Barometer Readings

[ChrisGos]

Does anyone use Barometer Readings when flying their birds. If so what changes have you noticed in your hawking flying/hunting ability?

[OutFlying]

Since your post is in the shortwing section and hopefully you'll not get replies concerning longwings or harris hawks etc.

Never seen it have an effect on a on-weight goshawk hunted in yarrak.

All the best,

Jim.

[Jack]

The effects of this can more easily be seen when the bird, no matter the species, is right at the top edge of it's flying weight. On days when the barometer drops, no matter if cloudy or clear, the hawks do not feel quite as sharp at the same weight. Just before a front the barometer stacks up and the pressure gets heavy, and this makes the birds feel hungry. So if the hawk is at the top edge, and the pressure drops, it will suddenly seem to be not hungry, and when the barometer starts stacking it seems like the hawk is starved. If the hawk is in the very middle of the window of flying weight it is not quite as effected by it. It will be effected, but it might not be so noticable. Most all wild life will feed more heavily just before a front comes through. I do not fly by the barometer. But I do know it's effects and will be able to compensate if need be.

Jack

[Zingy]

Does anyone use Barometer Readings when flying their birds. If so what changes have you noticed in your hawking flying/hunting ability?


That's interesting, I was thinking about starting a similar thread. This past Sunday we had a big front and storm headed our way later that evening. I was out flying the goshawks on ducks and noticed more ducks around my normal spots. I mentioned it to another hunter and was told the ducks will be feeding more before a storm. Also, it seemed the goshawks were into the hunt more than I expected, since they were well fed from the kills the day before and it was warmer than normal. Very interesting....

phil

[FireAsh123]

well as a paraglider pilot i can vouch for high pressure readyings being hard work to fly in. the lift is minimal and its slow hard work to go through the air. and if you think there is less air molucals ie less oxygen then i think it could make a mark differnce on a birds flight and or behaviour.


atb ash

[NCorbgett]

absolutely agree, being a helicopter pilot, the pressure settings are relevent to flying ability, which might explain why a bird flies well one day and not the next even though the weight is the same.

[OutFlying]

absolutely agree, being a helicopter pilot, the pressure settings are relevent to flying ability, which might explain why a bird flies well one day and not the next even though the weight is the same.


That's probably why it's best to alter the hawks weight constantly. I think you'll encounter problems if your flying at the very top end of a gosses hunting weight but if your in the middle of the "zone" it won't make a difference.

If hawking feathered quarry wouldn't the effects be the same on the quarry as well as the hunter and in effect cancel each other out ?

Yours Jim.

[Jack]

Jim, this is correct. Any falcon or hawk that hunts birds will share the same elements and both are equally effected. On such days when the birds find it difficult to get lift they also have a weakened appetite. The birds they would hunt experience difficulty in flying as well, and since they also have a weakened appetite they realize that the falcon or hawk is not hunting them in earnest. These things can easily be seen if you fly on these days and observe both sides. People are always noticing when their birds are not into it the quarry does not seem to be as worried about them. All wildlife, and probably us humans, are effected by these things. Animals and fish that feed heavily ahead of a storm are not looking to lay in food before hard times. It is just natures way of making them do it. The barometric pressure starts to slowly stack, which starts the critters to feeding. Just before the front moves through the pressure is at a peak, and this usually spurs a feeding frenzy of sorts. They just feel super hungry. Then as the front passes through the bottom falls out. They just shelter in from the storm as they are not hungry or in a mood to fly.
The heavy pressure works against paragliders and such that depend on thermal lift, but birds can easily mount on it because it is thicker and the birds can more easily use it. When the pressure drops nothing flys because it is a job of work to keep air under the wings. It is thin and difficult to use. That mixed with lose of appetite work to make a poor hawking day.

Jack

[OutFlying]

Jim, this is correct. Any falcon or hawk that hunts birds will share the same elements and both are equally effected. On such days when the birds find it difficult to get lift they also have a weakened appetite. The birds they would hunt experience difficulty in flying as well, and since they also have a weakened appetite they realize that the falcon or hawk is not hunting them in earnest. These things can easily be seen if you fly on these days and observe both sides. People are always noticing when their birds are not into it the quarry does not seem to be as worried about them. All wildlife, and probably us humans, are effected by these things. Animals and fish that feed heavily ahead of a storm are not looking to lay in food before hard times. It is just natures way of making them do it. The barometric pressure starts to slowly stack, which starts the critters to feeding. Just before the front moves through the pressure is at a peak, and this usually spurs a feeding frenzy of sorts. They just feel super hungry. Then as the front passes through the bottom falls out. They just shelter in from the storm as they are not hungry or in a mood to fly.
The heavy pressure works against paragliders and such that depend on thermal lift, but birds can easily mount on it because it is thicker and the birds can more easily use it. When the pressure drops nothing flys because it is a job of work to keep air under the wings. It is thin and difficult to use. That mixed with lose of appetite work to make a poor hawking day.

Jack

Nice post Jack,
Would a goshawk used for hunting that is kept at an artificial weight based on responce to it's hunting results lose it's edge if flown at the sharper end of it's hunting weight envelope during pressure changes ?

I haven't noticed the atmospheric pressure have any affect this season on the gosses performance, he usually flown 30 to 40 grams under his maximum hunting weight.

Would the lack of lift be as evident in a hawk flying only 2 - 3 feet off the ground ?

Also what is the effect of wind speed on these days, does it not give more lift if stronger winds ?

Yours Jim.

[FireAsh123]

no jim the lift will be less even with wind. the bird will have to flap faster to gain a small amount of lift. id say it would be hard to see much difference if flying birds as they also are being affected. but i did notice a few months ago whilst flying rabbit in the fog wich is an indicater of high pressure that my gos took 100 yards to stop a rabbit from a bolt from near under my feet. normally in good conditions it wouldnt have been any sport whats so ever. i do know that the exta moisture in the air also makes it harder for birds or anything that flys. to get lift.
i flew my paraglider on a hill using slope lift in say 10mile hr winds on a nice crisp day just after a front so the prussure is low and unstable witch makes for good flying. i was well over 600 feet above the hill. but on another day same wind speed but on a warm high pressure day i could just about keep off the ground. flying was hard work and had to us the best bits of lift on the hill to stay up.
hope that may explaine it a bit better.
also temparatur also makes a difference ie hotter air also makes it harder to gain lift

[FireAsh123]

When the pressure drops nothing flys because it is a job of work to keep air under the wings. It is thin and difficult to use. That mixed with lose of appetite work to make a poor hawking day.

Jack

id say you are right in saying its diffacult to use but lift is better, thermal or slope the birds fly in exactly the smae way as a paraglider but they can perpell them selfs abit. id say in my vie birds seem to like the low prusser days. as in winter thermal activity is very weak, to weak to fly a paraglider but the seaguls and buzzards love it.

atb ash

[Jack]

Nice post Jack,
Would a goshawk used for hunting that is kept at an artificial weight based on responce to it's hunting results lose it's edge if flown at the sharper end of it's hunting weight envelope during pressure changes ?
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>Jim, this would depend on a lot of things. I find that my own birds might not be as hungry or as aggressive toward game during these times, but when at the time we normally hunt, or they normally feed, they seem to be quite motivated. If too high to start with they just seem to lose it all together.

-----

I haven't noticed the atmospheric pressure have any affect this season on the gosses performance, he usually flown 30 to 40 grams under his maximum hunting weight.
----

> I think this would depend on just how high or low the pressure is. Normally, the pressure will stay within a certain range of up and down, which might not have a great effect on the hawks or falcons unless at the very top end. We have times that the atmosphere is scrambled with strong storm activity and these fronts are driven by drastic ups and downs of the barometric pressure.
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Would the lack of lift be as evident in a hawk flying only 2 - 3 feet off the ground ?
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> I think that just powering along in level flight they are less effected. In fact, it would be hard to see any difference I would think. I really think flying for falcons might be more effected then in hawks, but the appetite thing would be about equal.
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Also what is the effect of wind speed on these days, does it not give more lift if stronger winds ?

