Anyone else fly . . .

[Hawkmaster]

Harris Hawks and Goshawks together?

I fly my female Goshawk, Cherry, with Phil's Female Harris Hawk, Purdey and they both work very well with his daughter, Kelly's Male, Rolf.

[Shaun Byrne]

Cracking mate, just watched a video of a Harris and Gos flying together over dogs in Spain, you're the first I've heard of in this country though!

[Johnny]

Good on you paul its good to see to different birds hunting together !
Has anyone ever hunted a hhh and a red ?
All the best
johnny
What happens when they have a kill together ?

[Shaun Byrne]

Tried a FHH and a FRT together once, decided it was a bad move when the RT started plucking the HH. They were fine at top weight but as soon as they were hunting................!

[Johnny]

lol hawka i think its a NO then ,i dont think wileman would be happy having his hh plucked by flame ,i might ask snipe can we try it on sunday ,lol
Johnny

[Shaun Byrne]

Stab me I'm slow, just got it "Rolf Harris" PMSL

[Johnny]

What wileman ,lol
Did you just think off that then ,he he
we,ll have to start calling him that
Johnny

[Shaun Byrne]

PMSL, no johnny, not Ian the artist, Phils daughters HH. We could still call Ian, Rolf if you like though PMP!!!

[Wightwings]

PMSL, what a f£cking great name for a HH Rolf brilliant pmsl :lol: :lol:

[Bill]

**** me I'm slow, just got it "Rolf Harris" PMSL

Yeh, and it's got three legs . . . .

[Sniper]

johnny i have PM'D YOU.

Dont fancy much your red and my HH together johnny...i think they need a bit of qualiteh time together first..just like me and you did at first :D

What wileman ,lol
Did you just think off that then ,he he
we,ll have to start calling him that
Johnny

[Hawkmaster]

I have flown Reds and HHs, but the best was my FRT, my wifes MRT and a Female Ferruginous, awesome to see. The Ferru was too big for them to mess with and she never killed anything except bunnies, even flew her with a kessie!

Rolf got his name from Dave Newby, it is a GOOD LAUGH when people get it. lol

Good question Johnny about what happens with Kills. If the Gos gets there before the other two, they respect it and leave it as we saw twice on the day of the photo below. But if the Gos gets there afterwards she just joins in and sort of thinks she has claimed it. Rolfie will usually come up from behind and pull on a leg or pluck. No fighting of crabbing at all with the birds, an absolute joy, we are very lucky.

[Bubo]

that is amazing!! and wonderful to see.
bubo

[Darren]

i was under the impression that only Harris Hawks could be flown together...looks like i have more to learn.

[Sniper]

Are the birds kept within close proximity of each other or are they bowed out together during the moult to achieve this respect for each other, fantastic shot HM

[Hawkmaster]

They have seen each other when we go hunting, been bowed out together, manned together and done talks and shows with each other. The most important thing may be they were able to see each other throughout the moult?

More than likely just luck anyway as we had no intention of it happening, but really chuffed it has!

We simply discovered it accidently while slipping in turns at rabbits bolting or being flushed. I slipped out of turn and Purdey followed the Gos and landed near by to work with her and so it slowly developed.

I still fly the Gos from the fist though, as you can see, while the HHs simply work from trees, the fist or hedges.

[Sniper]

Do you fly them mixed all the time now or was it just that particular day it happened, and do they work well together?

[Hawkmaster]

All the time if we flying together that day, which is most the time anyway.

[Darren]

i think you have done well...i think its great that you can do this

[Jay]

Darren Harris Hawks are not the only birds that can be flown in a cast, flying HH is actualy a very new thing as far as falonry goes. The origonal cast were falons flown togeather. There are still a good number of guys out west in the US flying a cast of longwings.

[Johnny]

Christ you look the spitting image of peter kay in that forest last night on max and paddy ,lol

[Sean]

Jay i read in a book ones that people use to hutn herons with a cast of falons

[Bill]

Peregrines used to be flown in a cast at magpies, heron and kite. They used to ring the herons and release them.

[Hawkmaster]

Yea' it look like I am playing with my nob! lol

[Johnny]

some length if your feeling from there ya donkey ,he he

[Hawkmaster]

No very SMALL, that is why I do falconry, otherwise I would be doing porn movies! lol

[Grand Master Falconer]

I used to fly a male harris and a female ferruginous together, the mhh took all the close stuff the ffh took the long slips,
The MHH would never have the guts to attack the Ferruginous, and she was too clumsy to catch him, hence I was happy to fly them together.
However, even though yours seem happy enough flying in a cast I would not recommend everyone rushes out and tries it.
It is normally the Harris' who will start the fight if there is one, but all birds need to be conditioned to fly together, if your birds see each other all the time they will be as tolerant of each other as they are of you.
This is one of the reasons I dislike the way harris' are flown in the UK. It encourages people to take unecessary risk with the life of their Hawk. A harris is perfectly capable of dealing with rabbits or hare on their own, equally so is the Gos so why risk the life of either. They may work together and seem ok but there is always a risk.
I had a pair of Lanners which bred for 5 years, prior to that I had flown them in a cast for 3 years, one morning I got up to find the female had killed the male! Maybe she was sick of the sight of him LOL but if that can happen to a breeding pair who have been together for 8 years (and are fat) then you should think long and hard about the risks you are taking with two strangers at hunting weight. ( obviouly as previously stated the birds on this thread are not complete strangers)
When out hunting with a friend he slipped his Gos whilst my Harris was already on the chase, we could not see each other and he was out of slip order, we were both thankfull to get our hawks back on the fist without a fight. Although they didn't look like they would scrap I wouldn't like to give them a chance to find out.

