Gyrfalcons Colors...

[Dan Paradis]

I would like to have some thoughts from Gyr guys about what you consider to be a "Black Gyr"... Pure Bred Gyrfalcons only no hybrid counts ok

Here are pics of an Adult female Pure Gyrfalcon we have: considered (or not) a Black Gyrfalcon...your thoughts please

[Matthew Patching]

Others veiw will proberbly differ, but that to me is a bog standard grey gyr, Ill try and get a pick of what I call a black gyr. Not meaning to be rude, but thats what I see. :)

[Hatchero]

Others veiw will proberbly differ, but that to me is a bog standard grey gyr, Ill try and get a pick of what I call a black gyr. Not meaning to be rude, but thats what I see. :)

i'm afraid i would concur.
Jim

[Matthew Patching]

This is what I call a black gyr, bred by john lejeune.

[Barbary Boy]

its a funny thing , but black gyrs are really only"black" in immature plumage and all go a lot lighter as they moult out? ive never seen a really black, black gyr in adult plumage? i would say the bird in the picture is a black gyr but far from exceptional! its definatly not a grey. just my opinion of course?

[Barbary Boy]

This is what I call a black gyr, bred by john lejeune.
that is an exceptional black gyr providing of course its not a hybred?

[Dan Paradis]

that is an exceptional black gyr providing of course its not a hybred?

...that's what I'm affraid too...can readily see some peregrine in it...

[Barbary Boy]

...that's what I'm affraid too...can readily see some peregrine in it...
this is the problem, ive seen plenty of gyrs that people dont think are pure and others with a bit of a mixture that people believe to be fabulous pure breds. who the hell knows? i certainly dont.

[Matthew Patching]

that is an exceptional black gyr providing of course its not a hybred?

I can assure you that I wouldnt have posted the pic IF I didnt think that it was pure!

from what I am told by a very well known breeder in england, basicaly if the bird has a pure black front then it isnt a pure gyr, if the front in mottled in its first year then its a gyr.

[Hatchero]

Now THAT is a black gyr or a real nice hybrid. a person i know had a black gyrkin that came from a pair that i had two birds from. the black gyrkin was called Tar for the obvious reason and it looked much like the bird in the picture as an immature. as an adult it is still very dark almost like an adult Aleutian peales with tear drops. that bird formed the basis of konkels black birds and a black female also from that pair that i raised formed the foundation for many of the other breeders of black gyrs. what is odd is that i also had a silver that came from that pair--go figure.
jim

[Dan Paradis]

any pics of adult PURE black Gyrs ? ..captive bred or wild

[Matthew Patching]

Now THAT is a black gyr or a real nice hybrid. a person i know had a black gyrkin that came from a pair that i had two birds from. the black gyrkin was called Tar for the obvious reason and it looked much like the bird in the picture as an immature. as an adult it is still very dark almost like an adult Aleutian peales with tear drops. that bird formed the basis of konkels black birds and a black female also from that pair that i raised formed the foundation for many of the other breeders of black gyrs. what is odd is that i also had a silver that came from that pair--go figure.
jim

At a place I used to work we used to have a silver pair that repeatedly threw one or 2 whites each year.

Here is some more pics.

[Matthew Patching]

didnt mean to post the same pic twice.

here is the one I meant to post.

[Trebor]

Hi Dan

I had a black 50/50 gyr/saker, with mottled front, black all over back and wings, some people thought it was a gyr.
I am just buying a white female and siver male, I hope they are pure,you can only go on the paper work.
Any pictures of whites and silver's in mature and immature would be great.

All the best
Rob

[Mark Moglich]

Dan,
Thats a Grey gyr, on the other hand the real black I suspect is hybrid.As adults they never are as black but still should be black. I like the whites more for the reason they get whiter with age

Mark Moglich

[Trebor]

Hi Mark

Any good pictures of silvers and whites, I would be very appreciative.:supz:

Thanks

Rob

[Hatchero]

Dan,
Thats a Grey gyr, on the other hand the real black I suspect is hybrid.As adults they never are as black but still should be black. I like the whites more for the reason they get whiter with age

Mark Moglich

another thing i have noticed is that the black gyrs tend to be smaller. the whites seem to be bigger on average.
Jim

[Mark Moglich]

Rob
I'm on the road right now, go to my site for many pics of Gyrs

Americangyrs.com

[Trebor]

Mark

Thanks for that I will go to your site ,when you say you are on the road is that flying.

thanks
Rob

[Dan Paradis]

I think my first pic shows more of a dark Gyr than a grey...I have grey Gyrs and they are.. grey.. not brown or dark but light grey plain to see. Now is it considered a grey Gyr that is something we will find out later...

Now can someone show me a picture of a true so called black Gyrfalcon in adult plumage and again no bluff.. no hybrids. If it's a wild bird it is even better to credit

Dan

[HelenG]

Dan,
Check out John Lejeune's birds on his website.
http://www.falconscanada.com/site/Welcome.html
This opening page shows some really black gyrs, and he even has a section on black gyrs.
Notice on the front page he's also saying he's selling his stock, looks like he's retiring. Someones going to make themselves a nice investment!
Helen

[Dan Paradis]

Dan,
Check out John Lejeune's birds on his website.
http://www.falconscanada.com/site/Welcome.html
This opening page shows some really black gyrs, and he even has a section on black gyrs.
Notice on the front page he's also saying he's selling his stock, looks like he's retiring. Someones going to make themselves a nice investment!
Helen

Yes Helen it's a little bit about all that if I'm looking for other references and not specifically with captive bred birds (regarding black Gyrs), in fact I have a high interest in all Gyrs of any colors, shape and size as hunting birds but esthetically I do not find, personally, a normal grey to be ugly at all.

Thanks for the reference anyway Helen :supz:

Dan

[Dan Paradis]

here's a huge, dark grey female Gyrfalcon of my breeding stock

[HelenG]

in fact I have a high interest in all Gyrs of any colors, shape and size as hunting birds but esthetically I do not find, personally, a normal grey to be ugly at all.
Dan

I agree with you, I find colour variations fascinating and sometimes stunning, but the "normal" wild-type animals are always beautiful.
Your female looks gorgeous, a very rich, even colour!

Do "black" gyrs exist in the wild the same way white ones do, or is it predominantly a captive bred trait?

[Dan Paradis]

I agree with you, I find colour variations fascinating and sometimes stunning, but the "normal" wild-type animals are always beautiful.
Your female looks gorgeous, a very rich, even colour!

Do "black" gyrs exist in the wild the same way white ones do, or is it predominantly a captive bred trait?

This is also my concern. And if there is black Gyrs in the wild ..I want to see pictures of an adult black ! Then I'll make my own verdict on certain captive bred stock. Still I'm quite sure of the answer behind it.