Yours Jim.
__________________
> This is what I have noticed in my bird and my buds. On these days they seem to make longer outruns, even with a bit of wind. On the turn back down the wind they lose altitude quickly, and on the outrun they come back pumping hard for a bit of gain. If they can get some head wind to climb on it makes it easier, but then when they turn on the outrun they drop down again. Some of this is purely wind shear. They are not moving at any airspeed when on the outrun and so drop back down. The stronger the wind, the stronger this shear is.
I remember back as a young man I would go to a public swimming pool with my friends, and I always seemed to have trouble treading water. The water was heated, which made it sort of thinner, and it was purely soft water. That area used well water and it was filtered through a half mile of peat. Then when I moved to another area that had really hard water, full of minerals and such, and I could float. That is how the air is. Heavy and easy to swim in on high pressure days. But on the low days it would be hard to stay up because the air was so thin. On days when we have large thermal action the birds can take a ride up like an elevator. I have seen birds do that, but for a falcon that is waiting on you might not have a thermal action taking place in your vicinity.
Last week I went hawking with a couple of friends, and I put my hybrid tiercel up first. He did not act like he normally does. I noticed that he just didn't seem to be cranking like normal. He was on one foot and not making a sound. I spoke my concerns, but I decided to give him a try anyway. There was a big blow coming, and a front on the horizon. I knew the pressure was dropping like a lead ball. He went straight to the dam and sat down watching the ducks from there. I tried everything to get him to fly but he didn't. After half an hour I just picked him up and put him in the truck. Then the next bird came up. I was simply mortified because he had done this in front of others. But then the peregrine just went to the dam and sat. Same thing happened with her. Then the next peregrine, and she did exactly the same. These 2 birds were to be considered as comsemate game hawks. I did not feel so bad about it then. I was not alone in my aggrivation. We have had several of these front days in a row now, and it seems to play havoc with our hawking. I am trying to fly a hybrid tiercel on ducks, and a male Harris on rabbits. I also am trying to work closely with my new apprentice with his male RT. It is difficult to manage their weights and our hunting time under these conditions.

Jack

[Jack]

Fireash, I am in the process of getting myself a paragliding outfit. It is flat here and I would have to drive to the hill country to find a location where I could get airborne, so I am also looking for a small engine to propel me for takeoff from an open field. There are 3 people close to me that have the little gocart looking things with a parasail over it, but I don't want that. I am going to be thermal soaring, and an engine would be great for moving from one to the next or across country. Have you ever considered a small engine for this purpose?

Jack

[FireAsh123]

Fireash, I am in the process of getting myself a paragliding outfit. It is flat here and I would have to drive to the hill country to find a location where I could get airborne, so I am also looking for a small engine to propel me for takeoff from an open field. There are 3 people close to me that have the little gocart looking things with a parasail over it, but I don't want that. I am going to be thermal soaring, and an engine would be great for moving from one to the next or across country. Have you ever considered a small engine for this purpose?

Jack

hi jack no not really as i really like the idea of free flight like the birds but there is an option to be towed up vie a car or a winch which if you want to free fly ie thermal that might be a better way for you as you will probable need the engine running of the paramoto constantly because of the extra weight. i think you can be towed up to atleast 2000 feet vie winch witch should be enough to find a thermal.

al the best ash

[Hawkmaster]

THREAD MOVED TO GAMEHAWKING

[OutFlying]

THREAD MOVED TO GAMEHAWKING

Why, it was a thread about goshawks and posted in shortwings.

Keep your pointy wing threads to yourself :rolleyes: