need help to train long wing!

[KevGem1]

i have a good few years of experiance of flying hawks but i decided to buy myself a falcon. I have no experience with long wings i decided to buy myself a gyr/saker teisal male when bought the bird he weighed 1lb 14oz, he is 1 and half years old and never been flown. I have now dropped his weight to 1lb 9oz and having a few problems.

his response time from the t-perch to the lure is slow and i can only make him miss the lure two or three times and then he looks for somewhere to land. I repeat this process 2 or 3 times but he doesnt seem to be getting keener or any fitter by doing this.

Could anyone please advise me if its something i seem to be doing wrong or suggest a problem it could be?

any advice would be appreciated
THANX
KEV

[Matt]

hi m8 do you think it could be that if hes not been flown that its just a matter of being massively unfit ?
my perlin was doing this all the time but as soon as i had him enterd he stoped it almost to the point that he would rather just wait on than sit down .
the first thing to do is not panic if he trys to sit let him take the lure as easly as pos just chuck it out an let him feed .
and then just slowly let him build up his strength try to get just one more pass every few days rather that 2 o 3 a day as its easy to do .
allso im suire you are doing this but he will need loads of manning even after he is flying free as he is .its just that mentaly hes lost that ability to learn like an eyass would ans adapt to new things . so just mann him to death and take your time and you will sort it m8 its nothing to worry to much about .
what do you hope to hunt him at m8 ? mabe if you can get him enterd soon it will help i know it did with my bird .
all the best matt

[Debbie]

Hello Kev,

Welcome to the forum.

Lots of help on here :D

Debbs

[KevGem1]

i am flying him to a crow lure and i am hoping to fly him to crows off the fist all being well m8

[Shaun Byrne]

What percentage Gyr is he mate?
And welcome to the site.

[KevGem1]

cheers mate his father was a gyr/saker x saker and mother was the same so if ya can work that out? ha ha

[Wightwings]

so more saker than gyr then?? not that it matters, but i think matt has hit the nail, he is essentially a second year bird and as such you've missed the early eyass training that can be important and the key is to persivere (bad spelling).

its a bit like us humans, as babes we learn faster but as we "age" and get certain habits and routines we slow down in the leaning process. just keep it up it will come. :D

[KevGem1]

thanks for taking time to give me a bit of advice mate

[Lloydparabuteo]

Sounds like you are taliking from experience wightwings. lol

[Lloydparabuteo]

My brother has a Gyr/Saker which he has just got and is unfit, he does the same, a couple of passes and then lands on the floor waiting for the lure to come to him. I think it is probably the Gyr in them as these are birds that are slow to mature and usually fly and hunt with other Gyrs until they are about three, then they mature. I think this is the same with there flying, that they are slow to pick up and get into it. i may be wrong but this is what i think is the reason for it with my brothers.

[KevGem1]

thanx for the info mate

[Wightwings]

Sounds like you are taliking from experience wightwings. lol

cheeky young pup :lol: :lol: :wink:

[Lloydparabuteo]

no problem, hope he improves

[Lloydparabuteo]

i start of shy, but once i am firmiliar with things, i come out of my shell. (i did that 76 posts ago. lol)

[Hawkmaster]

Welcome to the forum Kev! You will be sorted here, don't worry. It may be best for you to start an online diary and that way people can get a more indepth look at what is going on and help from there?

Cheers and good luck Paul

[Shaun Byrne]

Kev, I would suggest trying to call him from longer distance to start with, pass him only once or maybe twice and give him a good feed off the lure, try to feed him up before he decides to sit then just slowly increase the passes until he's fit.
The reason I asked what percentage Gyr he is, is because 1lb 9 sounds a bit low for a G/S. My male GS/S flies at 1lb 14.

Good luck mate

[KenHawker1970]

Keep on with the lure kev. Let him build his confidencs up. Then get him free mate to get him fit.
Oh yeh, welcome to the forum mate.
Reguards Ken

[KevGem1]

thanks for taking the time to respond. i have had him out today flying at 1 lb 10 ounces, still not very keen coming off the t-perch but seems to be flying with a bit more energy, i flew him 3 times to the lure and made him miss 3 times on each occasion.would this be enough to bring his fittness level up?
regards kev.

[KenHawker1970]

Have you had him making continous passes at the lure Kev(swinging) or have you just been pulling it out of the way with the lure on the ground.

[Shaun Byrne]

Kev, the first thing is to get a definate flying weight. Then I would fly him hard just once per session and reward him well. Read the thread on Zarbu in the diary section, you may find some of it useful.

[KevGem1]

hi everyone i swing the lure all the time and on about the thuird pass i throw it up for him to catch.

[Grand Master Falconer]

Just read kens post, I hope this bird is free already if your passing it to the lure!!!
I would follow h4wka's advice on this one Kev, only pass it once then let him have the lure second time round let him feed a bit then pick him up, do the same once more then feed him up on the lure, it seems a bit boring to start with but you will improve the birds confidence and obedeince in one hit by doing this.( let him catch it in the air it makes him think hes caught you out does confidence loads of good)
Since he is a male I wouldn't concern yourself with the weight 1lb 9oz is quite acceptable for a 1/4 Gyr 3/4 Saker which is what he is.
Don't take take him up and down on other peoples say so you could end up getting no-where As I have said on this forum before it is your decision if some-one says oh mate fly him at 1lb 11oz and you do and he f...ucks off who you gonna blame??!!

Good luck
Rick

[KevGem1]

at 1/9 he does feel a bit sharp so i have taken him to 1/10 and it does seem to have given him a bit more energy although it does seem to be a bit harder to find his right weight. because he doesnt seem to be any keener coming off the T perch to the lure whether i take his weight up or down. he is still very slow to respond to it. KEV ps. thanks for all of the responce everybody

[Varmint]

Try to play with his mind a bit as well! if he's pumping in hard on the second pass, with the wind behind him, let him catch u out.
Next day, only serve him, or allow him to catch the lure, from an upwind angle.
Then start to release your bird, and allow him a little liberty, and produce the lure before he is tired, but in either an upwind or overhead position, allowing him to take a full crop on the lure.

The multiple flights, each day mixing his routine from mount and serve, to mount, serve and pass..... Hide the lure and turn your back.

Your bird should start to re position, mounting.......

Then from there, push him from his initial stoop, harder and harder each day only occasionally allowing him to catch you out, first pass (he's the man!)

And then .......................

[Matt]

well there you go m8 10 differant ways to try lol.
once they get going i dont care who or what they told you the bird will walk you through it m8 they enjoy it as much as you do . also once he lifts off ready to take a pass hide the lure and just walk slowly in to the wind if hes got the idea that your his food suply then hes gona start to mount and follow.
just a few meters at first and as he starts to come to you lob out the lure and feed up .
also you could try dead crows m8 so hes getting a taste for them and a real feel of a carcuss .
duno m8 but all the best matt

[KevGem1]

Hi been a while since iv'e spoke to anyone, just letting you know how things are getting on.

Ive got to the stage where i cast the bird off he seems to range a bit further now and go's a couple of fields away from me most of the time him ending up on the floor, i make my way to him swinging the lure all the time until he decides to come. I can then stoop him to the lure four or five times. But he just seems to be making passes at me and not attacking the lureuntil on one of the passes i throw the lure up for him to hit, he then hits it and drops to the floor with it. Unless he misses then he just hits it on the floor. Is this something to be concerned about and if so, any advise would be gratefully received.

And merry christmas to everyone.

thanx

kev

[Shaun Byrne]

He doesnt seem to be flying too well mate. I dont mean to sound boring but it sounds like a weight issue to me. He's either too light and hasn't got the energy or too heavy and not hungry. Sorry to be a bit vague but only you can really decide which it is, as your the only one that can feel the birds Keel. What weight is he at now?

[KevGem1]

When i first started with the problem i had him at 1lb 9oz, but he felt a bit sharp so i took him to 1lb 10oz and he seemed to have a bit more energy. When he hits the lure and sits on it he usually has a good look around and a bit of a pluck before he gets stuck in he doesn't really seem that keen. But when i had him down to 1lb 9oz he felt sharp so i am at a bit of a loss on what to do next. I have flew Sparrow Hawks, Goshawks and still flying a Harris Hawk and i seem to know where i am with them, but this is sort of a trial and error thing, having said that i don't want to do any damage to the bird or loose it. This is why I'm asking for some advise from people. So any help would be appreciated.

thanks
kev

[Shaun Byrne]

All I can say is try him somewhere in between, 1 9 1/2. Longwings give you less leeway with weight, even 1/4 of an ounce can make the difference between a good flight or none at all. Where abouts are you, there might be someone who can give you a second opinion. Hang in there mate, dont give up, longwings can be a headache but worth it in the end.

[KevGem1]

I am in the northwest of england, it sounds like i should aim for 1lb 9 &half and see how i go on from there. I haven't had to be so paticular about weight control since i sold my male goss. My female harris will fly at an oz either way as you probably already know for yourself as harris's are that way inclined. It looks like i will have to get my weight management head back on and see how i go from there.

Hope you understand this is my first falcon and i am much a learner as the bird is, but i would much rather bite the bullet and ask advice from people than damage the bird or loose it. Hope you understand

Many thanks

kev

[Shaun Byrne]

No probs mate, I've flown a few now and I'm not afraid to ask questions, in fact I'm a pain in the ar5e if I need to know something and i think you have the answer lol!!

[Saker71]

Hi

i had a saker do the same when he land on the ground i hide the lure and walk away from him and call again and now he is doing great but before that fly your bird for one pass only for a while if he doing that and hopfully if he go up let him up for 5 or 10 min and call him and give him the lure more time he spend flying more he become fit and then then make more pass and slowly and good luck

[Shaun Byrne]

Saker 71, where are you from if you dont mind me asking. Some of your posts are written in perfect English and some are broken as though you are from abroad somewhere, just curious.

[Saker71]

you are right mate I am from Italy sorry my english not perfect
but i hope it is understandable

[Wightwings]

i just thought it was cause he was a sweaty........... :lol: :oops: :wink:

[Shaun Byrne]

Keep getting a feeling we've met before S71?? lol!!

[Saker71]

We might did it is a small world what do you fly ?