The more ppl will put in here the more we will discover about true blacks, hopefuly

[Kitana]

Do "black" gyrs exist in the wild the same way white ones do, or is it predominantly a captive bred trait?

Well, if you take a look at a good ornithologic book like the Peterson or the Sibley, you cannot read anything about a black gyr. The 3 color variations that appear to be present in the wild are grey, white and dark, the dark one being a chocolate bird with speckling on the chest. Maybe european ornitho guides have different information?

[CanadaManada]

Helen,
Quite a few wild gyrs in Labrador would be classified as black.
Captive breeders seek to isolate a particular colour for marketing purposes, making black gyrs blacker, and so on.
Justin

[Dan Paradis]

Well, if you take a look at a good ornithologic book like the Peterson or the Sibley, you cannot read anything about a black gyr. The 3 color variations that appear to be present in the wild are grey, white and dark, the dark one being a chocolate bird with speckling on the chest. Maybe european ornitho guides have different information?

That's what I think it is about black Gyrs. The rest is either a dream or man made genes manipilations and.. hybridize add on

Prouve me wrong and I'll say it is so

Show me a wild adult black Gyr please

[Brian Sullivan]

Dan,

It is very simple, look at a color chart and see what black is and Gray looks like. Gyrfalcons are produced in the wild and captivity from all white to all black and every color inbetween. If you ever get a chance to view a large study skin collection you will see what I am talking about. If you get a chance to purchase or view a Book by Brian Wheeler by the title of "Raptors of Eastern North America" you will see a young wild super Black female and also an adult. These were taken in the wild and there is also super white ones.

The picture of the bird LeJuene bred is mine and is tested as a pure Gyr female and one of the Blackest ones ever made in Captivity. Look at Black Gyrs.com/ Danny Ertsgarrd project and you will see some super black birds. I just acquired a very large nice black adult female and will post some pictures of her later this week. Here is Black Gold as an Adult.

Your gray pair of Gyrfalcons look nice but wonder about the male. Your female looks to be pure but photographs are not alway a give a ture picture of the bird.

I have posted a few pictures the first is a Gray Gerkin-Black Gold-A pure super black female Gyrfalcons-some white Gyrs in my truck-Dark Grey passage female Gyrfalcons for all the experts out there.

[Dan Paradis]

Thanks Brian,

My pairs of Grey are pure no doubt about it, I have'nt sent a pic of my tiercels in here only females of different shades

Dan

[Brian Sullivan]

Thanks Brian,

My pairs of Grey are pure no doubt about it, I have'nt sent a pic of my tiercels in here only females of different shades

Dan


Hi Dan,
I was refering to a old post you did with a pair of birds. The female looked very nice and I could not see the male very well. I think you will really like the pictures Brian Wheeler took of wild Gyrfalcons. Some are Wintering birds near Ottawa.

I once saw some old pictures of birds (two pairs) from Labador that were as black as my female from LeJuene. Here is a picture of my very large Jerkin. He is sitting at around 63 oz.'s and I have had his DNA checked by two labs to make sure and both gave a certificate as him being a male. He is a freak of nature but it seems Gyrfalcons range from weight 850-2200 grams. There is also over lapping of sex's in the these weight 1100-1400 gram ranges. Most males are under 1400 grams fat wieght and some females down to 1100 grams. On average the largest are recorded in Iceland.

Brian

[Brian Sullivan]

Here is a stardard black female Gyrfalcon.

[Dan Paradis]

Here is a stardard black female Gyrfalcon.

Thanks Brian, makes sense, good pics thanks to share information !

I could see a Gyr crossing the sky very close to me where the bridges crosses the St-Lawrence river to get to Quebec city last month, it was the size of a tiercel and very dark from under. (Simply cant trap them legally in my province)

I'm on the "trot since a while" seeking for some very special whites.. I will contact you later for that matter anyway...your stock is amazing Brian, send more pics if you want :supz:

Dan

[Matthew Patching]

Yes Helen it's a little bit about all that if I'm looking for other references and not specifically with captive bred birds (regarding black Gyrs), in fact I have a high interest in all Gyrs of any colors, shape and size as hunting birds but esthetically I do not find, personally, a normal grey to be ugly at all.

Thanks for the reference anyway Helen :supz:

Dan

So Helen gets a thank-you for posting links to the same pic I have put up of a balck gyr, & I get questioned over its authenticity, nice!

[Dan Paradis]

So Helen gets a thank-you for posting links to the same pic I have put up of a balck gyr, & I get questioned over its authenticity, nice!

GEEEsSS..Sorry Matt Thanks alot for your input :supz: did'nt meant that (just missing my job to reply promptly on that) in the fire of action if I can say :lol:

Send more pics if you find any !

Dan

[Dan Paradis]

one of my grey tiercels close-up

[Matthew Patching]

GEEEsSS..Sorry Matt Thanks alot for your input :supz: did'nt meant that (just missing my job to reply promptly on that) in the fire of action if I can say :lol:

Send more pics if you find any !

Dan

I decided to google, 'black wild Gyr falcon' it came up with the same wild hacked ones that are in one of the pics that I put up.

So I treid 'wild black gyr', same pic, so I guesse that they dont realy exist. lol

[Judd Casper]

Here is a stardard black female Gyrfalcon.Now that is what I would call a black gyr, give me one of those over those white things any day of the week even if they are smaller ......size isn't everything and even a black Jerkin could handle any game bird we have over here.

Sam

[Shaun Byrne]

Dan,
Thats a Grey gyr, on the other hand the real black I suspect is hybrid.As adults they never are as black but still should be black. I like the whites more for the reason they get whiter with age

Mark Moglich

Dont need much more of an expert opinion than that:supz:

[Shaun Byrne]

Nice birds Dan, I would say the first one is a darkish grey from what I have seen.

[Casper]

This is what I call a black gyr, bred by john lejeune.

This is a hybrid without doubt, but a cracker. The first is a grey.

[Matthew Patching]

This is a hybrid without doubt, but a cracker. The first is a grey.

Not being funny mate, but you are wrong!

[Casper]

Not being funny mate, but you are wrong!

Not being funny mate, but you are wrong!!!!!:rolleyes:

[OutHawkn]

I cant say if its a hybrid or not personally. Even after a lifetime of looking at birds I find some pure birds look like hybrids and some hybrids look like pure. Only way i know of for sure is to send out a blood sample............JMO

[Ben Wallace]

Here is a stardard black female Gyrfalcon.

Hi there,
I guess it is pretty obvious what is black and what is grey now. Brian the falcon you posted is the mother of an imprint male I bought last year. She is not the blackest in Jon's L's project but has extremely high production, via natural copulation,....two cluthces of five with all 10 fertile,....and hatched,.....and sold.

I will post pictures of the jerkin's father and him as well later tonight. He calls that falcon "The Gentle One" He has a low nest box that she lays in. With that pair he can walk in, the male calmly goes to one side of the pen, then walks over to the female gyr on eggs and chicks,.....she does not move,.....then reaches under and pulls out an egg or chick, with only a few little nibbles. It is pretty amazing. But that's what you get when you do something for 40 years

Your,....."Black Gold" is stunning. I have seen one other gyr from his project that was equal in juvi plumage. However yours is definatly darker as an adult. I hope she goes this year. I love those two white males in the truck, have they kicked in yet?

I have also learned that from one photo, it is extremely hard to judge and pass comment on a falcon,....they can be taken or made to look one way or another. Good Hawking

Sincerely,
Ben Wallace.
www.shaheensolutions.com

[Moritz]

I think the question has been answered. But just my small input.
Hybrids can be blacker then pure breeds esp. the saker crosses, but to say that there are no pure black gyrs is crazy. It is an insult to all the breeders of good black gyrs, like john L, dan k, danny e, DK in Denmark, the Mueller lines, vic H and all the other smaller or bigger breeders of good qualety gyrs, that have line breed them for a long time.

Mo

[Dan Paradis]

Hi there,
I guess it is pretty obvious what is black and what is grey now. Brian the falcon you posted is the mother of an imprint male I bought last year. She is not the blackest in Jon's L's project but has extremely high production, via natural copulation,....two cluthces of five with all 10 fertile,....and hatched,.....and sold.

I will post pictures of the jerkin's father and him as well later tonight. He calls that falcon "The Gentle One" He has a low nest box that she lays in. With that pair he can walk in, the male calmly goes to one side of the pen, then walks over to the female gyr on eggs and chicks,.....she does not move,.....then reaches under and pulls out an egg or chick, with only a few little nibbles. It is pretty amazing. But that's what you get when you do something for 40 years

Your,....."Black Gold" is stunning. I have seen one other gyr from his project that was equal in juvi plumage. However yours is definatly darker as an adult. I hope she goes this year. I love those two white males in the truck, have they kicked in yet?

I have also learned that from one photo, it is extremely hard to judge and pass comment on a falcon,....they can be taken or made to look one way or another. Good Hawking

Sincerely,
Ben Wallace.
www.shaheensolutions.com

Ben

It is not so obvious, at least for me, as there is some well know Gyr breeders that will try to sell you a Gyr (like the one on my first pics) as a black Gyrfalcon. That is why I started this thread. Also I want to clarify and exclude, as much as possible, any hybrids from being considered (a black pure Gyr). I have had myself bad, really bad experiences in the past with a couple of Gyr breeders (locally) no need for more details on them...(dont worry it's no forum members)

I'll look for pure whites and pure blacks to my project soon. I'll try to wild harvest the birds in Quebec, legally, at first.............................I will succeed anyway as always

Dan

[CanadaManada]

Ben

I have had myself bad, really bad experiences in the past with a couple of Gyr breeders (locally) no need for more details on them...(dont worry it's no forum members)


Dan,
Those breeders wouldn't be located in Ontario, and also breed parakeets now, would they?

Justin

[Mark Moglich]

A friend in California purchased a black Jerkin in 07 for alot of money from a breeder in the farNorth in the Midwest in US. Hes a nice black bird but weighs 880 grams pig fat imprint and screams like a hybrid with that hi pitch. My buddy tried to get the breeder to take him back and was told its a gyr and I can't help you.
Mark

[Ben Wallace]

Hi there here are the pictures of the black imprint gyrkin I purchased last year. As stated before he is not the blackest, but I chose him based on parental production as well,.....very high.

Black gyrs do get lighter after there first molt, and for some reason,...although some will say otherwise the females seem to be at maturity darker than the males.

Sorry to hear that the falcon did not turn out as expected Dan,.....maybe she does have black genetics. Even the blackest ones throw dark greys sometimes. How old was she when you got her,......what does the parent stock look like? I really don't understand why sometimes falcons are misrepresented,....it does nothing but lower the reputation of the breeder and complicate future sales. Anyway,....you do have some nice blacks in Quebec. I look forward to hearing about it. Good hawking.

Sincerely,
Ben Wallace
www.shaheensolutions.com

[OutHawkn]

Hi there here are the pictures of the black imprint gyrkin I purchased last year. As stated before he is not the blackest, but I chose him based on parental production as well,.....very high.

Black gyrs do get lighter after there first molt, and for some reason,...although some will say otherwise the females seem to be at maturity darker than the males.

Sorry to hear that the falcon did not turn out as expected Dan,.....maybe she does have black genetics. Even the blackest ones throw dark greys sometimes. How old was she when you got her,......what does the parent stock look like? I really don't understand why sometimes falcons are misrepresented,....it does nothing but lower the reputation of the breeder and complicate future sales. Anyway,....you do have some nice blacks in Quebec. I look forward to hearing about it. Good hawking.

Sincerely,
Ben Wallace
www.shaheensolutions.com

Its hard to imagine that ball of feathers will one day be a fierce predator..Nice picture.

[Ben Wallace]

Here is the father of the above male imprint.

Sincerely,
Ben Wallace
www.shaheensolutions.com

[ArabianFalconer]

I always like to be on the safe side. White is the KING!! you can always tell if a white gyr is pure or not by its whiteness.. like what Sullivan has in his truck.. Boy that's white!! and quality white as well.. and when you buy it, the bird talks about its self about being pure.. !!

Faris

[Brian Sullivan]

Hi there,
I guess it is pretty obvious what is black and what is grey now. Brian the falcon you posted is the mother of an imprint male I bought last year. She is not the blackest in Jon's L's project but has extremely high production, via natural copulation,....two cluthces of five with all 10 fertile,....and hatched,.....and sold.

I will post pictures of the jerkin's father and him as well later tonight. He calls that falcon "The Gentle One" He has a low nest box that she lays in. With that pair he can walk in, the male calmly goes to one side of the pen, then walks over to the female gyr on eggs and chicks,.....she does not move,.....then reaches under and pulls out an egg or chick, with only a few little nibbles. It is pretty amazing. But that's what you get when you do something for 40 years

Your,....."Black Gold" is stunning. I have seen one other gyr from his project that was equal in juvi plumage. However yours is definatly darker as an adult. I hope she goes this year. I love those two white males in the truck, have they kicked in yet?

I have also learned that from one photo, it is extremely hard to judge and pass comment on a falcon,....they can be taken or made to look one way or another. Good Hawking

Sincerely,
Ben Wallace.
www.shaheensolutions.com

Hi Ben,

Yes, that line of John L's has been the most productive from all of his records I went over. I have my fingers crossed for this year. She will be 6 years old and most of this line has started at 5-7 years to start laying.

I have to agree with everybody on this post that it is so hard to buy quality Gyr stock and even trying to buy pure Peregrine subspieces can be just a difficult. The other real problem is how the birds are reared. Many are hand fed too long and then put back with the parents. Most of my first acquired Gyrfalcons were imprints because the odds were better getting one of these early and rear it into a good breeder. The natural birds will lay earlier if reared right.

Best, Brian

[Brian Sullivan]

Thanks Brian, makes sense, good pics thanks to share information !

I could see a Gyr crossing the sky very close to me where the bridges crosses the St-Lawrence river to get to Quebec city last month, it was the size of a tiercel and very dark from under. (Simply cant trap them legally in my province)

I'm on the "trot since a while" seeking for some very special whites.. I will contact you later for that matter anyway...your stock is amazing Brian, send more pics if you want :supz:

Dan

Hi Dan,

I hope you are able to take wild stock some day to breed from up there. It is very hard to find good out-crossed stock with good color. Most breeders have inbred the stock to get the extreme colors and then you get little weak looking Gyrfalcons that have great color but not the size and build we want in a good flying bird.

Best regards, Brian

[Brian Sullivan]

Here is the father of the above male imprint.

Sincerely,
Ben Wallace
www.shaheensolutions.com

Here is the father to "Black Gold" her mother passed on last year but her father is paired with a new female but not as black as her mother was.

[Brian Sullivan]

Here is the father to "Black Gold" her mother passed on last year but her father is paired with a new female but not as black as her mother was.


Sorry the photograph did not load and had to be re-sized here it is.

[Sophie]

this is what i call a black gyr

[Moritz]

here is a better picture of him. he is 100% pure, best bloodlines you can get.

[BlackFalcon]

A few gyr pics.
Black gyrkin I imprinted 4 years ogo.
Imprint black gyr.
Imprint black gyrkin.
Light grey/silver breeding gyrkin.
Imprint light grey/silver gyr.

[Dan Paradis]

Hi Moritz, here's my concern...

If you carefuly place this bird from a back view like on your pic.. and hood the bird... you get exaclty the same black bird :roll:

what do you think ?

Dan

[Brian Sullivan]

A few gyr pics.
Black gyrkin I imprinted 4 years ogo.
Imprint black gyr.
Imprint black gyrkin.
Light grey/silver breeding gyrkin.
Imprint light grey/silver gyr.

They all look to be American bred Gyrfalcons?? Just looking at the bands.

[Matthew Patching]

Not being funny mate, but you are wrong!!!!!:rolleyes:

Then I suggest you read a bit more carefully!




The picture of the bird LeJuene bred is mine and is tested as a pure Gyr female and one of the Blackest ones ever made in Captivity. Look at Black Gyrs.com/ Danny Ertsgarrd project and you will see some super black birds. I just acquired a very large nice black adult female and will post some pictures of her later this week. Here is Black Gold as an Adult.




If you know somthing to be true, then people back you up I would suggest that I know somthing that you dont! So next time read thingfs more carefully, instead of jumping in with both feet, this is how arguments start!

[Brian Sullivan]

Then I suggest you read a bit more carefully!



If you know somthing to be true, then people back you up I would suggest that I know somthing that you dont! So next time read thingfs more carefully, instead of jumping in with both feet, this is how arguments start!


Not into arguments! Just like to keep the truth going and facts out in the open.

[Matthew Patching]

Not into arguments! Just like to keep the truth going and facts out in the open.

Brian the comment wasnt aimed at you, sorry if you thought it was!

It was aimed at the other quote on the post, the one calling me a liar!

[Dan Paradis]

They all look to be American bred Gyrfalcons?? Just looking at the bands.

Again I'm not having a go at anyone but, I would like to know if the second pic of Blackfalcon is really a pure Gyr as it lookks more to be a hybrid gyr/peregrine to me ???

What do you say ? Am'I out to lunch ? or do I need spectacles :-|

Dan

[BlackFalcon]

[QUOTE=Dan Paradis;768435]Again I'm not having a go at anyone but, I would like to know if the second pic of Blackfalcon is really a pure Gyr as it lookks more to be a hybrid gyr/peregrine to me ???

What do you say ? Am'I out to lunch ? or do I need spectacles :-|

I don't know about "out to lunch" maybe just having a light snack :lol:
The bird in question was bred in the UK from stock brought in from the US, if the US breeders were telling the truth then this bird is pure, what can I say?
This is a 3/4 gyr 1/4 peregrine from the same breeder.

[Hatchero]

[QUOTE=Dan Paradis;768435]Again I'm not having a go at anyone but, I would like to know if the second pic of Blackfalcon is really a pure Gyr as it lookks more to be a hybrid gyr/peregrine to me ???

What do you say ? Am'I out to lunch ? or do I need spectacles :-|

I don't know about "out to lunch" maybe just having a light snack :lol:
The bird in question was bred in the UK from stock brought in from the US, if the US breeders were telling the truth then this bird is pure, what can I say?
This is a 3/4 gyr 1/4 peregrine from the same breeder.

and then there is the other way around, 3/4peregrine 1/4gyr. this one is a female i had a few years back:
http://photos.imageevent.com/teita/hawkinsafari/websize/Dsc00061.jpg
jim

[As The Falcon Her Bells]

Hi Moritz, here's my concern...

If you carefuly place this bird from a back view like on your pic.. and hood the bird... you get exaclty the same black bird :roll:

what do you think ?

Dan

Dan
the picture posted by Sophie and the picture posted by Moritz is the same falcon, so you can have a look at its head.
I have been told and have seen from experience that IN GENERAL female gyrs are blacker then males.
hybrids are always blacker then pure, and I would be reluctant to buy a completely "black" gyr as i would not be convinced it is pure.

I do think that selective breeding over a large number of years will produce the VERY ODD extreme colored gyrfalcon that you would not find in the wild. Examples are Mark Moglish (sorry for spelling) "freaky" white birds and John Lejune "freaky" black birds.

[Hatchero]

Dan
the picture posted by Sophie and the picture posted by Moritz is the same falcon, so you can have a look at its head.
I have been told and have seen from experience that IN GENERAL female gyrs are blacker then males.
hybrids are always blacker then pure, and I would be reluctant to buy a completely "black" gyr as i would not be convinced it is pure.

I do think that selective breeding over a large number of years will produce the VERY ODD extreme colored gyrfalcon that you would not find in the wild. Examples are Mark Moglish (sorry for spelling) "freaky" white birds and John Lejune "freaky" black birds.

i don't know about the "freaky" Lajune birds but as far as white birds go, the birds in the Moglich pics are not all that freaky. i have seen the pictures my friends have taken of the gyrs they trapped in Greenland over the last few years, pictures of dozens of incredibly white gyrs many of them as white or even whiter than the birds in Moglichs website. super white gyrs do occur in the wild in good numbers if you are in the right places.
Jim

[Casper]

Brian the comment wasnt aimed at you, sorry if you thought it was!

It was aimed at the other quote on the post, the one calling me a liar!

Can't remember calling anyone a liar , it was an opinion, read Mr. Southern's post. However if it is to be taken as D.N.A it must be 100% fact, end of. Oh can't recall you giving Mark Moglich a hard time on the same opinion, However i will sell you a black Gyr very, very cheap, and as you say don't jump in with both feet , have a think on your reply atb

[Matthew Patching]

Can't remember calling anyone a liar , it was an opinion, read Mr. Southern's post. However if it is to be taken as D.N.A it must be 100% fact, end of. Oh can't recall you giving Mark Moglich a hard time on the same opinion, However i will sell you a black Gyr very, very cheap, and as you say don't jump in with both feet , have a think on your reply atb

ok you were of the opinion that I was wrong, how this differs I dont know.

Mark didnt question me twice, where as you questioned me after the current owner of the bird had already confirmed that what I said was true.

I dont want a black, white, grey or any other colour gyr from anyone, at this moment in time. The next purebred falcon that I fly will be a barbary or shaheen at crows, then Im going to prove once and for all that lanners are capable of a full season at crows. Then I may buy a gyrkin for crows, but I already have a supplier for that, and im not bothered on colour either, a gyr is a gyr is a gyr.

[As The Falcon Her Bells]

i don't know about the "freaky" Lajune birds but as far as white birds go, the birds in the Moglich pics are not all that freaky. i have seen the pictures my friends have taken of the gyrs they trapped in Greenland over the last few years, pictures of dozens of incredibly white gyrs many of them as white or even whiter than the birds in Moglichs website. super white gyrs do occur in the wild in good numbers if you are in the right places.
Jim

Sorry I did not mean my choise of the word "freaky" as negative, rather the opposite, i meant a color you don't often come across in the wild, I have never seen a picture of a wild white gyrfalcon with no marks on its back at all, I seen them with very small black dotts like the one Mark posted earlier in this thread, but not like the one he breed with no dotts at all?

[OutHawkn]

and im not bothered on colour either, a gyr is a gyr is a gyr.

Well thats refreshing to know that someone else doesnt care about color.
a gyr is a gyr is a gyr:supz:

[Dan Paradis]

[QUOTE=Dan Paradis;768435]Again I'm not having a go at anyone but, I would like to know if the second pic of Blackfalcon is really a pure Gyr as it lookks more to be a hybrid gyr/peregrine to me ???

What do you say ? Am'I out to lunch ? or do I need spectacles :-|

I don't know about "out to lunch" maybe just having a light snack :lol:
The bird in question was bred in the UK from stock brought in from the US, if the US breeders were telling the truth then this bird is pure, what can I say?
This is a 3/4 gyr 1/4 peregrine from the same breeder.

No No Blackfalcon I was questionning myself...it was aim at me only ! you see ! Not being brutal towards you at all :supz: I like your pics and your comments are positive in this thread just like EVERYBODY esle here :supz:

As you can see 36 questions 36 answers 36 suspicion...

Dig it out guys.. and hybrids don't count

Dan

[Dan Paradis]

Dan
the picture posted by Sophie and the picture posted by Moritz is the same falcon, so you can have a look at its head.
I have been told and have seen from experience that IN GENERAL female gyrs are blacker then males.
hybrids are always blacker then pure, and I would be reluctant to buy a completely "black" gyr as i would not be convinced it is pure.
I do think that selective breeding over a large number of years will produce the VERY ODD extreme colored gyrfalcon that you would not find in the wild. Examples are Mark Moglish (sorry for spelling) "freaky" white birds and John Lejune "freaky" black birds.

You see I'm reluctant too ! What you've mentioned about the blackest Gyrs is a real concern to me.. and some other honest Gyrfalcon breeders think that too. I'm not saying there is no black Gyrfalcons but rather to find what is the normal average pure black wild Gyrfalcon and how it looks like.

I'll have to check for that book and pictures Brian suggested earlier unless someone has it and could send pics over ?

Remember guys... this is just a dicussion on a forum ok :lol:

[As The Falcon Her Bells]

You see I'm reluctant too ! What you've mentioned about the blackest Gyrs is a real concern to me.. and some other honest Gyrfalcon breeders think that too. I'm not saying there is no black Gyrfalcons but rather to find what is the normal average pure black wild Gyrfalcon and how it looks like.

I'll have to check for that book and pictures Brian suggested earlier unless someone has it and could send pics over ?

Remember guys... this is just a dicussion on a forum ok :lol:

I know what you mean, I do think there is some REALLY black pure gyrkins out there, not solid black, but proper nice black, that been selectively breed over many generations, however there is a couple of breeders who I can think of who have concentrated on pure black for that long to get the extreme black birds.
And I do think we will find blacker gyrs in captivity then in the wild now, due to above statement.
Its always been a problem to guarantee that European gyrs are indeed pure gyrs, since a lot of the germans diluted them so early.
I have no knowledge about the purity of American or Canadian gyrs.

[Siberia]

Have been reading the thread several times with a great interest.Because we do not have black gyrs in Russia was curious what is what.
I may confirm what Hatchero said that there are places on Earth where super white gyrs /it shall be the same with the super black ones too/ could be found quite often.There is a region in the extreme NE part of Russia where super white gyrs similar to the photos posted by Brian and Mark live in the wild.Such super white birds form about 5-10 % of the total population.I agree with Brian that collecting such birds will be of a help for enrichment of the high quallity gen pool.Though if we forget for a moment about the legal and moral aspects of a such collection it is my opinion this will be a hell of a task.Some years ago I spent nearly 3 weeks close to two eyries of Gyrs with the idea making some exclusive pictures.One of the pairs had a normal white female and a super white male.The other one consists of two super white parents.I was more than sure these pairs will have at least one super white ofspring.In the very end pair 1 finished with one grey and one probably light silver juv.Pair 2 had one grey and two normal white juveniles.So,following what Sara said, super white or super black gyrs shall be proportionally more numerous in focused on the plumage breeding projects.
By the way,because several times it was mentioned in this thread that DNA will prove if a specific Gyr is a hybrid or not,I may assure you that this is not correct.Any 3/4 Gyr hybrid with 1/4 of a Saker and a Lanner /probably it is the same regarding the Lagger/ produced in the right way may show under DNA test it is 100 % pure Gyr.While it is a hybrid in fact.Many large breeders/especially in Germany/ are aware of the fact and are magicians in this aspect.

[Dan Paradis]

Have been reading the thread several times with a great interest.Because we do not have black gyrs in Russia was curious what is what.
I may confirm what Hatchero said that there are places on Earth where super white gyrs /it shall be the same with the super black ones too/ could be found quite often.There is a region in the extreme NE part of Russia where super white gyrs similar to the photos posted by Brian and Mark live in the wild.Such super white birds form about 5-10 % of the total population.I agree with Brian that collecting such birds will be of a help for enrichment of the high quallity gen pool.Though if we forget for a moment about the legal and moral aspects of a such collection it is my opinion this will be a hell of a task.Some years ago I spent nearly 3 weeks close to two eyries of Gyrs with the idea making some exclusive pictures.One of the pairs had a normal white female and a super white male.The other one consists of two super white parents.I was more than sure these pairs will have at least one super white ofspring.In the very end pair 1 finished with one grey and one probably light silver juv.Pair 2 had one grey and two normal white juveniles.So,following what Sara said, super white or super black gyrs shall be proportionally more numerous in focused on the plumage breeding projects.
By the way,because several times it was mentioned in this thread that DNA will prove if a specific Gyr is a hybrid or not,I may assure you that this is not correct.Any 3/4 Gyr hybrid with 1/4 of a Saker and a Lanner /probably it is the same regarding the Lagger/ produced in the right way may show under DNA test it is 100 % pure Gyr.While it is a hybrid in fact.Many large breeders/especially in Germany/ are aware of the fact and are magicians in this aspect.

Good one Siberia :supz:

[Dan Paradis]

And an other tiercel of my breeding pairs, a different shade of grey to compare to the others...Dan

PS: yes I'm crazy for Gyrs...

[Brian Sullivan]

I posted earlier in one of my replies I saw a couple of photographs of two pairs taken from Labador many many years ago. These were as black as my super black female. I once received a phone call from a person in that part of the World and he told me he was working at a rehab center. He explained that they had black Gyrs that were way darker then even the black birds that Bob Berry was producing at the time. He sounded very honest and if anybody gets a chance to see the photographic book on Raptos I mentioned you will see some very nice colored wild Gyrfalcons.

[Greg]

Just read this thread for the first time. Have added a few pictures so here it is in black and white!

[SilverLeapers]

Hi Dan and All;

I have spent as much time as anyone you'll likely talk with in your life in Northern Labrador and have seen loads of gyrs up there. Never seen a "black" one in my life up there. Every shade of white, brown and grey you can think of but never a single "black one".

BTW don't animals tend to get bigger and whiter the farther one goes north? Not smaller and blacker...hint hint.:yawinkle:

Photo is of Saglek Fjord, Arctic Labrador, Canada.
http://home.thezone.net/%7Ecanada/saglek.jpg

[Tacatanach]

Hi Dan and All;
BTW don't animals tend to get bigger and whiter the farther one goes north? Not smaller and blacker...hint hint.:yawinkle:



Yup, gotta love Bergmann's rule (bigger as you go north) and Gloger's rule (darker in more humid environments). Although if we were talking about island populations you might be able to make an arguemennt for the Foster's rule to be in play (larger animals are islands are smaller than mainland form while smaller animals get bigger) although in which way a population will be affected depends on the island.

[Dan Paradis]

Hi Dan and All;

I have spent as much time as anyone you'll likely talk with in your life in Northern Labrador and have seen loads of gyrs up there. Never seen a "black" one in my life up there. Every shade of white, brown and grey you can think of but never a single "black one".

BTW don't animals tend to get bigger and whiter the farther one goes north? Not smaller and blacker...hint hint.:yawinkle:

Photo is of Saglek Fjord, Arctic Labrador, Canada.
http://home.thezone.net/%7Ecanada/saglek.jpg

Bill your experience is a credit, also as a biologist you surely know what to look after when out in these grounds of Labrador...

There must be black birds somewhere though ??? not only in breeders backyard :confused:

My wife Wendy lived for about 5 years in Kuujjuaq (Fort Chimo, Québec) when she was younger (early 80's), her Dad (my step father infact) was a game warden there and worked on Operation Falcon at that time...He saw loads of Gyrfalcons along the Koksoaq River but no black birds there or even dark morphs.

OK I'm back later with it ...will send you pics of all that...I have to stop writing ... baby is calling me :yawinkle:

Dan

[Gyr]

Cracking thread and fantastic pics, just love gyrs:supz:

[Brian Sullivan]

Hi Dan and All;

I have spent as much time as anyone you'll likely talk with in your life in Northern Labrador and have seen loads of gyrs up there. Never seen a "black" one in my life up there. Every shade of white, brown and grey you can think of but never a single "black one".

BTW don't animals tend to get bigger and whiter the farther one goes north? Not smaller and blacker...hint hint.:yawinkle:

Photo is of Saglek Fjord, Arctic Labrador, Canada.
http://home.thezone.net/%7Ecanada/saglek.jpg

I was told-not facts!-That the blackest ones were in the Southern part of Labrador? I have seen pictures of very black one wintering in St. John.

[Brian Sullivan]

Here is a wintering Gyrfalcon in St. John. It is a pretty dark one but is very faded which happens in the wild.

[CanadaManada]

Here is a wintering Gyrfalcon in St. John. It is a pretty dark one but is very faded which happens in the wild.

Brian, you're right.
This bird was famous among birdwatchers because it spent the winter in the city (St. John's, St.John is in New Brunswick) and preyed upon the ducks wintering in Quidi Vidi Lake.
Just because guys aren't seeing them doesn't mean they aren't there.
http://www.surfbirds.com/cgi-bin/gallery/search2.cgi?species=Gyrfalcon
Scroll down and you'll see the St. John's pics.
Justin

[Siberia]

If there are a lot of fjords in Labrador you are lucky guys.Here we have to wait for 5 m deep snow to melt in the valleys first.And then walk and walk and walk....
The good news is no one doubts white and super white gyrs breed locally

[Mark Moglich]

TO GREG:

The pictures you posted is a white Gyr and a black gyr X Peregrine female in Dave Jamesions yard in RENO Nevada. I know because I live 30 miles from Jamesion and know his yard and the perches. I hope you were not referring the black bird as a pure gyr because its a 50% gyr x 50% Peregrine.

Mark Moglich

[SilverLeapers]

Here is a wintering Gyrfalcon in St. John. It is a pretty dark one but is very faded which happens in the wild.

Brian, you're right.
This bird was famous among birdwatchers because it spent the winter in the city (St. John's, St.John is in New Brunswick) and preyed upon the ducks wintering in Quidi Vidi Lake.
Just because guys aren't seeing them doesn't mean they aren't there.
http://www.surfbirds.com/cgi-bin/gallery/search2.cgi?species=Gyrfalcon
Scroll down and you'll see the St. John's pics.
Justin

Tis True Tis True Me Son...I was just one guy rambling around in the arctic of Labrador. :yawinkle:

And, I have seen them as "grey" up there as the St.John's bird but never "black" . A lot of gyrs overwinter in Newfoundland (whitish ones regularly hunt in/around Corner Brook, Fogo, etc). I've been in most of the Fjords during summer from Okak (see Tasuiyak L. on the map) to Nackvak (north of Saglek) and even some of them up to the Button Islands off Cape Childley (the very top of Labrador and off the map). I fly floats. Seen some peregrines in and around the Meale Mnts and Eagle River headwaters/highlands (ie south of Goose Bay on the map) but never a nesting/summering gyr....so I can't ad much to that. Northern/Arctic Labrador is loaded in them when the lemming cycle (every 4 years) and ptarmigan cycles (every 7-11 years) are both "up". egs late 80s, late 90s and (this coming summer?). I mean they are everywhere and have large broods (no suprise).

Seems to be more Peregrines than Gyrs in labrador?

Anyhow...good luck in your quest Dan. BTW...it'd cost ya about $100K to $500K in flying to get to all the places I've been up there and take more than a summer to do it. Never seen a "black" one. If you could ever convince Joe Brazil to give you a permit I can point out where to go to get some dark grey ones up there (but a charter to fly there is $1000s).

Dan,..Fort Chimo year round....brrrrrr! She must be part polar bear!

http://home.thezone.net/%7Ecanada/alab.gif

BTW good fishing in Labrador too

Brook Trout
http://www.eurekaoutdoors.nf.ca/igfa_trout_sm.jpg


Arctic Char
http://home.thezone.net/%7Ecanada/char_r1.jpg

[Mark Moglich]

THEY GIVE PERMITS TP TAKE GYRS ???? IS they any province that does for US citizens??? I think the answer is no just thought I'd ask

Mark Moglich

[SilverLeapers]

TO GREG:

The pictures you posted is a white Gyr and a black gyr X Peregrine female in Dave Jamesions yard in RENO Nevada. I know because I live 30 miles from Jamesion and know his yard and the perches. I hope you were not referring the black bird as a pure gyr because its a 50% gyr x 50% Peregrine.

Mark Moglich

Didn't someone say Bergmanns and Glogers rule in here somewhere:yawinkle: (me accepted to do PhD me son...edumacated newfie woodsman...yikes!)....you should see the giant near snow white barred owls in the Torngats (distribution maps are not always accurate if virtually NOBODY alive hangs out or has ever been there).

Top of Mnt Pingutsoak (Arctic Labrador) in the Torngat Mnts...I was 18 then....am 38 now...hint hint...when I said crawling around the arctic of Labrador...I meant it...lol...the "little hills" near my thigh in the picture are 2200 to 2400 feet straight up from near sea level. Both peregrines and gyr nesting in this valley (in peace).
http://www.eurekaoutdoors.nf.ca/pingutsoak_small.jpg

[SilverLeapers]

THEY GIVE PERMITS TP TAKE GYRS ???? IS they any province that does for US citizens??? I think the answer is no just thought I'd ask

Mark Moglich

I don't think you'll get a permit from Joe...shame really. If anyone ever does get access to those Lab gyrs legally...I hope its meeee!!!!:lol: I know of so many nesting sites it'd sicken ya! You can walk right up to one and reach down to the nest with a long handle dip net in a river ravine (no joke). Line up starts at the left! lol. Maybe Joe will give me a permit one day soon...who knows? If they do I'll likely be pretty hush hush about it...lol. Gyrs all around me in this photo...about 8 or 10 breeding pairs!...lol...also 3 pairs of peregrines, snowy owls, and barred owls!
http://www.eurekaoutdoors.nf.ca/bill_plane.jpg

[Mark Moglich]

WHO IS JOE??? You act as if its up to one person, your saying one person controls take of GYRS in Canada???? Whats his full name and title.

Mark Moglich

[Greg]

TO GREG:

The pictures you posted is a white Gyr and a black gyr X Peregrine female in Dave Jamesions yard in RENO Nevada. I know because I live 30 miles from Jamesion and know his yard and the perches. I hope you were not referring the black bird as a pure gyr because its a 50% gyr x 50% Peregrine.

Mark Moglich

I bow to your greater knowledge! You are right thats where I took the pictures and yes I did think they were pure. We were offered a BlackgyrXpere tiercel by dave when we were there and it was tiny compared to these two. I liked the white ones better myself!

[Mark Moglich]

Dear Greg,

I agree I like white Gyrs more also for many reasons. I think the black gyrs tend to get sick easier, the whites are larger usually, the white gets whiter with age and the black fades and theres so many gray birds on the border of black but not black that I'd rather just have a real black hybrid for falconry which tend to be blacker. Of course there always exceptions like Brian Sullivans female and some other examples but even with that I'd take a real white bird all day long over a super black. Just my own personal preference not saying its the best for everyone.

Mark Moglich

[Moritz]

regarding fort chimo, I was let to believe that it is the only area where black and white gyr breed together in pairs. Anyone know more about that? One of the first gyrkins I flew is half fortchimo bloodlines. He is silver in coloure and very good size.

Moritz

[Greg]

Dear Greg,

I agree I like white Gyrs more also for many reasons. I think the black gyrs tend to get sick easier, the whites are larger usually, the white gets whiter with age and the black fades and theres so many gray birds on the border of black but not black that I'd rather just have a real black hybrid for falconry which tend to be blacker. Of course there always exceptions like Brian Sullivans female and some other examples but even with that I'd take a real white bird all day long over a super black. Just my own personal preference not saying its the best for everyone.

Mark Moglich

I must say I was very impressed with Daves place, he gave me the tour! Those Gyrs on the lawn were incredible!

[SilverLeapers]

regarding fort chimo, I was let to believe that it is the only area where black and white gyr breed together in pairs. Anyone know more about that? One of the first gyrkins I flew is half fortchimo bloodlines. He is silver in coloure and very good size.

Moritz

I have seen brown and white and conversely grey and white breeding in northern lab....I seen no evidence of color preference among mating pairs....but again...I'm just a guy in the woods looking around.

[SilverLeapers]

WHO IS JOE??? You act as if its up to one person, your saying one person controls take of GYRS in Canada???? Whats his full name and title.

