Please help me, my bird is in a bad way [Archive]

OhMyGod

10-01-2005, 03:54 PM

please can someone help? I have had my pere/saker on a cadge at my parents for a few days in the garage. little did I know the tumble drier was blowing strait on her through a pipe, now she will not put her crop over (been there 36 hours now) and she is low, what should I do!!

Shaun Byrne

10-01-2005, 04:05 PM

Get her to a vet asap mate! Dont try and mess about yourself, keep her warm and calm and get her there asap.

Want-a-Saker.

10-01-2005, 04:07 PM

Get to a vet quickly!

Claire

10-01-2005, 04:07 PM

yep straight to a vet

Darren

10-01-2005, 04:07 PM

like H4wka says get her to the vet now, so he can ***** her.
Ley us know the outcome.

Want-a-Saker.

10-01-2005, 04:08 PM

Oopps..to slow!
Good luck mate....

Hawkmaster

10-01-2005, 04:27 PM

OMG, WELCOME TO THE FORUM!

Where do you live?

OhMyGod

10-01-2005, 04:32 PM

thanks everyone but surely vets are closed now I live in bury st edmunds where can i go? i cant believe i missed this one after all this time

The Late Lord Lucan

10-01-2005, 04:36 PM

If you can't get to a vet NOW, then you need to get someone who knows what they are doing to 'milk' the food from the crop.
When you have done this, I would advise 'crop tubing' the bird with some glucose solution.
You need to get all of this done pretty smartish, if the food has been in the crop for 24hrs, it will be starting to rot. This is most definately bad news for the bird.

Regards,
LLL.

Claire

10-01-2005, 04:44 PM

its not too late for a vet have you tried calling and said its an emergency.

Darren

10-01-2005, 04:46 PM

they will open up for an emergency....call them

OhMyGod

10-01-2005, 04:49 PM

cool i go to one now

Shaun Byrne

10-01-2005, 04:56 PM

If you've never milked a bird before please dont try mate, if any of the crop contents leak back into the birds airway she is finished.

Saker Mad

10-01-2005, 05:54 PM

phone raptor rescue if you cant find a vet they will be able to help they may know someone qualifyed near to you to sort the bird out

Saker Mad

10-01-2005, 05:55 PM

if your still reading posts get to the blooody vet

OhMyGod

10-01-2005, 08:27 PM

cool, clean crop now, and a bag of lectade which I had to ask for! I'm sure these vets arnt always clued up, I thought they may euthanase her whilst trying to anethatize her, counting the crop weight and all.

I really think this warm moist air has done damage, maybe pneumonia or somthing any ideas why she has not put the crop over.

I go back at 9am for better advice from different vet

thanks all happy hawking

hey andy do you work in a zoo? do i know you?

Claire

10-01-2005, 08:34 PM

if a bird gets really low it physicly cant put it over thats why you shouldnt feed a bird that has gone low untill it picks up a bit which is why you crop tube I'm no expert but this is what Ive been told

Saker Mad

10-01-2005, 08:35 PM

pleased to hear your birds ok keep us informed

Falcon

10-01-2005, 08:39 PM

WElcome aboard OMG! Yeah keep us informed as to how your bird is, don't ever think twice about phoning a vet and saying it's an emergency, especially when you are dealing with a raptor! All the best mate!
Falcon

HawkMan

10-01-2005, 08:40 PM

Hoope your bird gets better m8 you should have it in a proper mew though ?

OhMyGod

10-01-2005, 08:42 PM

cool clair but she was fine when i fed her and now she is empty she is only 75g down. i would like to know what the sighns of pneumonia are if anyone has seen it before, i am worried she may have somthing like that

OhMyGod

10-01-2005, 08:44 PM

proper mew?

Hawkmaster

10-01-2005, 09:31 PM

Mews, as it should be properly know, is a place that is used to keep your hawk or from the french word moult, a place to moult the bird out in safely.

Wightwings

10-01-2005, 10:09 PM

glad you have it sorted omg........gotta ask tho how many birds have you had in the past?????? you dont keep her in the garage perm do you?

sorry to pry just had to ask.

HawkMan

10-01-2005, 10:21 PM

Im not trying to be funny with her i just find it unproper keeping it in a garage in a cage .
johnny

OhMyGod

10-01-2005, 10:25 PM

I kept many birds in the past, however I have been visiting family and had to take my falcon with, rather wanted to take her. She is 8 months and is still taking rooks, gulls on a daily basis. I put her on a cadge in the garage. nice and safe. but not so safe this time eh. I didn't realise the drier hose was there pointing right at her. silly mistake I know. I am usually far too paranoid. I dont even put her in the boot, my cadge goes in the car. I fly her from my sun roof when I'm not on a tip.

