Teita Falcon

[Ben C]

Anyone know the results of this Falcon? Is it used and if so at what and how?

http://www.peregrinefund.org/Explore_Raptors/falcons/teitafal.html

Thanks

Ben

[David Rampling]

Anyone know the results of this Falcon? Is it used and if so at what and how?

http://www.peregrinefund.org/Explore_Raptors/falcons/teitafal.html

Thanks

Ben

I remember long ago reading about some falconer who had seen them in the wild, he thought they flew like a mini Peregrine and had real potential. Though he never got his hands on one.

[David Rampling]

Though I think that was spelt Taita Falcon, is that the same bird do you think?

[Hatchero]

i have flown and bred a few of them as well as a hybrid tiercel (teita/barbary). the are wonderful birds that almost always wait on out of sight high. small birds are very terrified of them and are hard to get the quarry to stay in the air with them. they are very peregrine like in their behavior and vocalization and look somewhat like a peregrine when flying. i think the teita falcon has the "hardest" stoop of any bird i have seen and they have an amazing ability to control their stoop even though they are in a high speed tear drop. on a couple of occassions i witnessed the most amazing thing, the teita came stooping from a vast pitch at some sort of small bird the the little bird flew fast and low accross the grassy field and went up under my truck to escape just as my teita caught up to it. the teita , still in a teardrop stoop zipped right under my truck and threw up out the other side. a few guys were with me and were as amazed as i was. on another occasion the teita did exactly the same move only passed under the truck form front to back! just about as cool as anything i have seen. teitasa are however, specialists and like to fly in the hills--the windier it is the better they fly. to see a teita fly in steep hills on a blustery day is one of the highlights of my life. the males fly at about 200grams(same weight as a female merlin but a head shorter and much wider than the merlin). the females are around 340 grams. here are some pics:
tiercel tieta, adult
http://photos.imageevent.com/teita/hawkinsafari/websize/teitas%20040.jpg
tiercel teita, adult male
http://photos.imageevent.com/teita/hawkinsafari/websize/teitas%20043.jpg
tiercel teita/barbary, adult
http://photos.imageevent.com/teita/hawkinsafari/websize/season%20begins%20002.jpg

[Ben C]

THATS IT................thanks for that. That is very interesting reading.

[Barbary Boy]

i have flown and bred a few of them as well as a hybrid tiercel (teita/barbary). the are wonderful birds that almost always wait on out of sight high. small birds are very terrified of them and are hard to get the quarry to stay in the air with them. they are very peregrine like in their behavior and vocalization and look somewhat like a peregrine when flying. i think the teita falcon has the "hardest" stoop of any bird i have seen and they have an amazing ability to control their stoop even though they are in a high speed tear drop. on a couple of occassions i witnessed the most amazing thing, the teita came stooping from a vast pitch at some sort of small bird the the little bird flew fast and low accross the grassy field and went up under my truck to escape just as my teita caught up to it. the teita , still in a teardrop stoop zipped right under my truck and threw up out the other side. a few guys were with me and were as amazed as i was. on another occasion the teita did exactly the same move only passed under the truck form front to back! just about as cool as anything i have seen. teitasa are however, specialists and like to fly in the hills--the windier it is the better they fly. to see a teita fly in steep hills on a blustery day is one of the highlights of my life. the males fly at about 200grams(same weight as a female merlin but a head shorter and much wider than the merlin). the females are around 340 grams. here are some pics:
tiercel tieta, adult
http://photos.imageevent.com/teita/hawkinsafari/websize/teitas%20040.jpg
tiercel teita, adult male
http://photos.imageevent.com/teita/hawkinsafari/websize/teitas%20043.jpg
tiercel teita/barbary, adult
http://photos.imageevent.com/teita/hawkinsafari/websize/season%20begins%20002.jpg
do you still breed them? and if so are they available for export to the uk? i darn't ask what thier worth ??

[Ben C]

still waiting on that PM...............:supz::lol:

[Hatchero]

still waiting on that PM...............:supz::lol:

i am afraid that there are only two people breeding teitas that i know of and one of those has yet to make any. Jim weaver breeds them but he has a big long list (he does not sell birds). Dennis Grisco has a number of pairs but it will be a while before he let any go (assuming he is able to breed some). there is no good way that i know of to get in touch with either one of these guys. sorry i can't be of more help
Jim

[Ben C]

Jim.

No problem I appreciate all your help and information.....thanks again.

[Raptoria]

Jim,
If posible, please tell us more about this unique and fascinating little missil!

B.R.

Carlos.

[Hatchero]

Jim,
If posible, please tell us more about this unique and fascinating little missil!

B.R.

Carlos.

being a small falcon nut i am kind of biased in these matters but to see one is to want one--want one bad. they are unbelievably compact and are built like a little muscle man. as a comparison, consider this, a male teita weighs about exactly the same as a female merlin (200grams or so). when they stand side by side the top of the teitas head is about the neck of the merlin. the teita is massively wider accross the chest with a huge pectoral musculature, the beak of the teita is much heavier and much wider at the cere than the merlin. the tarsus of the teita is almost half again bigger in diameter than the merlin, the toes are about the same length but the toes on the teita are much thicker. of course a huge difference is the wings and tail. the moulted deck feather from adult male teita is about the length of my thumb and the primaries extend well beyond the tail. the feathers are very hard and stiff giving them a sort of bullet proof look. it is a real surprise when you first hear the courtship of teitas because it sounds just like peregrines and you have to wonder how that little tiercel makes THAT noise. the teita is remarkably resistant to cold weather much more so than my barbary falcon was, in fact i really did not have any days i did not fly due to cold. the tiercel will take birds up to the size of morning doves my females managed bagged chucker partridge without too much trouble. They tend to wait on too high most of the time(in a practicle sort of way) and usually you flush for a bird you do not see in the sky. unfortunatly it is hard to find birds that will stay in the air with them--even horned larks are too terrified to stay in the air with them so quarry is the big problem. they are at their very best in mountains and canyons and are spectacular to watch fly over cliffs and steep terrain on a windy day--they will follow at great height even on very windy days, stooping on any small bird that gets up. i would regularly fly my teitas in wind that i would not even dream of flying my gyrfalcons or peregrines in--they are the masters of wind. i could go on and on but i have to go eat some dinner before my wife gets mad. thats all for now

jim

[FredrickFogg]

being a small falcon nut i am kind of biased in these matters but to see one is to want one--want one bad. they are unbelievably compact and are built like a little muscle man. as a comparison, consider this, a male teita weighs about exactly the same as a female merlin (200grams or so). when they stand side by side the top of the teitas head is about the neck of the merlin. the teita is massively wider accross the chest with a huge pectoral musculature, the beak of the teita is much heavier and much wider at the cere than the merlin. the tarsus of the teita is almost half again bigger in diameter than the merlin, the toes are about the same length but the toes on the teita are much thicker. of course a huge difference is the wings and tail. the moulted deck feather from adult male teita is about the length of my thumb and the primaries extend well beyond the tail. the feathers are very hard and stiff giving them a sort of bullet proof look. it is a real surprise when you first hear the courtship of teitas because it sounds just like peregrines and you have to wonder how that little tiercel makes THAT noise. the teita is remarkably resistant to cold weather much more so than my barbary falcon was, in fact i really did not have any days i did not fly due to cold. the tiercel will take birds up to the size of morning doves my females managed bagged chucker partridge without too much trouble. They tend to wait on too high most of the time(in a practicle sort of way) and usually you flush for a bird you do not see in the sky. unfortunatly it is hard to find birds that will stay in the air with them--even horned larks are too terrified to stay in the air with them so quarry is the big problem. they are at their very best in mountains and canyons and are spectacular to watch fly over cliffs and steep terrain on a windy day--they will follow at great height even on very windy days, stooping on any small bird that gets up. i would regularly fly my teitas in wind that i would not even dream of flying my gyrfalcons or peregrines in--they are the masters of wind. i could go on and on but i have to go eat some dinner before my wife gets mad. thats all for now

jim

Jim,

Sounds like the teita falcon would be better suited for us East Coast guys and our hilly small fields and flushing small birds and doves than a merlin. Such a shame they are near impossible to get!

Fred

[Pete J.]

Related posts...
http://www.falconryforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=41155&highlight=Taita+Falcons&page=6 #32 #56, #59
And yes Taita Falcon and Teita Falcon are the same bird, the spelling differs for some reason but they are named after the Teita Hills in Africa where they were first found (?). I think I remember something about their first official scientific description was not until 1956 or thereabouts, so they are only known to the western world since that time, a relative newcomer in the vast scheme of things.

[Raptoria]

Jim,
Its always a DREAM to hear those nice stories you had share about taitas, and I agree with you, to watch a wild taita into its natural enviroment coud be the MOST exiting experience! those creatures are extreme in every way!

Thanks again!

Carlos.

[Ben C]

I have asked my connections too......

I would love one but they need to be left alone...far to delicate for a clumsy fool such as myself.

[Raptoria]

Its funny to see, that VERY few are intrested on this type of exclusive and very rare falcons.
Coud be great (more than a dream)to stablish a good colony of them, with the purpose of secure the future of this lovely specie.

Carlos.

[Sprout]

Saw them in Africa. If they come to the UK you are second on the list Ben - I'm FIRST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Hatchero]

Its funny to see, that VERY few are intrested on this type of exclusive and very rare falcons.
Coud be great (more than a dream)to stablish a good colony of them, with the purpose of secure the future of this lovely specie.

Carlos.

it's a good idea but there is a problem. first problem is that a pair will usually only lay two eggs sometimes three per season, it seems that 2 young per pair is the norm. teitas do not recycle usually (oddly, they do not recycle in the wild either) so one clutch per year. Some imprint females can be extended but few imprints end up laying at all. imprint teitas seem to be very difficult to transfer to a new mews or new owner. i don't know of any imprints that were transfered to new owners that produced. usually takes three years before a pair produces(about the same as a peregrine). so there is no way to dramaticly increase numbers other than to increase the number of pairs. be advised that malaria is rapidly fatal to teitas, it seems they have no immunity--this has killed quite a few of them, so chambers must be mosquito proof. thats the deal.
jim

[Bird_Dog]

I have a friend that has a imprint tercel. He loaned it out, but it didn't copulate. It has never been flown it because its to valuable to lose - so I'm told. Wish he would fly it, tho. Probably would make a great bird for meadow larks and such.

-- Bird_Dog

[Raptoria]

Jim,
It seems that besides your experience flying them, you have ALOT of data about this specie! Thanks for sharing! VERY intresting!!!
I remember you wrote about the way they can control high winds, and that reminds me about a female bat falcon I flew some 10 years ago.With very strong winds, she use to fly perfectly, with no problem at all.
After taitas, you switch to bat falcons?
Had you notice any similarities betwen them? I mean, flying style, stoop, wingloading..... surely taitas are much more solid build, shorter tails, shorter tarsus, but bats are chuncky too, with very stiff plumage, being very aerial and fast.

Carlos.

[Raptoria]

Carlos.

[Pete J.]

So much mis-information comes in about this species.
The female imprint that I have, was transferred to me when she was 9 years old. She was said to never extend and never recycle. Uh huh..sure. She did both for years afterward. Diet appears to be the problem with the lack of recycling and extending as far as I can tell. She is now 16, is not in a mosquito-proof chamber (and believe me, we do get mosquitos and malaria here..just not like the huge numbers they can get further north or east). I also have a 7 year old tiercel imprint, same setup. I have yet to have any Teita die on me for any reason. Yet, they send them out to others and they die in days, weeks, but usually within a year. I do not understand why some people cannot seem to keep them alive?
And that one tiercel that was loaned out and didn't copulate? He was with me, but upon questioning the original owner, it was unclear if the bird was really imprinted. The Peregrine types tend to need to be pulled and imprinted earlier than most of the other falcons. He could not tell me the age the bird was originally acquired..all he could tell me was that 'he was a little bitty guy'. Well, they are little bitty guys...so how little bitty was he? Apparently not young enough, as he would court and scrape, but then he would attack me when it came time for him to begin trying to copulate. He also would definitely recognize and court his own kind if I happened to walk by his chamber with the imprint female. I had another one like that that I got that was a bit older and I suspect the same thing...it wasn't as hard imprinted as it probably needs to be. My donoring tiercel was very young when I got him, probably 9 days old to maybe 12 days. And he has never been aggressive in the manner these other two were.
As for flying them....while you would hope they would be able to do meadowlarks and such...which are not legal quarry by the way...this species will likely not be interested in such prey as it is far to close to the ground for their liking. They seem to prefer birds flying at mid-altitudes (over a hundred feet above the ground) as it is their nature to pluck birds from the air and go right back to the cliff. If they knock it down and are not able to secure it before it hits the ground, they will leave it there as they are far too vulnerable on the ground and they know it. Even when you train them to get over this sort of thing, they seem to revert very quickly to their instinctive ways and with good reason. Down with quarry they draw fire from many raptor species...Harriers in particular, but also Prairie Falcons and Peregrines seem to watch them closely because their wing-beat is quite enticing to another hungry raptor. Getting them fit enough to hold their own is very time consuming and demanding, and requires very good quality food to make their engines run effectively and powerfully. Good quality coturnix quail is the MINIMUM that they can function on, and actually pigeon, dove or small passerines are much more desirable and in this way they resemble the needs of Merlins.
Just voicing my experience here on this species which is apparently different from others.
Pete J.

[Hatchero]

So much mis-information comes in about this species.
The female imprint that I have, was transferred to me when she was 9 years old. She was said to never extend and never recycle. Uh huh..sure. She did both for years afterward. Diet appears to be the problem with the lack of recycling and extending as far as I can tell. She is now 16, is not in a mosquito-proof chamber (and believe me, we do get mosquitos and malaria here..just not like the huge numbers they can get further north or east). I also have a 7 year old tiercel imprint, same setup. I have yet to have any Teita die on me for any reason. Yet, they send them out to others and they die in days, weeks, but usually within a year. I do not understand why some people cannot seem to keep them alive?
And that one tiercel that was loaned out and didn't copulate? He was with me, but upon questioning the original owner, it was unclear if the bird was really imprinted. The Peregrine types tend to need to be pulled and imprinted earlier than most of the other falcons. He could not tell me the age the bird was originally acquired..all he could tell me was that 'he was a little bitty guy'. Well, they are little bitty guys...so how little bitty was he? Apparently not young enough, as he would court and scrape, but then he would attack me when it came time for him to begin trying to copulate. He also would definitely recognize and court his own kind if I happened to walk by his chamber with the imprint female. I had another one like that that I got that was a bit older and I suspect the same thing...it wasn't as hard imprinted as it probably needs to be. My donoring tiercel was very young when I got him, probably 9 days old to maybe 12 days. And he has never been aggressive in the manner these other two were.
As for flying them....while you would hope they would be able to do meadowlarks and such...which are not legal quarry by the way...this species will likely not be interested in such prey as it is far to close to the ground for their liking. They seem to prefer birds flying at mid-altitudes (over a hundred feet above the ground) as it is their nature to pluck birds from the air and go right back to the cliff. If they knock it down and are not able to secure it before it hits the ground, they will leave it there as they are far too vulnerable on the ground and they know it. Even when you train them to get over this sort of thing, they seem to revert very quickly to their instinctive ways and with good reason. Down with quarry they draw fire from many raptor species...Harriers in particular, but also Prairie Falcons and Peregrines seem to watch them closely because their wing-beat is quite enticing to another hungry raptor. Getting them fit enough to hold their own is very time consuming and demanding, and requires very good quality food to make their engines run effectively and powerfully. Good quality coturnix quail is the MINIMUM that they can function on, and actually pigeon, dove or small passerines are much more desirable and in this way they resemble the needs of Merlins.
Just voicing my experience here on this species which is apparently different from others.
Pete J.

i will be sure to tell weaver the reason his birds don't ever recycle is because he does not feed a good diet. but since my breeding birds were feed on fresh trapped english sparrows and such i am perplexed my mine did not recycle--diet? weaver also says his imprints will usually breed naturaly as well. go figure. you are right about liking quarry that is flying--the higher the better. the difficulty with species as a game hawk is finding a suitable quarry.
Jim

[BarbaryHawking06]

i will be sure to tell weaver the reason his birds don't ever recycle is because he does not feed a good diet. but since my breeding birds were feed on fresh trapped english sparrows and such i am perplexed my mine did not recycle--diet? weaver also says his imprints will usually breed naturaly as well. go figure. you are right about liking quarry that is flying--the higher the better. the difficulty with species as a game hawk is finding a suitable quarry.
Jim

I am no native English speaker so I don't know if I use the scientifically correct words to spell the following out. An imprint is as far as I know a sexually to humans imprinted falcon, raised in total isolation to make sure that they don't see any other falcon in the imprinting period, they will not mate with other falcons as they think they are humans, right? A dual imprint is either creche reared or partly reared by its parents so they would if done correctly be either possible to act like imprints or be paired up naturally. So probably you are talking about dual imprints. And if you feed such quality feed why looks the tiercel teita like being starved to death??? The hybrid looks splendid, I just wondered about the pure bred.

[Pete J.]

i will be sure to tell weaver the reason his birds don't ever recycle is because he does not feed a good diet. but since my breeding birds were feed on fresh trapped english sparrows and such i am perplexed my mine did not recycle--diet? weaver also says his imprints will usually breed naturaly as well. go figure. you are right about liking quarry that is flying--the higher the better. the difficulty with species as a game hawk is finding a suitable quarry.
Jim
Weaver and I discussed his diet and it was after he upgraded to feeding more collared doves that his production increased significantly. As far as getting them to recycle? I haven't a clue, except that this female did for many seasons...producing 9 eggs a year which is more of what would be expected out of falcon of most any species. Although I do note that in the wild they are very low producers. Part of this may be tied to the fact that they lay a relatively large egg for their size and their feathers are very short, as is their insulation, so covering much more than two eggs adequately is out of the question.
The first older (3 years old) tiercel he gave me that was 'imprinted' but yet would attack me when it came to copulation time, eventually after several years of getting chewed on I eventually shipped him up to Idaho to be with a female and they got along great from the get go. A true hard imprint would not get along that easily or quickly. You and I both know that normally 'human imprinted' falcons generally detest others of their kind, at least initially. But also, as I have suspected for many years...human imprinting is generally only a modification that is really only successful if you keep it at. Once a bird is sort of ignored and placed in a setting where it sees it's own kind more than it sees you, the imprinting on the human tends to begin to slip gradually and eventually they seem to fall back on the hard-wired understanding of what they really are. Of course this process must be done carefully, particularly with females as they can and will kill mates along the way if they aren't well observed to be responding appropriately.
As far as 'dual' imprinting is concerned, well, it depends a great deal on the species in question. I have a couple of Barbary X Teitas and both were somehow under modified conditions. One was hard imprinted but then at a young age (20 or so days) was then reared with a Gyr X Barbary tiercel in hopes of flying them in a cast. After a year and half she was placed with me, and while she does lay, she has never 'stood' for cooperative insemination. After several years and after being tied to perch during the breeding season I feel her gradually changing and it is likely that she might finally begin allowing insemination this year. The other bird was one that I reared myself from day one. But I made a similar mistake in that he spend considerable time with a Barbary X Merlin tiercel through the tame hack process. He has been quite courty all along, but refused to attempt to copulate (showing fear reaction instead of getting on with it). Finally, after two years of being tied to shelf and limiting his access to other falcons visually, he seems to be coming around. I guess the point is, we wish it was all that easy to define what makes birds be this way or that. But for many birds it just seems to be more complicated than we would like.
Again, this is just my experience. I certainly do not mean to cast any doubt on the knowledge or experience of others. But when someone tells me something that I feel is just sort of out of the normal situation for all others of their genera, I tend to have to explore why that situation is? The biologist in me tends to want to investigate the mechanism of things that just sound odd! Such things as the Peruvian Aplos in this country tend to lay two eggs at a time, but repeatedly recycle (sometimes three times) while their northern subspecies tends to produce up to four at a time, and an imprint falcon tended to 'lay like chicken' producing many eggs in a row. Why? I haven't a clue?

[Pete J.]

These are not 'her' eggs, they're merlin eggs given to her last season since she was still broody but is no longer able to produce eggs due to age. Her own eggs would be at least a third larger and much heavier mottled.
http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff174/petej1956/2004Teitafalconweggs1.jpg

[Falcun]

So much mis-information comes in about this species.
The female imprint that I have, was transferred to me when she was 9 years old. She was said to never extend and never recycle. Uh huh..sure. She did both for years afterward. Diet appears to be the problem with the lack of recycling and extending as far as I can tell. She is now 16, is not in a mosquito-proof chamber (and believe me, we do get mosquitos and malaria here..just not like the huge numbers they can get further north or east). I also have a 7 year old tiercel imprint, same setup. I have yet to have any Teita die on me for any reason. Yet, they send them out to others and they die in days, weeks, but usually within a year. I do not understand why some people cannot seem to keep them alive?
And that one tiercel that was loaned out and didn't copulate? He was with me, but upon questioning the original owner, it was unclear if the bird was really imprinted. The Peregrine types tend to need to be pulled and imprinted earlier than most of the other falcons. He could not tell me the age the bird was originally acquired..all he could tell me was that 'he was a little bitty guy'. Well, they are little bitty guys...so how little bitty was he? Apparently not young enough, as he would court and scrape, but then he would attack me when it came time for him to begin trying to copulate. He also would definitely recognize and court his own kind if I happened to walk by his chamber with the imprint female. I had another one like that that I got that was a bit older and I suspect the same thing...it wasn't as hard imprinted as it probably needs to be. My donoring tiercel was very young when I got him, probably 9 days old to maybe 12 days. And he has never been aggressive in the manner these other two were.
As for flying them....while you would hope they would be able to do meadowlarks and such...which are not legal quarry by the way...this species will likely not be interested in such prey as it is far to close to the ground for their liking. They seem to prefer birds flying at mid-altitudes (over a hundred feet above the ground) as it is their nature to pluck birds from the air and go right back to the cliff. If they knock it down and are not able to secure it before it hits the ground, they will leave it there as they are far too vulnerable on the ground and they know it. Even when you train them to get over this sort of thing, they seem to revert very quickly to their instinctive ways and with good reason. Down with quarry they draw fire from many raptor species...Harriers in particular, but also Prairie Falcons and Peregrines seem to watch them closely because their wing-beat is quite enticing to another hungry raptor. Getting them fit enough to hold their own is very time consuming and demanding, and requires very good quality food to make their engines run effectively and powerfully. Good quality coturnix quail is the MINIMUM that they can function on, and actually pigeon, dove or small passerines are much more desirable and in this way they resemble the needs of Merlins.
Just voicing my experience here on this species which is apparently different from others.
Pete J.

If I get the concept right. They are great falcons to see flying but are more or less not that suitable for falconry. Due to the fact that they dont like to consume their quarry on the ground and prefare to find a much safer place. They will easily get lost or else you need to take climbing gear with you when out hawking.


Do their hybrids have the same tendency

Philip

[Hatchero]

i can't speak from a lot of experience having only flown one hybrid(barbary/teita) for three seasons. i would say that the hybrid i had did have the same issue with quarry selection and lack of ground savy though not as pronounced as the the pure teita. he flew well and was quite aggressive for quarry but setting up the situation for success was pretty difficult. he did catch a few huns however and quite a number of doves over his career with me.
Jim

[Pete J.]

If I get the concept right. They are great falcons to see flying but are more or less not that suitable for falconry. Due to the fact that they dont like to consume their quarry on the ground and prefare to find a much safer place. They will easily get lost or else you need to take climbing gear with you when out hawking.


Do their hybrids have the same tendency

Philip
There was significant improvement overall in both the Barbary X Teita and the Anatum X Teita. Both flew high (from either parent), hit hard (more from the Teita side I believe), interest in game flushed from the ground (from Barbary or anatum side) much improved with no more interest in carrying to safer ground than either of those two parental types (over-ride the Teita issues), taking duck, dove and quail and small birds (anatum X teita took homers as well).

[Falcun]

Thanks for your replies. What about taita x merlin. My interest are the smallest possible falcons

Philip

[Bird_Dog]

The tercel I'm referring to was one of Weaver's. It may have been the only survivor out of the clutch. To my knowledge of how it was reared is that it was picked up at 4 days/old. I'll try to get him to work with it... maybe it will do something this year. I didn't know that meadow larks are illegal, really.... I'll have to scold my gyr x peregrine for chasing them. He likes to snack on them every once in a while. Thanks for the info.

-- Bird_Dog

[EagleMan6905]

Jim ,
trying to hide from the eagle list.......shoooo don't tell anyone I'm hear OK.
I went hawking with Paul and saw the male he had from you, outstanding little falcon. We were hawking "starlings" me with my perlins and Paul with the Teita falcon not only fun to watch but neat looking as well. I must admit it was almost as fun to see Paul runing around in the field clapping his hands, jumping and yelling trying to flush birds for the falcon, should have taken some photo's.
Joe

[EagleMan6905]

The tercel I'm referring to was one of Weaver's. It may have been the only survivor out of the clutch. To my knowledge of how it was reared is that it was picked up at 4 days/old. I'll try to get him to work with it... maybe it will do something this year. I didn't know that meadow larks are illegal, really.... I'll have to scold my gyr x peregrine for chasing them. He likes to snack on them every once in a while. Thanks for the info.

-- Bird_Dog
Those are not meadow larks they are yellow bellied starlings, a rare color mutation of the dreaded European starling.
joe

[Hatchero]

Jim ,
trying to hide from the eagle list.......shoooo don't tell anyone I'm hear OK.
I went hawking with Paul and saw the male he had from you, outstanding little falcon. We were hawking "starlings" me with my perlins and Paul with the Teita falcon not only fun to watch but neat looking as well. I must admit it was almost as fun to see Paul runing around in the field clapping his hands, jumping and yelling trying to flush birds for the falcon, should have taken some photo's.
Joe

it sounds so undignified, imagine that. did you get to see him stone one of the "starlings"? certainly a different deal than the perlins. hows the hawkin over your way? see any mud:rolleyes:
jim

[Pete J.]

Thanks for your replies. What about taita x merlin. My interest are the smallest possible falcons

Philip
Haven't made one just yet, but possibly this year. Timing is difficult as the Teita is wanted to start donoring now and the Merlins don't typically lay until May, when he'll be long done. It's not impossible, it just requires adjustments.

[Raptoria]

But..............what about the bat falcon?

Any experience or interest on them?

More stories and photos of those fascinating little taitas!

Carlos.

[Hatchero]

But..............what about the bat falcon?

Any experience or interest on them?

More stories and photos of those fascinating little taitas!

Carlos.
Carlos,\
i am not sure how to respond to this one. i should start by saying that i had all my BFs before i had my teitas, so there is that perspective. when i saw my first BF is thought "this has got to be the ultimate small falcon" .as it turned out i was working for the pfund at that time and we had some birds that had recently come from south america. i spent a bunch of time doing observations on these birds and found some problems in the pairing which we adjusted. we soon had two pairs making babies. we had some good productivity so i took a female and flew it after a long latency in the chamber with the adults. this female did ok. i tried some imprints, some males and various possible combinations. at the same time some if my friends were getting some of these birds and the results were pretty dismal. for what ever reason these birds never realy lived up to the promise. it might be the climate or the lack of suitable quarry or i don't know what but after really putting in the effort and having less than great results i gave up and gave away my Bfs. it is sort of like love at first sight all you see is the beauty and the possibilities, it takes a while before you see the over all reality rather than the reality you imagined. in comparison to the teita there is no comparison. the bat falcon is very fast in straight flight which the teita is not.getting the BFs to wait on is not too difficult but the BFs are a little whimpy in the sense that they like bugs too much and must be fairly sharp if you want them to really put out the effort for bird type quarry, i think they would rather do a direct pursuit type of attack if left to their own devices. i think they are probably better suited to falconry in tropical climates. one parting comment is that BFs are remarkably different from other falcons in a number of ways, both behaviorally and morphologically. it really takes some time to figure out some of the weird quirky parts of the BF package. I did do some tame hacking with an imprint male i had off the top of an abandoned rock quarry that had a colony of cliff swallows nesting on it--that was fun.
jim

[Raptoria]

In the past I flew a pair of imprinted females BFs, and both was very fast in horizontal flight.One of them was much more prone to wait on at high pitches, stooping very hard to bagged turtle doves.They dont carry at all, and first year birds was much more erratic.As you mention, the bug stuff was a problem, but molted birds use to be much more focused on me, waiting on much better, and waiting for a slip.
Last season, a friend of mine was flying an imprinted tiercel, (direct flights from the fist), and that tiercel as a first year bird was good on small birds. It seems they dont have ANY trouble killing all type of bagged quarry, and as you I had observe that to make them into business, the weight must be reduced drastically.Surely theyre extremely pretty, but seems, isnt that easy to kill with them.I had watch them in the wild and they really know how to catch fast birds, the cover lots of terrain behind swallows, swifts, and similar fast birds, but they never go to ground for any kind of quarry. Warmer latitudes, can make them perform much more better, the problem still being the proper quarry, the proper terrain, plus more bugs due to humidity, so isnt a ¡n easy treat to hawk with them in a regular basis.I had seen them controling strong winds very easy, and they can spend very long periods on the wing.
Actually some guys from Peru, are obtaining some results with imprinted females, but surely far from the digits some one coud make with an aplomado.
I really dont understand the wingloading, aerial bird trait.Taitas,BFs,and similars have a heavy wing loading, stiff plumage, and short tails, what makes them stoop fast and hard.
A month ago, I start moulting a first year aplomado breeded and trained by me.For my surprise, this little tiercel show me that not always a heavy wingloaded compact bird, its the rule for a waiting on flights to small birds.This little tiercel, takes (always )very high pitches,(600-800 ft)circling around above me perfectly for very prolonged periods of time.He always stoop totally folded, very hard and fast being very efficient to doves.I had witness that he controls very strong winds at good heights, much more better than some of my friends peregrines!
In the end it seems that isnt easy to hawk with taitas or bats.coud be a fact of the hunting cone trait?
Barbaries, have closer proportions to taitas, but 100 times much more wider hunting cones, and every bodie knows how efficient and agressive toward quarry theyre as falconry birds.

Carlos.

[EagleMan6905]

it sounds so undignified, imagine that. did you get to see him stone one of the "starlings"? certainly a different deal than the perlins. hows the hawkin over your way? see any mud:rolleyes:
jim

Yes it is but eagle people are well let's just say different. (includes myself)
Yes I saw him fly many times, stoned a few'
Mud what's that???
Well I have shut down my falcon's ...it's just a little sloppy around here at the moment. Hoping to take the eagle into ID tomorrow nothing solid yet waiting for a phone call you know how that goes...
Joe

[Ben Wallace]

In the past I flew a pair of imprinted females BFs, and both was very fast in horizontal flight.One of them was much more prone to wait on at high pitches, stooping very hard to bagged turtle doves.They dont carry at all, and first year birds was much more erratic.As you mention, the bug stuff was a problem, but molted birds use to be much more focused on me, waiting on much better, and waiting for a slip.
Last season, a friend of mine was flying an imprinted tiercel, (direct flights from the fist), and that tiercel as a first year bird was good on small birds. It seems they dont have ANY trouble killing all type of bagged quarry, and as you I had observe that to make them into business, the weight must be reduced drastically.Surely theyre extremely pretty, but seems, isnt that easy to kill with them.I had watch them in the wild and they really know how to catch fast birds, the cover lots of terrain behind swallows, swifts, and similar fast birds, but they never go to ground for any kind of quarry. Warmer latitudes, can make them perform much more better, the problem still being the proper quarry, the proper terrain, plus more bugs due to humidity, so isnt a ¡n easy treat to hawk with them in a regular basis.I had seen them controling strong winds very easy, and they can spend very long periods on the wing.
Actually some guys from Peru, are obtaining some results with imprinted females, but surely far from the digits some one coud make with an aplomado.
I really dont understand the wingloading, aerial bird trait.Taitas,BFs,and similars have a heavy wing loading, stiff plumage, and short tails, what makes them stoop fast and hard.
A month ago, I start moulting a first year aplomado breeded and trained by me.For my surprise, this little tiercel show me that not always a heavy wingloaded compact bird, its the rule for a waiting on flights to small birds.This little tiercel, takes (always )very high pitches,(600-800 ft)circling around above me perfectly for very prolonged periods of time.He always stoop totally folded, very hard and fast being very efficient to doves.I had witness that he controls very strong winds at good heights, much more better than some of my friends peregrines!
In the end it seems that isnt easy to hawk with taitas or bats.coud be a fact of the hunting cone trait?
Barbaries, have closer proportions to taitas, but 100 times much more wider hunting cones, and every bodie knows how efficient and agressive toward quarry theyre as falconry birds.

Carlos.

Carlos,.....very nice insight. I would love to hear more about falconry in Mexico. Are there many clubs?? That high flying aplo, sounds amazing,....tell me did he bind or strike for the finish?? Looking forward to hearing from you.

Sincerely,
Ben Wallace
www.shaheensolutions.com

[Raptoria]

Ben,
We have some falconry clubs, but many falconers.The major part use to fly passage HHs, some passage anatums, few ones prefer aplomados, and from time to time, you see a merlin, a coop or a BF, on a falconer glove.

The aplo I breed and train, is a very small bird.Hes a 184 gms, that loves to fly VERY high.Some times Im very impressed on the pitches he use to take, but he had learn and enjoy those heights to produce a kill. hes focused on turtle doves, and mourning doves.The way he use to climb make things look easy.He climbs fast, always focused, and can wait on for 40-60 minutes, always above me. He had learn to stoop hard, and some flights end on a short (100 -150mts) tail chasse, but most of the times, those little doves are killed on the initial stoop.As I mention before, the way he controls strong winds is very impresive.Hes alway flying up wind taking absolutely control of the situation.

Carlos.

[Taita]

Weaver and I discussed his diet and it was after he upgraded to feeding more collared doves that his production increased significantly. As far as getting them to recycle? I haven't a clue, except that this female did for many seasons...producing 9 eggs a year which is more of what would be expected out of falcon of most any species. Although I do note that in the wild they are very low producers. Part of this may be tied to the fact that they lay a relatively large egg for their size and their feathers are very short, as is their insulation, so covering much more than two eggs adequately is out of the question.
The first older (3 years old) tiercel he gave me that was 'imprinted' but yet would attack me when it came to copulation time, eventually after several years of getting chewed on I eventually shipped him up to Idaho to be with a female and they got along great from the get go. A true hard imprint would not get along that easily or quickly. You and I both know that normally 'human imprinted' falcons generally detest others of their kind, at least initially. But also, as I have suspected for many years...human imprinting is generally only a modification that is really only successful if you keep it at. Once a bird is sort of ignored and placed in a setting where it sees it's own kind more than it sees you, the imprinting on the human tends to begin to slip gradually and eventually they seem to fall back on the hard-wired understanding of what they really are. Of course this process must be done carefully, particularly with females as they can and will kill mates along the way if they aren't well observed to be responding appropriately.
As far as 'dual' imprinting is concerned, well, it depends a great deal on the species in question. I have a couple of Barbary X Teitas and both were somehow under modified conditions. One was hard imprinted but then at a young age (20 or so days) was then reared with a Gyr X Barbary tiercel in hopes of flying them in a cast. After a year and half she was placed with me, and while she does lay, she has never 'stood' for cooperative insemination. After several years and after being tied to perch during the breeding season I feel her gradually changing and it is likely that she might finally begin allowing insemination this year. The other bird was one that I reared myself from day one. But I made a similar mistake in that he spend considerable time with a Barbary X Merlin tiercel through the tame hack process. He has been quite courty all along, but refused to attempt to copulate (showing fear reaction instead of getting on with it). Finally, after two years of being tied to shelf and limiting his access to other falcons visually, he seems to be coming around. I guess the point is, we wish it was all that easy to define what makes birds be this way or that. But for many birds it just seems to be more complicated than we would like.
Again, this is just my experience. I certainly do not mean to cast any doubt on the knowledge or experience of others. But when someone tells me something that I feel is just sort of out of the normal situation for all others of their genera, I tend to have to explore why that situation is? The biologist in me tends to want to investigate the mechanism of things that just sound odd! Such things as the Peruvian Aplos in this country tend to lay two eggs at a time, but repeatedly recycle (sometimes three times) while their northern subspecies tends to produce up to four at a time, and an imprint falcon tended to 'lay like chicken' producing many eggs in a row. Why? I haven't a clue?

Hi Pete

Just been re-reading this thread. Starting to prepare for this breeding season. I am natural breeding my pair of taitas. Also feeding mostly dove, however found that it is important to cut them into smaller pieces. Basically so that the tiercel can carry and food pass. When they get going with courtship sometimes feeding 3 times daily to encourage food passing. Seems to have made the difference, though I can't really account for them missing a season (2006) between two fertile clutches (2005 & 2007). Falcon laid 06 but all infertile. Incidently this falcon routinely lays a 3 egg clutch and her first was a clutch 4. Is there any chance that you can calculate fresh egg weight as a percentage of body weight for your falcon that recycles? My breeding falcon is a particularly large indiv. weighing out at just under 400g. Seriously considering recycling her this year to try up production. Any thoughts on timing removal of eggs?

Neil

Last year's crop 2 x tiercels

[Taita]

So much mis-information comes in about this species.
The female imprint that I have, was transferred to me when she was 9 years old. She was said to never extend and never recycle. Uh huh..sure. She did both for years afterward. Diet appears to be the problem with the lack of recycling and extending as far as I can tell. She is now 16, is not in a mosquito-proof chamber (and believe me, we do get mosquitos and malaria here..just not like the huge numbers they can get further north or east). I also have a 7 year old tiercel imprint, same setup. I have yet to have any Teita die on me for any reason. Yet, they send them out to others and they die in days, weeks, but usually within a year. I do not understand why some people cannot seem to keep them alive?
And that one tiercel that was loaned out and didn't copulate? He was with me, but upon questioning the original owner, it was unclear if the bird was really imprinted. The Peregrine types tend to need to be pulled and imprinted earlier than most of the other falcons. He could not tell me the age the bird was originally acquired..all he could tell me was that 'he was a little bitty guy'. Well, they are little bitty guys...so how little bitty was he? Apparently not young enough, as he would court and scrape, but then he would attack me when it came time for him to begin trying to copulate. He also would definitely recognize and court his own kind if I happened to walk by his chamber with the imprint female. I had another one like that that I got that was a bit older and I suspect the same thing...it wasn't as hard imprinted as it probably needs to be. My donoring tiercel was very young when I got him, probably 9 days old to maybe 12 days. And he has never been aggressive in the manner these other two were.
As for flying them....while you would hope they would be able to do meadowlarks and such...which are not legal quarry by the way...this species will likely not be interested in such prey as it is far to close to the ground for their liking. They seem to prefer birds flying at mid-altitudes (over a hundred feet above the ground) as it is their nature to pluck birds from the air and go right back to the cliff. If they knock it down and are not able to secure it before it hits the ground, they will leave it there as they are far too vulnerable on the ground and they know it. Even when you train them to get over this sort of thing, they seem to revert very quickly to their instinctive ways and with good reason. Down with quarry they draw fire from many raptor species...Harriers in particular, but also Prairie Falcons and Peregrines seem to watch them closely because their wing-beat is quite enticing to another hungry raptor. Getting them fit enough to hold their own is very time consuming and demanding, and requires very good quality food to make their engines run effectively and powerfully. Good quality coturnix quail is the MINIMUM that they can function on, and actually pigeon, dove or small passerines are much more desirable and in this way they resemble the needs of Merlins.
Just voicing my experience here on this species which is apparently different from others.
Pete J.

Hi Pete

You indicate that teitas draw fire from other raptors. This really caught my attention. Which ones in particular? Ron Hartley recovered a juv. falcon that had been caught by Tawny Eagle. Our guess is that being inexperienced she tried to defend a kill from the tawny. She survived but never fully recovered her health. We have noticed that wild taitas abandon consistently used eyries as soon as lanners move into the neighborhood, yet seem to be able to co-exist with peregrines. The obvious question is whether there is direct competition (poss. predation) between lanners and teitas or if appearance of lanners is a symptom of environmental degradation. I believe that a lanner might pull a taita given half a chance by either taking in flight or more likely while perched. Have watched lanners hunting swifts in Harare and saw one use a technique to great effect. It pushed the swift into a wall causing it to stall out, with its lower wing loading, the lanner seemed to have the advantage of a lower stalling speed in a steep climb. As the swift began to stall it could only go one way - down. Lanner pre-empted and grabbed it with a foot as it did this. The same principle might work on a teita. A peregrine would probably only make an attempt on a teita in flight. Do you think a teita is capable of out flying a peregrine? My guess is that they wouldn't risk it but rather squash up against the cliff face and hide. My ones in the breeding pen do this in response to wild raptors, particularly eagles, flying overhead.

[Pete J.]

Hi Pete

Just been re-reading this thread. Starting to prepare for this breeding season. I am natural breeding my pair of taitas. Also feeding mostly dove, however found that it is important to cut them into smaller pieces. Basically so that the tiercel can carry and food pass. When they get going with courtship sometimes feeding 3 times daily to encourage food passing. Seems to have made the difference, though I can't really account for them missing a season (2006) between two fertile clutches (2005 & 2007). Falcon laid 06 but all infertile. Incidently this falcon routinely lays a 3 egg clutch and her first was a clutch 4. Is there any chance that you can calculate fresh egg weight as a percentage of body weight for your falcon that recycles? My breeding falcon is a particularly large indiv. weighing out at just under 400g. Seriously considering recycling her this year to try up production. Any thoughts on timing removal of eggs?

Neil

Last year's crop 2 x tiercels
Hi Neil,
Just saw this post so I'll have to do some checking. A couple of nice tiercels there by the way!:supz:
I know that just off-hand that the female imprint was around the weight of yours (hog fat or beyond) as they can get quite 'breasty' if allowed all they can eat. She probably would have flown in the lower 300's I would guess (although by the time I got her she had never been flown). I'll get the fresh egg weights that I have on file for her and pass them along. These will be quite accurate as I would pull them almost immediately and put a dummy egg in their place if it wasn't the first or second egg of the clutch. Usually I would let her lay the first, I would weigh it and then put it back, and when the second was laid I would immediately take that new one and the first one and replace it with one dummy egg. Then when she laid the next I would take that new one and weigh it, and leave a dummy, etc. until she clutched out. Then after 10 days or so after she began sitting (usually after the second egg was actually left in the nest), I would pull the clutch and she would take a day or two off before she would begin courthing again. It usually took about 12 to 20 days for the next clutch to begin. I usually wouldn't push too much on the second clutch though..maybe extend her one extra egg. So I would often end up with 9 per season on the number of eggs.
As I said, I'll get back to you on the egg weights. As for calculating egg weight for her body weight? I'm not sure what you're talking about exactly. I just weigh them and put them in the incubator and shoot for a 14-15% weight loss. I generally run the temperature of the incubator as close to 100 degrees as I can get it....so 99.5-100.0.
Pete

[Pete J.]

Hi Pete

You indicate that teitas draw fire from other raptors. This really caught my attention. Which ones in particular? Ron Hartley recovered a juv. falcon that had been caught by Tawny Eagle. Our guess is that being inexperienced she tried to defend a kill from the tawny. She survived but never fully recovered her health. We have noticed that wild taitas abandon consistently used eyries as soon as lanners move into the neighborhood, yet seem to be able to co-exist with peregrines. The obvious question is whether there is direct competition (poss. predation) between lanners and teitas or if appearance of lanners is a symptom of environmental degradation. I believe that a lanner might pull a taita given half a chance by either taking in flight or more likely while perched. Have watched lanners hunting swifts in Harare and saw one use a technique to great effect. It pushed the swift into a wall causing it to stall out, with its lower wing loading, the lanner seemed to have the advantage of a lower stalling speed in a steep climb. As the swift began to stall it could only go one way - down. Lanner pre-empted and grabbed it with a foot as it did this. The same principle might work on a teita. A peregrine would probably only make an attempt on a teita in flight. Do you think a teita is capable of out flying a peregrine? My guess is that they wouldn't risk it but rather squash up against the cliff face and hide. My ones in the breeding pen do this in response to wild raptors, particularly eagles, flying overhead.
An easy answer is this...if they have enough room (altitude) I think the Teitas can fly circles around most Peregrines simply because of the erratic way they can shift and turn at high speeds. But if they are on the ground or in tight quarters....just about anything that is determined can likely take them out. I have had a few times when I thought an oncoming Harrier might take one of the females, it was keeping up so closely on her. Quite frankly while I was flying this species I was a nervous wreck much of the time. When you're flying one of the smaller falcons on the block and everything else out there wants to eat it, it tends to make you grey pretty fast. In the winter here we have no shortage of raptors as this is where many of the northern raptors come to winter over. So they get pretty damn stacked up around here!
And yes, the do stall very easily. Heavy wingloading is not all it's cracked up to be sometimes.:roll:
Pete J

[Pete J.]

Hi Neil,
Just saw this post so I'll have to do some checking. A couple of nice tiercels there by the way!:supz:
I know that just off-hand that the female imprint was around the weight of yours (hog fat or beyond) as they can get quite 'breasty' if allowed all they can eat. She probably would have flown in the lower 300's I would guess (although by the time I got her she had never been flown). I'll get the fresh egg weights that I have on file for her and pass them along. These will be quite accurate as I would pull them almost immediately and put a dummy egg in their place if it wasn't the first or second egg of the clutch. Usually I would let her lay the first, I would weigh it and then put it back, and when the second was laid I would immediately take that new one and the first one and replace it with one dummy egg. Then when she laid the next I would take that new one and weigh it, and leave a dummy, etc. until she clutched out. Then after 10 days or so after she began sitting (usually after the second egg was actually left in the nest), I would pull the clutch and she would take a day or two off before she would begin courthing again. It usually took about 12 to 20 days for the next clutch to begin. I usually wouldn't push too much on the second clutch though..maybe extend her one extra egg. So I would often end up with 9 per season on the number of eggs.
As I said, I'll get back to you on the egg weights. As for calculating egg weight for her body weight? I'm not sure what you're talking about exactly. I just weigh them and put them in the incubator and shoot for a 14-15% weight loss. I generally run the temperature of the incubator as close to 100 degrees as I can get it....so 99.5-100.0.
Pete
Hi again Neil,
I couldn't find much for fresh egg weights as she has been laid out for a few years now and much of that information was on an old computer. I have three fresh egg weights from her last season though. First, second and third egg were 27.1, 26.4, 25.6.
Getting back to your question about the calculation of fresh egg weight, am I to assume that you are trying to get at what the initial fresh egg weight was at the time she laid it and now that she has been sitting on it for ten days or whatever and you want to figure percent weight loss so that you can track it when you put it in the incubator? If so, there is a formula that you can use (you probably already know of this, but in case you don't) where you can use a set of calipers to measure each egg and figure out the approximate fresh egg weight. It's all math to me and I'm terrible at math, but the formula does exist. So if that is what you are trying to do, let me know and I'll steer you in the direction of that formula.
Pete J.

[Barkai]

This a very good thread,:supz:

I love :heart: Teitas!!!!

Stephen

[Toubab]

Philip,

At the point that you introduce Merlin, it is no longer a stooping bird, and you would probably either be discontent, or far more excited by a Chicquera... IMO.

See my next new post for dietary concerns and breeding.

[Pete J.]

Philip,

At the point that you introduce Merlin, it is no longer a stooping bird, and you would probably either be discontent, or far more excited by a Chicquera... IMO.

See my next new post for dietary concerns and breeding.
Merlin hybrids do stoop as do Merlins themselves. I will grant you that if you fly them at low pitches you don't see much of a stoop, but from up high...sure they stoop.

[Taita]

Hi again Neil,
I couldn't find much for fresh egg weights as she has been laid out for a few years now and much of that information was on an old computer. I have three fresh egg weights from her last season though. First, second and third egg were 27.1, 26.4, 25.6.
Getting back to your question about the calculation of fresh egg weight, am I to assume that you are trying to get at what the initial fresh egg weight was at the time she laid it and now that she has been sitting on it for ten days or whatever and you want to figure percent weight loss so that you can track it when you put it in the incubator? If so, there is a formula that you can use (you probably already know of this, but in case you don't) where you can use a set of calipers to measure each egg and figure out the approximate fresh egg weight. It's all math to me and I'm terrible at math, but the formula does exist. So if that is what you are trying to do, let me know and I'll steer you in the direction of that formula.
Pete J.

Hi Pete

Thanks for those egg weights. Interested to compare to those from our falcons which are not recycling. Yours around 7% of body weight, which is pretty consistent with ours. Think a peregrine egg is around 5% of body weight. It has been argued that the large egg size might be the limitation to recycling in this species. Perhaps this is not the case. Have one anecdotal record of recycling in the wild.

If I decide to go with an incubator might be quizzing you hard, if you don't mind.

Regards

Neil

[Pete J.]

Hi Pete

Thanks for those egg weights. Interested to compare to those from our falcons which are not recycling. Yours around 7% of body weight, which is pretty consistent with ours. Think a peregrine egg is around 5% of body weight. It has been argued that the large egg size might be the limitation to recycling in this species. Perhaps this is not the case. Have one anecdotal record of recycling in the wild.

If I decide to go with an incubator might be quizzing you hard, if you don't mind.

Regards

Neil
Your welcome Neil for the weights.
I always artificially incubate...everything. But, I can't make pure Teitas now if I wanted to as the female is laid out because of her age. And as I said before I think, the tiercel finally figured out how to donate properly a couple of days after she laid the last egg she would ever lay.:evil::twisted: So anything I would make out of him now would be a hybrid with something else. I have been trying to score a new younger female for a couple of years now but it just doesn't seem to be happening (falling on deaf ears). Unfortunately by writing about them I guess I sort of opened the flood gates and so many have ended up going into the hands of people that either aren't prepared for the long haul, or don't have very much experience with small falcons, or have limited to no experience with breeding. Hence many of them died in the last few years and not from being killed in the field either! I'm also suspecting that, by now, many of the birds that are left have to be getting pretty close related due to the small number that came in initially. Several of the pairs in the hands of the initial main breeder were broken up due to either deaths from malaria, some from WNV (I think) and some from maybe adeno-virus (suspected). I don't know if he has built up his pair numbers again or not at this point. An influx of new blood is likely in order, but I'm not sure that is going to happen due to their rarity in the wild.

[Taita]

An easy answer is this...if they have enough room (altitude) I think the Teitas can fly circles around most Peregrines simply because of the erratic way they can shift and turn at high speeds. But if they are on the ground or in tight quarters....just about anything that is determined can likely take them out. I have had a few times when I thought an oncoming Harrier might take one of the females, it was keeping up so closely on her. Quite frankly while I was flying this species I was a nervous wreck much of the time. When you're flying one of the smaller falcons on the block and everything else out there wants to eat it, it tends to make you grey pretty fast. In the winter here we have no shortage of raptors as this is where many of the northern raptors come to winter over. So they get pretty damn stacked up around here!
And yes, the do stall very easily. Heavy wingloading is not all it's cracked up to be sometimes.:roll:
Pete J

Hi Pete

Thank you for confirmation of my thoughts. Through flying teitas you probably have a much better idea of their limitations and strengths then we do from observing them free lofting or in the wild. The latter I can count one one hand and were at best fleeting so not very informative.

Copy the threat from wild raptors. I weather all small hawks inside a wire mesh cage over lawn. Between the black spars, mongooses and snakes, I doubt they would stand a chance otherwise.

Neil

[JHausman]

Related posts...
http://www.falconryforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=41155&highlight=Taita+Falcons&page=6 #32 #56, #59
And yes Taita Falcon and Teita Falcon are the same bird, the spelling differs for some reason but they are named after the Teita Hills in Africa where they were first found (?). I think I remember something about their first official scientific description was not until 1956 or thereabouts, so they are only known to the western world since that time, a relative newcomer in the vast scheme of things.

I was reading through this thread and wondering when Pete J. was gonna show up! Between you and Hatchett the reading should be really good. Ok. I am off to read more!

:supz:

[Taita]

Your welcome Neil for the weights.
I always artificially incubate...everything. But, I can't make pure Teitas now if I wanted to as the female is laid out because of her age. And as I said before I think, the tiercel finally figured out how to donate properly a couple of days after she laid the last egg she would ever lay.:evil::twisted: So anything I would make out of him now would be a hybrid with something else. I have been trying to score a new younger female for a couple of years now but it just doesn't seem to be happening (falling on deaf ears). Unfortunately by writing about them I guess I sort of opened the flood gates and so many have ended up going into the hands of people that either aren't prepared for the long haul, or don't have very much experience with small falcons, or have limited to no experience with breeding. Hence many of them died in the last few years and not from being killed in the field either! I'm also suspecting that, by now, many of the birds that are left have to be getting pretty close related due to the small number that came in initially. Several of the pairs in the hands of the initial main breeder were broken up due to either deaths from malaria, some from WNV (I think) and some from maybe adeno-virus (suspected). I don't know if he has built up his pair numbers again or not at this point. An influx of new blood is likely in order, but I'm not sure that is going to happen due to their rarity in the wild.


The timing sucks. Bad luck. Very aware that one doesn't get many chances at breeding these birds. At what age did your falcon stop laying? She must be pretty old now. My oldest is 17 this year. She has never laid an egg but is a great surrogate.

As for replacement. Teitas are as scarce as rocking horse dung in the wild. We have been trying to revisit all our recorded eyrie sites over the last three seasons and only found 1 pair so far. Expanding that search to where ever they have been seen. Hopefully that will be more successful.

[Pete J.]

The timing sucks. Bad luck. Very aware that one doesn't get many chances at breeding these birds. At what age did your falcon stop laying? She must be pretty old now. My oldest is 17 this year. She has never laid an egg but is a great surrogate.

As for replacement. Teitas are as scarce as rocking horse dung in the wild. We have been trying to revisit all our recorded eyrie sites over the last three seasons and only found 1 pair so far. Expanding that search to where ever they have been seen. Hopefully that will be more successful.

Good luck on that search. Perhaps the thing to do is search for colonies of Swifts in habitat that would be good for nesting Teitas. Might be easier to find the Swifts than the Teitas and then by watching the Swifts maybe the Teitas working them over would show themselves. And then cheat a bit....put a transmitter on a starling or something and pitch it out at the right time and when the tiercel takes it back to the eyrie just follow the beeper.

Mine was fourteen when quit, but she had been pushed pretty hard since I got her when she was nine. She still maintains a scrape and is in it all the time. I'd love to give her something to raise this year. She's never been able to have that experience. I know that Weaver mentioned that he had pairs that were still producing at twenty years old. But, mind you, they had never been recycled or extended either. Makes a difference in how long they'll keep going I suppose?

[Ben Offerein]

I wonder if an aplomado/ barbary falcon would be a good small bird falcon

[Toubab]

Pete,

Sure, but so do red-tails, technically. The vertical stoop is still something entirely different than the merlin types hunt with though, no?

J

Merlin hybrids do stoop as do Merlins themselves. I will grant you that if you fly them at low pitches you don't see much of a stoop, but from up high...sure they stoop.

[PrinceOfTheWesternDesert]

anybody who knows where i can get an eyass (purebred)teita, in the u.s. please email me the info,,

[Pete J.]

Pete,

Sure, but so do red-tails, technically. The vertical stoop is still something entirely different than the merlin types hunt with though, no?

J
It depends a great deal on the experience of the individual bird. Some Merlins go streaking across the sky at around 200 feet or so, closing on a bird at about that same altitude. When the Merlin gets close enough that the prey sees it, often the prey will then stoop toward the cover of vegetation far beneath it (a cluster of trees for instance). The Merlin will continue overhead and then stoop just like a Peregrine would, often overtaking the stooping prey and once in close proximity will then double it's efforts using short twisting stoops to commence pounding the prey severely, several times in short succession, then just swing around and bind to the prey and carry it off.
But you are right in the sense that most Merlins we see are flying low to the ground after having just launched off a fence post or power pole at distant quarry that is initially near the ground. If the prey has power then it may either ring up into the sky on the approach, or do a more gradual ascent as it tries to make some cover within range (a fenceline/hedgerow). Either way, the Merlin is a heat seeker in its style and will follow, using whatever technique is necessary to secure the meal. These low stealthy flights at distant prey happens to appeal very much to the crespucular nature of these falcons and most of their prey is caught very early in the morning or very late in day (pre-dawn and pre-dusk). At such times a stoop from altitude is quite difficult because you cannot often see the prey against the darkened landscape beneath you. But later in the morning or late afternoon, Merlins are often at altitude hunting prey that is moving to or from foraging areas, at altitude themselves, and this is the time to see Merlins acting very much like other falcons that we typical think of as waiting on style predators.
Pete

[Pete J.]

Here is some old vhs footage of my old imprint female Teita (16 years old now, but is 7 years old in this footage) during the early part of her molt. I'll try to get some new updated dv camcorder footage today that should be much better. Until I get that new footage uploaded and some old flight footage dubbed and ripped from my old vhs tapes, this will have to hold you until then.
http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff174/petej1956/th_adultTeita.jpg (http://s239.photobucket.com/albums/ff174/petej1956/?action=view&current=adultTeita.flv)

[PrinceOfTheWesternDesert]

Here is some old vhs footage of my old imprint female Teita (16 years old now, but is 7 years old in this footage) during the early part of her molt. I'll try to get some new updated dv camcorder footage today that should be much better. Until I get that new footage uploaded and some old flight footage dubbed and ripped from my old vhs tapes, this will have to hold you until then.
http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff174/petej1956/th_adultTeita.jpg (http://s239.photobucket.com/albums/ff174/petej1956/?action=view&current=adultTeita.flv)

thanks for posting that

[Pete J.]

thanks for posting that
You're welcome.
Here's some more footage I shot yesterday. Unfortunately it's not much better due to the compression that has to take place to get it into photobucket (from the original 354 mgs to 2.1 mgs...quite a crush of the data!).:evil:
http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff174/petej1956/th_Teitasadults1.jpg (http://s239.photobucket.com/albums/ff174/petej1956/?action=view&current=Teitasadults1.flv)

[Pete J.]

I also shot video yesterday of the Barbary X Teita adults. I should note that these hybrids were made principally because there was not a single semen donor available at the time and the female was laying eggs that would have been wasted otherwise. Fortunately I was developing a imprint tiercel for donoring but by the time he figured it out, sporatically at best, the female was laid out due to advanced age. So now I'm on the other end...a semen donor and no egg-laying female. You gotta love breeding sometimes!:box: They hybrids though are much more useful for generalized falconry than the pure Teitas as they are less specialized in both design and behavior compared to the quite specialized Teita.
http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff174/petej1956/th_BarbaryXTeitaadults.jpg (http://s239.photobucket.com/albums/ff174/petej1956/?action=view&current=BarbaryXTeitaadults.flv)

[Fly The Snipe]

Thank you for these rare images.

[Fly The Snipe]

Would be suitable for snipe hunting.

[TiercelJim]

I also shot video yesterday of the Barbary X Teita adults. I should note that these hybrids were made principally because there was not a single semen donor available at the time and the female was laying eggs that would have been wasted otherwise. Fortunately I was developing a imprint tiercel for donoring but by the time he figured it out, sporatically at best, the female was laid out due to advanced age. So now I'm on the other end...a semen donor and no egg-laying female. You gotta love breeding sometimes!:box: They hybrids though are much more useful for generalized falconry than the pure Teitas as they are less specialized in both design and behavior compared to the quite specialized Teita.
http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff174/petej1956/th_BarbaryXTeitaadults.jpg (http://s239.photobucket.com/albums/ff174/petej1956/?action=view&current=BarbaryXTeitaadults.flv)

Thanks for that!!stunning birds and a great album!!
jim

[Pete J.]

Would be suitable for snipe hunting.
The pure Teitas likely wouldn't be useful due to their behavior, but the hybrids certainly would like Snipe. Where I live I don't see Snipe but very rarely (high desert here), but they liked to chase anything in that size range so I'm sure they wouldn't flinch if a Snipe got up under them.

[Taita]

This thread on the teita falcon has generated a great deal of interest in this enigmatic species. It is clear that many falconers would love to get their hands on one. Unfortunately this is unlikely to happen in the near future as the species seems to be becoming increasing rare in the wild. While the data on the status of this species are too few to draw any definitive conclusions as a whole, there appears to have been a local decline of Teita Falcons in Zimbabwe over the last 20 years. Many of the 18 recorded eyrie sites known from here are no longer occupied. A similar pattern has been seen in Kenya and Zambia, but based on fewer eyrie sites. This would suggest that the species may be in deep trouble and even at possible risk of extinction.

However, not all the habitat that could potentially harbour Teita Falcons, both in Zimbabwe and regionally, has been thoroughly surveyed so the overall picture could be different. Surveys in South Africa have yielded a few pairs that weren't known to exist. Even recent survey, 2006, yielded another pair. Still, even with comprehensive survey of the wild population, I doubt that the teita will be considered anything other than rare. The data will be able to give us an indication of whether the species is secure or not.

While we are so unsure of the status of teitas in the wild, any captive individuals could be considered our last hope of saving the species and should be managed accordingly. Teitas are difficult to propagate in captivity so every individual counts, especially as there is little chance replenishing broodstock from the wild. At this stage the bulk of captive teitas are in the hands of the Zimbabwe Falconer's Club captive breeding programme. The breeding pair I hold falls under this project. There is at least one breeding pair in South Africa and an unknown number of individuals in the States. It is obvious that in order to maintain any sort of genetic integrity in the captive population there must be some exchange between breeders. Perhaps we should should have some inventory of who has what so any odd birds can be paired. Certainly at this stage there are no spare birds that could be sold. The Zimbabwean birds belong to the State so it is highly unlikely that they would approve any sale of birds but may authorize exchange with institutions or conservation organizations.

A workshop on conservation and status of the Teita Falcon is to be held at the Pan African Ornithological Congress in Cape Town in August this year. Hopefully we can come up with a comprehensive plan for the conservation of this species throughout its distribution.

[Cassini]

This thread on the teita falcon has generated a great deal of interest in this enigmatic species. It is clear that many falconers would love to get their hands on one. Unfortunately this is unlikely to happen in the near future as the species seems to be becoming increasing rare in the wild. While the data on the status of this species are too few to draw any definitive conclusions as a whole, there appears to have been a local decline of Teita Falcons in Zimbabwe over the last 20 years. Many of the 18 recorded eyrie sites known from here are no longer occupied. A similar pattern has been seen in Kenya and Zambia, but based on fewer eyrie sites. This would suggest that the species may be in deep trouble and even at possible risk of extinction.

However, not all the habitat that could potentially harbour Teita Falcons, both in Zimbabwe and regionally, has been thoroughly surveyed so the overall picture could be different. Surveys in South Africa have yielded a few pairs that weren't known to exist. Even recent survey, 2006, yielded another pair. Still, even with comprehensive survey of the wild population, I doubt that the teita will be considered anything other than rare. The data will be able to give us an indication of whether the species is secure or not.

While we are so unsure of the status of teitas in the wild, any captive individuals could be considered our last hope of saving the species and should be managed accordingly. Teitas are difficult to propagate in captivity so every individual counts, especially as there is little chance replenishing broodstock from the wild. At this stage the bulk of captive teitas are in the hands of the Zimbabwe Falconer's Club captive breeding programme. The breeding pair I hold falls under this project. There is at least one breeding pair in South Africa and an unknown number of individuals in the States. It is obvious that in order to maintain any sort of genetic integrity in the captive population there must be some exchange between breeders. Perhaps we should should have some inventory of who has what so any odd birds can be paired. Certainly at this stage there are no spare birds that could be sold. The Zimbabwean birds belong to the State so it is highly unlikely that they would approve any sale of birds but may authorize exchange with institutions or conservation organizations.

A workshop on conservation and status of the Teita Falcon is to be held at the Pan African Ornithological Congress in Cape Town in August this year. Hopefully we can come up with a comprehensive plan for the conservation of this species throughout its distribution.

I hope in general the situation as probably others on here , rectifies itself .
So is there no international studbook of known captive Taita's.

I remember talking to one very respected South African falconer-breeder , And he was
very frustraited that he could not get Taita,s just to secure the need for a varied
gene pool base so if the worst happened some lines could be saved and at
some point reintroduced.

You are right that there should be some international swaping of Taita bloodline
to save this beautiful little Falcon.I for one would be devistated to see this stunning little
bird gone from the world.

[Raptoria]

Teitas.......................MUST live 4 EVER! :supz:

Carlos

[Pete J.]

I estimate that there are perhaps as few as 10 or as many as 20 pairs floating around the U.S. right now. Of course, how closely related they are is a different story altogether and I have no clue about that part. I think that originally these pairs came from 6 birds that were brought over in the beginning by the Peregrine Fund. Whether this gene pool has been added to along the way I don't know. I know that majority of them are held by two projects, and I'm not entirely sure if the World Center still has any pairs up there?...they might. Most all of these are natural pairs, very few are imprints. At some point I think that imprints could be invaluable because they can be stimulated to lay more eggs through management, and semen donors can be used to create varied blood lines by inseminating several different distantly related females. Progeny from those and then the following season from another donor would rapidly increase the gene pool. Natural pairings is a very slow way of getting there with this species since it produces few young at a time and natural pairs do not appear to recycle well or at all is what I was told. So essentially, natural pairs take a minimum of three years to mature and then tend to produce only one or two young a year. This is almost like some of the eagles and hawkeagles as far as production is concerned. At that rate and with the declines mentioned by Taita in his post, not to mention their specialization for habitat structure and prey base....the long term prognosis doesn't sound good does it?
Another sometimes apparent obstacle is that imprinted birds do not always transfer ownership very well. I know that with my tiercel, for a while I thought that maybe the reason he wasn't donating well was because I had raised him and perhaps there was some internal conflict considering me for a mate. He did attempt copulations with me while still in immature plumage, again the following two years after that, but never figured it out to actually give semen. So, I transferred him to another talented imprint guy for two years. During that whole time the other guy worked with him and said he never got so much as a courting 'chup' out him. During this time he didn't allow me to see the bird once. After two years we decided it wasn't working and I went down to get him and bring him home. As we turned the corner of the building the bird was housed in and the guy and I were talking, "Clyde" heard my voice in the conversation and immediately began 'chupping'. I was not even visible to him at that point. The guy said "Well listen to that!!! He hasn't done that as long as I've had him." Once I got into view Clyde immediately flew to the scrape and began digging frantically and 'chupping' up a storm. And this was all at the tail end of the breeding season. The following year I got semen from him finally for the first time. He's still terribly sporadic about giving and his volume of semen is never very good, but at least he does give. I have yet to be able to produce anything from him though due to timing conflicts with other birds and his on again off again manner of giving. I'm still hoping though!!

[Goshawk]

Neat stuff, really informative post, Bad Luck always seems to be on your side Pete,
Regards,
Gavin

[Cassini]

What would it take for the peregrine fund to get some more birds in say from
south Africa now. Honestly I cannot believe that it is'nt possible !?

[Pete J.]

What would it take for the peregrine fund to get some more birds in say from
south Africa now. Honestly I cannot believe that it is'nt possible !?
I think as "Taita" said above, there will be a meeting about this sort of management.
I have wondered for a long time though, given the very patchy distribution that this species has and it's predisposition for being very sedentary, whether the species as a whole has a very limited gene pool to begin with? When I first saw a Teita the first thing that came to mind was that it looked very much like a dwarf falcon. The rather largish head, short appendages and stout body all reminded me of a true dwarf. I don't know the genetics involved in dwarfism, but what if dwarfism is prevalent in a limited gene pool and that the Teita itself is an expression of that abnormality? In a restricted gene pool it may be that this characteristic was selected for because it gave an advantage to filling a limited niche resulting in their current specialization. I don't know what the level of dna fingerprinting is at this point, but it might be interesting to have some electrophoretic work done on the extreme locations of these populations to see if they are, in fact, already so closely related. This could account for their low reproductive rate. It has always seemed odd to me that such a small raptor would have such limited reproductive potential.

[Taita]

What would it take for the peregrine fund to get some more birds in say from
south Africa now. Honestly I cannot believe that it is'nt possible !?

Really posted last to try an provide an explanation to why teitas are not available. Receiving quite a few PM's regarding this.

The results achieved so far in captive breeding of teitas doesn't really justify taking more birds from the few remaining in the wild. However, this is based on attempts at natural breeding. Like Pete, have also observed that imprints are very loyal to who ever reared them. Takes a long time before an imprint will accept a new "mate". Have heard via the grape vine that the South African's are making progress on artificial breeding of teitas, but don't have the facts on hand yet. Incidently both tiercels I bred last year were hand reared from hatching so are chronic imprints. Possibly will direct one of these to the South African programme.

The reason for the apparent decline of teitas is not obvious. Most of the eyrie sites we know of are in remote protected areas (National Parks) so direct persecution by man seems unlikely. Competition from Peregrines and lanners would seem to be the most feasible explanation. Particularly as on the appearance of lanners, the teitas disappear. As teita populations are pretty isolated from one another there is probably restricted gene flow which may also affect fertility and fecundity. We assume they are sedentary but we have no information either way. The first pair of teitas was found in South Africa only in the 1980's. Were they always there, or did they expand their range?

I still believe that a few pairs of teitas could hold out in the wild indefinitely. However to secure their future we really need to find strongholds that could be conserved and monitored closely. Perhaps with study of wild teitas we may be able to find the causes leading to their decline and intervene if necessary. Finding them is the immediate challenge. We don't even have data on success of fledging. I really think that fertility and fledging are definitely a problem for this species. Both of these problems could be remedied with a little management of wild birds. Possibly even introduce genes from captive birds that are breeding successfully.

So many questions and few answers. Are we too late to do any thing? Do they have a better chance in wild? Are we seeing a natural extinction? Are there lots, but we just haven't found them? A real dilemma.

[Taita]

On the odd occasion we get it right. Blackie feeding teita chick a black eyed bulbul.

[Pete J.]

On the odd occasion we get it right. Blackie feeding teita chick a black eyed bulbul.
Taa Dahhh (drum roll with cymbals)...Congrats Taita!!!!

[Cassini]

What a lovely image! we just need to see alot more of this though
I suppose. Thankyou for posting this.

[Pete J.]

I take it this was production from a natural pair bonding "Taita"?

[Goshawk]

On the odd occasion we get it right. Blackie feeding teita chick a black eyed bulbul.

Nice Picture:supz::supz::supz:...Gavin

[Raptoria]

WOW!

Congrats!
Keep doing the good job!:supz::supz::supz:

Taitas.......MUST LIVE 4 EVER!:heart:

Please share more pictures!

Carlos.

[Kariba2]

Hi Neil,
Was this one of Rons birds, just wandering how things are going with the pairs at falcon?
Fantastic to see the 'toppies' being out to good use...

[Pete J.]

I finally threw together the bits and pieces of video that I shot over the years of working with the Teitas and compressed it down into a little over 5 minutes of video. Hopefully it will be seen for what it is, a video log of the development of some young falcons from pre-flight through to hunting. Hopefully it will be entertaining and informative for those that have an interest in this species. I had to put it on youtube because it was 20 seconds too long to go into my basic photobucket account. The resolution was better at youtube anyway.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIyACaoU1EI
Enjoy.

[SparkleBee]

Thanks for posting that video Pete, exquisite and fascinating little falcons.

[Raptoria]

WOW!


Unique material,
Nice music,
LOVELY falcons,
.....................TAITAS must live 4 ever.:supz:

Thanks for sharing!

Carlos.

[Pete J.]

Thanks SparkleBee and Carlos. Glad it's finally together. What a chore updating old technology to the new. Thankfully I finally have a digital camcorder, so the transition and quality will be much improved. Now all I need is something interesting to film!!!:roll:

[Pete J.]

FYI, there is a way to choose a 'view in higher quality' just below and to the right of the smaller window where the video will play. I just noticed it. I would have mentioned it earlier but I'm not very familiar with that site.

[Goshawk]

Neat stuff Pete...Those birds really look pretty...Thanks for posting...Gavin

[Pete J.]

Thanks Gavin...now get back to those exams you slacker!!:box::-P

[Goshawk]

Thanks Gavin...now get back to those exams you slacker!!:box::-P
Now why does this sound familiar, i am sure I heard it some where before ...I have had exams non stop without a break for the last year its killing me, got another set at the end of this month:lol:...Gavin

[Pete J.]

I thought this article might be of interest. It seems to confirm my suspicion of the relationship between the Teita and the Barbary. Some of the other findings were interesting about the origin of falcons evolutionarily and the relationship of the various groups. Also the age of the supposed development of the different groups since their earliest formation into the falcon evolution.
http://www.publish.csiro.au/paper/MU9890193.htm

[Taita]

I thought this article might be of interest. It seems to confirm my suspicion of the relationship between the Teita and the Barbary. Some of the other findings were interesting about the origin of falcons evolutionarily and the relationship of the various groups. Also the age of the supposed development of the different groups since their earliest formation into the falcon evolution.
http://www.publish.csiro.au/paper/MU9890193.htm

Hi Pete

Looks like a good reference. Will try and have a look at full m/s in due course. Presume grey back kestrels are Dickinson's, Gray, Madagascar grouping. I have Dickinson's that I reared from hatching, now in its 2nd year. Has an unbelievably strong bill which it uses in preference to feet. Bit like a parrot. Doesn't talk "falcon" either- alarm call, contact call nothing like any other true falcon. No chipping or kekking. A topic for another thread when I can get onto internet. Convinced that I am now living in a 10th world country as nothing seems to work here. If not the service provider, then the electricity and now the telephones are stuffed too. Hence my absence for a few days.

To answer earlier questions. All offspring posted from one natural bonded pair. Both parents f1 captive bred, falcon bred by Ron Hartley and tiercel bred by Willie Gau. Photo of falcon and chick was from breeding of 2005, there were two, but pair ate one after the third day. Were brilliant parents up to that moment. Removed second chick as tiercel was about to dispatch the second. Placed this chick under surrogate care of Blackie, 17 year old falcon also ex Ron Hartley. Blackie has never laid an egg in her life despite spending most of her time in breeding pens with various tiercels. Reared last year's offspring by hand to create full imprints.

Kariba2 mentioned "toppies", vernacular name for bulbuls. I like to feed fresh natural food (perferably still warm) for at least the first couple of days. Obviously can't use columbids for this, so rely mostly on small wild fruit eaters. Young falcons seem to do really well on these. Reared af. hobbies, dickinsons and taitas from very young on this diet with very good results.

Look foward to looking at the clips of taitas, electronic gods permitting.

[Bwana]

Regarding 'decline' in the population of Taita Falcons (Taita - named after Taita Hills in Kenya), Leslie Brown is his book 'Birds of Prey, their biology and ecology' Hamlyn 1976 states: "Again, we must distinguish between mere rarity and being threatened. The Taita Falcon is, and apparently always has been, very rare indeed for obscure reasons throughout its wide African range. The scarce population is apparently not in any way threatened, however.

I thought it interesting that these comments were made more than 30 years ago?

I know personally of two current nest sites in Northern Tanzania.

[Taita]

I take it this was production from a natural pair bonding "Taita"?

Yes. Both parents F1 captive bred. Falcon ex Ron Hartley and tiercel ex Willie Gau. Photo is of breeding 2005. Used 17 year old Blackie as surrogate as parents killed one of the two chicks and teircel was about to dispatch this one. Really odd as this only happened on the third day so I though all was good. 2007 breeding, 2 tiercels, I hand reared both so completely imprinted.

[Taita]

Hi Neil,
Was this one of Rons birds, just wandering how things are going with the pairs at falcon?
Fantastic to see the 'toppies' being out to good use...

Toppies are good graze. Used them and mousebirds for rearing Af. Hobbies, a Dickinson's and teitas. Like to feed them fresh, preferably still warm, at least for the first few days. Seems to give eyases a good start with good survival.

There are a few pairs of teitas at Falcon. These birds are getting really old now. Not much happened since 2005. Reg Querl bred a tiercel from his birds that were originally at Peterhouse, and moved when he transferred to Falcon.

[Taita]

Regarding 'decline' in the population of Taita Falcons (Taita - named after Taita Hills in Kenya), Leslie Brown is his book 'Birds of Prey, their biology and ecology' Hamlyn 1976 states: "Again, we must distinguish between mere rarity and being threatened. The Taita Falcon is, and apparently always has been, very rare indeed for obscure reasons throughout its wide African range. The scarce population is apparently not in any way threatened, however.

I thought it interesting that these comments were made more than 30 years ago?

I know personally of two current nest sites in Northern Tanzania.

There is very little record of recent survey for teita falcons outside of Zimbabwe and South Africa. My observations earlier in this thread refer to what we have seen in Zimbabwe. One active site out of a potential 18 known sites is cause for concern and indicates a decline. This is based on intensive survey on foot. Zimbabwe is considered to be stronghold for the species. However, this may be a reflection of effort dedicated to searching for them by the Zimbabwe Falconer's Club and the Peregrine Fund, rather than this country being the stronghold for the species. Teita falcons are considered to be vulnerable so their conservation status has not really changed since Leslie Brown's observations. Still, I wonder whether the conditions and habitat on which his assessment was made have remained unchanged for 30 years.

Any records from Tanzania are extremely useful and need to be included in the database. Will PM details. Teitas are known to occur in Tanzania and Northern Mozambique but in what numbers is unknown. There is a workshop dedicated to conservation status of teitas to be held at the Pan African Ornithological Congress later this year. Obviously the more information we have the greater the degree of accuracy of the assessment of the conservation status of the species. There is always the concern that incorrect classification of a species, particularly into threatened or endangered categories, detracts from those species that really need conservation effort and funding.

[Cassini]

Any records from Tanzania are extremely useful and need to be included in the database. Will PM details. Teitas are known to occur in Tanzania and Northern Mozambique but in what numbers is unknown. There is a workshop dedicated to conservation status of teitas to be held at the Pan African Ornithological Congress later this year. Obviously the more information we have the greater the degree of accuracy of the assessment of the conservation status of the species. There is always the concern that incorrect classification of a species, particularly into threatened or endangered categories, detracts from those species that really need conservation effort and funding.

Re your comments above , Do you know who is leading the workshop at the
Pan African Congress this year. If so I'd like to offer some of my Art work
if It will help in any way to raise awareness or to even illustrate a lecture.

Thanks Andrew Ellis

[Taita]

Re your comments above , Do you know who is leading the workshop at the
Pan African Congress this year. If so I'd like to offer some of my Art work
if It will help in any way to raise awareness or to even illustrate a lecture.

Thanks Andrew Ellis

Hi Andrew

Andrew Jenkins, from the Fitzpatrick Institute, University of Cape Town and Munir Virani, African Co-ordinator, the Peregrine Fund, are leading the raptor sessions. I am sure they will be interested in your kind offer. Also for your interest, the IAF Field meet is in Bloemfontein, South Africa, July of this year.

[Goshawk]

Hi Andrew

Andrew Jenkins, from the Fitzpatrick Institute, University of Cape Town and Munir Virani, African Co-ordinator, the Peregrine Fund, are leading the raptor sessions. I am sure they will be interested in your kind offer. Also for your interest, the IAF Field meet is in Bloemfontein, South Africa, July of this year.
Say Hi to Munir and Simon if he is around for me please, Seriously amazing Guys:supz::supz::supz:...Gavin

[Cassini]

Hi Andrew

Andrew Jenkins, from the Fitzpatrick Institute, University of Cape Town and Munir Virani, African Co-ordinator, the Peregrine Fund, are leading the raptor sessions. I am sure they will be interested in your kind offer. Also for your interest, the IAF Field meet is in Bloemfontein, South Africa, July of this year.

Thanks for the info , Regarding the IAF Meet , I know all about it but I am not sure
that it is possible for me to attend because of work load!! Although I'd love to
catch up with Tim Wagner, Francios Breedt, and others. I've visited Francois in
Bloem. Beautiful hawking country!!
On a side note Skip Tubbs from the states is going and will have a load of my
Prints including the some of the Taita and Swifts I produced.

I will try and contact Andrew Jenkins, and Munir Virani.

Andrew.

[Bwana]

Hi Neil

I have some contact info for you on Taita Falcons in Tanzania (I was unable to pm you - I have not yet posted sufficient posts!). You can email me tpsafari@globalnet.co.uk

Tony

[Taita]

Hi Tony

Very excited and appreciate your response.

Thanks

[Pete J.]

I finally threw together the bits and pieces of video that I shot over the years of working with the Teitas and compressed it down into a little over 5 minutes of video. Hopefully it will be seen for what it is, a video log of the development of some young falcons from pre-flight through to hunting. Hopefully it will be entertaining and informative for those that have an interest in this species. I had to put it on youtube because it was 20 seconds too long to go into my basic photobucket account. The resolution was better at youtube anyway.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIyACaoU1EI
Enjoy.
Here is the link for the companion video to the Teita video, this time it is the Barbary X Teita hybrids. Comparing the two videos, pay particular attention to the difference in speed, acceleration, pitch out and manueverability.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uimkG6Hf43E

[FredrickFogg]

Here is the link for the companion video to the Teita video, this time it is the Barbary X Teita hybrids. Comparing the two videos, pay particular attention to the difference in speed, acceleration, pitch out and manueverability.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uimkG6Hf43E

Great video! But geez, that music! My dog whines better than that! LOL

[Pete J.]

Ah well...I considered putting some Garth Brooks on there instead, but it just didn't seem exotic enough!LOL

[Taita]

Totally out on laying dates as I was away at the Taita Workshop at the Pan African Ornithological Congress. Candled eggs on Sunday, only 2 instead of normal three. Couldn't understand why the one was so dark, until the second egg started chirping. Left both eggs under the falcon. Pipped by Monday morning 6am, no obvious progress through the day. Found hatched 5.30 am this morning. Have removed the chick to rear to 7 days, after which intend returning to parents. This based on mishap in 2005 where tiercel cleared both eyases off the ledge at 3 and 4 days, respectively. Don't want to risk a repeat, but really need to have parent reared offspring so we have as many options as possible for further captive breeding.

Will take photos this evening and try and post tomorrow.

[Pete J.]

So you mentioned why one was so dark and that 'the chick' was taken for rearing for 7 days. Was the other egg infertile then or it just hasn't hatched yet?

[Taita]

So you mentioned why one was so dark and that 'the chick' was taken for rearing for 7 days. Was the other egg infertile then or it just hasn't hatched yet?

It hasn't hatched yet. Although I suspect that it is probably infertile, perhaps cracked, as it should have hatched by now.

[Pete J.]

It hasn't hatched yet. Although I suspect that it is probably infertile, perhaps cracked, as it should have hatched by now.

Well, as long as she is still sitting it then that will help with keeping her interested in the nest until you can put the chick that did hatch back in at 7 days. Good luck with that one and I hope the tiercel behaves himself this time around.

[Taita]

Teita falcon +12 hours after hatch

[Pete J.]

Looking good! So odd to be looking at a newly hatched chick when for me I'm months away from breeding efforts again...and thankful for the break!:supz: In other words, glad it's you and not me right now!!:)

[Taita]

Looking good! So odd to be looking at a newly hatched chick when for me I'm months away from breeding efforts again...and thankful for the break!:supz: In other words, glad it's you and not me right now!!:)

Should be enjoying this but it is turning out to be a mission. Had powerlines and transformer oil stolen from our grid on Thursday night so no electricity since. Consequently brooding being done with a combination of back up generator and hot water bottles. Eyas looking very healthy though, warm day ambient ± 30°C a godsend in the circumstances. Tomorrow is D.Day, hopefully parents can carry the can from then on. Eyas showing no fear of falcons as happily trying to solicit food from my old teita, blackie, yesterday afternoon. Pretty sure the eyas is a falcon. Will post photos of development to 7 days, in due course.

I would hate to make a living out of this. Don't envy those with multiple broods of young falcons.

[Pete J.]

Geez, that does sound like a mission! Might be time to invest in some imprint females (of some other species) that can take up the rearing slack regardless of the electrical situation that might rear its ugly head at such inopportune times.

[Taita]

Geez, that does sound like a mission! Might be time to invest in some imprint females (of some other species) that can take up the rearing slack regardless of the electrical situation that might rear its ugly head at such inopportune times.

If all goes well this pair can rear their own offspring next year. As a back up, have been grooming an imprint Dickinson's Kestrel for the job. She is in her second year now. Reared her from hatching - a long story. Perhaps an imprint peregrine would be better, as it is probably the closest relative of the teita, but they and lanners breed way earlier. Both normally peak end of July/early August whereas my teitas normally lay in the 1st week of October. Think that the Dickinson's will do the job as it is more or less the same size, though weighs a lot less (±230g) and has much smaller feet. Need to test her with something before offering a teita eyas.

The situation here is very tiresome with a contingency needed for the simplest things, even bread and milk.

[Pete J.]

Interesting about the timing of laying of Teita compared to the Lanner and others. With time they should be moving up their laying time. My old female Teita and my semen donor tend to go not too long after the Barbaries (2 weeks or so) and Barbaries are considered quite early layers (earlier than Peregrines and Prairies for sure). An F. p. minor wouldn't be a bad choice although a bit larger than ideal. The kestrel sounds useful though provided it can be in breeding mode at the same general time. If not you might be able to move it forward by increasing the photoperiod, but, if you could do that you wouldn't have this problem to begin with right? (reliable electricity would be necessary for moving up the photoperiod) With any luck the pair will get over this hump this year by raising this youngster and you'll be home free for the duration. Although, it does still limit you to just the one clutch a year and Teitas are so reproductively minimal for such a small falcon (weird). It would be useful to be able to double clutch them.

[Taita]

3 (1 pic), 4 (2 pics) and five days old (2 pics), respectively. Last photo shows the distinctive humped back found in this species.

[Pete J.]

Thanks for posting those pics of the development. Another thing that I always felt was a bit 'oddball' about young Teitas too was the development of the lower mandible. It always seemed a bit 'over done' early on compared to other falco species.

[Taita]

Interesting about the timing of laying of Teita compared to the Lanner and others. With time they should be moving up their laying time. My old female Teita and my semen donor tend to go not too long after the Barbaries (2 weeks or so) and Barbaries are considered quite early layers (earlier than Peregrines and Prairies for sure). An F. p. minor wouldn't be a bad choice although a bit larger than ideal. The kestrel sounds useful though provided it can be in breeding mode at the same general time. If not you might be able to move it forward by increasing the photoperiod, but, if you could do that you wouldn't have this problem to begin with right? (reliable electricity would be necessary for moving up the photoperiod) With any luck the pair will get over this hump this year by raising this youngster and you'll be home free for the duration. Although, it does still limit you to just the one clutch a year and Teitas are so reproductively minimal for such a small falcon (weird). It would be useful to be able to double clutch them.

So far so good. Eyas back on the ledge 29/10/2008. Now starting to grow feathers. Parents feeding it well and very protective. Kestrel also coming on well. She is trying to court me. Dickinson's peak in Oct/Nov so coincides well with taita breeding. Think I have my falcons in a row to now attempt double clutching next season. Up to now been hesitant as faced with choice of definite production of fewer eyases versus unknown potential from double clutching. Parental brooding and hatching been good, just rearing been unreliable. Nervous about artificial brooding given electricity supply and my lack of experience and don't know whether this falcon will recycle. Your PM suggestion has really got me excited. Very practical approach.

[Taita]

Thanks for posting those pics of the development. Another thing that I always felt was a bit 'oddball' about young Teitas too was the development of the lower mandible. It always seemed a bit 'over done' early on compared to other falco species.

Never really thought about this, but see your point. Wonder why? Perhaps this is more obvious in tiercels. Not much difference in gape between male and female despite considerable dimorphism, 200g and 360g, respectively. Perhaps this makes the mandible of tiercels look over-developed when young. Still not sure whether this eyas is a falcon or tiercel yet. So far only bred tiercels.

[Pete J.]

So far so good. Eyas back on the ledge 29/10/2008. Now starting to grow feathers. Parents feeding it well and very protective. Kestrel also coming on well. She is trying to court me. Dickinson's peak in Oct/Nov so coincides well with taita breeding. Think I have my falcons in a row to now attempt double clutching next season. Up to now been hesitant as faced with choice of definite production of fewer eyases versus unknown potential from double clutching. Parental brooding and hatching been good, just rearing been unreliable. Nervous about artificial brooding given electricity supply and my lack of experience and don't know whether this falcon will recycle. Your PM suggestion has really got me excited. Very practical approach.
Well, be aware that this species has been described as not able to be double clutched, although I have done it with my imprint falcon with no difficulties. I always attributed the lack of ability of pairs to double clutch in captivity to minimal dietary requirements for this species. Coturnix quail will work for food, but it is not really good enough which could explain why earlier attempts at double clutching did not work well. It makes sense, the quality of quail meat is no way close to the nutritional quality of swifts and red-eyed starlings that this falcon preys upon in the wild. So I would boost their food quality to the best level you can and see how it goes!

[Pete J.]

Never really thought about this, but see your point. Wonder why? Perhaps this is more obvious in tiercels. Not much difference in gape between male and female despite considerable dimorphism, 200g and 360g, respectively. Perhaps this makes the mandible of tiercels look over-developed when young. Still not sure whether this eyas is a falcon or tiercel yet. So far only bred tiercels.
I always figured it was because they were actually a parrot in a previous existence and converged into the falcon line.:roll::lol: Just kidding of course, but when I saw my first ones at close to first flight climbing a brick wall of the house using their feet and beak to climb...well...let's just say I was starting to freak out a bit! "Polly want a starling?":yawinkle:

[Goshawk]

I always figured it was because they were actually a parrot in a previous existence and converged into the falcon line.:roll::lol: Just kidding of course, but when I saw my first ones at close to first flight climbing a brick wall of the house using their feet and beak to climb...well...let's just say I was starting to freak out a bit! "Polly want a starling?":yawinkle:
LOL that's really funny:lol:, though parrots can be carnivorous and active hunters...Gavin

[Taita]

Well, be aware that this species has been described as not able to be double clutched, although I have done it with my imprint falcon with no difficulties. I always attributed the lack of ability of pairs to double clutch in captivity to minimal dietary requirements for this species. Coturnix quail will work for food, but it is not really good enough which could explain why earlier attempts at double clutching did not work well. It makes sense, the quality of quail meat is no way close to the nutritional quality of swifts and red-eyed starlings that this falcon preys upon in the wild. So I would boost their food quality to the best level you can and see how it goes!

Numerous attempts have been made to double clutch the pairs we have here. Seems that double clutching is the exception rather than the rule for this species. Don't think that it is entirely diet related as for the most part our teitas are being fed a very high quality diet. Typically wild caught doves and quelea (a natural prey). Someone even went as far as feeding freshly caught larks, starlings and seedeaters, for the whole season with no success. There is currently a pair in South Africa (full brother/full sister pairing-hummm) which has been successfully recycled with offspring from 2 clutches in the same season. Don't have the details of clutch sizes and fertility though.

[Mark Holder]

Numerous attempts have been made to double clutch the pairs we have here. Seems that double clutching is the exception rather than the rule for this species. Don't think that it is entirely diet related as for the most part our teitas are being fed a very high quality diet. Typically wild caught doves and quelea (a natural prey). Someone even went as far as feeding freshly caught larks, starlings and seedeaters, for the whole season with no success. There is currently a pair in South Africa (full brother/full sister pairing-hummm) which has been successfully recycled with offspring from 2 clutches in the same season. Don't have the details of clutch sizes and fertility though.

I know the pair and they were double clutched successfully last year, this year one came out of the first clutch and the second clutch as far as i know are still in the incubator

[Taita]

I know the pair and they were double clutched successfully last year, this year one came out of the first clutch and the second clutch as far as i know are still in the incubator

Thank you for this info. Do you know how many eggs were laid per clutch?

[Taita]

The teita eyas has finally fledged. It is definitely a tiercel. Parent reared from 8 days without incident and in good health. Recording fledging as 1/12/2008, however I returned it back to the ledge the same day twice as it was unable to gain even low perches. Didn't want leave it on the ground overnight. Spent the following day (2/12/2008) on the ledge. By 3/12/2008 could fly sufficiently to reach the perch closest to the ledge.

Photos of eyas at 6 days, about 12 days before and the day before fledging.

[Taita]

The order of photos in the preview is different to that in the posting. How does that work?

[Mark Holder]

Thank you for this info. Do you know how many eggs were laid per clutch?

Sorry for the delay in replying, i will try and found out for you

[Pete J.]

That last pic is comical! The youngster seems to have a look on its face that says "What's all the fuss about?" as it backs up the parent.:supz:

[Raseni]

beautifull! really a stunning little falcon, love it! ME WANT!:rolleyes:

cheers
Rasmus

[Raptoria]

CONGRATULATIONS!:supz::supz::supz:

Carlos.

[Taita]

For those who followed progress last year. My teitas have laid a 3 egg clutch this season. Falcon started incubating on Sunday 20/09/09. Fingers crossed. Will post a recent photo of last year's offspring in due course. He has turned out to be an extremely well mannered and confident little tiercel.

[Pete J.]

Three egg clutch is quite good for them being as they can barely seem to cover two from what I've seen. If it was me I would think about pulling one of those before too long just to make sure they all get the attention they need...otherwise none of them might get the attention it needs. You can always slip the youngster back to them later on.
Something to think about. Best of luck, let us know how it goes! Congrats!!:supz:

[Raptoria]

GOOD LUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Carlos.

[PrinceOfTheWesternDesert]

ive always liked them

[Taita]

Three egg clutch is quite good for them being as they can barely seem to cover two from what I've seen. If it was me I would think about pulling one of those before too long just to make sure they all get the attention they need...otherwise none of them might get the attention it needs. You can always slip the youngster back to them later on.
Something to think about. Best of luck, let us know how it goes! Congrats!!:supz:

Thanks for your advice. Will keep an eye out to make sure none them are rolled out. Currently all 3 are very close together in a compact scrape and falcon seems to cover them adequately. She is exeptionally large at ± 420g. Her first clutch laid was 4 eggs. Ron Hartley & Willie Gau both successfully fledged 3 eyases using natural incubation so it is possible, but I definitely get your point.

[Taita]

GOOD LUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Carlos.


Thanks, it is always nerve wracking.

[PrinceOfTheWesternDesert]

still none for sale?

[Taita]

still none for sale?

No, unfortunately not yet. However, if any become available would give priority to anyone with unpaired viable teitas.

[Cassini]

No, unfortunately not yet. However, if any become available would give priority to anyone with unpaired viable teitas.

Very sensible outlook. I hope everything comes together for you and the Taitas.

[Eagle-Eyrie]

Dear and mark

At the Iaf meet a discussion was held regarding the mixing of bloodlines and the posibility of unrelated stock been put into breeding projects etc as i'm sure you are aware. Ben Hoffman has really done well with his stock and some of the other guys from the ZFC had much success and were at the fore front of the raptor conservation front and this allowed it to do well. the conservation of the species is crutial, not only from a falconry point of view but from a raptor conservasionist aspect as well, and i belive that the road ahead is positive and the most suitably experienced people be tasked with such a task. the biggest problem is to avoid inbreeding and through this the falconry community must work together for the best interest of the species at heart.

great work to all the people who have made an effort to conserve such a fantastic falcon. the Andrew Ellis painting of the tiata on the cover of the latest IAF publication is breathtaking and makes me loooong for home!

good hawking

dylan

[Cassini]

Dear and mark

At the Iaf meet a discussion was held regarding the mixing of bloodlines and the posibility of unrelated stock been put into breeding projects etc as i'm sure you are aware. Ben Hoffman has really done well with his stock and some of the other guys from the ZFC had much success and were at the fore front of the raptor conservation front and this allowed it to do well. the conservation of the species is crutial, not only from a falconry point of view but from a raptor conservasionist aspect as well, and i belive that the road ahead is positive and the most suitably experienced people be tasked with such a task. the biggest problem is to avoid inbreeding and through this the falconry community must work together for the best interest of the species at heart.

great work to all the people who have made an effort to conserve such a fantastic falcon. the Andrew Ellis painting of the tiata on the cover of the latest IAF publication is breathtaking and makes me loooong for home!

good hawking

dylan

very well said Dylan, and thanks very much for the compliment. The painting on the cover was showing the Taita in its true environment. steep sided gorges. beautiful falcon in a beautiful place.

[Taita]

Dear and mark

At the Iaf meet a discussion was held regarding the mixing of bloodlines and the posibility of unrelated stock been put into breeding projects etc as i'm sure you are aware. Ben Hoffman has really done well with his stock and some of the other guys from the ZFC had much success and were at the fore front of the raptor conservation front and this allowed it to do well. the conservation of the species is crutial, not only from a falconry point of view but from a raptor conservasionist aspect as well, and i belive that the road ahead is positive and the most suitably experienced people be tasked with such a task. the biggest problem is to avoid inbreeding and through this the falconry community must work together for the best interest of the species at heart.

great work to all the people who have made an effort to conserve such a fantastic falcon. the Andrew Ellis painting of the tiata on the cover of the latest IAF publication is breathtaking and makes me loooong for home!

good hawking

dylan

There is progress on this. Just waiting for bureaucratic wheels to turn. Will advise all once it is completed.

[Taita]

very well said Dylan, and thanks very much for the compliment. The painting on the cover was showing the Taita in its true environment. steep sided gorges. beautiful falcon in a beautiful place.

How do I go about getting a copy (.pdf)? Didn't attend the IAF meeting, but very interested in the discussion on captive Taita Falcons.

[Eagle-Eyrie]

Dear neil, andrew and falconers

although i am not actively involved in the conservation or breeding efforts of this species, i do follow the progress and have a keen interest in these amazing falcons. I hope that in the future after i have established a good foundation of experience so that i can also positively impact on the conservation of this and many other species that are at risk. I must commend the efforts of the old/new zfc ,south african falconers in their efforts with regards to work done on the species over the years as it has been rewarding and effective. As for info on the precedings of the meetings held at the iaf 08 i woul suggest you contact ben hoffman and tim wagner as they are the best suited to offer comment. At the meeting breeders, international representitives, conservationists, falconers and government conservation officers attended so as to discuss all the factors that effect the species can be discussed and what can and will be done to prevent the decline of the population. Without the efforts of all the dedicated conservationists and falconers the outlook for any threatened species is not positive. We all have to do our part-big or small- to conserve the birds we love, raptor conservation and falconry work hand in hand towards a similar goal. I believe the earliest ornithologists were early falconers and we are here now to do our bit.

good hawking

dylan

ps- andrew is there any prints of the painting that featured on the iaf journal spring 09? If so please pm details. Happy hunting!

[Eagle-Eyrie]

Dear neil, andrew and falconers

although i am not actively involved in the conservation or breeding efforts of this species, i do follow the progress and have a keen interest in these amazing falcons. I hope that in the future after i have established a good foundation of experience so that i can also positively impact on the conservation of this and many other species that are at risk. I must commend the efforts of the old/new zfc ,south african falconers in their efforts with regards to work done on the species over the years as it has been rewarding and effective. As for info on the precedings of the meetings held at the iaf 08 i woul suggest you contact ben hoffman and tim wagner as they are the best suited to offer comment. At the meeting breeders, international representitives, conservationists, falconers and government conservation officers attended so as to discuss all the factors that effect the species can be discussed and what can and will be done to prevent the decline of the population. Without the efforts of all the dedicated conservationists and falconers the outlook for any threatened species is not positive. We all have to do our part-big or small- to conserve the birds we love, raptor conservation and falconry work hand in hand towards a similar goal. I believe the earliest ornithologists were early falconers and we are here now to do our bit.

good hawking

dylan

ps- andrew is there any prints of the painting that featured on the iaf journal spring 09? If so please pm details. Happy hunting!

[Eagle-Eyrie]

Could some of the experienced breeders add comments on the best management practices with regards to breeding and husbandry of a species like this. I know that some of the guys in the us have been involved and comments would be well recieved.

good hawking

dylan

[Cassini]

Hi Dylan, sorry no there is no prints of that particular Taita painting although there are
the other Taita prints I have. Zambezi Fall is available in Paper and Canvas prints, called Giclee's. The paper version is smaller than the Canvas version. All the details and ordering information is on my website.

Good luck to all involved with trying to save this beautiful little falcon.

P.S I'm thinking should release the other image and support in some way the funding of these
small projects regarding the Taita.

[Pete J.]

Hi Dylan, sorry no there is no prints of that particular Taita painting ...................

P.S I'm thinking should release the other image and support in some way the funding of these
small projects regarding the Taita.
I didn't know you had done other Taita paintings...are they on your website?

[Cassini]

I didn't know you had done other Taita paintings...are they on your website?

Hi Pete, yes have done another one a few years back you can see it on my blog if you trawl through it for a bit.

Andy

[Pete J.]

Thanks, I'll take a look on the blog. I searched the other site, didn't see it there.

[Menoiazei]

Very interesting thread info and pictures!
teitas rock!!
:supz:

[Little Joe]

With all respect to the relevant parties, I feel the Taita is as much a political sitution as the peregrine was. Its a bird that breeds and lives unobserved by everyone. And will do so if undisturbed by anyone.

The greatest threat has to be hazardous farming methods, as was with the peregrine.