Fist Falcon in the US

[RKumetz]

I am deliberating my options for a new bird and I am seeking opinions. I have large numbers of dairy farms and their associated quarry to hawk. They are not huge open lands like the midwestern US but certainly not suburban lots either. The quarry ranges from small birds (starlings etc), pigeons, crows the occasional duck and during migrating the geese. There are some bunnies but not enough to hawk a few days per week all season. My state only allows a passage RT or Gos and neither are in my opinion the right ticket for someone hawking this quarry who also has a job, etc. Anything else needs to be captive bred. Harris don't like the cold all that much.

I am thinking that hawking crows and the like from the fist would work nicely. A bird waiting on here is a challenge because the land is broken up so if she travels a few minutes "as the crow flies" it could take an hour to go around to get her.

[HawkMom]

I'm thinking for your situation a well-socalized goshawk, a large male would be an ideal bird for your situation. I've been to Vermont and know the terrain you are talking about. It is beautiful up there, but getting around for long telemetry searches with a falcon would take a lot of time. From what others have said on this forum. The European goshawks are of a calmer temperament and don't have 'issues' like the American goshawk. Please correct me if I'm wrong on this.

Watch a good Goshawk in action, I think you would be happy with one.

BTW: Welcome to the forum.

[Jack]

I am of the opinion that crows are not going to offer you any consistancy of slips, and you will most likely have to go with starlings and pigeons. I would exclude any ideas of a falcon because they range wide and fast, and you will not be able to keep up with it. I think if you were to want to fly these situations a Cooper's hawk would be the ticket. A female can easily handle large pigeons and are less intimidated by them than the males, but the males do make very efficient bird hawks. The Cooper's are not prone to carry, they get very tame, and they are very dependable. They are quite fast as well, and can take most of what you have described. I would not fly them at crows though. A really large female can take them, but the crow will fight hard and is well armed, not to mention that they run in gangs. There is a lot to consider here, but I think that small birds like sparrows and starlings and the occasional pigeon would call for such a hawk.

Jack

[RKumetz]

Jack,
I have considered both the coops and a sharpie but since VT does not allow them as either a passage or eyas I would need to either figure out where to take one elsewhere or find a captive bred one. Some states require reciprocal privelages for their falconers (we don't allow non resident trapping) but the logistics of coordinating the acquisition of a bird from a nest in another state is a challenge in itself. Neither are captive bred with any regularity so that option is out. Living in a falconry gulag is not easy. LOL

Ron

[RKumetz]

Kitty,
Thanks. I have considered a male gos. I may be wrong but to hawk around the farms and such it would appear to me that a well socialized and exposed imprint would be the way to fly one. Since most people that call the breeders seem to ask for the "biggest bird ya got" the males are certainly cheaper and easier to acquire.

The down side is that I have never worked with an imprint accipiter before. I flew a perlin a few years back and she turned out ok. She was
moderately successful, well mannered and pretty easy going. There was some of the telemetry drill stuff but not a lot. She wasn't really big enough for crows though in my opinion so I never tried her on them.

I think the first question here would be whether or not I could successfully imprint an accipiter in a house with a teenage girl (remember them: me-me-me-me, oh, there is someone else in the room except me?) and not end up with a basket case. My perlin was easy going enough that kids, dogs and just about anything else were a source of amusement rather than the tigger for neurotic behaviour.

A second consideration is time: the only imprint accipiters that I have seen flown were flown buy folks with no life to speak of, 7 days per week all season. While I can go hawking 3 or 4 days a week I certainly can't maintain that sort of schedule all season long.


So to sum it up: Yes. I have thought of that and no I haven't totally ruled it out. I am simply exploring the possibilities to make a rational decision. I want to have fun with this rather than driving around for hours looking for a slip. I read various publications and posts on the internet and see people looking for elegant slips, classic falconry and all that sort of thing. I simply want to go out with a bird that is not insane and catch some game even if the "game" would be scoffed at by those who are in more
desirable hawking locations.

Thanks for the opinions!

[HawkMom]

Get a tiercel eyass, have your daughter help in raising it. They are SOOOO cute as babies and she will warm up to it quickly. Socialize, socialize socialize, take it everywhere you can. Have other falconers handle the bird, call it, etc. Falconer Bob Little flew a tiercel coops on birds, under any circumstances. The key, was the bird was around humans all of it's life. He even took the bird skeet shooting with him. I was highly impressed with it.

Today, someone just posted a great little video of YouTube: I loved it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHz9aLp11Xs

[RKumetz]

Kitty,
If I thought that I could interest a 15 year old girl who spends more time on her hair every morning than I have in my lifetime in a bird I would do it in a snap. Unfortunately I know her all too well so I am concerned about putting a moody hormonal teenage timebomb in the same house as a potentially tempermental hawk. If I had experience with accipiters I might be less nervous about it. I suspect that one or two moody teenage outbursts, though neither encouraged or well tolerated by us, could be detrimental to the imprinting and socialization process. Perhaps I am being too paranoid but I am the kind of person who attempts to err on the side of caution. I would hate to end up with an aggressive imprint.

I do agree about the cute factor. I raised my perlin and having that fluff ball sleeping next to my keyboard while I was working was a blast. It came to a halt when she could stand up well and got a mute in my keyboard. I work at home so I do have that going for me.

[Alf]

So what hawks do you have available? Alf.

[RKumetz]

Alf,
Do you mean birds that could be trapped or captive bred birds? That is a good question. All sorts of birds can be had if you can afford them. I am trying to narrow down the field. With the exception of lanners and sakers which are price inflated by the bird control market, and pure gyrs which are always very expensive, most hybrid falcons are available. As far as hawks are concerned a passage gos or redtail can be trapped, gos are available from breeders pretty reliably. Other hawks are very hard to come buy because most states allow passage and eyas take from the wild for residents of that state so breeders don't bother.

[OutHawkn]

An HH would also do well and people are flying them in your state.

[RKumetz]

Bill,
I brought one with me when I moved here years ago. He despised the cold and the any sort of wind kept him firmly attached to the fist or a branch.
Keeping a bird that slices in the living room when it is -20 outside can be challenging if not life threatening (for me that is).
Don't get me wrong, they are delightful birds but being a 5 minute walk from Canada may not be the best place for them. It is pretty flat up here so it
is rarely wind free. Most of the falconers that I know are at least 100miles south of here in the mountains. The Equinox (where the falconry school is located) for example, is a 3 1/2 ish hour drive. If I lived in a slightly warmer climate I would have instantly put a deposit on a harris......

I appreciate everyone's comments. It is great to have someone to smack you upside the head and give you a reality check when making a big decision. Sometimes we get blinded and wander off the trail into the woods to wander aimlessly in circles thinking we know where we are going!

Ron

[LongDog]

Your subject line suggests you are interested in a falcon to fly off of the fist. You already have flown a perlin with some success, what about another one of those? Too small for crows, okay, how about a tiercel per/prairie? Or a gyr/merlin? Or a pure peregrine tiercel? Or an aplomado?

Just figure out how much you want to spend, find a breeder, put down the cash and go for it. You'll never know until you try.

Paul

[RKumetz]

Paul,
Those are valid questions indeed. I have also not dismissed the perlin but I am considering my other options.

The perlin was small and was great on small birds like starlings but as you point out that is about the limit. The very small birds tend to disappear here early in the winter and are guaranteed to be scarce when the snow covers the ground. Since I am not near any of the usual small bird magnets like the McDonalds or the Walmart parking lot that is a consideration.

I think that aplomados are probably out of my price range for the moment. I was also amazed at what a pure lanner or saker goes for at the bird control prices.

I understand that I do have lots of options and would like to hear other
falconer's experiences. Learning from other peoples' mistakes is cheaper!
I guess that I am trying to get some input on the capabilities and temperament of the various hybrids in an effort to see which ones are
my best choices.

I have read all sorts of posts from people who point out certain traits as being negative where I would think the opposite. An example is how sakers tend to fly like a cross between a stealth fighter and a lawnmower hugging the ground for a surprise attack. For me a bird that blasts off the fist and hugs the ground is less likely to result in a telemetry drill than a bird that goes up and sees something on the other side of a swamp, etc.

The most difficult part of being a falconer in a state with only a hand full of them is really not the poor regulations as it is the opportunity to see what works for other people and what does not so that you can form your own opinions first hand.

Thanks.
Ron

[hoodwinked]

A tiercel HH would fly anything you put up there ( I flew in Albany), aside from Grey squirrels. If you keep em dry, the cold isnt nearly as big an issue as its been said...mine have flown well down to 0 degrees ambient in dry snow or clear days, and here in KS< I typically have to fly in 15-25 degrees with at least 15 MPH winds. From what I've seen, most species we chase shut down at about the same temp's that I avoid.....There are plenty of ways to get around the weather issue, and the bird would be willing to chase anything you come across while still being forgiving about the family, housing, and relative lack of success.


Talk to others in VT and upstate NY who fly them and ask how many days they really lose to weather. Then add on the fact that youd be able to fly the same starlings and pigeons right through summer without worrying about the hawk.

-Matt