when she gets bored, you pick her up off the ground as if nothing has happened!!!

Thanks for sharing it, I just hope Bailey doesn't go that way. At the moment he isn't ready anyway.

Cheers

Chris


no problem at all.


jase.

[Casey]

Whahey!!

I think i've finally got Bailey coming on side!!

Took him out today. I'd given him extra rations as I wanted his weight to be about 147 but it was 149g, 3 up from yesterday.

Really didn't think i'd get far in the field so walked with him for about half an hour then tried a few jumps. one of about two foot, four foot, six foot. I decided to go for broke as he appeared to be going for it and went the whole length of my smaller creance 17ft and I waved a whole chick at him. It took him about a minute to finally come for the chick after I'd stopped to talk to some people on horses, which didn't bother him but he came the whole 17ft from the smaller tree stump on the left of the picture.

Things are clicking and and real progress is happening at last!!

Happy New year to All!!

[Alf]

Nice one Chris! And a happy new year to you to mate!
Out on the drink now party’s to go to have a great time mate all the best. Alf.

[Forstalls]

Glad to see he's finally starting to pick up.
Hope you start getting a quicker response from him from now on :)

All the best for the new year.

[Casey]

Thanks Kerry,

I didn't post yesterday but he came the full length of the creance 17ft on two occassions with a little less hesitation. I cocked his weight up today and put him up by 3gs (151gs) today and he wasn't interested. His weight needs to drop a bit to get a quicker response.

I believe he has finally adjusted to me, but it has been an eternity of manning to get where I presently am. What sort of delay did you get when you were calling him? At the moment he making me wait a minute, then he clicks, his feathers pull in, he shows interest then he is off to the fist without hesitation. It is just that wait before he decides to come, I find really odd.

Have a happy New Year!!

Chris

[Ben C]

Good going......finally. :supz::lol::yawinkle:

[Casey]

Ben,

It has been a month of hard work!!:roll:

I don't think I've ever trained such a tricky little customer. Hope it should be plain sailing now that he has adjusted to life in Essex!!

[Alf]

Chris don’t want to rain on your parade mate but just because your hawk will come this distance or that distance doesn’t mean to say he’s going to chase after game with any consistency. Sorry mate but it’s a fact! Alf.

[Casey]

I'm considerably rained on then!!

[Alf]

Chris what you have to understand is that a hawk like your musket needs to feel one with the world that’s the best way to describe it (one with the world) before it will hunt to any decree of proficiency, yes he might take the odd slip on but your hawk is a mature hawk that hasn’t been entered its not going to be easy mate.
I do on this occasion hope I am wrong. Alf.



I'm considerably rained on then!!

[Yorky]

I'm considerably rained on then!!
Cant knock your persistence and determination to work this through...hope you get a lucky break, you deserve it.

[Alf]

Totally agree with you. Alf.

Cant knock your persistence and determination to work this through...hope you get a lucky break, you deserve it.

[Casey]

Cheers Guys,

I'll need it!!

No real flying for the next two days, I'm back to work again!!:(

Two days of garden excercise and extra rations because of the cold snap!!

[Forstalls]

Hi Chris

At the time when I was flying him at the gallops his responses were very quick.
I initially point him to his post, he'd fly over, rouse and take a look around and home in on me. Once he'd done a flight or two his responses were almost immidiate.
I think he will get there in the end but with him not being imprinted etc it might just be a little more uphill than most.
But worth the challange I'm sure :)

Glad to hear he's doing longer flights now.
All the best.

[Casey]

Thanks for that Kerry, I'm taking a bit of weight off him this weekend which should make a bit of difference on the speed of the recall. He is being flown at the higher end of his weight range. Now I have some distance, I've just got to get the speed and interest.

As I say, he really has taken some time to come round, sure I could've perhaps forced a better response distance and time by keeping him at 136, but being heavier has in an odd way clamed his rather batey attitude when I'm not about. It might be that he has got used to his enviroment and it has nothing to do with the weight, more so the manning. I won't ever know now.

Weather looks windy for tomorrow, so I may not get very far with him, back to work next Thursday so bags of time to sort things out.

Keep watching!!

Chris