Teaching HIGH pitch!

[Hawkmaster]

For the benefit of other USA and international countries, why not explain your use of bagged pigeons to make your falcon gain high picthes?

[BarbaryHawking06]

For the benefit of other USA and international countries, why not explain your use of bagged pigeons to make your falcon gain high picthes?

The technique as I use it is described perfectly in "Duck Hawking" by Joe Roy III. the book came out after I used this technique successfully as the Spanish falconers, where I learned game hawking do the same.
It works as a combination out of difficult/easy pigeons in combinations with thermals to gain that super high pitches in the beginning, but it would be too long and time demanding to write it down here, I would suggest securing a copy for those who want their bird at that pitch.
Forgot to say, training with pigeons, if done properly, will not make your falcon rake after pigeons in bad moments but rather keep them from doing so, because by the time you go gamehawking they should have learned that any pigeon apart from those out of the bag are a fruitless attack. Just to think about!

[Hawkmaster]

Thank you for that but unfortunately this is an International Forum and not everyone can get it, afford it or some other reason, so it would be great for folks to come forward and explain there methods.;)

[Mark Collins]

Basicaly, its a fast pigeon to take the falcon up , thrown out when the falcon is out of position , then when she comes back higher , which she should do after a few days , she is served again , but only if she is at a good pitch , and over the falconer, one method was fast pigeon that she couldnt catch , one when she was well placed and high that she could, alternativly fast pigeon, then a partridge .

[Jack]

What do you do if the falcon does not come back over at a pitch? Keep doing it until she does? And what if she chases the pigeon off out of sight? And what if she chases it down in someones barn and kills it? What if? What if?

Jack

[Wendy]

I Start off with a lure to teach the falcon to wait on and then after, I start using fast flying pigeons (that you know the falcon wont be able to catch but entered at it !) to make the falcon climb up. I can throw several pigeons at a same training session to keep my falcons attention if it goes on a tail chase for exemple or goes off position. Once it is well set and higher than previous times I serve a hun or an easy pigeon or pheasant that I have removed some of the primaries for the initial stages only. I may do it again later in a day. Then call it a day. Eventually it will mount well especially if a light wind is blowing. I like my birds to stay around 500-700ft despite of my terrain. When the falcon improves in confidence and physically I make "escapes" more difficult and fast, then switch on wild prey.

it took me about half hour to write this down so forgive my bad english please

Wendy

[MattSpar]

Do the Americans not have a common species of wild pigeon as we do the wood pigeon?

In the UK, legallity aside, wouldn't it just teach them to go off chasing woodies?

[CanadaManada]

I Start off with a lure to teach the falcon to wait on and then after, I start using fast flying pigeons (that you know the falcon wont be able to catch but entered at it !) to make the falcon climb up. I can throw several pigeons at a same training session to keep my falcons attention if it goes on a tail chase for exemple or goes off position. Once it is well set and higher than previous times I serve a hun or an easy pigeon or pheasant that I have removed some of the primaries for the initial stages only. I may do it again later in a day. Then call it a day. Eventually it will mount well especially if a light wind is blowing. I like my birds to stay around 500-700ft despite of my terrain. When the falcon improves in confidence and physically I make "escapes" more difficult and fast, then switch on wild prey.

it took me about half hour to write this down so forgive my bad english please

Wendy

Your English is fine, Wendy. Glad to have you on the forum.

Justin

[OutHawkn]

Do the Americans not have a common species of wild pigeon as we do the wood pigeon?

In the UK, legallity aside, wouldn't it just teach them to go off chasing woodies?


Yes we do have a common pigeon,barn pigeon,rock pigeon,etc. And once in awhile a falcon does check at them but we have so much space over here its not a real problem. I'm sure there must be certain localities that have more or less than I do. But it happens so seldom its just not a problem. They also learn to ignore pigeons that are to far awy to catch(hopefully)

Let me also say like all things in falconry there are many ways and variances to accomplish the same thing. So this is just the way I do it. After teaching the falcon to come to the lure. I take the falcon out as usual and cast it off. I show the falcon the lure ,as the falcon begins to come into the lure I hide it. This casues the falcon to briefly hesitate over me (wait on) it only lasts for a few seconds. Then toss the lure to the groung and the falcon stoops and begins to eat. I let her have her normal ration. The next day I do the same thing, this time making her wait a few more seconds then toss the lure. Then do the same thing and make her wait even longer, at some point she will go around for another pass. I toss the lure. She is now waiting on. Its only 20 feet above the ground but thats ok. Then I take two pigeons with me, one is a strong well experienced homing pigeon that has flown under a falcon many times, the other a young inexperienced bird. I cast off the falcon as she is mounting I watch her. When she is climbing and facing away from me I toss the strong pigeon. She attempts to catch it. There isnt much chance of that happening. But I want her to try. as she chassing the pigeon the pigeon will use its natural instinct to out fly the hawk. They do this by staying above the falcon. So now the falcon is climbing up as she tires she will break off. Now she is hundreds of feet in the air(hopefully) . As she bigins to look for you she will come back overhead to some degree at least. Now you toss the young inexperienced pigeon. The falcon falls and POOF, its a dead pigeon. She has just learned the advantage of height. The next day I do the same thing. What you have just taught your falcon that when she leaves your fist and mounts at some point game will magically appear. Now I do a few more days and take more strong pigeons with me. I do the same thing but I want her to miss the fist pigeon and come back over head, I give her another strong flyer. I may do this for aweek. I'm teaching her that if she misses the first time to come back over head and try again. This doesnt take long at all. Now you have a falcon that will mount rapidly and if she misses the first time will come back over head to wait for asnother shot. Now go hunting. Just make sure the falcon is going up and away from you when you flush.
I have also been experimenting with using the kite and while its fun, a well bred bird doesnt need it. Wild birds are a great choice obviuosly, captive bred birds you should now your breeder.
I am sure at some point in time I will stop using the kite and return to the above method.

[Hawkmaster]

OK just to make it interesting?

What if. . . .

Your falcon mounts then comes overhead and as it does it stoops at you in anticipation of a baggie?

Or once it gets to its pitch and then from there it starts to stops to you?:twisted:

[CanadaManada]

OK just to make it interesting?

What if. . . .

Your falcon mounts then comes overhead and as it does it stoops at you in anticipation of a baggie?

Or once it gets to its pitch and then from there it starts to stops to you?:twisted:

My understanding is that you don't let her see the baggie come from your hand. It comes from behind you. I was also told that this rule was for peres. It seems other species are more forgiving. But I'm just saying what I've been told.

[OutHawkn]

OK just to make it interesting?

What if. . . .

Your falcon mounts then comes overhead and as it does it stoops at you in anticipation of a baggie?

Or once it gets to its pitch and then from there it starts to stops to you?:twisted:

The falcon never realizes that its a baggie. You never let them see it leave your hand. Remember , you always toss the pigeon as the falcon is going up and away from you. So as far as the falcon is concerned its getting a reward for mounting. This way they never realize that you are giving them game. They do soon realize that game comes while they are above you and climbing;A falcon soon learns to mount well and attain a high pitch. Like all things in falconry though you can over do it. As soon as your falcon is doing the above things, go hawking.
This whole process doesnt take anytime at all. a week or two at most. But it depends on the falcon and the falconer. A well bred falcon learns it quickly. on the other hand if the falconer doesnt understand what he is doing you can ruin the falcon. If you ever hear of someone thats thrown a lot of pigeons and the falcon doesnt "get it" I'd bet the falconer was at fault and doesnt know what he/she is doing.JMO

[Mark Collins]

What do you do if the falcon does not come back over at a pitch? Keep doing it until she does? And what if she chases the pigeon off out of sight? And what if she chases it down in someones barn and kills it? What if? What if?

Jack

Hi Jack ,thats the old method that you americans started ,we as you know cant use [bagged quarry] , nowadays its so much easer with the aid of the kite, cheers,mark.

[Pete Kent]

I used a kite and the 'pigeon method' on a particularly lazy female Peregrine who decided she would not mount to any decent pitch. It worked very well, in fact I'm taking her out to fly partridge and pheasant tomorrow.

She now mounts high quite quickly and has stopped her bad habit of 'sitting' on the nearest telegraph pole.