Can I hunt with one

[Shalom]

Hello and seasons greetings to you all.

I am new or i think newby to falconry you say but i was wondering about this session. So please explain.

Game hawking
Hunting Duck, partridge, grouse and Phesants with Longwings.

Does this mean that only falcons can hunt them over here. I would like to hunt them but i am thinking of my first bird being a Harris Hawk or a spar. Is it then not legal to hunt them with one over here.
Thankyou for reading.

[JohnO31]

not to be/sound nast but i think you should read alot of books and definatly go onto a course because the threads which you have put onto the forum tels me that you are on the bottom run of a long ladder in experience/knowledge so try to do alot of learning FIRST before getting a BOP

atb mate ian

[CrazyFalconer]

Hello and welcome.! There are no absolutes about what bird can catch what quarry - ALMOST everything and anything is possible given the right bird and the right slip. When we write about Duck hawking it could be with a hawk but is more often with a falcon. For Quail and pheasants it is a coin toss; as they could hunted them with either type of raptor. Your grouse is most often a falcon but still not exclusively. Rabbits are often a hawk or eagle but there are some falcons that will also fly them as well. As you can see the combinations that could happen are endless, but the term "game hawking" to me very generic- meaning the act of hunting with a trained raptor no matter what type at wild quarry. The birds that would work best will depend on many factors but mostly on your laws, terrain, raptors and quarries available in your area.

I must agree with John031 you need to do your homework PRIOR to getting a raptor there are many topics that I would consider a MUST before considering such a step; medical management, laws, diet, husbandry,and the list goes on and on. I suggest you contact your local club/ group and try to get out in the field with as many active falconers (who have found the loopholes in the laws) as you can in your area..... They will prove to be invaluable as you start on this path. Although there is a vast amount of information available in books and on the Web you will find that often it can conflict and becomes very confusing when first starting out. There are also things that are very simple to learn hands on but can be difficult from the written word to visualize ,a local with experience would be a real big help.The information available will be different based on where the falconer is that wrote what you are studying, so please take into consideration as you start on your quest for knowledge.. Local raptor enthusiast will be able to get you on the best track, just approach them with an open mind and ask lots of questions.:supz:

This is a sport that requires continued learning, no matter how long you have been practicing and we all started at the beginning just like you are. The best of luck to you....

[Shalom]

Thankyou for your advice.I have read some books one is emma Fords book and the Nick Foxes book it does not say what is a good beginners bird, i have looked this forum and it doos some that the harris hawk is a starter but i think they are scruffee and i like the gos or spar, looks must come too because you not like the look of the bird you are not to be satisfied. looks and beginners bird must join.

sorry about English but it will get better i promise

[Shalom]

i can read better than i can right

[JayB]

dont go for a gos or spar they are hard to train and very hard to keep as a first bird have you thought of a redtail

[Shalom]

I am putting a deposit down for a female Goshawk but it wont be until next year so it gives me time to get equpment for her Should i learne to hood her and is she better tired to the bow perch or let free in the avairy.A goshawk will be a chalange i no ,but i am having lessons first so should be ok with nother falconer.
Thankyou for your thoughts.

[Sean D]

I am putting a deposit down for a female Goshawk but it wont be until next year so it gives me time to get equpment for her Should i learne to hood her and is she better tired to the bow perch or let free in the avairy.A goshawk will be a chalange i no ,but i am having lessons first so should be ok with nother falconer.
Thankyou for your thoughts.

Is this a mickey take, no offence meant but you cannot be serious

[BHawk]

Hello and seasons greetings to you all.

I am new or i think newby to falconry you say but i was wondering about this session. So please explain.

Game hawking
Hunting Duck, partridge, grouse and Phesants with Longwings.

Does this mean that only falcons can hunt them over here. I would like to hunt them but i am thinking of my first bird being a Harris Hawk or a spar. Is it then not legal to hunt them with one over here.
Thankyou for reading.

