Mews/Aviary Wiring [Archive] - Falconry Forum (IFF)

Shaun Byrne

31-01-2005, 02:06 PM

As of 1st January 2005 the law regarding any electrical work undertaken on domestic property has changed.

It is now Illegal to carry out electrical work, even in your own home, unless you are a qualified, registered electrician and then only if you are a member of a conforming body.

To make things even more difficult for us as falconers is the fact that anything wired outside our home i.e. Sheds, Mews, Aviaries etc is considered a "special location" and is subject to even tighter control and regulation.

Up until now the wiring regulations have been only advisory but are now law as the gas regulations have been for years.

So beware :!: Next time you lash up some lights or sockets outside, you are breaking the law and also putting your own and other peoples lives at risk :twisted:

Varmint

31-01-2005, 06:41 PM

So call H4wka electrical for a fast response and cheap price!:lol:

GlennB

31-01-2005, 07:00 PM

Or don't let people find out you installed it AFTER the 1st Jan 2005!!

Shaun Byrne

31-01-2005, 07:54 PM

No point calling me, since the new regs came out I cant get enough men!!!! Anybody know any decent electricians that want a job, start tomorrow!!

ChicM

31-01-2005, 08:19 PM

Can you clarify then - this new law applies only to work that has been carried out subsequent to 1st Jan 2005? All existing work is ok? Would anyone know if this law also applies in Scotland where, as we all know, the legal system is much more civilised...

Shaun Byrne

31-01-2005, 08:30 PM

Its always been a requirement of the wiring regs that all wiring be tested and certified in accordance with BS7671. Its just that up until Jan 1 it wasn't statutory ie Law.

Installations carried out before this date should still have been tested, if anyone got hurt you would have to explain why it wasn't.

It affects us more than most as a great deal of our time is spent in buildings with electrical supplies outside our homes. This law has been passed to try and cut the number of deaths and fires caused by inadequate wiring.

I suppose with it being a British Standard it applies in Scotland as well but I'm not 100% sure.

ChicM

31-01-2005, 08:36 PM

Cheers. Makes sense tho - electricity is dangerous after all and I for one am bloody useless at wiring.

Shaun Byrne

31-01-2005, 08:49 PM

It all sounds a load of bo**ocks really but if you saw the things i have to go and inspect after an accident you would understand why they have introduced the new laws.

Wightwings

31-01-2005, 09:54 PM

I work in H&S and have been asked this question on many occasion regarding the new laws.
I always reply simply.........how are they going to police it????? they cannot.

its aimed at the peeps that want to upgrade/renovate houses homes etc etc ........but asked the question "when did you do it?".........before jan 2005 is the answer.

regarding outside bits and bots for your mews etc i really would not get too concerned as you would prob disconnect and take with you if you moved........other than than again you did it pre 2005.........they cannot prove anything else.............like H4 said its B*ll*cks.

By the way i know naff all about sparks but am tempted to learn.

Shaun Byrne

31-01-2005, 10:38 PM

The big problems start when you come to sell your house. Soon it will be law that the seller must supply a current test certificate. If your wiring is not to standard you will have to get it fixed before you sell.
The main thing I was drawing attention to is outside buildings. Because they look temporary and are away from our houses the wiring tends to be lashed in any old how, when in fact there are more regs concerning these installations than inside your house.
Its alright trying to pull the wool over building controls eyes, thats easy, its what happens when, God forbid, someone gets fried because of poor wiring.
Oh! And dont forget as of next year all the cable colours change as well just to confuse everyone even more!! lol!!

GlennB

01-02-2005, 07:30 AM

If you do 'accidently' run a supply out to your mews or other 'outbuilding' am I right in saying its best to use an RCD to provide better protection? Just something that I've been told.

Shaun Byrne

01-02-2005, 07:33 AM

Yes mate, anything outside your property needs to satisfy certain particular regs, one being the use of an RCD.

GlennB

01-02-2005, 07:37 AM

Righty oh, so if you had your mews etc, fed from an RCD plug and say plugged into a socket in your garage so it could be removed, would this be a classed as a 'temporary' installation as it is not hard wired?
Just a thought as you could then un plug it when you aren't using it.

Shaun Byrne

01-02-2005, 07:58 AM

Thats a tricky one mate! The installation would still need to be tested as it still consists of fixed wiring, just like a porta cabin that can move from site to site, or a Caravan.

Will

01-02-2005, 09:55 AM

It's also worth bearing in mind, if you do install anything, ie. sockets, light switches etc, check the back of them. Most manufacturers will put a datecode on their products, usually just a paper sticker. Make sure you take it off if it's a recent one. You can't bluff them if your connection unit was only made this year!

Shaun Byrne

01-02-2005, 03:37 PM

I think you can see from most of the posts above, the reason why this law has had to be brought into force. The idea isn't to blag the powers that be, its to prevent people like you and you're family being killed.
Getting back to our mews, the wiring regs are in place to protect "persons, property and livestock" all of which are relevant to us as falconers.

GlennB

02-02-2005, 07:40 AM

Cheers for you help H4wka, just gotta find me a helpful electricain friend now!!

ChrisG

02-02-2005, 08:09 AM

Why is it that the likes of B&Q sell electrical gear to anyone, you'd think that there would be some license in place to say you are competent like when buying cartridges?

How do you become qualified, is there a level you can obtain simply that will allow you to put in a new socket?

Shaun Byrne

02-02-2005, 09:01 AM

Up until January you could do as you like in your own home as it wasn't covered under the H&S regs as a place of work.
As of January you cannot do any new electrical work whatsoever, even install a new socket without informing building control. If you are a qualified electrician AND a member of a conforming body such as the NIC EIC you can certify your own work and the conforming body will inform building control on your behalf.
There has already been prosecutions for failure to comply with the new regs so it looks like they mean business.
So to answer your question, its not just a matter of being qualified, its being qualified enough to become a member of a conforming body. I had to go back to college for 9 weeks just so the NIC EIC would consider letting me in. I know people that have been in business 25yrs plus, that are jacking it all in, just because of this change in the law.

Will

02-02-2005, 11:06 AM

H4wka, I absolutely take your point, I just find it frustrating to stand back and watch a family member spend a small fortune having a small, easy job done. It's also a damn shame that people with years of experience are now considered cowboys until they have that little sticker on the side of their vans. But, like the man says, safety first, DIY second. Anybody know a good sparky? :)

Shaun Byrne

02-02-2005, 11:13 AM

Dont get me wrong mate, I agree, if someone has the knowhow and ability to wire up their shed, aviary mews etc. They should be allowed to do it. The only problem is for every person that knows how to do it there's 100s that dont and dozens of people hurt.

Will

02-02-2005, 11:31 AM

You're quite right, there's a big difference between confidence and competence. Some people who think they know what they're doing make some shocking mistakes! :) It just reminds me of all the good plumbers we lost cos of CORGI's costs. I'm just glad I haven't got to re-do mine just yet. Anyway, good thread. Hopefully, people will at least think twice before waving a screwdriver around!

Shaun Byrne

02-02-2005, 01:48 PM

Trouble is people think because you condemn their wiring you're looking for work. They dont realise the strict regulations we have to abide by.

Will

02-02-2005, 01:56 PM

The last time I saw the regs book I didn't know whether to read it or block my drive with it! I know in my place of work, outside contractors have had to condemn our own lads' work on occasion. But rules are rules.
You know customers will always suspect an angle, but they're always quite happy to take free advice when you could be out earning! You'll never win!

GlennB

02-02-2005, 05:57 PM

ChrisG wrote
Why is it that the likes of B&Q sell electrical gear to anyone, you'd think that there would be some license in place to say you are competent like when buying cartridges?

I've been into PC World and never been asked what I want them for!!!
Only time I find it dangerous is after buying the cartridges, if they don't go in properly, I THROW THE PRINTER ACROSS THE ROOM!!! That could be seen as dangerous!! :D :D

Albie

02-02-2005, 08:23 PM

ChrisG

03-02-2005, 08:06 AM

H4wka, are you allowed to do the wiring yourself and then get it checked by someone qualified to save a few quid?

ChrisG

Shaun Byrne

03-02-2005, 08:34 AM

No mate, no matter who carries out the work, building control must be informed and a test certificate issued in accordance with BS. Unless a contractor has carried out the work himself he is not allowed to certify the installation. You would be hard pushed to find a reputable electrician that would do it anyway. Anyone who does wont be in business for very long.

Shaun Byrne

03-02-2005, 08:36 AM

Aye aye Glenn,
My Mate Jock is a top guy when it comes to electricks or even electrics he professionally wired my Mews and Bird room for me and if you can't find anyone near to you I can ask him for you.
Albie.. :wink:

He might be good Nimbus but if he didn't certify the job and check your existing wiring was up to standard he is leaving himself open to prosecution and you with an unsafe installation.

Sorry if he did :lol:

Shaun

Albie

04-02-2005, 05:59 PM

He is good Ken, and so far the only electrican I would trust to do my work cause like me he's time served and learn't it the right way.
And forget all this red tape, cause when it comes to safety if you know your job/trade and like my mate, can only do that job the right and safe way wouldn't you have him do your work.
And let me tell you all that's reading this, having worked all these years as a lowley painter and decorator my mate Jock is the only electrican I know that turns up on the job with his own steps etc and dos'nt have to borrow other trades gear, and would you believe this! He even clears any mess he makes and never ever leaves bits of wire all over the place ..
Thats why I would reccomend My mate Jock and all his skills as a Good tradesman.
Albie.. :wink:

Shaun Byrne

04-02-2005, 06:53 PM

Dont doubt he is a top class tradesman but like I said if he aint issueing a certificate and playing by the rules he aint doing his job right. I'm not judging him personally and I'm not saying I agree with all the red tape, just stating a fact.
Oh and the new working at height regs are banning the use of steps and ladders on site!! lol!!

GlennB

04-02-2005, 06:57 PM

Yep, thats pants too!
Is it, if you are working above 6ft you cant use steps?
Well if thats the case, best get my portable scaffolding out everytime i work on a supermarket fridge!!!! :lol:

Shaun Byrne

04-02-2005, 08:47 PM

No kidding mate, we're working at a school at the minute and we cant even use steps in the new classrooms. Every time we change rooms the scaffold has to be stripped and put back up.

Wightwings

04-02-2005, 09:00 PM

pmsl........you would'nt get on any of my sites with steps unless we llow it.............AND only under a permit system. :shock:

My site managers hate it but its company policy.......so if you tender for any Mansell work take it into account in your tender :wink:

Shaun Byrne

04-02-2005, 09:23 PM

I've just spent £3.5k on folding indoor scaffolds!! Its going to cost £1000s more in man hours chasing the theiving gits around the site that keep nicking bits off them!!!

Wightwings

05-02-2005, 03:33 PM

just think how much it will save you because some trainee spark has'nt fell off the top rung of a step and suffered brain damage..............we had that last year and we are part of the Balfour Beatty group and we arnt excempt from prosecution. I know it all seems a little crazy but being a responsible employer mate you know it makes sense. :roll: :wink: