Hawking with a Saker falcon

[GoshawkRST]

Hello everyone, i have some doubts hot to make my saker hunt from the fist. Because of the terrain, i want to hunt only from the fist, nothinng to wait on or something like that.
I am not calling the bird to stopp to the lure no more, and I only fly it from the fist to bagged pigeons.
Any sugestions there?
Thankyou allot and best regards!
Sergiu

[Shaun Byrne]

Does the bird kill, or at least attack the bagged pigeons?

[GoshawkRST]

Hello there!

The bird is a BEAST!!! Is flying from the fist, chasing very well the pigeons, and catching them and killing them. It´s very fast bird.

I need advices how to make it land on trees if he misses, and not to fly above in circles, waiting on style. If he misses, i want it to land in trees or on the ground. I accept any advises and ideas. I want it to fly like a gosh (of corse not so fast and agile, but...)...
Thankyou and best regards.

[The Late Lord Lucan]

Personally, I wouldn't change this.
I would quickly follow up the bird and flush the prey again.
If not, I would just call back to the lure and start again.

Regards,
Lucky.

[MattSpar]

I'm curious as to why anyone should wish to fly a saker at bagged quarry, then require it to land on the ground if it should miss. To expect a saker to act in this manner leads me to believe you have very little experience with falconry, and even less understanding of the ethics involved. To fly any bird at bagged quarry is an admission of an inability to train a bird properly, and is, furthermore UTTERLY INEXCUSABLE. I'm afraid it's people like you who bring the sport into disrepute. I suggest you take up some other sport instead, and leave falconry to those who understand. Try croquet.

[Wightwings]

agreed Andy. If you really are serious about submiting your valued views to the forum Matt please respect others methods. GRST is from a country that does thing different.

why not stick a bit of info up about yourself your profile seems very sparce, always worries me a little that about agendas.

[MattSpar]

Are you, therefore, suggesting the flying of bagged quarry should NOT be condemned? It is the quickest way to topple the sport.

[Wightwings]

read the post............we dont do here but almost every other country in the world does.

we have had this debate on here in depth, so before you look to start an argument have a read through the threads.

[The Late Lord Lucan]

To fly any bird at bagged quarry is an admission of an inability to train a bird properly, and is, furthermore UTTERLY INEXCUSABLE. I'm afraid it's people like you who bring the sport into disrepute. I suggest you take up some other sport instead, and leave falconry to those who understand.
I'm afraid I totally disagree with you there Mattspar my old chum......
What you have to try to understand is that in some countries, bagged game is a tried & tested & acceptable method, whether you disagree with it or not. The fact that most people find it 'utterly inexcusable' is more down to what they have been taught, rather than perhaps what is fact or as opposed to whether or not it is any use or whether it is cruel or not. Just remember that this is an international forum, not just a UK forum......
However, I respect your opinion and your right to air that opinion.
As our old friend Voltaire said....

"I may despise what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

Regards,
Lucky.

[LeighJauncey]

I think, as falconers, we do need agendas and in this country the biggest one should be protecting and promoting our sport. Whilst I might not use the same language as Mattspar, the use of bagged quarry should be unnecessary and will only serve to give the anti-hunting lobby more ammunition against us. I'm only an egg too but whatever is posted here is available to everyone. There may well be other discussions pertaining to this issue but, as new members, it's not easy to find everything of interest and if you see something that really concerns you it's only natural to comment.

[Wightwings]

well said all.........now can we let GRST have his thread back i think it is a decent discussion subject :mrgreen:

[MattSpar]

Having been asked to introduce myself, I am male, more advanced in years than I care for, have been practicing falconry for 40 of those years, and am, on occasion, outspoken, for which I feel I need make no apology. I see no reason to reveal my birthsign, or "chinese zodiac" (ridiculous).
Whilst I certainly have no wish to set out to offend, should anyone take offence at my comments, I can only say they must be easily offended and that they should, perhaps, seek the real reason for this.
I, and the sport of falconry are offended by those who practice unsound ethics (this having nothing to do with legality), then publicise the fact.
Friendly chit-chat is fine, but the object of a forum should surely be to uphold standards of practice in a world where ALL field sports are coming under fire.
Remember the definition of "Falconry", "The pursuit of wild quarry, in its natual environment......."
Whist my comments may be offensive to some, they have the merit of being sound.

