Imprint Harris's?

[Varanus]

I heard recently that imprint Harris's are face grabbers and should be avoided, so what my question is what is every ones take on imprint Harris's and aggression?

Thanks in advance,
varanus

[Riddick]

i hear there also very noisy bird aswell as agressive.

[MarkOfReading]

i hear there also very noisy bird aswell as agressive.

My experience is that they are noisy but not aggressive.

Being a social bird they should have less reason to be aggressive, as the imprinting process makes them believe your another bird in their family group and the harris is the most tolerant of BOP in a social group. There are aggressive HH out there but I don't think it has much to do with imprinting. Other BOP will show more aggression to another BOP even if they are in a social group, compared to a harris

My thoughts, based on my experience

[Eagle Owl]

I have worked with imprint HHs in an education setting, but not for falconry. I have been around 3 that were imprints and all 3 would attack other HHs. One female I had hated men and would jump around the mews avoiding them when they went to get her for a program, but never actually attacked. She was not vocal, but the other 2 were. These birds were flown for demonstrations, but never hunted.

[Harrisii]

Firstly. i have absolute no experience of imprint harris hawks.
although i have read some first hand accounts on this forum about them being not so bad as ones expectations.

secondly. with creche reared, Parent reared, open fronted, exclusion reared harris hawks on the go, is there no limit as to what we can do to rear this bird perfectly?

personally PR birds, in my opinion, are more than good enough to fly, to hunt with, and utilise in any number of styles.
they are abidable, they learn fast, and can be shaped to the falconers needs.
ive not had the experience of flying creche reared birds, although i am told they are pretty good, to say the least.

what would an imprint harris bring to the table that any of the above wouldnt??
i aint knocking your question, no way, but when a PR bird can be so plyable, and tight, etc what benefits are to be expected from imprinting a social species like the harris hawk?

i would also like to hear from others who have tried an imprint harris hawk...

[Varanus]

Never said that I wanted an imprint nor did I say that they would bring anything to the table than a bird raised in a different way. After reading so many posts and threads about imprint Harris's and then hearing from some one that I know that when imprinted they become face grabbers so I was just wondering what people with experience with them had to say about them. People on here seem to be a bit touchy about imprinting.

Thanks to those who answered,
varanus

[Q8e]

what would the benefits be of getting an imprint HH as opposed to an eyass though? I could see the benefits with a goshawk for example but the HH not really.

[Harrisii]

Never said that I wanted an imprint nor did I say that they would bring anything to the table than a bird raised in a different way. After reading so many posts and threads about imprint Harris's and then hearing from some one that I know that when imprinted they become face grabbers so I was just wondering what people with experience with them had to say about them. People on here seem to be a bit touchy about imprinting.

Thanks to those who answered,
varanus


Firstly. i have absolute no experience of imprint harris hawks.
although i have read some first hand accounts on this forum about them being not so bad as ones expectations.

secondly. with creche reared, Parent reared, open fronted, exclusion reared harris hawks on the go, is there no limit as to what we can do to rear this bird perfectly?

personally PR birds, in my opinion, are more than good enough to fly, to hunt with, and utilise in any number of styles.
they are abidable, they learn fast, and can be shaped to the falconers needs.
ive not had the experience of flying creche reared birds, although i am told they are pretty good, to say the least.

what would an imprint harris bring to the table that any of the above wouldnt??
i aint knocking your question, no way, but when a PR bird can be so plyable, and tight, etc what benefits are to be expected from imprinting a social species like the harris hawk?

i would also like to hear from others who have tried an imprint harris hawk...


was it something i said?
i wasnt knocking the questioning, i was nt even cheeky, (for once).
i am as intruegued as you to hear more..

chill man.,

[Varanus]

Wasn't you I was just covering my ass before all of the imprinting is a waste of time guys get ahold of me. Sorry if I seemed a bit defensive but I have seen a lot of people get riped a new one just for asking a question, and a lot of good threads get turned into an argument very quickly. As to the reason for my asking the question I told a friend that I was interested in maybe getting a Harris's and was told that if I do I should stay away from imprints as they are face grabbers so I thought that I would seek the more insight into this from people with experience with imprint Harris's. Sorry if I seemed rude I was just getting ready for what I thought was going to be another one of those threads that turns in to an argument.

varanus

[harrishawker1]

Its not a good idea to get a imprint harris hawk period.
But let me tell you a few facts, not all imprints will be face grabbers, if you socalize them well and handle them a lot they will become dog tame.
Use a molted feather and hold/man the imprint as much as you can, all the time stroking him/her with the feather, the feet, head, under the beak area, its wings, legs and back, after you have done this and get the feel that your imprint harris is use to your hands all over him/her then start useing your bare hands and repeat the same steps as when you were useing the feather.
Take him/her for walks around traffic, other strange people, dogs and lots of noise, keep him/her busy. curious as to whats going on.
Feed tireings from the gloved hand on a regular baseis.
The time you take to do this will make for a safe bird to use in falconry, dont take short cuts, spend the time and you will have a hunting machine for many years.
You will most likely have a screemer on your hands even after all your hard work and time, so make sure you can put up with it.
Anyways try your best to get your harris hawk at 16 weeks or older.

[Mark Bird]

I have a fhh imprint...She was a spitting mess when i took her on and would allow no one within a few yards without launching an attack... im pleased to say she's calmed right down. She isnt vocal to any great degree, she will allow me to handle her without problem but she doe snt like being on the glove for long periods within her territory as it were,preferring to be on her perch or vantage point. I can see what people mean by the face grabbing, but feel this is defence response when feeling vulnerable. She is tollerant of other birds, even to the point of watching songbirds in the garden with her head upside down!!! whats that all about? haha So put plainly i have no issues with the behaviour of my bird, she just responds well to manning and care but does require stimulation to divert her energies.

Mark b

[FrootDog]

I know of one that took a girl off a bicycle and had to be euthanised. My former sponsor flew a couple and they flew well together, did great with him, but were iffy at best around people they were not familiar with. They both had a long list of people they had grabbed in the field, or faces that got grabbed from getting too close to them either while in the mews or on a perch.

[Kaiser]

I have 5 Harris, 2 are hand reared to see the difference. The female is just over a year old, she started out noisy but once hunting has stopped all noise!
very much like many more traditionaly trained Harris.
She has never attacked anyone and is used for experience days.
The male is 7 months old and squeeks alot but does not scream.
He also has been a pleasure since day one! He will fly to anyone who raises a glove. I dont feel I have gained anything copared to my other Harris but also havnt lost anything either. As for face grabbing, I have seen traditional trained Harris do this also, so it may be other factors that contribute to this.
Keith

[Sparticus]

i have to ask what may seem a stupid question in reply, why the heel would you need to imprint a harris hawk? they are without doubt the easiest bird to man, train and fly, they have enabled more people than ever to be able to take up falconry in it's now variable forms.
as recent year,s have shown there is a glut of bird,s on the market due to the ease with which they breed so negating the need for AI, so i again ask why the hell imprint a harris.

[Eagle Owl]

i have to ask what may seem a stupid question in reply, why the heel would you need to imprint a harris hawk? they are without doubt the easiest bird to man, train and fly, they have enabled more people than ever to be able to take up falconry in it's now variable forms.
as recent year,s have shown there is a glut of bird,s on the market due to the ease with which they breed so negating the need for AI, so i again ask why the hell imprint a harris.

He has already answered that question...no need to ask it again :rolleyes:

[PD Harris]

i had a imprint fhh a few yrs back and she was a brilliant hunter but as you say if they see you there noisy she used to shout all the time i was around until i put her in box to go out she shut up straight away and never made a noise while out hunting,she was never aggressive towards any one and had no fear at all,but she didnt like other birds any were near her and on the few occasions i did take her out with another female she used to always try to land on same branches knocking other female off she didnt grab or tussle but i wouldnt have trusted her,but then again ive seen alot of harris that shout as much as she did and arnt imprints

[PenelopeP]

I have worked with imprint HHs in an education setting, but not for falconry. I have been around 3 that were imprints and all 3 would attack other HHs. One female I had hated men and would jump around the mews avoiding them when they went to get her for a program, but never actually attacked. She was not vocal, but the other 2 were. These birds were flown for demonstrations, but never hunted.