Claire

10-01-2005, 10:26 PM

its not a her ohmygod is a he but I would hope the garage was tempary

Wightwings

10-01-2005, 10:38 PM

i must admit omg i do find some of the things you say a little out of the ordinary, but the main issue is the bird was caught in time and hopefully will pull thro.

good luck

HawkMan

10-01-2005, 10:40 PM

I wish aswell for a speedy recovery

OhMyGod

10-01-2005, 11:00 PM

heah, I don't keep my birds in cages johnny ya wolly.

just on cadges indoors at night as I don't like boxes they don't get aired enough and they give your falcons square wings.

white wings I'm an out of the ordinary kind o guy, thanks for all your help everyone I never been on a forum before and didn't expect this kind of responce and well wishing

Wightwings

10-01-2005, 11:03 PM

heah, I don't keep my birds in cages johnny ya wolly.

just on cadges indoors at night

RPMSL.........best laugh for a while never picked up on that me self :lol: :lol:

Claire

10-01-2005, 11:09 PM

yeah i never saw it lol think johnny needs to look in the glossary for cadge lol

Jay

10-01-2005, 11:47 PM

Wow my respect for you just went up. I know the falconry meaning of cadge, but it never crossed my mind when reading the posts. Hope the birds doing well and welcome to the forum.

OhMyGod

11-01-2005, 12:02 AM

cheers dude

Kevin Massey

11-01-2005, 12:04 AM

omg.....what are u on? you took the time to search for the site,log in, and post wait for responces, then go find a vet and get the falcon sorted,

plus why take advice from somewhere and people you dont know and have'nt visited before? (soz lads and lassies it aint sposed to sound as bad as that.....he dont know us and who is giving advice)....

any with an oz of the common stuff would have done the search in the yellow pages.......not the world wide web.

.................................................. .................................................. ......

well dig over.....hope she it ok

kev

OhMyGod

11-01-2005, 12:20 AM

dude I hope no nasty **** happens to your birds when your least expecting it. I was freaking out a bit, I spent about £2000 on petrol driving about east anglia looking for good gull slips every single day man, do you think I don't want to do the right thing by this bird. I was always within critical timing limits, I'm not too worried about the crop its the pneumonia I wanted to get information on. I got the crop emptied ok but I could have done it myself if i had a bird like a harris or buzzard but this bird is my livelyhood and apart from that it is worth too much to me I have still recieved no help with water on the lungs and am still at a loss to what to do, the vets I saw knew ****. I don't need petty critisism I needed help with pneumonia

Kevin Massey

11-01-2005, 12:34 AM

nasties happening to my one of my birds.......dont go there.........but even then it was a sunday...........and she was seen by a vet @about 5.30 !!!....i met him @ the surgery...so i know how shi t can hit the fan.......but i knew how to phone a vet !!!

OhMyGod

11-01-2005, 12:43 AM

cool i have to administer more lectade in an hour with no one to cast my bird up. pretty tricky. most vets i've seen in the past have had little or no idea about birds of prey. I have phoned a few in my area but I feel they do not know what to do about pneumonia. I still have had no positive advice at all, and forbsy will not give advise to anyone who is not a vet treating my bird. I just seem to get hold of vets who are more like rolf harris than avian experts

OhMyGod

11-01-2005, 12:46 AM

hey andy do you fly that bird in the pic,

ps I'm nice guy

Gaz

11-01-2005, 01:03 PM

but I could have done it myself if i had a bird like a harris or buzzard
Thats the most stupid ,offensive post i have seen on the forum to date,cant belive it,read all through this....got nothing to say :!: :!:

OhMyGod

11-01-2005, 02:12 PM

lol

Bill

11-01-2005, 04:11 PM

On the subjects of vets. Back in November I asked

Just in case, does anyone know of a good raptor vet around Leicester

I got no replies, so to help everyone I will start a topic "Your nearest vet".

It would be good if everyone who knows of a reasonable vet could post a name and phone number and an indication of the skills of the vet.