DO NOT GET A SPAR!!!! you have obviously not done much research on this. read a lot before you get a bird and GET A MENTOR!:roll:

[HawkMom]

Where I worked for the National Cancer Institute in the Mid-80's (part of the National Institutes of Health). I had several scientists work with me who were from Israel. One fellow named Ofer Eidelman, had a friend who was an avid shotgunner. This fellow's first name was Ofer too. Unfortunately, I forgot his last name. But the friend and he came to my house one day to watch the birds hunt. The friend told me that there is an ample game base in Israel. If you can take a course or get acquainted with an established falconer in Israel, it would be highly recommended. The gos you are talking about ordering is probably too much bird for a beginner like you. I would start with a Harris' hawk. They are easier to train, a larger margin of error. But please get some background training first. Go to this website: www.modernapprentice.com. It is geared for American falconers, but the principals are basically the same. I know that there are a couple of bird of prey centers in Israel (told to me 20 years ago). If you can get in touch with them, even handle and help out with some of the injured birds, that is also valuable experience.

Good Luck.

[HawkMom]

I just searched and found this: Basically it says that Israel does not allow falconry. Look about 1/2 way down on the document.

What a shame!!!



http://www.cites.org/eng/notif/2004/025.pdf

[Shalom]

I am so sorry for anger i caused to you all, please i am just asking questions and getting quit angry response. in isreal it is only band because of so much military traffic it is very security up setting.There are areas that it is done but i am over here and this is what i am asking over here not there.it seems a Goshawk and sparrowhawk are not of favour for first hawk, i am wondering why the man who has taken my deposit for one as i saide it was my first bird of prey to train.i did think it was a lot of money even though i said money was not to important.i will telephone him again and say what you have all saide. please i am only starting and wind up as in talking liar is not true i do not understand i am learner not a aggressor.
i will ring breeder tonight and see what man says and maybe look at a Red Tail, i just think harris hawk look so dulls
do not mean to offend.....sorry

[Kennelre]

Shalom...you say that your English is not so good, but your ability to understand is better. Of course you will be able to understand the concept of learning, because that is not dependant on an ability to communicate in a foreign tongue.
If Harris Hawks do not appeal because they are scruffy, then do not get one.
If you like the look of Goshawks, then it is not a bird to start a process of learning with no experience whatsoever...so you should not get one.
What you are now left with...is no bird at all!! Perhaps that is the way it should be.
Do not decide what bird you want based on what you might find physically appealing. Get a course, get a mentor...and discover if you have the circumstances and ability to cope with any bird at all.
This, without any anger at all, is my best advice.


...Rene.

[Q8e]

Shalom...you say that your English is not so good, but your ability to understand is better. Of course you will be able to understand the concept of learning, because that is not dependant on an ability to communicate in a foreign tongue.
If Harris Hawks do not appeal because they are scruffy, then do not get one.
If you like the look of Goshawks, then it is not a bird to start a process of learning with no experience whatsoever...so you should not get one.
What you are now left with...is no bird at all!! Perhaps that is the way it should be.
Do not decide what bird you want based on what you might find physically appealing. Get a course, get a mentor...and discover if you have the circumstances and ability to cope with any bird at all.
This, without any anger at all, is my best advice.


...Rene.

That is very messed up. Although I agree that a Goshawk is too much for a beginner it is not to say that is impossible. I have a Mongolian friend and he says that alot of people from his country start out with goshawks but i wouldnt compare the situation of someone in the west with theirs. As he said he was just asking and isnt trying to insult anyone but bashing him saying perhaps he shouldnt own a bird of prey at all is very demeaning.

Shalom shalom!

Most gos owners would take what shalom said as a compliment as goshawks are very beautiful birds but im sure they themselves would tell you not to pursue it as your first bird since they are very difficult to train. As you dont like the look of the harris try the redtailed hawk. It is what most americans start out with as their beginner bird.


Red-Tailed Hawk
http://www.richard-seaman.com/Wallpaper/Nature/Birds/Raptors/RedTailedHawk.jpg

[Shalom]

I rung the breeder last night and told about this forum i dont went to start trouble but he sad that not to lisen to you all.I did say he was rong and that was not correct.i am geting my friend to have a word to say no for my money.
I am angry that a breeder can tell you such things when it is rung. he was using my beginner ship.
many people started with falcons ago before hawks and they wher ok with them. So i might look into a falcon and wondered what vewers on hear thought.
Thankyou for your views and the red tail is a beautifil bird and i miht buy one but i do like falcon ttwo

[Kennelre]

[QUOTE=Q8e;734526]That is very messed up. Although I agree that a Goshawk is too much for a beginner it is not to say that is impossible. I have a Mongolian friend and he says that alot of people from his country start out with goshawks but i wouldnt compare the situation of someone in the west with theirs. As he said he was just asking and isnt trying to insult anyone but bashing him saying perhaps he shouldnt own a bird of prey at all is very demeaning.

Shalom shalom!

Most gos owners would take what shalom said as a compliment as goshawks are very beautiful birds but im sure they themselves would tell you not to pursue it as your first bird since they are very difficult to train. As you dont like the look of the harris try the redtailed hawk. It is what most americans start out with as their beginner bird.QUOTE Q8e.

.................................................. ............


That's a fascinating response to my post:lol:...
Lets just take a real leap of faith that this is a genuine thread:roll:...are you genuinely disagreeing with my suggestion that Shalom should gain some experience, and a mentor, before he purchases any bird at all? You will have noticed that, without any experience, he had already put a deposit on a Goshawk.... does this evoke any concern for you? Do you personally consider this an acceptable route into falconry? The evidence of this thread would suggest that, prior to concerns expressed by forum members, this particular transaction would indeed have been completed...perhaps you would then have accused me of 'bashing' if I had have expressed concern about the bird's welfare.
What does 'as you don't like the look of the Harris, try a redtailed hawk' actually mean then? Seriously...what the hell does that mean?
You self righteously accuse me of 'bashing' and 'demeaning'..but you have made no enquiry whatsoever about how this person would look after any bird at all. Would you, on any level, consider that to constitute an error of judgment on your part?


...Rene.

[MickeyDredd]

Lets just take a real leap of faith that this is a genuine thread:roll:...
.

Sorry thats too huge a leap to even consider.

[Q8e]

[QUOTE=Q8e;734526]That is very messed up. Although I agree that a Goshawk is too much for a beginner it is not to say that is impossible. I have a Mongolian friend and he says that alot of people from his country start out with goshawks but i wouldnt compare the situation of someone in the west with theirs. As he said he was just asking and isnt trying to insult anyone but bashing him saying perhaps he shouldnt own a bird of prey at all is very demeaning.

Shalom shalom!

Most gos owners would take what shalom said as a compliment as goshawks are very beautiful birds but im sure they themselves would tell you not to pursue it as your first bird since they are very difficult to train. As you dont like the look of the harris try the redtailed hawk. It is what most americans start out with as their beginner bird.QUOTE Q8e.

.................................................. ............


That's a fascinating response to my post:lol:...
Lets just take a real leap of faith that this is a genuine thread:roll:...are you genuinely disagreeing with my suggestion that Shalom should gain some experience, and a mentor, before he purchases any bird at all? You will have noticed that, without any experience, he had already put a deposit on a Goshawk.... does this evoke any concern for you? Do you personally consider this an acceptable route into falconry? The evidence of this thread would suggest that, prior to concerns expressed by forum members, this particular transaction would indeed have been completed...perhaps you would then have accused me of 'bashing' if I had have expressed concern about the bird's welfare.
What does 'as you don't like the look of the Harris, try a redtailed hawk' actually mean then? Seriously...what the hell does that mean?
You self righteously accuse me of 'bashing' and 'demeaning'..but you have made no enquiry whatsoever about how this person would look after any bird at all. Would you, on any level, consider that to constitute an error of judgment on your part?


...Rene.