Yes its great to see, but its not natural and how stupid would you feel if one of the hawks ended up dead for the sake of a poxy rabbit. With the exception of the Harris hawk our sport has been developed over 4000 years, don't think your the first to try something 'new' its probably been tried 1000 times before.

I'm sure my comments will upset some (as usual) but i'd rather upset all of you than read a post next week from someone with a dead hawk.

Best Wishes
Rick

[Jay]

I mentioned this thread to my sponcer the other day and he told me of how he flew his Gos with two female redtails. He flew with two other guys for years all three walking in the feild taking turns at rabbits. Somtimes all three birds would get cast off and be chasing the same bunny. He and I personaly take GMF's view on the whole thing. He did this 20years ago when he was young and stupid as he put it.

[North East Harris Hawker]

this is amazing stuff, ive never heard of anything like it! but the photos are there! great pics too 8)

[Colohen]

Great Pic!! :mrgreen:

[Mr. Twinkie]

Have heard of a few poeple flying harris gos, redtail gos combinations. I ve put on sum pics of a harris and falcon of mine that moulted out 2gether over the summer.

[Mr. Twinkie]

This isnt the norm.... my birds c alot of each other, either in the garden or travelling in the back of the landrover. while their fat in an avery i knew they'd be fine....if either wer on weight it'd prob b a different matter. :idea:

[Hawkmaster]

What falcon is that?

[Redtail]

cracking pic mate

[Shaun Byrne]

What falcon is that?

A worried one by the looks of it. :D

[Redtail]

Hey shaun how you doing mate.You got that bird going yet mate? :lol:

[Shaun Byrne]

Hey shaun how you doing mate.You got that bird going yet mate? :lol:

Yes mate she's up and free, doing about 500ft twice a day now.

[Gaz]

Shamus,..why dont you let her up once a day at 1000ft :?: save a lot of time dude wouldn"t it :?: ...... :finga:

[BirdMan64]

A family that hunts together stays together.

[Tim Laycock]

:shock: What on earth do you fly at that needs a Gos to catch it and two Harris hawks to beat it down! :shock:

Greyhounds??? :lol: RPMSL

[Gaz]

Rhinocroserrcersoos.......gert big f#####g things with horns on his snozzer (couldnt spell rhnocerosss... :? ) :finga:

[Tim Laycock]

:lol:

[Shaun Byrne]

Shamus,..why dont you let her up once a day at 1000ft :?: save a lot of time dude wouldn"t it :?: ...... :finga:

She's scared of heights Gazza :D :finga:

[Dude]

I also heard about a male HH in Hungary who hunt together with goses :) its was the first HH in Hungary sum yrs before...

[Tr1gger]

Bet there wont b many bunnies that get away from that team! :D

[Hawkmaster]

What on earth do you fly at that needs a Gos to catch it and two Harris hawks to beat it down!
Greyhounds??? RPMSL
:lol: I think you are trying to make it out to be something it is not. We CAN fly them as a team, that IS the point? :lol:

Bet there wont b many bunnies that get away from that team!
Yes they do, but it is more about the flights we get.

[Tim Laycock]

8) :lol:

[Hawkmaster]

:wink:

[Tr1gger]

I wouldnt no what bird to watch

[Tim Laycock]

I would! :lol: :mrgreen:

[Hawkmaster]

I would!
So do I, MINE! :lol:
No they all do their own thing really and each person checks their own too. They never have any aggression or even funny looks at each other and my Gos seems this way with all the HHs around here. Maybe she is not just a mal-inprint but a HH hatched one too? :lol:

[Osiris]

That's great to see and would love to watch both Gos and HH working together... Hav never heard of this being done before but its amazing. Gr8 topic Hawkmaster :-)
J

[Stormy007]

Harris Hawks and Goshawks together?

I fly my female Goshawk, Cherry, with Phil's Female Harris Hawk, Purdey and they both work very well with his daughter, Kelly's Male, Rolf. do you think i could fly storm with them?HAHA pete

[Hawkmaster]

There is no reason why not we will have to get them used to each other first Pete.

[Osiris]

So how does the "bonding" as such happen between the Gos and HH ??
Really impressive.

[Hawkmaster]

They are moulted where they see each other worked together and so it grows, the rest is just good damn luck.

[Osiris]

lol - its all just luck.

So you just let the pair see each other constantly so they get used to each other. Seems simple but i bet it isn't...

[Hawkmaster]

No you also have to be very careful at flying time.

