Moulting..............

[Saker-Clive]

Another 12-15 weeks left of hunting, so when do you guys put your harris's, red-tails etc. down to moult?
I usually put Kier down around April; usually in the first 2 weeks. I start by letting him gorge for a couple of days to get the 'greed' out of him, then start in increase his daily intake until he reaches a happy medium.

[Ian Wileman]

I am hoping both my new birds (manned at top weight), will still fbe feeding on my fist well into the moult this year mate.....female harris fed this time at 2lb 10 1/2oz Male Harris at 1lb 11oz so hoping to get them back there and beyond whilst still on the fist.

[Saker-Clive]

I still man Kier through the moult but not as much as I do now. He's good like that, we've always had that bond.

[The Late Lord Lucan]

Ian wrote....female harris fed this time at 2lb 10 1/2oz Male Harris at 1lb 11oz so hoping to get them back there and beyond whilst still on the fist

What are these birds respective flying weights Ian, if you don't mind me asking?

Regards,
LLL.

[Darren]

1. does anyone fly their bird through the moult ?
2. does anyone have a summer bird & a winter bird so one is moulting while the other is flying?

Daz

[Saker-Clive]

I've got the Saker to fly in the summer months.

[Darren]

Clive do you lay the saker up over winter to moult out?
and use ur Harris over the winter

[Saker-Clive]

I will after this year, Zarbu is going through this winter as I've been told that she won't moult as she was 'this years' bird.
I was told the same with Kier in his first year but I put him down and fed him up so he moulted.
I might ask Varmint and see what he thinks! I reckon she will moult if I fed her up.

[The Late Lord Lucan]

SS wrote.....I've been told that she won't moult as she was 'this years' bird.

A bird that hatches in the spring and is raised through the early part of summer will begin to moult in the spring of the following year.
All of the late birds I have seen, i.e. raised in the Autumn/early winter have also started to moult in the spring of the following year.

Regards,
Lucky.

[IAmTheWeasel]

I beleive that the moult is more related to the lengths of the day rather than the amount of time between moults. I tried this with my last bird to get her to moult faster and it worked. I put her under lights starting about mid February. She started to moult in the beginning of March and she was done with the moult in just passed the begining of August. Not saying this will work every time....But I was told to try this and it worked for me. I would basicly just extend each days light by a few hours.

[The Late Lord Lucan]

I beleive that the moult is more related to the lengths of the day rather than the amount of time between moults

That is the basic theory behind it all. It doesn't always work as simply as that. Providing artificial light does work in some instances, but not others.
Some birds also seem to moult quicker than others.
On her last moult, my female peregrine dropped her first feather at the beginning of May, her last feather was down & hard by the first week of August. I had to put an extra perch in to help her, she dropped so many feathers, she couldn't make it to the 4ft high perch, let alone the 6ft one!
I've never had a bird moult so fast, but I've certainly had plenty that hadn't finnished until December!

Regards,
Lucky.

[Jiff]

i was thinking of doing lure work through the summer months to keep things going,i know theres mixed thoughts on this, i know some members are commercial and fly at demos,i would imagine the summer months being bussy with the public and so birds being flown through the moult has anyone experienced any poor moults because of this.

[The Late Lord Lucan]

Jiff wrote...has anyone experienced any poor moults because of this.

Not personally, but a friend of mine flew many birds during the summer months. None of them had a good, full moult.
Given the choice, he wouldn't have done it, and he certainly never did it with any of the birds he hunted with.

Regards,
LLL.

[Jiff]

interesting lucky, cheers mate.

[The Late Lord Lucan]

Not sure how you house your bird during the moult, but just free lofting her will make quite a difference.
Not letting her get too fat will also make a big difference.
I like to keep mine at a max of 10% above flying weight.
Imagine if you were a footballer, and out of season, you ate as much as you could. You have a lot more work to do to get fit again for the next season.......if your only slightly overweight, you have less work to do.

Regards,
Lucky.

[Shaun Byrne]

I agree LL, I used to feed my birds right up for moulting but get just the same results 3-4 oz over flying weight. I also weigh them every other day to keep the routine up.

[Wightwings]

good point Shaun. we have alway continued to weight and man our birds through the mould and never let them go too "wild". mind you we also used to do display work so this dictated a lot of what we did as the birds never really "wentdown" untouched to moult.

sounds daft but there seems nothing more natural than seeing birds sat out in the summer sun or bathing on a nice summers day as you garden, everyone contented and easy around each other. to do that you need to keep them manned and happy but still heavy enough for the new feathers to develop, its nice after a hard cold "hungry"winter for all concerned and increases the bond for the next season.

[Shaun Byrne]

I never let my birds get MOULDY mate pmsl!!!
I have even kept one or two birds going on the creance for the last month or so of the moult, still keeping their weight high. Once the last feathers are down and hardened off they can be out flying within a couple of weeks.

[Wightwings]

pmsl........just re read it Shaun.......i had had couple of sherberts by then........ :roll:

[Ian Wileman]

Ian wrote....female harris fed this time at 2lb 10 1/2oz Male Harris at 1lb 11oz so hoping to get them back there and beyond whilst still on the fist

What are these birds respective flying weights Ian, if you don't mind me asking?

Regards,
LLL.

no mate, these are the fat weights I had them feeding off the fist at when I first started with them...I am hoping to get them back here and beyond on the fist through the moult.

[The Late Lord Lucan]

Ian wrote.......no mate, these are the fat weights I had them feeding off the fist at when I first started with them...I am hoping to get them back here and beyond on the fist through the moult

I read this through a couple of times to make sure that I hadn't misread.......
I realised that these were the 'fat' weights, that was why I asked their flying weights, I was just going to do an approximate calculation as to what percentage they might have been overweight from their 'flying' condition.........
You have probably read my previous post, so you will now realise where I was going on this one.
I used to moult my birds, basically as fat as they would go, then, after experimentation, realised that I was just giving myself a bucket load of extra work. I also realised, through education from experienced falconers and also leading vets, that I was putting untold amount of pressure upon the health of my bird......

Regards,
Lucky.

[Varmint]

Moulting is a fickle subject and a book could be written just on this topic?

It really depends on what you fly, the species and sometimes the individual as to when and how you moult them?

I fly several dozen birds thru the moult, flying many of the more experienced birds at their top weights, allow's them to moult slowly, but they are handled and flown carefully at this time!

Id Agree with LLL with regard to not letting some birds get too fat during the moult' cholestoral ect, ect, but there are several types of bird that this wont work for, for example Owls!

Mine need to be stuffed to even think about dropping feathers, and we are talking 25-30% fatter than their flying weights!

My Eagles, are the opposite, i can only push them 10-15% higher before they topp out and wont eat any more.

Falcons, Hawks and Buzzards will moult at seamingly lower body condition, and seem to have a faster moult if not too high?

The birds which i use in the summer usually go down around Oct , Nov and they than have what i call an "emergency moult", dropping most flight feathers quickly and in not such a predictable order.

I do this out of Necessety, i wouldn't advise it to the individual.

Old Wives tail about Honey Seems to work well also?? for years i have given just a small drip of honey on the birds food once a week, and it does speed up the moult? but i dont give too much...

In addition, i dont feed a high protein diet to my HH's, finding that they moult better on bulk, low protein items such as rabbit.

Owls= Rat, Mice, Rabbit and some DOC
Falcons= Doc, Pheasant, Fresh Quail, Frozen Pigeon meat.
Eagles= Rabbit and some Quail.

Finally, Jiff i read your Earlier Post about your HH's white tail base? if it's tipped i would reccomend getting down to moult rather than trying to fly him/her thru the summer! even late birds of the year( Oct/Nov Hatch) will start to moult the following spring if they feel in good condition.

Your bird need's it full tail to do the job it does!
ANd this is another important point! if your bird has any bent or Broken Tail feathers, it's important to imp them before the moult, as new feathers rely on the counterparts for guidance in growth and shape, with out the support of their neighbours, they can grow bent ect.

Tail mounts need to be removed as their presence can damage or bend developing feathers!

We could go on for ever,

For the perfect moult, i would put a bird down in early March. :wink:

[Wes]

Varmint, I'm new to this site, so I don't know everyone yet. So don't take this wrong, just asking your opinion. Do you have any experience with diet for molting R/T's, are do you just work with other birds?
Wes

[Varmint]

Yes Wes, i used to breed RT's!

Like most Buteo's, they can hold on to weight well in warm weather and dont really need any fancy moulting diet.

Bunny is great as it serves two purposes, firstly it allows your bird to take a large crop, without putting on loads of weight, and benefitting it's digestive system massivley, secondly, the carcass's help to keep your bird occupied and Beaks and talons trim.

They also keep your birds focus on this particular quarry item thru out the moult.

If i lived in the states, i would almost certainly introduce live quail occasionally too, keeping old Red mentally and physically keen.

There are no hard and fast rules, try it and let us know?

Hope this helps? :wink:

[Ian Wileman]

Ian wrote.......no mate, these are the fat weights I had them feeding off the fist at when I first started with them...I am hoping to get them back here and beyond on the fist through the moult

I read this through a couple of times to make sure that I hadn't misread.......
I realised that these were the 'fat' weights, that was why I asked their flying weights, I was just going to do an approximate calculation as to what percentage they might have been overweight from their 'flying' condition.........
You have probably read my previous post, so you will now realise where I was going on this one.
I used to moult my birds, basically as fat as they would go, then, after experimentation, realised that I was just giving myself a bucket load of extra work. I also realised, through education from experienced falconers and also leading vets, that I was putting untold amount of pressure upon the health of my bird......

Regards,
Lucky.

Hi Lucky......you have me misunderstood....when I say 'fat' weight, as I manned these birds at the highest weight I could, I mean exactly that...the highest weight the birds would allow me to man them and remain steady......the female is now flying at 2lb 4 1/2oz, the male at 1lb 8oz. I am hoping that I can get these birds back up to and beyond these 'top weights' AND STILL handle them throught this next moult. After all, the whole idea of my manning at top weight was for exactly this. So with 'Luck' (pardon the pun), I will be abl to continue manning my birds throught the moult at as high a weight as possible (so I do not get any problems with stress marks etc), and 'keep in touch with the birds at the same time'. Hope this explains things kiddo....cheers. If not.....read my diary 'willow'. :lol:

[Wes]

Last year I had a different Bird, Feed her rabbit, squirrel, rat, nutria, keep her manned, didn't fly her, but did weigh, glove, little jumps or hops every few days, keep weight about 5% above trap weight, molted perfect.
This year new bird, I have not decided yet, but looking for opinions, probaly 10% - 20% above high hunting weight, this bird is a little harder to take weight off of, every bird metabolisms are different as you well know.
Thanks Wes

[North East Harris Hawker]

i normally put my girl down after she catches her first baby rabbit.thats close enough to spring for me