Hawkmaster

11-01-2005, 04:50 PM

There is already such a section:
http://www.falconryforum.co.uk/index.php?c=41

Coedhirion

11-01-2005, 05:40 PM

but I could have done it myself if i had a bird like a harris or buzzard

Dont believe he said that!!! Obviously got no experience of hunting with a switched on Harris. Sure is a case of Oh My God. try reading a Martin Hollinshead book or article if you want to know about Harris Hawks !! He sums up very nicely especialy about people who snear at H.H's. Don't know what OMG paid for his lively hood bird but wouldnt let him near my male harris for £5,000 & didn't cages go out with the ark !!! sumit about them causing death to birds, know I have read lotsa articles all saying the same !!!!

BrianM

11-01-2005, 05:55 PM

he actually said that he kept his bird on a cadge not cage.... look it up Coedhirion... i know the guy has been stupid but we should be educating him in the ways of the force..... not driving him away to the dark side

Claire

11-01-2005, 05:58 PM

a cadge doesnt have to have the old design My boss used a cadge to cary 2 falcons into the arena when she was flying a cast. She had made it herself and it was totally safe. theres no need to jump to conclusions

BrianM

11-01-2005, 06:02 PM

well said clair.. theres far too much jumping to conclusions, and running people down on here,,

Jiff

11-01-2005, 06:08 PM

my oppinion is,regardless of what bird you'r going to own,it's vital that you learn what to do should things go wrong,he obviously overlooked this part of the preperation,(and i would imagine he aint the only one),he nearly paid the price,i would also guess that if he's bird was crop milked by an inadequate vet then theres every chance of more complications,cadges,bow perches! no differance realy so you can't knock that one. i would advise anyone to atleast read up on basic first aid or get on a course,the simple administration of some saline solution every few hours could have moved the crop.

Shaun Byrne

11-01-2005, 06:08 PM

I use a 6 Falcon Cadge all the time, it fits lovely in the back of my truck. I've never had any problems at all. I do agree Coed though, why is it easier to treat a HH than a Longwing? Maybe OMG thinks HH or Buzzards are more disposable??

OhMyGod

11-01-2005, 07:09 PM

coedhirion I wouldn't want a go with your mantling harris, but anyway I have had a couple harris myself and caught much food, any yes in good style by flying from the hood though not self hunting. they are too clever. I read the book dude I got it right here and in my experience cadges are by far the safest way to keep your longwings long and f perfect. me bird is on the mend now will take me a while to get her fit enough for gulls again. this forum is great people are sooo funny.

BrianM

11-01-2005, 07:17 PM

OhMyGod

11-01-2005, 07:19 PM

cool, I never killed a bird either, lost one though in south africa, passage peregrinus miner

The Late Lord Lucan

11-01-2005, 07:23 PM

BrianM wrote......
or have the people on here just jumped straight into"near pro" status

Nicely summed up there......... :wink:

Regards,
LLL.

Jester

11-01-2005, 07:27 PM

why do you think omg thinks hh or buzzards are disposable did he say that ??? or can you read minds ? maybe he was presuming that because there a little bigger its easier to do ?? i dont know? but again we have a guy who wants help but instead he gets abuse... ive made mistakes in the past (never killed a bird mind) and i am damn sure most of if not all of the people on here have done as well or have the people on here just jumped straight into"near pro" status

i was beginning to wonder the same myself. :?:

if that is the response people get they may be put off asking for advice then go on and do whatever and kill their bird cos they were scared some members in here give them a hard time instead of advice. :roll:

this isnt the first time i have seen this happen either

OhMyGod

11-01-2005, 07:29 PM

I love this place its great!

BrianM

11-01-2005, 07:31 PM

hi jester.... dont know about you but i am getting a little p1ssed of with it all ... the time between visits to the forum are getting longer ,,,,,, any ideas why ???

OhMyGod

11-01-2005, 07:33 PM

cos everyons talking ******x

GlennB

11-01-2005, 07:36 PM

I belong to several forums and you get the same on them, but you always get good advise too, which is all that matters.
At least you aren't taking the 'bad' comments to heart and seem to enjoying the forum!!!!
Anyway OMG, am glad that your bird is on the mend!

The Late Lord Lucan

11-01-2005, 07:42 PM

Jester wrote..
some members in here give them a hard time instead of advice.

this isnt the first time i have seen this happen either

Do the words UKFalconry & De ja Vu spring to mind?

Regards,
Lucky.

Jester

11-01-2005, 07:44 PM

no not ****ed off at all i love it here. :) and spend hours and hours

fortunately i havent had to ask for serious advice yet but if i did i would probably do it by PM

The Late Lord Lucan

11-01-2005, 07:46 PM

Oh My God wrote.......
cos everyons talking ******x

I guess that will be a thankyou to those who did try to help.........

OhMyGod

11-01-2005, 07:50 PM

no no I already responded to helpfull types via pm or whatever, and have said time again, thanks. looking pretty swish for a 70 yr old there lll

BrianM

11-01-2005, 07:51 PM

thats what i do jester.... as it stops you from being derided

Sprout

11-01-2005, 09:12 PM

Bit of a lesson for all I think, no need to start arguing! The amount of teaching regards avian patients at vet school is probably less than what Neil Forbes covers in his first aid lectures so most vets admittedly are clueless, however that is no excuse for you to blame vets. If you put some effort into finding a vet with an interest in birds (and there are some of us around) prior to an emergency then there will be no need to panic when one is required. As far as pneumonia goes then depends upon what your vets did. When trying to milk the crop aspirational pneumonia is a huge risk so shouldn't really be contemplated without anaesthesia when an endotracheal tube can be placed to protect the airway from inhaling the crop contents. I would imagine your bird has been put on broad spectrum antibiotics anyway after emptying the sour crop, if not it owuld be a good idea! So long as a tube was placed prior to emptying the crop and antibiotics are used then every posisble precaution has been taken.

BrianM

11-01-2005, 09:15 PM

welcome sprout.. if i havent already said so

OhMyGod

11-01-2005, 09:17 PM

ok great, thanks. I think the treatment cost £220 pounds. but my bird still has had no diagnosis of its illness and I am not sure she will be fit to fly again, at the moment I'm just crossing fingers....... again thanks

Sprout

11-01-2005, 09:22 PM

As in a lot of cases you won't get a diagnosis, sour crop is a relatively common problem and can be due to a number of reasons. The main thing is how quickly it is dealt with and how the bird responds. The main thing is fluid therapy, antibiotics and as you say fingers crossed. If the bird has come through the ordeal don't see any reason why it shouldn't gey back to flying as usual.

Shaun Byrne

11-01-2005, 09:26 PM

Hello (again) Sprout, nice to see at least one vet has taken the time to comment lol!! Lost track with this thread, I think i was thanked then spanked!! lmao!!

Falcon

11-01-2005, 09:26 PM

Glad to hear it's improving slowly mate! Chin up!

Sprout

11-01-2005, 09:28 PM

Would have responded quicker but been sleeping lots after weekend on call!

OhMyGod

11-01-2005, 09:32 PM

thing is she must have had the tumble drier pumping hot moist air directly onto her for an hour or more, this is why she did not put the crop over?? I don't understand why that would do that to her. also not much fluid is coming out of her nostrils like it usually does, she seems dried up

Bubo

11-01-2005, 10:29 PM

Hello and welcome sprout, I've not had the opportunity to say this before. A sound piece of info there thank you.
bubo

The Late Lord Lucan

11-01-2005, 11:12 PM

Ohmygod wrote....
also not much fluid is coming out of her nostrils like it usually does, she seems dried up

Continuous nasal discharge is not normal.
I may be wrong, I'm no vet, but 'Rhinitis' is ringing some bells as one possible cause of nasal discharge.
Hopefully Sprout may be able to shed more light on some of the things that cause nasal discharge...........

Sounds like this bird of yours really needs a thorough check over from an experienced vet.

Regards,
LLL.

Kevin Massey

13-01-2005, 10:42 PM

well i cant take this topic for real !!!..........nor the user that started it !!!

is there such thing as a new-years-fool?

kev

OutOnAWing

24-02-2005, 09:00 PM

hi,omg i know its probally a bit far to travel but for a good vet try the grove in either fakenham,swaffam or dereham ask for richard saunders. he's had a year with niel forbes,and a course with mima and has no problems in phoning forbes,brown or any other vet worldwideif he thinks its nessecery

p.s. hi clare, how you doing,tina & tim

OutOnAWing

24-02-2005, 09:06 PM

lll, do you know a man called billy

The Late Lord Lucan

24-02-2005, 09:10 PM

Out on a Wing wrote...
lll, do you know a man called billy

I know a few people called Billy, can you elaborate?

Regards,
Lucky.

OutOnAWing

24-02-2005, 09:17 PM

tall man,breeds bloody good good harris' knows a ex-game keeper called lucky who doesn't live very far from us

Shaun Byrne

24-02-2005, 09:24 PM

The net is closing, Lucky!! lol!!