Could the agression be more down to the fact the wernt killing rather than whatever happened during the imprint process?

[SBFalconry]

regardless of the problems i cant really see what is to gain by imprinting a harris, it is probably one of the most placid and pleasing hawks to fly, they bond very easy with the falconer and are very quick learning:confused:
Stu

[Gary F]

regardless of the problems i cant really see what is to gain by imprinting a harris, it is probably one of the most placid and pleasing hawks to fly, they bond very easy with the falconer and are very quick learning:confused:
Stu
nice post stu,, and some are so ****ing noisey without imprinting,, i wouldnt bother

[FlameHairedFalconer]

I have handled and flown several imprint harrises - imprinted in the days when harrises were still expensive and it wasnt seen as such a no-no to imprint them.

2 out of the 3 I flew were lovely birds, just like any other harris, but a bit noisier. The third had been imprinted then stuck out of sight and left to its own devices for a year. This bird was nasty, footy and scared of everything. It was eventually brought round, became a good hunter and was fine in company, but was a one person bird when it came to its handler.

FHF

[CJTaylor]

why for the life of me, would anyone want to imprint an harris !, its beyond me, the route seems to be, harris then on to imprint gosses, i fear that all the old handleing skills are going to be lost!, a thread Tim L did some months ago found that the majority of gosses trained today are actually imprints! I understand some people will imprint for breeding etc, and thats fine, but like a few other guys i strongly believe people imprint through their own lack of confidence in getting the best out of a pr!wether its hunting weight/ability or tameness in the hunting feild...colin

[ScottBrady]

I heard recently that imprint Harris's are face grabbers and should be avoided, so what my question is what is every ones take on imprint Harris's and aggression?

Thanks in advance,
varanus

theres no point, in my opinion you only imprint a bird to take the edge off it......

harrises are so well mannered (when they are properly manned) i could never see the point in imprinting one.

[Kentish Falconry]

Not the best bird to even consider Imprinting, by this I mean full Imprinting. hand reared in a group and they make good demo birds but can still be noisy in the Field if hunted and down to weight.
Personally I would avoid both ways and just go for Parent Reared as they are almost all nice and social and make great hunting partners for those who do not have the time or experience for a Goshawk or Longwing
Terry :)

[CanadaManada]

I wouldn't want an imprint HH.
However, the Japanese DO! They want imprint ANYTHING, generally speaking. There are a few good ones, but the rest could be described as "hot", to say the least.
Terry's right. PR has no shortcomings.

Justin

[SGC]

I've had many Hariss. Just one imprint and one parent-raised, the rest were passage. The imprint screamed from sunup to sundown, but he was never aggresive. He would litteraly follow me like a dog. I would take him out of the mews when I was outside and he would never leave; I could walk back to the house, he would follow, I would go inside the house and he would sit in a tree and wait for me to come back out...he would not leave. The pr Harris screamed constantly his first year except while hunting and he never got aggresive, he was a one-man bird though, but he never attacked anyone, he just didn't like other people. All the passage Harriss became as tame as a dog as well. I know that falconers accross the pond don't have access to passage Harriss; but my point is that I see no need to imprint a Harris.

[Jackson]

i wouldnt imprint a hh! had experience with one - he was fine for the first 6 months - handled by quite a few people i think and bvery sweet but then he turned against everyone except the imprinters and the occassional stranger!!
also dont see why you would want to imprint a hh as there is no benefit as ifar as i can se :wink:
atb
sarah
x

[Eagle Owl]

Could the agression be more down to the fact the wernt killing rather than whatever happened during the imprint process?

I don't think so. I think her aggression was because an idiot imprinted her. He illegally bred her and then kept her around for 2 years so she could be a breeder. He allowed her to get frostbite and she lost 3 toes. He was just stupid and created a monster as they say. But she loved women...would fly to my shoulder and carefully bite on my ear. She was very gentle with women!

[Pink_Eagle]

Personally I would avoid both ways and just go for Parent Reared as they are almost all nice and social and make great hunting partners for those who do not have the time or experience for a Goshawk or Longwing


I would always go for pr HH, have known people who have imprinted them and if done correctly it can be a bonus

I think that last bit is a bit off tbh, harris/gos/longwings are all very different birds and flown differently

[Andrew Connor]

they shouldn need to be imprinted

[Matthew Patching]

why for the life of me, would anyone want to imprint an harris !, its beyond me, the route seems to be, harris then on to imprint gosses, i fear that all the old handleing skills are going to be lost!, a thread Tim L did some months ago found that the majority of gosses trained today are actually imprints! I understand some people will imprint for breeding etc, and thats fine, but like a few other guys i strongly believe people imprint through their own lack of confidence in getting the best out of a pr!wether its hunting weight/ability or tameness in the hunting feild...colin

I disagree, and imprint is far harder to make good than a pr regardless of species, there are so many things that can be ****ed up with an imprint, as well as all the things that can be ****ed up anyway. Imrpints require a much broader attitude than a parent reared ever will!

[Matthew Patching]

I would go for a group reared harris over any other sort, any day of the week, and none of the 'you shouldnt need to' answers do it for me.

Unless you have experienced all the broad spectrums of harris hawks then you are not qualified to answer.

I have trained harris hawks from egg stage right the way through to pr taken at 26/27 weeks.

Out of the pr ones that I have done, those taken at about 10-12 weeks have always been the most satisfactory, but a group reared harris done well, and understood for what it is, and training methods adapted for the individual bird knocks the socks off of any parent reared harris by a long chalk.

I dont expect you to believe me, no one ever deos, and this isnt the first post that I have put up on the subject.

But to put it in words that are easy to understand, 'there are no secrets as to why that harris that I have had the longest (11 years) is a group reared bird that I did myself. The simple fact of the matter is that none of the other ones have even come close to being as good, interms of manners (I can hand feed him with him loose on the glove), how biddable he is, (having had several different hh on film sets, my first choice is always him), how he reacts to quarry, (I have seen him outfly, outmatch and out manouver many parent reared hh just because he is flown higher, therefore fitter, and with more muscle, without being over a good hunting weight. He is non-vocal, and due to having somthing like 10 head under his belt before he was hard penned was mostly flown on appetite during his fist 6 months, so that combined with regular hunting (somthing like 130 head in his first season) negated any bad habits. He did screan for about a week when I first started hunting him, due to the change over from parent to hunting partner.

I have never had more than 10 minutes where I havnt known where he is while flying, and on the one occassion I did misplace him for about 5 minutes he was under a load of bracken with a hen pheasant. He has never been flown with telem.

He deos mantle, but so do wild harris hawks that hunt in packs, and that is exactly what we are. He is never footy, however, and I can hand him parts of his kills that I want to feed him, barehanded, without fear of being nailed.

Compared to some of the parent reared birds (especialy late take birds that I have seen) he could very well be of a different species.

Just my thoughts, When he dies, and if I need to replace him I would do another exactly the same. without hesitation.

I have done several for other people and all except 2 have turned out exactly the same, the 2 that didnt turned into screamers, because there owners ignored advise and treid to train them like you would a P/R, neither are aggressive!

[Varanus]

Thanks to everyone who actually gave an answer to my question instead of just bashing imprinting Harris's. :roll:To everyone else again I never once said that I wanted to imprint one I only asked because I was told to avoid an imprint due to face grabbing which I found odd because they are a social species and wanted to here what people with EXPERIENCE with imprinted Harris's had to say on the issue.

Thanks again,
varanus

[CanadaManada]

I would go for a group reared harris over any other sort, any day of the week, and none of the 'you shouldnt need to' answers do it for me.

Unless you have experienced all the broad spectrums of harris hawks then you are not qualified to answer.

I have trained harris hawks from egg stage right the way through to pr taken at 26/27 weeks.

Out of the pr ones that I have done, those taken at about 10-12 weeks have always been the most satisfactory, but a group reared harris done well, and understood for what it is, and training methods adapted for the individual bird knocks the socks off of any parent reared harris by a long chalk.

I dont expect you to believe me, no one ever deos, and this isnt the first post that I have put up on the subject.