[Wightwings]

well said sir and welcome to the Forum......free speach here is paramount and your opinions are valued.......I do however hope the "freindly chit -chat" that has helped to build this forum to what it is, freindly and open doesnt bother you too much. :roll:
we like to mix the seriuos with the not so here were possible.

now can w leave this thread to the real question, if you want to start a new one on "baggies" but like i say have look there are a few :D

all the best

Chris,

not got 40 yrs exp, not critical of others methods and not bothered that peeps know my ridiculous birth sign :D

[Gaz]

OOI WATCH YOUR TRAP Christopher :!: Im a saggyhairyass as well :mrgreen:
this country the biggest one should be protecting and promoting our sport
Right..but this is a international forum...do some people actually not read posts first???
"must remember to engage the brain before putting mouth in gear"......LOVE U, :mrgreen:

[Wightwings]

OOI WATCH YOUR TRAP Christopher Im a saggyhairyass as well

pmsl............... :lol: :finga: :wink:

[Gaz]

saggyhairyass
Hlaf man,half horse....licensed to s##t in the street

[LeighJauncey]

Right..but this is a international forum...do some people actually not read posts first???
"must remember to engage the brain before putting mouth in gear"......LOVE U,

I think my error was perhaps assuming than an engaged brain was normal before reading or posting. I was quite aware of the fact that the initial post was from another country but the site has a .co.uk address and will be assumed by people who may be against our sport that, whatever any "small print" may say, any postings are fair game for adverse publicity and we should be careful, about how we are perceived as a community. Of course it's an international site but couldn't it use an English spell check for postings - some of us ancient ones care about grammar and spelling, sad I know.

..........anyway, sakers off the fist, marvellous!

[Shaun Byrne]

Sakers off the fist, yes!

sakers back to the fist, No!

[Jack Merlin]

Hello everyone, i have some doubts hot to make my saker hunt from the fist. Because of the terrain, i want to hunt only from the fist, nothinng to wait on or something like that.
I am not calling the bird to stopp to the lure no more, and I only fly it from the fist to bagged pigeons.

Hi Sergiu,

Strangely enough, I came across a chapter in Turbervile's "Book of Falconrie or Hawking" (first published in 1611) about training a falcon to take perch in a tree rather than wait on and I wondered why on earth anyone would want to do that!

I assumed it was because a waiting on falcon was in danger of going on the soar in a hot country. If you like to email me, I will look it out the reference and send you a copy.

I am also sorry you have been bothered with complaints about your ethics. I joined the British Falconers Club in 1954 (and resigned in 1962) so I've been around as long as any of them and have no problems with what you are trying to achieve in your own country under your own laws.

Jack

[MattSpar]

Having stirred up something of a hornets nest regarding the use of bagged quarry, my reply to GoshawkRST was, perhaps couched in language which may have been perceived as overly direct. If so, I take this opportunity to offer an olive branch.
My beliefs, however, remain steadfast. I urge all practitioners, in whatever country, regardless of whether it is legal or not, to oppose this practise in view of the anti field sports era in which we find ourselves today.
Falconry is the best of all field sports, and could well go the same way as foxhunting is going in England, and has already gone north of the border. Also, I would, with respect, urge those who purport to have no problems with this issue to think again.

[Jack Merlin]

and could well go the same way as foxhunting ........ has already gone north of the border.

Life north of the border continues as normal. However, we do add someone with a gun so we can call it vermin control and stay within the law. So everyone is happy. The celt is a very practical creature!

Since you have raised this issue, can you please give me the legal reference where it is stated that bagged quarry is illegal in the UK? I can probably give you case law proving that it isn't.

Who was it who said that it was better to keep your mouth shut and appear a fool than to open it and remove all doubt?

Look, Matspar, I do not wish to be unkind, but you have recently joined this group and have so far posted a total of six messages (which I haven't read). It seems to me that to pontificate at this stage is an abuse of hospitality. You might find it advisable to do as the owl:

There was an owl who lived in an oak,
The more he saw, the less he spoke.
The less he spoke, the more he saw.
Now wasn't that a wise old bird?

When you have convinced everyone here of your undoubted wisdom, we will all listen with rapt attention. Meantime, it's been a long day, I'm a bit ****ed, and I don't feel like being kind.

Jack

[Hawkmaster]

You got to LOVE ole Derry! :wink: :lol:

[MattSpar]

....but you have recently joined this group..... It seems to me that to pontificate at this stage is an abuse of hospitality

How long, I wonder, should one wait to speak, directly if necessary, about an issue which could end the sport which I love? Longer than those who may have posted more messages? Or just until it's too late?

I'm quite sure some people would love me to keep quiet on this subject.

I don't intend to.

[Kevin Massey]

out of interest i have had a look about on the web and have come up with virtually nowt.....

there is a bit on the bfc site about it in there own rules.

and there is probably some way the rspca could take action...but that would be for causing stress..

i agree the practice in the UK is frowned upon....but this is and international falconry forum, so all aspects that are practiced around the world should be given consideration when discussed in open topics...

as for antis picking up on it....then good !!! doesn't this trend just show how British falconers ( and other hunting sports)...respect the prey species and how they are treated compared to other countries

Kev

[Jack Merlin]

I'm quite sure some people would love me to keep quiet on this subject. I don't intend to.

See http://www.alzeimers.firstsymptoms.boringoldgits.htm
and
http://www.Imabullshitter.falconry.htm

[Hawkmaster]

Damn! I even tried to look at those links!

Derry do you post Bobwhites?

[BrianM]

i was wondering about that too hawkmaster,,, please enlighten us derry lol

[ChicM]

Wish I could think of something witty to add but Jack nailed it...Too many soap boxes standing next to high horses for members to climb up on already on this forum. Common sense is needed to live and hunt as the laws and mores of each country dictate. In my experience, give the antis an inch by agreeing any of their points and they'll steal a mile. Face 'em down I say. :D

[ChicM]

And...what's the difference between a baggie and livebait used in fishing? Or a worm or a maggot on a hook...or a mealworm fed to a pekin robin to get it hand-tame...or a rabbit flushed from its hole by a trained ferret for that matter?

You can draw ethical lines in the sand all day on these subjects and still be discussing the far end of a fart by nightfall...

[Kevin Massey]

Hello everyone, i have some doubts hot to make my saker hunt from the fist. Because of the terrain, i want to hunt only from the fist, nothinng to wait on or something like that.
I am not calling the bird to stopp to the lure no more, and I only fly it from the fist to bagged pigeons.
Any sugestions there?
Thankyou allot and best regards!
Sergiu


just to get back on topic !!!....we'll get slated for that next :lol:

kev

[ChicM]

Damn...I was just warming up then :D

[Shaun Byrne]

Start a new thread Chick??

[ChicM]

Ach I think it's been done to death Shaun don't you? And by smarter folk than me on here.

I just get a little amusement out of people's "ethics" - purely for my own pleasure. I know of a few very well respected falconers who go on about, for example, dress code to keep the "standards" of falconry high and yet are not above the notion of bagged game!

People's morality/hypocrisy interests me is all.

[Jack Merlin]

There are problems to transporting live birds within the UK. One guy even drove over from Ireland to get some. I used to do hatching eggs by mail order but just now my stock is at rock bottom and I have nothing to sell.

The problem is the foundation stock was imported from Florida, USA, and I'm in the far north of Scotland. Consequently, I have had a lot of losses. Gradually, I am developing a hardy stock immune to our climate and endemic diseases.

I built up a good stock of several hundred birds last season, then diease hit (probably from wild birds) and I was down to 20 pairs before I discovered the cure. I don't believe in lots of medication -- nothing like natural selection. Those 20 pairs should be enough to get me back up to par as they lay like mad once they get going.

I'm getting there!

In my opinion, bob white are the most important thing for training pointing dogs (and other gundogs) in the last 400 years. I'm serious.

Derry

[Jack Merlin]

One last word about bagged quarry.

There is a very good reason for not using it. If used regularly, they ruin the bird. They get lazy and expect easy kills every time. I've seen partridges thrown out of a crate for a goshawk. After number three, he was merely following and catching at the put in. (This, btw, done by an "approved instructor" to one of the hawking clubs!).

But I really don't see a lot of difference between entering a hawk to a wild bird that is hampered because it has just had a bath, or has a full crop, or is sick, or young, or is not given fair law -- to one slipped under contrived conditions.

To quote from one of Mavrogordato's books, ".....the solution is obvious". One guess as to what he was referring.

As a matter of interest, I resigned from the BFC in 1972 (not '62) because the committe at that time complained, about my importing lanners from Nigeria, on "ethical" grounds, although it was perfectly legal to do so and absolutely nothing to do with the club.

I replied in a personal letter listing the members of the committee with an example where each one had either broken the law or were complicit in a breach of the law. So I am a bit sensitive to the "holier that thou" characters who go around telling others what they should do in their own back yard. It is just bad manners.

My guess is that Matspar knows nothing about falconry except what he has picked up from books and at secondhand. Harris hawks may be great fun, but they are a league away from the real thing. Sorry guys<g>, I don't mean to be rude about HH'ers, but a passage shortwing, for example, is a whole different ball game. Real falconers show a bit more humility than our arrogant friend.

Jack

[Shaun Byrne]

Harris hawks may be great fun, but they are a league away from the real thing. Sorry guys<g>, I don't mean to be rude about HH'ers, but a passage shortwing, for example, is a whole different ball game. Real falconers show a bit more humility than our arrogant friend.

Jack

And it was going so well until that point. With that statement you now sound like one of the elitist old BFC members you have just slated yourself.

There's Harris's and there's Harris's, no bad birds just poorly trained ones!!

[Martin]

One last word about bagged quarry.

There is a very good reason for not using it. If used regularly, they ruin the bird. They get lazy and expect easy kills every time. I've seen partridges thrown out of a crate for a goshawk. After number three, he was merely following and catching at the put in. (This, btw, done by an "approved instructor" to one of the hawking clubs!).

But I really don't see a lot of difference between entering a hawk to a wild bird that is hampered because it has just had a bath, or has a full crop, or is sick, or young, or is not given fair law -- to one slipped under contrived conditions.

To quote from one of Mavrogordato's books, ".....the solution is obvious". One guess as to what he was referring.

As a matter of interest, I resigned from the BFC in 1972 (not '62) because the committe at that time complained, about my importing lanners from Nigeria, on "ethical" grounds, although it was perfectly legal to do so and absolutely nothing to do with the club.

I replied in a personal letter listing the members of the committee with an example where each one had either broken the law or were complicit in a breach of the law. So I am a bit sensitive to the "holier that thou" characters who go around telling others what they should do in their own back yard. It is just bad manners.

My guess is that Matspar knows nothing about falconry except what he has picked up from books and at secondhand. Harris hawks may be great fun, but they are a league away from the real thing. Sorry guys<g>, I don't mean to be rude about HH'ers, but a passage shortwing, for example, is a whole different ball game. Real falconers show a bit more humility than our arrogant friend.

Jack

Jack

Bit like yourself then, quotes from 400 years ago do not impress most falconers of today, i think we have moved on a bit since then, also in your 40 odd years of hawking, how many Gosses have you flown ?

[Mojo]

Having stirred up something of a hornets nest regarding the use of bagged quarry, my reply to GoshawkRST was, perhaps couched in language which may have been perceived as overly direct. If so, I take this opportunity to offer an olive branch.
My beliefs, however, remain steadfast. I urge all practitioners, in whatever country, regardless of whether it is legal or not, to oppose this practise in view of the anti field sports era in which we find ourselves today.
Falconry is the best of all field sports, and could well go the same way as foxhunting is going in England, and has already gone north of the border. Also, I would, with respect, urge those who purport to have no problems with this issue to think again.

You Sir, are a fine example of English gentleman ha ha ha ha ha!!

However, i agree with your statement about bagged game...but people, you are waaaay off-topic:):)

[Varmint]

:arrow:

[Jack Merlin]

<how many Gosses have you flown ?>

Five. How many have you flown?

Jack

[Varmint]

:arrow:

[Shaun Byrne]

Surprised you dont have any comments on the Harris statement above Varmint???

[Varmint]

:arrow:

[Martin]

<how many Gosses have you flown ?>

Five. How many have you flown?

Jack

Funny that Jack, i thought the male you have now was your first, apart from a female years ago, your words not mine, from another list, :lol:

[GoneHawking]

Why are people obsessed with numbers of hawks trained??? surely it would be better to have trained one bird to fly and hunt greatly than to have trained/owned 20 birds that all turned out badly???
Just my thoughts not having a go at anyone by the way.