I agree with you Rene :)

I myself like harris hawks but i was speaking in terms of his taste/choice. He should gain experience as you said, what i didnt agree with was you saying that perhaps he shouldnt own any bird because he is choosing to go after a goshawk as his first bird of prey. Lets be honest here there is 2 factors, he is getting pushed into buying a gos from his supposed breeder and by everyone on this thread to get a harris or red tail and i just thought you were being a little too cruel with that one statement. Everything you said made absolute sense.

I do consider it an error of judgement on my part but to tell you the truth i just presumed he'd be able to look after the bird.

I never thought that someone would make a fake post to start arguments as you and mickey are proposing but I can see it now. His friend who is involved in falconry doesnt tell him not to get a gos as his first bird but he goes off and tries to remit the order from the breeder afterwards doesnt make sense. Should of gave it more thought :-p I just saw your post and jumped the gun so im sorry.. :snipe: I was civil though i think.

[NGuruve]

well all i can say is i had the same approach a few years ago to getting a bird and wanted to get the best and best looking like a gos or falcon

but after getting a male red i can tell you DO NOT GET anything other than a harris or a red they are challenging enough and for a beginner to get the full potential out of there bird is a very rare thing so dont waste a brillinat bird and get the recommended

then see what you can do with that

then after a few years of watching a learning again then consider a harder bird

[HawkMom]

I agree with the previous posters. A red-tail is a fine bird. So is the Harris. The Harris is very friendly, easy to get along with but not as 'elegant' looking as a red-tail or Goshawk. A red-tail is a bird that will be aloof, but will teach you good falconry skills.

Here in U.S. In Alaska, the passage Goshawk is considered a bird available for apprentices, since red-tails are not as available.

Good luck Shalom. I hope my previous posting about falconry not being allowed in Israel is incorrect. From what I've heard, Israel is too nice of an area not to allow falconry.

I hope you find a mentor. There must be some sort of wildlife rehabliltator or falconer in Israel, since it is a major migratory point for birds.

[HawkMom]

Here is the contact page I found for the Israel Parks & Wildlife Authority

http://www.parks.org.il/ParksENG/faqs_search_tree.php3?NewNameMade=49&InitialEntry=1&from=116

[Shalom]

I have taken all your comments and have worked on them. I have decided to not get one until the end of next year and in the mean time i am going to read books and i have a falconer to take me out to see how it is before i commit.
I have also learned to use 'WORD' until my english gets better.





Can i just add that a few of you where kind but some where very harsh and quite arrogant . I was just asking and not doing anything wrong. I wonder how many newcomers have been scared off this way?




I would also like to thank the kind PM's of support and where told to forget these terrible people.
I am on a wise course now mainly due to my messages.
Thankyou for them.

[MickeyDredd]

but i am thinking of my first bird being a Harris Hawk or a spar.

I am putting a deposit down for a female Goshawk but it wont be until next year so it gives me time to get equpment for her

i am wondering why the man who has taken my deposit for one as i saide it was my first bird of prey to train.

Hi Shalom

Can you put the above three quotes into Word and come up with a suitable explanation for your doubters please, I think they feel that because you initially posted quote 1 and then posted quotes 2 and 3 on the same day that you may not be what you appear.......

Hope this helps
Evan

[Shalom]

I was asked to clarify my situation so I will do my best to do so . I can only say that I just got excited about what to buy, I had several deposits down but one was by word and the other by deposit, that being the goshawk so I hope that explains my poor way of explaining things. I type quite fast and because my knowledge of English is not to bad spoken when it comes down to typing I say it in my mind and transfer it to my typing.
The English has very much silent letters and it can get confusing to whether you put an E on the end of a word or a Y.
The word welcome has a silent E, you do not say wel comeee, and so it’s easy to leave it off.
The word OF and OFF as I have just been reminded by word can mean too different things but putting it into a word written down is hard.
So not just spelling errors but also typing too fast on the more easy words and leaving something in or out is confidence in English but shows inconsistency.
This has just taken an hour to do but I hope I will think beforehand in the future.

[Shalom]

I forgot to say thankyou for being so patient.