But to put it in words that are easy to understand, 'there are no secrets as to why that harris that I have had the longest (11 years) is a group reared bird that I did myself. The simple fact of the matter is that none of the other ones have even come close to being as good, interms of manners (I can hand feed him with him loose on the glove), how biddable he is, (having had several different hh on film sets, my first choice is always him), how he reacts to quarry, (I have seen him outfly, outmatch and out manouver many parent reared hh just because he is flown higher, therefore fitter, and with more muscle, without being over a good hunting weight. He is non-vocal, and due to having somthing like 10 head under his belt before he was hard penned was mostly flown on appetite during his fist 6 months, so that combined with regular hunting (somthing like 130 head in his first season) negated any bad habits. He did screan for about a week when I first started hunting him, due to the change over from parent to hunting partner.

I have never had more than 10 minutes where I havnt known where he is while flying, and on the one occassion I did misplace him for about 5 minutes he was under a load of bracken with a hen pheasant. He has never been flown with telem.

He deos mantle, but so do wild harris hawks that hunt in packs, and that is exactly what we are. He is never footy, however, and I can hand him parts of his kills that I want to feed him, barehanded, without fear of being nailed.

Compared to some of the parent reared birds (especialy late take birds that I have seen) he could very well be of a different species.

Just my thoughts, When he dies, and if I need to replace him I would do another exactly the same. without hesitation.

I have done several for other people and all except 2 have turned out exactly the same, the 2 that didnt turned into screamers, because there owners ignored advise and treid to train them like you would a P/R, neither are aggressive!

Matt,

If someone wanted to go down this route with a HH, would you be willing to post a more detailed description of your rearing and training technique? I'd be interested to hear more about the training.

Justin

[Matthew Patching]

Matt,

If someone wanted to go down this route with a HH, would you be willing to post a more detailed description of your rearing and training technique? I'd be interested to hear more about the training.

Justin

Ill go back through my old posts, and see if I can find the post that I put up on the last thread that went this way.

[Leo 1]

I heard recently that imprint Harris's are face grabbers and should be avoided, so what my question is what is every ones take on imprint Harris's and aggression?

Thanks in advance,
varanus

my fhh is a imprint and she is silant and non agressive to me lol

[Varanus]

Matt I am also interested in more information about your process as I have never heard of group rearing before. Also thanks tigger for the reply.


Thanks all,
varanus

[Matthew Patching]

Here is somthing that I wrote along time ago, but still more or less holds water, one thing I have learned since writing this, is that they are all so different, and although I would use this as a basis, for further group rearing, each bird would be worked with on its strong points.

Group rearing is not for the lazy, faint hearted, and anyone that assumes that because its an imprint its gonna be easy.

Imprints can be exceptionaly easy to get doing what a normal parent reared bird will do, but you get huge amounts of negatives from treating it like a parent reared bird. Treating it like an imprint, and using this to your advantage takes more work, more throught, and more patience than any parent reared bird ever will.

Group (crèche) rearing Harris Hawks

By. Matthew Alan Patching.


The ideal crèche rearing setup for me is as follows.

Hatched in an incubator for starters, then forceps reared until about 15 days old, they will then pick finely chopped food for themselves and at this stage the food is brought to them still, although I will use a hood to disguise the fact that I am going to replace the food dish. They are never left to go hungry and should never need to call for food. If sibling rivalry is witnessed at this stage, they should be put into separate nests within view of each other.

By 25 to 30 days (males usually 25, females over 30 days) they should be starting to stand up, or at least sitting up strongly, at this point start taking them to there food. I usually pick a different place each time, One feed may see me on the back garden, the next might be in the boot of the car, the next might be in Tesco’s car park, (I'm sure that you get the picture)

By the time they are standing properly for long periods they can be put into an open fronted aviary for most of the day, although right the way through I a would continue feeding 4 or 5 times a day, (little and often is the key to curbing screaming). They will bath regularly at this stage, and flight feathers will be showing well.

Once able to sit on a bow perch (without being tethered or restrained) they each spend part of the day (or night I’m a **** sleeper) on the fist, usually while I am sat down, here they frequently just put a foot up and relax. If they do bail they are not restrained. They may need to be helped down to the floor with the right hand.

Once flight feathers are coming on (about 2-3 inch showing food should be placed in the aviary before they go out, and it should be hidden (not so well that they cannot find it) so that they get stimulated looking for there food and don’t sit there getting bored, ( I would still be feeding up to 4 times a day)

Once they can get up to the uppermost perches in the aviary, they should go to there new owners (if selling them, there new owner should be aware that what he/she is getting is a crèche reared Harris, and should be told that he needs to reduce its food intake slightly, and begin training immediately)

If being kept for personal use, I would reduce food slightly at the mid day meal, and then get the bird to hop from a bow perch to a lure ( the lure can be introduced at a very early stage and then forgotten about, you can guarantee that the bird will remember). Its full evening ration is fed at this point. The following morning entice the bird to jump to the fist for a small tidbit, then throw out the lure and feed the remainder.

By lunch time you should be able to repeat the procedure, and then again in the evening.

Each day the bird should increase slightly in weight, but this is generally not food, it is just extra feather length coupled with the shafts being full of blood, do not try and cut the bird down this would be disastrous, just keep training it simply, and work on hunger.

By the 4th or 5th day the bird should be coming fair distances to the fist or lure, now you can start gentle fitness training with lure flights, and once it has become confident and understands about the chase (and the head hold) you can progress to hunting (even though the young bird may still be 3 days to a week from hard penning)

Keep those early weeks as varied as possible, lure flights, hunting, varied landscapes, and don’t stick it on a bow perch ( or any sort of perch for that matter) for significant lengths of time. Being used to the bow perch from its early days in the aviary it will sit happily for hours on the bloody thing but this is not the time for it to be sat idle for extended periods.

Even at this stage keep it entertained, by bringing it in the house, so that it can see what’s going on, (this is something that I do right the way through the birds life, and when I am at home it is not unusual for one or both of my Harris hawks to spend there evenings sat on top of a door, sometimes even spending the night there.) when young they will do allsorts of comical things like hunting the dogs tail, to preening your partners hair, all this does is keep them occupied.

Once the bird understands that the fist provides food, and will readily hop to it with no food visible, do away with fist feeding, and just feed on the lure for the time being, as this removes any direct feeding, so allowing the bird to start to mentally mature, once the bird is coming good distances to an ungarnished fist, (in expectation of the lure) you can start doing long lure pursuits with the bird, to further its mental maturity, mix it up a bit, I use recall pads, dummy bunnies, rabbit skins with the head attached as well as whole carcasses, anything to remove direct feeding, (obviously you will need food for the transfer, but I tend to use a thrown reward at this stage, then while they are eating quickly remove any lures or carcasses, and once they have finished and poked around on the ground for anything that is left they will usually hop straight up to the fist.


For the guy that worries about hand reared Harris hawks getting (aggressive?) when they reach sexual maturity, the only problems I have had in this department have all been with parent reared birds ( regardless of the age that they were taken at). Thoughtfully reared they never seem to develop any faults in this way.

[Malcolm Edgar]

Very instructive post Matt - thank you.
M

[Varanus]

Yes thank you Matt that has given me some food for thought as I have been tossing around the idea of getting a pair of Harris's for next season.

Thanks,
varanus

[CH_Rtail]

hi Varanus.
i have had / reared creche, imprint, and social imprints. i have found them all to be very good and if reared correctly and trained properly they are nice natured easy going birds. i had noise from the imprint but not the others and if i were getting another hh i would certainly do the same again.

[HuntersRest69]

hi, i have flown an imprint harris, and he was an absolute dream, but to be fair, i did spend every second of the day with him during his first few months, and when other commitments meant i couldn't spend somuch time, he did get very vocal. never nasty though.
just to compare, i have also had a mhh from same parents as the one above who was completely parent reared and he was dangerous, definate face grabber!

[Varanus]

Thanks everyone for replying.:supz::supz::supz:

varanus

[CuCulaine]

I would go for a group reared harris over any other sort, any day of the week, and none of the 'you shouldnt need to' answers do it for me.

Unless you have experienced all the broad spectrums of harris hawks then you are not qualified to answer.

I have trained harris hawks from egg stage right the way through to pr taken at 26/27 weeks.

Out of the pr ones that I have done, those taken at about 10-12 weeks have always been the most satisfactory, but a group reared harris done well, and understood for what it is, and training methods adapted for the individual bird knocks the socks off of any parent reared harris by a long chalk.

I dont expect you to believe me, no one ever deos, and this isnt the first post that I have put up on the subject.

But to put it in words that are easy to understand, 'there are no secrets as to why that harris that I have had the longest (11 years) is a group reared bird that I did myself. The simple fact of the matter is that none of the other ones have even come close to being as good, interms of manners (I can hand feed him with him loose on the glove), how biddable he is, (having had several different hh on film sets, my first choice is always him), how he reacts to quarry, (I have seen him outfly, outmatch and out manouver many parent reared hh just because he is flown higher, therefore fitter, and with more muscle, without being over a good hunting weight. He is non-vocal, and due to having somthing like 10 head under his belt before he was hard penned was mostly flown on appetite during his fist 6 months, so that combined with regular hunting (somthing like 130 head in his first season) negated any bad habits. He did screan for about a week when I first started hunting him, due to the change over from parent to hunting partner.

I have never had more than 10 minutes where I havnt known where he is while flying, and on the one occassion I did misplace him for about 5 minutes he was under a load of bracken with a hen pheasant. He has never been flown with telem.

He deos mantle, but so do wild harris hawks that hunt in packs, and that is exactly what we are. He is never footy, however, and I can hand him parts of his kills that I want to feed him, barehanded, without fear of being nailed.

Compared to some of the parent reared birds (especialy late take birds that I have seen) he could very well be of a different species.

Just my thoughts, When he dies, and if I need to replace him I would do another exactly the same. without hesitation.

I have done several for other people and all except 2 have turned out exactly the same, the 2 that didnt turned into screamers, because there owners ignored advise and treid to train them like you would a P/R, neither are aggressive!

Right on the button, as my experience mirrors yours.

[SBFalconry]

imprint harris WHY they are so pleasing to fly p/r they bond very well to you what do you want to gain?

[Martin Hollinshead]

In the UK, the group reared Harris’ has been around for a long time. It was discovered – fallen in love with – then pushed out as we became obsessed with trying to create the totally silent parabuteo. Now, because falconry has trends and fads to rival the fashion industry, it is once again arousing interest – being rediscovered. Well, by some. For the commercial operator it never disappeared. Those running Falconry Schools – and what better example than the Fords – have stayed true to the group reared bird – have in fact, through a period that would have seen breeders drop the group reared bird totally, kept it available by demanding it and only it.
I have flown a good few of these birds – some finishing off their development in closed pens, others reared right through in open pens – and like it a lot. Handled correctly, and of course coming from good stock, it truly as good as Matt says. And if I can be forgiven a bit of advertising, I discuss it a good deal in the Complete Rabbit & Hare Hawk, and also in A Passion for Harris’ hawks.
Martin
http://business.virgin.net/fernhill.press/book3.htm

[RileyHall Falconry]

ive flown both male and female imprints if you can put up with the noise they are great birds but if you cant put up with noise then it a big no no im not saying that there all noisey if i could get another male like my first bird witch was a imprint i would with out thinking but unless they are reard and socalized correctly i wouldnt have 1 there is something about imprint birds across the range i just love them but iv havent had a bad one yet until i do my mind wont change atb lee

[RedtailHawk1]

I have a MHH that I am told is an imprint when I got him. He is none volcal and not aggressive. Have flown him at 1lb 12.5oz (not hunting). Hunts at 1lb 9oz.

[Matthew Patching]

Right on the button, as my experience mirrors yours.

The male I talked about in the above post sadly died at the begining of may from a heart defect that the vet thinks he had had all his life. I'm not replacing him as I doubt I'll ever have another that comes close to him. I have been messing about with the female that he was in with, and while I'm all geed up for a season with the gos, I just can't get into her at the moment.

[ReluctantTwitcher]

The male I talked about in the above post sadly died at the begining of may from a heart defect that the vet thinks he had had all his life. I'm not replacing him as I doubt I'll ever have another that comes close to him. I have been messing about with the female that he was in with, and while I'm all geed up for a season with the gos, I just can't get into her at the moment.

Really sorry to hear about your loss Matthew. :cry:
I know those special ones can never be replaced, but I hope things improve somewhat at least as the season progresses.

Best regards,
/Magnus