The Late Lord Lucan

24-02-2005, 09:25 PM

Sorry mate, not me!

Regards,
Lucky.

OhMyGod

24-02-2005, 09:27 PM

cheers outonawing I went to fakenham in 98 and saw some bloke who said he knew what he was doing, turned out he had never taken bramble thorns out of spars eyes before and seemed to think I wanted it back with one eye. He still sent me a bill for 150 quid, I told him to keep the cyclops and he had a go at me for wanting it euthanased. surpose I could have used it for cleaning the bog.

Oh yeah who are you by the way, do I know you?

OutOnAWing

24-02-2005, 09:33 PM

you could have put it in for breeding,waste not wont not. we're called out on a wing falconry in norfolk,

The Late Lord Lucan

24-02-2005, 09:44 PM

Sorry mate, not me!

My apologies for calling you 'mate', Outonawing.......
I just checked your 'personal details' and noticed that you are a young lady.

Sorry!

Regards,
Lucky.

OutOnAWing

24-02-2005, 09:49 PM

lll,thats alright luv,i guess in the falconry world its still mainly men out there still,but us geezer-birds are catching up

OhMyGod

24-02-2005, 09:52 PM

this bird was not a perticularly good hunting bird and was the smallest of 3 females and I don't agree with breeding these poor quality birds as it leeds to problems for others. Let's at least try and breed with quality, quantity is not the answer, 8 1/2 oz female? no thanks

Bubo

24-02-2005, 09:53 PM

but why euthanise a bird with just one eye?

OutOnAWing

24-02-2005, 09:54 PM

fair enough i didnt know that ,at least your one of these people who dont agree with breeding something thats no good at anything else

OhMyGod

24-02-2005, 10:20 PM

bubo if I said now I had a spar with one eye and I was going to inject it tomorrow would you come and take it off me? no and who would. I'm sorry our opinions clash but everyone is different, I love animals but have no time for sickly one eyed or one legged raptors sitting in an aviery looking like ****. taking up space I could do with out it. And I firmly believe injured raptors should not be on display to the public at centres or zoos. (what kind of life is sitting in an aviery for 6 years?)

Sprout

24-02-2005, 11:01 PM

25-02-2005, 03:37 AM

OhMyGod

25-02-2005, 03:42 AM

birds fine now, and yes she does produce a lot of liquid from the nostrils after feeding, more than normaul but she was clubbing gulls still up to a month ago when I fed up for moulting.

25-02-2005, 03:43 AM

that was aimed at LLL ........

Brfalco

25-02-2005, 04:17 AM

hey man, give us some news about how your bird is...

Bubo

25-02-2005, 01:29 PM

but why euthanise a bird with just one eye?
Quality of life - thats why! Why condemn a bird to life in an aviary that rightly is not a good specimen for breeding. Release is not an option so euthanasia is a justified.

i would never dream of just keeping a bird in an aviary that is not what i really meant. i'm probably going to get some come back on this as i might not get what i would like to say across in the right way.

ok this bird could not hunt as it used to but with maybe special training the bird could adapt to the new handicap and other senses would sharpen and the bird could be still be flown for pleasure and exercise. this would not appeal to you serious hunters but I would certainly take up the challenge.

BUT I do not know much about this sort of bird and i do not know if spars could adapt mentally or phsyically to this change. What i do know is owls with just one functional eye is still able to hunt, survive and compete in the wild (obviously because of the incredible hearing).

please dont take this post as as oh that little missy saving the world that is not how i mean for this to come across. what i am trying to say is could the spar not adapt using other senses?
bubo

Bubo

25-02-2005, 01:30 PM

why didnt i just come out with that last sentence instead of rambling on hehehehehehe
bubo

OhMyGod

25-02-2005, 02:07 PM

perhaps it could yes, and perhaps it could still have hunted. However birds need both eyes to judge distance and I believe a sparrowhawk with only one eye is probably one of the birds to be hindered with it most. They need to turn fast and when flown at doves or magpies they mah have a "dog fight" which can last for ages, turning and rolling in the air. I think for me at the time I was not prepared to go looking for one eyed quarry.

David & Carol Newby

25-02-2005, 04:04 PM

Birds with one eye can still hunt. Eye punctures do happen in the wild and birds live through it. What everyone needs to remember that Raptors are just birds, not pets, or collectables. I do have an owl that I use for education that has most of one wing removed but when this owl is perched for spectators to view she looks completely normal. Dave and I believe as with most people that birds for viewing should be visually pleasing so not to give the wrong message to the public. If you see a business using battered birds say something! If you keep quiet these people believe it's all right to carry on this way. Best of Luck and Have a Great Day! Carol :)

OhMyGod

25-02-2005, 05:09 PM

I DO NOT THINK IT IS RIGHT TO SHOW INJURED BIRDS FULL STOP

Sprout

25-02-2005, 11:06 PM

thats the thing i love about the internet ( theres always time to look up the symtoms and pass of the cure as yer own ) get folk thinking your somthing your NOT ..............
It's called advice and everyone is entitled to give their opinions. As it stands it is good advice!!! And by the way, I am a vet so have some idea about what I'm talking about

Colohen

26-02-2005, 02:38 AM

OMG you ask Bubo if she would take a one eyed off your hands if she knew you were going to put it down. There are many out there that would , I being one if them, For defferent reasions , educational birds is one , I agree I would not display a raptor which had a wing removed to the shoulder or hopping on one leg but if you had been over here, there would have been several edu programs that would have jumped to have such a bird . If you know our laws you could understand.

D&CN
We have been on some of the same forums so you may recall a forum post , I think in gamehawking, of a gay out west who flue a RT with one eye with as many kills as any norm RT !
My cus worked for a farm, driveing a tractor, lost his eye in a car accident. With out giveing him a chance the farmer fired him, said he would have on dept preseption to operate the tractor! His friend,who he had met while working on the farm, hired him! Now he flies a crop duster over the former employers fields.
Pont is , some time it is worth it to give a handy cap a chance !

OhMyGod

26-02-2005, 05:03 AM

dude have you ever imprinted one of these birds in your house? bit of a chore and I would not recomend it unless you have a nice gos.........not really worth it.
I was young at the time and had too much energy to waste on a "one eye" lol

ie I really like these birds get me another one of these..............NOW!!!!!

I have flown some nice parent reared passage and haggard ones since, the only trouble was the carrying (not much fun with euro spars). but I would never imprint another! certainly would not show one in school or anywhere else! let alone an injured one! ....... may as well keep it caged.

Colohen

26-02-2005, 08:57 AM

Yes OMG and I have to agree with you about imprints . So who is your bird doing now?
By the way OMG , the vet thing , there is not a vet in 600k of me that knows a dam about raptors, and none of them take emergancy cals after hours. My best bet is right here if I have a problem or emergancy I dont know !

OhMyGod

26-02-2005, 02:41 PM

my bird is doing great now thanks for asking. She has done what I wanted her to do and took many rooks and gulls, she is feather perfect still but I put her down to moult a month ago. she was very fit and healthy with good manners.

Kevin Massey

13-05-2005, 10:56 PM

mmmmmmmmm

Wightwings

13-05-2005, 11:24 PM

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm what? pm me kev post has been deleted it seems

BrianM

13-05-2005, 11:25 PM

me too please,,,,,,,

BlackHawke

13-05-2005, 11:38 PM

did anyone see that one eyed gos being flown by eagle heights at the falconry fair!!?? i know it was flying in a straight line after a lure!! suppose it had to be in a straight line coz if the lure was zig zagging across the arena it would be soooo confusing for the gos......... now u c it, now u dont, now u c it!!!!lol :rolleyes:

eagle heights said it cant hunt anymore but they didnt seem to have a problem using it for displays!! n it caught the lure fine

Wightwings

13-05-2005, 11:45 PM

Phsyco (ignore my spelling) is now 22 yrs old i believe..... bit surprised they used her at the fair because thats all she does at the centre........in truth that all she can do, if you do it any other way she looses sight and just goes and sits to wait for it.......nice bird but a bit ****ed really.... :rolleyes:

BlackHawke

13-05-2005, 11:54 PM

oh kev i now wot u were on about when we were chatting at the fair!!! and mmmmmmmmmm!!!! i agree!!!

Wightwings

13-05-2005, 11:59 PM

AAAAAAAARRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHH.............i hate it when you guys do that............have i missed summat ??????

Kevin Massey

14-05-2005, 08:38 AM

the mmmmmmmm was a comment to bump the topic to view.......there is an ongoing debate between mick and this guy....

read the total topic........ as some have mailed me this guy had the gore to give advice, imediatly after posting this

kev