[Shaun Byrne]

Why are people obsessed with numbers of hawks trained??? surely it would be better to have trained one bird to fly and hunt greatly than to have trained/owned 20 birds that all turned out badly???
Just my thoughts not having a go at anyone by the way.

Unless they all flew perfect!! :D

[GoneHawking]

H4wka, Point taken, but you get the idea.

[Shaun Byrne]

And thats gonna progress this thread mate?

If thats Jacks opinion, it shows a chink in his armour as did Matts statement of Bagged Game!

I think it just shows how much we all need to and will continue to learn from this amazing sport eh? :wink:

Falconers= words like Agree, Colour and sheit all spring to mind :lol:

:D :D Point Taken, some people just dont know what they are missing :D

[ChicM]

Jings...has Varmint been at the herbs again maaaannn...or have aliens abducted him?

Any other post like that about HHs and he'd have been off on one!

I'm scared. What is happening. Please - bring the old V back. We can pay what it takes... :D

[Shaun Byrne]

Or maybe he's been down the vets and had em nipped?? lmao!!

[Jack Merlin]

<Funny that Jack, i thought the male you have now was your first, apart from a female years ago, your words not mine, from another list, >

Just shows what a modest fellow I am, doesn't it?

How are you getting on with the male buzzard?

Jack

[Martin]

<Funny that Jack, i thought the male you have now was your first, apart from a female years ago, your words not mine, from another list, >

Just shows what a modest fellow I am, doesn't it?

How are you getting on with the male buzzard?

Jack

modest if not quite the word i would use, the buzzards great, see you've been checking me up, you must have another book coming out, :lol:

[Varmint]

:arrow:

[Jack Merlin]

Dear List,

Please be careful how you post quotes. The best thing to do is cut-and-paste. I have never condemned those who fly HHs, nor do I criticize Harris Hawks. I just don't think they are quite the same thing as, for example, a passage sparrowhawk or a haggard peregrine -- and before anyone starts throwing the bricks, yes, I have flown several of the first and one of the latter. I have no aspirations to own a HH -- but wish all those who do the best of luck.
My criticisms were aimed at the original poster who made an unprovoked attack on another list member for doing what is perfectly legal in his own country.
I don't intend to discuss this subject any further.


Jack

[ChicM]

Fair point Jack - I reckon you win that on context. My best guess is that you tagged on the sentence "Real falconers..." directly to the end of your opinion on HHs. People can be forgiven for misinterpreting that in a way where you may not consider us HH flyers "real falconers".

Happens all the time in emails - and more often when there are real falconers reading them!

:D

[The Late Lord Lucan]

Mattspar wrote....I'm quite sure some people would love me to keep quiet on this subject.
Er, well, as you come to mention it........I respect your views & opinions Mattspar, whether or not I agree with them is immaterial, I don't respect the way you seem to want to dictate who can or can't discuss it, legally, on a public international forum.....(remember my friend 'Voltain'?)
Just incase some of you hadn't already worked it out from some of my previous posts, I am 100% with Jack on this one. I don't think it is anyones place to dictate what should or shouldn't be discussed quite legally on an open forum, and even more what our foreign neighbours should or shouldn't be doing, quite legally in their own countries.

It won't be the discussion or even the use of baggies that gets falconry banned in the U.K., it will be the bullshit that comes from the do-gooders, politicians and every other dipstick in this country that thinks he has the best method of 'running' the damn place.
If you don't like the way that some countries do things (legally), then move to that country, get the right to vote & do something about it.
I like to eat beef & pork, I do it legally, but I don't have any Hindus or Muslims ramming their beliefs or opinions down my face, all of the ones that I know would, by their own admission, be ashamed to be so rude as to tell me what I can & can't do in my own back garden.

The thing that I find really ironic is, falconry is practiced all over the world, the use of bagged game is legal in a great many countries, and yet here in the UK, we find our field sports under more threat than most of these countries put together.....

LLL.

[ChicM]

Nice one Lucky! I think we all need to stand up and be counted too and it p*sses me off the way we all incorporate compromise in our sport as "standards" just because some people think you have to pander to minority beliefs. I'm keeping quiet for no-one!

[MattSpar]

Judging by the reaction to my comments regarding the use of bagged quarry, I'm forced to the sorry conclusion that the practice must be more widespread here, in the UK, that I had previously envisaged. That's a shame. It's also a shame that certain persons seem to have missed the point, perhaps deliberately, perhaps not. I have made no great issue regarding legality. I'm perfectly well aware its use is legal in some other countries. I should add I have no desire, as The late Lord Lucan suggests, to dictate who should, or should not discuss the subject on this forum. Indeed, I believe the more exposure it receives (and it certainly will if I have my way), the sooner this inexcusable practice may, hopefully end.

I have been called arrogant, well, maybe. I prefer to call it "having the courage of one's convictions".

My own falconry experience, flying a range of species, at an even greater range of quarry, with, on occasion, a modicum of success, has taught me there is no need for recourse to this practice whatsoever. To the chagrin of some I'm sure, I will continue to air my views on this topic, when appropriate. I shall, however, endeavour to refrain from the use of misquoted poetry.

[ChicM]

To be honest MattSpar - you have as much a voice as any of us and if you are genuinely serious of having the courage of your conviction, bring it on my friend. This is an open forum after all and everyone is entitled to their opinion: but that doesn't mean they will be automatically supported or agreed with.

So if you are convinced that there is no need whatsoever for the use of bagged game at any time, why not give us the benefit of your valid experience in open debate?

There is a seperate thread on this topic started by Maxi...please feel free to join in.

[HawkNorth]

i would prefer to fly saker falcons

[The Late Lord Lucan]

Mattspar wrote.....Judging by the reaction to my comments regarding the use of bagged quarry, I'm forced to the sorry conclusion that the practice must be more widespread here, in the UK, that I had previously envisaged.
Not sure quite how you settled on your conclusion there, but, thats your opinion.
A survey showed that out of all road traffic accidents, 20% were caused by people under the influence of alcohol. Therefore it would be safe to assume that 80% of them were caused by sober drivers.
So would it be safe to conclude that if everyone drove their car while under the influence of alcohol, then there would be a lot less accidents?
Just because people talk and have opinions about a given subject, doesn't mean that they practice it.
I have made no great issue regarding legality.
I'm not really sure that there is an issue of legality. I think you would find that there is nothing in law that says you can't do it. The law is based on a line about cruelty and suffering.
My own falconry experience, flying a range of species, at an even greater range of quarry, with, on occasion, a modicum of success, has taught me there is no need for recourse to this practice whatsoever.
I would much rather here about this, than being told that your moral opinions & practices are more politically or publicly correct than those that you assume are mine.

ChicM wrote....
To be honest MattSpar - you have as much a voice as any of us and if you are genuinely serious of having the courage of your conviction, bring it on my friend. This is an open forum after all and everyone is entitled to their opinion: but that doesn't mean they will be automatically supported or agreed with.
So if you are convinced that there is no need whatsoever for the use of bagged game at any time, why not give us the benefit of your valid experience in open debate?
There is a seperate thread on this topic started by Maxi...please feel free to join in.

I guess as there is no answer so far, your invitation has been declined!

Regards,
LLL.

[Wightwings]

a VERY elequent post sir............well put

[Gozzhawk]

MY humble opinion is that it is not necessary but useful and it will depend upon how highly you regard both the ART of falconry and the law, we should all follow the letter of the law when it comes to our sport and as i read it the use of bagged game is illegal in the UK, just musing not messing!
gozzhawk

[Jack Merlin]

as i read it the use of bagged game is illegal in the UK

There was the famous case where a famous falconry name (which I've forgotten!) was videoed on behalf an an equally famous animal protection society tossing pigeons for his falcon.

The case was thrown out of court.

Mattspar may have shot himself in the foot if this becomes general knowledge but I am afraid that given the choice I will always come down on the side of the truth and the letter of the law rather than political correctness and spin.

Jack

[Varmint]

Know the case your talking about Jack, well known Scottish Gentleman and his wife.

But what does the law know about training Game Hawk's eh? :lol: :wink:

[ChicM]

So is it legal or not guys. What IS the letter of the law?

[Jack Merlin]

What IS the letter of the law?

You probably don't want to know! But it would probably depend on which piece of legislation you were being prosecuted under -- and whether you were convicted!

Do you hawk crows, starlings, sparrows?

Answer "yes" and my guess is that you are breaking the law. I wonder how many game hawkers have a Game Licence?

Did you know it was illegal, for example, to train a spaniel using the conventional rabbit pen (which every professional spaniel trainer of any standard with have and use)?

And what about giant hoods? Is yours large enough so your bird can spread its wings, etc?

How does Mattspar stand on these issues WITHIN THE UK?

"He who is without sin, etc., etc."

I know enough about the law not to enquire too deeply into such things but to follow my commonsense and my usual regard, as a farmer, for the well being, and humane treatment, of live animals.

I'd like to hear more about Mattspar's credentials and why he thinks he is in a position to tell others (especially those overseas) what they should or should not do. Sounds to me as if he has the paranoia of the self righteous. Easy enough to snipe away behind the cover of anonymity -- and it wouldn't take a genius to work out who I am!<g>

Jack
IANAL (at least, outside the barrack room<g>)

[Gozzhawk]

I'm of the opinion that what you do behind closed doors is ok , as long as it doesnt harm anyone, unless of course you try splitting the atom , that may be dangerouis!!

[Jack Merlin]

Just got this off another list. Looks like it is no longer going to be legal to kill sparrows and starlings, even if they are causing damage to agriculture! Speak of the devil....

HOUSE SPARROW & STARLING - REMOVED FROM GENERAL LICENCES
> The house sparrow and starling are to be removed from
> general licences issued under section 16 of the Wildlife
> and Countryside Act 1981 when the current licences expire
> on 28th February 2005.

Jack

[Wightwings]

only be allowed to hunt worms amd blue bottles soon with a blackbird the way things a :shock: :cry: re going

[Kevin Massey]

It's also a shame that certain persons seem to have missed the point, perhaps deliberately, perhaps not. I have made no great issue regarding legality. I'm perfectly well aware its use is legal in some other countries.


Matt it was you that made the comments in the first place towards some one where it is legal,

its you who have missed the point m8y

Kev

[HawkNorth]

hi is anyone flying sakers or one of the saker hybrids hunting

[BFC 007]

me flying a female 04 saker & a male pere/saker

[BFC 007]

Purchased 04 female saker in January & she is proving difficult to enter.
Any tips or suggestions from any one?
Done long luring, thrown a dead crow,dragged a dead crow & i also place a dead crow in various fields & she leaves the fist straight away & takes it.
Show her a live one & she just bobs her head

[Shaun Byrne]

Give her a live baggy!! joke!!

[BFC 007]

I wish.....putting her up to the kite at the mo to keep her fitness up

[Shaun Byrne]

have you seen the rig Nick Fox uses to keep his crow falcons fit on the kite??

[BFC 007]

No mate,cant say i have. All i use is a clothes peg & small karibener attached 50 ft below kite

[BFC 007]

I was told to hack the bird for a couple of days to let her self hunt but im not so sure,not worth the risk with her being near her lowest weight.

[Shaun Byrne]

Bit risky mate.

basically Nick Fox has a dead crow with its wings spread attached to the end of some strong nylon line. The line is threaded through a swivel on the kite line up near the kite and back down to an assistant on the ground. The bird is released and the assistant starts pulling the line through the swivel to make the crow lift. The dead crow is kept just a bit higher than the bird making it ring up until you let it have it. It is supposed to make the bird more determined as well as keeping it fit and wedded.

[BFC 007]

I shall have to give that a go,maybe get the assistant to hold the dead crow with a fishing rod & reel it up

[Shaun Byrne]

Good idea! You understood my ramblings then. I suppose it just gives the crow a bit more realism?

[BFC 007]

Cool,shall be out there tomorrow & give it a whirl.
Anything is worth a try at the moment,bloody frustrating,maybe she is proving difficult because she's not long been out of the hack pen.
She should really have been trained up last autumn.

[Varmint]

She should really have been trained up last autumn.

Its an uphill battle mate with a late pen bird, still if you get her nice and fit on the kite and keep her going it wont be too long before the first crop of young crows.

Good idea about the fishing rod too! :wink:

[BFC 007]

Mornin' Varmint, shall be out there shortly giving it a go.
Like you said about the young crows,wont be long & hopefully things would have registered by then im determined to have a few before she goes up for a late moult.

[Varmint]

I think the main thing is that she gets a couple under her belt before the moult even if you don't put her down until Sept?

My Imprint rook hawk usually flies from end of May until Oct then has a winter moult, but your bird being an eyass i can appreciate the consern of getting her into adult plummage.