How does one make . . . [Archive] - Falconry Forum (IFF)

Hawkmaster

19-01-2005, 08:52 PM

Let it ROLL baby? There must be loads of things people can add and if we take all the good and bad we can hopefully help everyone.

I have tried this since I was a kid and never done my own perfect one yet. I know some have so let get that info, I will add info too as we go, so let start from what age to get it?

Varmint

19-01-2005, 09:03 PM

As the imprinting stage starts so early in Accip's i prefer to start at around 6-10 days, but ideally why not start from hatch?
Puppet feeding until it's on the dish and then close assoc in everything you do?

As soon as off heat, 24/7 in your company where ever you go whatever you do and plenty of Wet Wipes :wink:

Hawkmaster

19-01-2005, 10:21 PM

My most successful one was a Spar and she was 10 days old when I got her too. To over come all the mutes a tank or transparent tube are essential.

Tim Laycock

09-02-2005, 01:10 PM

I have found the mutes to be the biggest obstacle in the process, Especialy as the missus is house proud beyond the call of duty.
Me and my last spar had to live in the conservatory for a couple of months.
I expect it will be the same story this time too. LOL.

Jack Merlin

12-03-2005, 12:13 PM

I have heard several cases where the imprinting seems to have been done correctly and everything has gone well, then half way through the season the hawks gets excessively nervous. This seems to be a downside of imprinting we don't hear much about.

I gather the screaming, mantling, face grabbing, dog attacking, etc. are things that don't happen when imprinting is done properly? Not intending to wind anyone up but I'd prefer a passage or haggard every time if I had the choice, even though it does mean more work.

Hawkula

12-03-2005, 03:00 PM

try getting mike mcdermots book the imprint accipiter its very informative

Hawkmaster

13-03-2005, 11:51 AM

We all waiting for the new one.

OutFlying

13-03-2005, 12:13 PM

I've read the imprint accipiter loads of times and it is a very good detailed book. Not all of it is applicable to goshawks and it seems more orientated towards coopers and sharpskins. I also read Desert hawking 2 and found a lot of useful information there also.
Last season I imprinted my first goshawk and based my ideas on these two books and information supplied by the breeder. If I imprinted again there would be some things I'd change and it wouldn't be as full of surprises as it was the first time.
Outflying.

Hawkmaster

13-03-2005, 12:34 PM

Care to share some? I have imprinted many birds in the RSA, but most were bad in one way or another.

I did use Mike's book to however to do a cracking Spar, so now on to the Gos, if I am luck enough to breed any?

OutFlying

13-03-2005, 12:41 PM

I wouldn't use the method described in the imprint accipiter to pick my gos up, but would use a small titbit on the glove from the beginning. I didn't have any problems with sicky footiness when I use this method. The gos was a lot happier and it wasn't as hard work as when picking both the lure and gos up together.

Jack Merlin

13-03-2005, 12:50 PM

Has anyone effectively explained the sudden nervousness some imprints get later in the season? This seldom seems to get a mention, yet it is obviously a problem.

I know of one case in the UK and two abroad, and I'm surprised to have even heard of these as I do not correspond or socialise much with other falconers living as I do on the edge of the known world! A fourth man, who is very experienced, was well acquainted with the problem, so it must be quite widespread but not mentioned, possibly because the affected falconer is unaware that he is not alone and blames himself.

Possibly if the same amount of time spent imprinting an eyas were spent on manning a P/R, or even a passager (if we could get them), the results in tameness wouldn't be that different with a much improved performance in the field.

The American apprentice falconers seem to manage OK with their wild trapped red tails, and if they didn't falconry would be a very rare sport in the USA!

Hawkmaster

13-03-2005, 01:13 PM

Has anyone effectively explained the sudden nervousness some imprints get later in the season? This seldom seems to get a mention, yet it is obviously a problem.

Yes I went through this this year and though it was manning but of course it was not, or was it maybe hormones?

Tim Laycock

14-03-2005, 07:59 AM

Possibly if the same amount of time spent imprinting an eyas were spent on manning a P/R, or even a passager (if we could get them), the results in tameness wouldn't be that different with a much improved performance in the field.

Exactly right
but I would still prefer a well manned imprint
People often neglect manning with imprints but it is paramount.
If you dont put the manning in then all you will have is a bird that shows no fear, doesnt like you very much and loves to ram its point home with its feet whenever it can.

I dont understand why an experienced eyass would be any less skilled than a passage bird realy and I would have thought an eyass was less likley to carry and be lost.

Falconry Equipment International

14-03-2005, 10:50 AM

t I'd prefer a passage or haggard every time if I had the choice, even though it does mean more work.

Hi Jack, so would I( I was lucky enough to get my 1st Gos over 30 yrs ago when legislation was quite different) a Haggard Female from Gemany, & boy was she mustard, imense amount of time on manning though :rolleyes:
J

Varmint

14-03-2005, 04:40 PM

I think the main advantage of any imprinted bird is the fact that the bird behaves in a totally natural way around you, and by careful observation you get a greater insight into it's body language. This knowledge can then be transferred back to the parent reared bird and of great assistance in the training.

Only my own opinions, but i think everyone should at some point in their falconry career, imprint a bird correctly and broaden their horizons, gone are the days of the face grabber!

Ignorance is bliss eh? :wink:

Falconry Equipment International

14-03-2005, 05:11 PM

That is very true, i have to admit to imprinting a Spar in tyhe eighties and flew her on the outskirts of London for seven very happy years
rgerads
J

WelsHawker

15-03-2005, 01:00 PM

OutFlying

15-03-2005, 04:13 PM

Hi everyone, there is a dvd out called the Imprint Goshawk part 1 by Dave Jones. Not sure when part 2 is comming out but part 1 covers the relationship with your hawk before,during and after Insemination.
Imprinting a chick
Dual imrinting a chick
Lure training
and the first flight..Its a pretty good dvd too.

I take it you've not try to imprint yourself before. This Dvd is just an over view with no mention of well known problems that will present themselves and need to be resolved. Loads of subject with no detail. Also why would you want to fly a pair of gosses in a cast ?
Outflying.

WelsHawker

15-03-2005, 04:27 PM

Yeah i imprinted and flew a female spar for 7 yrs... now flying a female harris..

OutFlying

15-03-2005, 04:38 PM

And you still think it covers the subject well ?

WelsHawker

15-03-2005, 05:08 PM

yeah i think its a good dvd on the subject... why are you going to make one with all the pitfalls ?

Tim Laycock

15-03-2005, 05:15 PM

:lol:

OutFlying

15-03-2005, 06:31 PM

I think people could be lead into a false sense of security regarding imprinting and become unstuck - the dvd makes it all seem rosy. I think he should have pointed this out. I watched the dvd, read the imprint accipiter, read desert hawking, asked questions from experience people and still encountered things I wasn't expecting. If I was doing a second one it would now be easier.

Varmint

15-03-2005, 06:43 PM

I think it's important to remember that we all have to strart somewhere?

Whilst i would agree that this film doesnt cover much on a technical level of the imprinting process, but it does act out the roles involved and for many that is far easier absorbed information than the Mcdermot Saga, which isnt without it's own pitfalls?

The main thing is that you understand the obviouse benefits of the imprint hawk and strive to achive these benefits thru a careful thought process!

OutFlying

15-03-2005, 06:59 PM

Varmint,
You said it better than I, yes it does cover the topics / roles but greater depth is required. The imprint accipiter isn't without faults but does have a very good problem section. It's a while since I watched the dvd but can't remember a topic covering known problems but I might be wrong...
Outflying.

Hawkmaster

16-03-2005, 03:25 PM

Also why would you want to fly a pair of gosses in a cast ?

Maybe if one goes out with another Gos man?

Mr Jone may address the fact of possible problems in a future dvd? But I agree in principal that an indication should be made that there are many problematic areas that will crop up.

OutFlying

16-03-2005, 03:29 PM

Hawkmaster,
Do you slip your gos in the field with another already loose ? What game bird or rabbit requires two gosses to catch it ?
Outflying.

Hawkmaster

16-03-2005, 03:43 PM

I was merely giving a reason it may be done, hence the ' :?: ' after my answer. So I do not but if there was more than one, say pheasant breaking cover a second could be slipped.

I have seen Dave and his mate, I think Tony, doing just this, not on the same individual prey at once.

I do however fly my Gos with two Harris Hawks.

OutFlying

16-03-2005, 05:40 PM

From the DVD it appears both gosses are being flown similar to a cast of Harris hawks following on in trees and both free to fly what ever they like. I don't recall seeing two falconers slipping at 2 different pheasants, I was basing my reply solely on the DVD not Dave Jones or his gosses in the field from personnel experience. He made the DVD and sold it with the footage he had and chose to use, I then made comments on this. Maybe the second one will fill in the gaps and fulfill his objective for the series, but at the moment from watching part 1 you couldn't imprint a gos using it solely as a reference or attempt to use A.I to breed gosses. Not enough detail.

Outflying,

OutFlying

23-03-2005, 07:22 PM

The perfect imprint accipiter :?:

What must one make sure to do and MAKE even more sure NOT to do :?:
:roll:

Get someone else to rear and enter it for you - for the first 6/7 weeks then you take it on and fly it as much as possible for the next 6 weeks or so. By then it will be quiet as a mouse and well mannered.

Outflying.

Hawkmaster

23-03-2005, 08:47 PM

I have also thought on these lines but feel I would need someone that could at least do as good a job as me and I do theirs and then we swap.

OutFlying

23-03-2005, 09:16 PM

HM, the first 7 weeks are easy apart from the muck and dust. It's the change of location and owner that I feel will make a big difference. Whenever I took the gos anywhere other than where he was raised - 100% quiet even at 7-12 weeks of age when getting a good slip was difficult.
The difficulty as you state - is to find someone willing to rasie a gos in their house for you.......

Outflying.

Hawkmaster

23-03-2005, 09:24 PM

The best imprint I have done, was a Spar and it did just that, it became perfect after a change of ownership.

OutFlying

29-03-2005, 01:36 PM

did this spar come to you imprinted or moved to someone else imprinted ?

Hawkmaster

29-03-2005, 03:41 PM

I imprinted her and she was great fun. She would bash crows gulls pigeon, but not bind. Anything small as Mike McDermott puts it LBJs would be brown bread, even worked her over a mates Spinoni.

She started to become agressive in the house and this was not fun. I only did her to try out MMDs method.

Once she was given to the new bloke she did it all and even took more crow on an Airforce base that all the other resident pest control birds.

OutFlying

29-03-2005, 04:22 PM

HM, did the new owner fly her at the same weight - was it just the change of surrounding, personnel that affected the change in behaviour and results ?

Outflying

Hawkmaster

29-03-2005, 06:09 PM

Yip same weight! She never made a noise with him of footed or got territorial anywhere.

But then she only flew at me a few times in the house and at my shop and occiasionally called at the end of the season.