[Osiris]

yeh - but thats basically the same as any other bird whilst your flying a cast

[Hawkmaster]

No, HHs are sneaky!

[Adam Barrett]

or you could say clever :mrgreen: :twisted:

[Tr1gger]

How r they sneaky :?:

[Hawkmaster]

They look like do not want to eat your Gos and one day, BOOM!

[Tr1gger]

:lol:
thats nice and pricey then

[Kevin Massey]

Moved from GFT

[Hawkmaster]

Just an update last season Phil and I flew Cherry with Rolf and Purdey's two offspring 'Sarba' and 'Cisco'.

I have also flown her with Coney Catchers Monster FHH, 'Shadow':supz: BTW Thanks again for that day Day it was the BOMB, the Cherrybomb!

[Hawkmaster]

Still wondering if anyone else has attemped and succeeded to do this?

[Dave G]

sounds very interesting paul but like you stated never let your guard down as always a chance one hawk could turn ? just hope we dont have a rush of tried it but the red killed my bird or the harris took my goss of the fist ?? ive free flown my mhh with a mates goss on his fist without any probs but as soon as he sees another hawk in the tree he becomes a bully lol /DAVE

[Haek]

Ladies and gentlemen I have to confess to a degree of old fashioned bias here. There is no doubt that it can be done but why would you want to. It may happen by accident, under those circumstances if all hawks are returned safely then all concerned should thank their lucky stars. I know from personal experience that having flown a FHH for over twenty years that she was fine with other HH but she killed one gos that was bowed out too close to her and was not to be trusted with any other specie in the same field or the next one for that matter. I feel sure that at some point in the future we will be hearing of a number of hawks killed by people trying to reproduce these peoples actions. I confess that I find it foolish in the extreme and a recipe for disaster.:cry:

[SSL]

There is no doubt that it can be done but why would you want to.

Have to agree :confused:

[Gordie]

i agree with haek 100%why take the chance?

[BHawk]

Ladies and gentlemen I have to confess to a degree of old fashioned bias here. There is no doubt that it can be done but why would you want to. It may happen by accident, under those circumstances if all hawks are returned safely then all concerned should thank their lucky stars. I know from personal experience that having flown a FHH for over twenty years that she was fine with other HH but she killed one gos that was bowed out too close to her and was not to be trusted with any other specie in the same field or the next one for that matter. I feel sure that at some point in the future we will be hearing of a number of hawks killed by people trying to reproduce these peoples actions. I confess that I find it foolish in the extreme and a recipe for disaster.:cry:

i agree in many ways but then there is the falconers who know there birds 100%, have been with their birds for years and know instinctively that it will be safe for both birds, it would be foolish for many people to attempt it but the only person who knows your hawk is you, it also comes down the everything from the rearing of the bird, the birds personality etc. far too many things come into play for it to be 'wrong' or 'right' its all down to individuality. personally however i haven't had the birds i could trust in such a way.

[Ned]

PMSL, what a f£cking great name for a HH Rolf brilliant pmsl :lol: :lol:

hi chris i'am sure that sean on the forum called his harris rolf also atb ned.:supz:

[Haek]

BHawk to an extent I agree with you other than for two points
1 There are a large number of newcomers to our sport on here, and as we all know from personal experience if we can think that far back there is a tendency to try anything that sounds "good". Lets please not lead them into dangerous practices.
2 No one can even know what a trained wild animal will do all the time. Bit like females, the only thing one can predict is that they are unpredictable.
Sorry ladies but it shows the point and you all know it.:oops:

[Hawkmaster]

hi chris i'am sure that sean on the forum called his harris rolf also atb ned.:supz:
There are several of them

[Kylie]

Good on you paul its good to see to different birds hunting together !
Has anyone ever hunted a hhh and a red ?
All the best
johnny
What happens when they have a kill together ?yes the fhh was rushed of the hunting field at deaths door after the male red wasnt happy after some one slipped the hh by mistake

[DanPike]

I flew an American female gos, 10 week old trapped at nest site with a female HH (whitewing line) together. Both birds were perched by eachother, and each independant hunters prior to doing this, so lots of observation before any attempts. The HH was a nice social bird with any other bird and the goshawk primarily ignored other hawks (accidental hunting w/wild redtails didn't seem to bother her). The times I flew them together there was plenty of game. They flew free off fist, sage, and telephone poles. They ended up on rabbits together and were fine with eachother. I do have some knowledge of social/antisocial behavior in HH, and know techniques to hunt and trade them off without creating anti-social behavior. Also, at least American goshawks can hunt socially in the wild, especially in winter at high game concentration areas. From the few European and Finnish birds I've flown, they seem slightly less social than American birds, maybe because they are the biggest girls on the block.

[Yeoman]

Have to agree :confused:

I wouldnt fly a gos in the same vacinity as a harris, seen 2 many accidents... Harris hawks nailing goshawks.
Kev

[SSL]

I wouldnt fly a gos in the same vacinity as a harris

Rules most of North Yorkshire out in the season Kev, only at weekends though :lol::yawinkle: see you Wednesday.