Mark Moglich

Hi Mark....you'd have to get permission from the NL Wildlife Division....attention Joe Brazil, Biologist Level V...as high as it gets...if you were a biologist in eastern Canada you'd know of him...good luck....you'll need it (don't waste the phone call). Maybe in the future we might be able to access a few wild birds...who knows?

[Fawkes]

Funny to hear so many people talk of John Lejeune. I am currently working for him.
Here's some of his birds he bred last summer - mostly blacks/darks this year.

[Fawkes]

And some of his breeding birds...

[Fawkes]

And a few more. I had some inspiration when we got some snow and was looking for shots to draw. White birds white snow.... :D

[Fawkes]

One more

[FredrickFogg]

Awesome pictures there Fawkes! :supz::supz::supz:

Fred

[As The Falcon Her Bells]

Certainly looks 100% pure to me...;)

[Pink_Eagle]

wow excellent pics, but the black gyr is the one me
they are just edible n so so pretty :heart::heart:

[SilverLeapers]

Awesome shots!....and that's "black"!:goodman:

[Fawkes]

I had some shots of the front of a couple of those blacks - hardly any spots - but it was too big and didnt have the energy to resize them :P Keep in mind that those are juvies. They never stay that black after moulting out.

[Ben Wallace]

Awesome pictures Em!! Great Action!! How is the art going and the gwp training?

Sincerely,
Ben Wallace

[Dan Paradis]

Dan,
Those breeders wouldn't be located in Ontario, and also breed parakeets now, would they?

Justin

Justin there will always be $$$ breeders everywhere...

I've never bought Gyrs from this place, did have some issue though with some other birds...

My #1 concern so far is to have in my mews/aviaries, pure bred Gyrfalcons with no inbreeding practice at all. Colours do not matter at all, as long as I can have and rely on a source of pure birds, as pure can be, that's all that matters for now...I will build the rest (colours) later...With Quebec origins Gyrfalcons

Dan

[CloudBase1664]

[QUOTE=Dan Paradis;770537]Justin there will always be $$$ breeders . Colours do not matter at all,

Dan
Some stunning pictures of gyrs in varius colours and after viewing them it is easy to understand why there is this fixation with colour, be it black or white.
At the end of the day, from a falconers' point of view ,when push comes to shove is it not purely cosmetic?
It has been mentioned more than once that dark hawks tend to err on the small side but this fact aside I wonder if experienced falconers/breeders like yourself or Clancy who have access to gyrs of all conformations and colours,when picking a young gyr to train as a gamehawk would favour one colour over another for anything other than looks.
I suspect a good hawk is a good colour:lol:

Dave

[Dan Paradis]

[QUOTE=Dan Paradis;770537]Justin there will always be $$$ breeders . Colours do not matter at all,

Dan
Some stunning pictures of gyrs in varius colours and after viewing them it is easy to understand why there is this fixation with colour, be it black or white.
At the end of the day, from a falconers' point of view ,when push comes to shove is it not purely cosmetic?
It has been mentioned more than once that dark hawks tend to err on the small side but this fact aside I wonder if experienced falconers/breeders like yourself or Clancy who have access to gyrs of all conformations and colours,when picking a young gyr to train as a gamehawk would favour one colour over another for anything other than looks.
I suspect a good hawk is a good colour:lol:

Dave

Yes Dave you're right

It's the Arabic market that sets the pace in all that frenzy of colours. Of course if the birds are hacked to a certain point it will add to their interest...

But also a matter of individual (personal) interest about it all

Colour means colour that's it. Whites tends to be bigger and dark ones tends to be smaller. There is also a matter of rarity associated.

[Greg]

A friend flys a Gyr X Barbary that is very pale, when waiting on it can be difficult to pick out in the sky. I think this is the one big draw back with the white ones (think I would be willing to risk it though!) Several years ago a large female white gyr landed on the cliffs above my house the sun was low and shone onto it so it shone like a beacon. Burned in my memory for ever!

[BHawk]

[QUOTE=CloudBase1664;770547]

Yes Dave you're right

It's the Arabic market that sets the pace in all that frenzy of colours. Of course if the birds are hacked to a certain point it will add to their interest...

But also a matter of individual (personal) interest about it all

Colour means colour that's it. Whites tends to be bigger and dark ones tends to be smaller. There is also a matter of rarity associated.

gyrs have always held a special fascination and reverence since time began, the Ottoman Sultan Beyazid captured the son of Philip the Bold, Duke of Burgundy, and turned down Philip's offer of 200,000 gold ducats for ransom. Instead, Beyazid wanted and was given something even more precious: twelve white gyrs.... pity the price went down :lol:

The birds were also used as offerings of peace. In 1276, the king of Norway sent eight grey and 3 white gyrs to Edward I as a sign of peace. Three hundred years later, in 1552, Czar Ivan IV and Queen Mary I exchanged a gyr and a pair of lions after Russia and England established diplomatic relations.

[Alf]

Yes but that was before you could get a bus to gyr land. :yawinkle: Alf.

[QUOTE=Dan Paradis;770562]

gyrs have always held a special fascination and reverence since time began, the Ottoman Sultan Beyazid captured the son of Philip the Bold, Duke of Burgundy, and turned down Philip's offer of 200,000 gold ducats for ransom. Instead, Beyazid wanted and was given something even more precious: twelve white gyrs.... pity the price went down :lol:

The birds were also used as offerings of peace. In 1276, the king of Norway sent eight grey and 3 white gyrs to Edward I as a sign of peace. Three hundred years later, in 1552, Czar Ivan IV and Queen Mary I exchanged a gyr and a pair of lions after Russia and England established diplomatic relations.

[Hatchero]

all this gyrfalcon color stuff is really sort of silly is it not? while spending a little quality time in the sun with my imprint gyrkin today i took a couple of pics. here is the phase of gyr i like--that would be the well adjusted phase:
http://photos.imageevent.com/teita/hawkinsafari/websize/DSC00006_1.JPG
http://photos.imageevent.com/teita/hawkinsafari/websize/DSC00007.JPG
and the best part is he kills grouse like a machine

[Mark Moglich]

Very nice Jerkin and yes everyone says who cares what color if it catches Grouse but really come on, if its pure white and catching Grouse or pure black and catching grouse lets be honest most would prefer it in a perfect World if they posessed such a bird. Your bird is a nice regular white and I'm in no way putting it to shame but I'd take a pure black or white anyday if he flew 1000 + feet and killed Sage Hens in the Winter( Not August or September to easy)

Mark Moglich

[Hatchero]

Very nice Jerkin and yes everyone says who cares what color if it catches Grouse but really come on, if its pure white and catching Grouse or pure black and catching grouse lets be honest most would prefer it in a perfect World if they posessed such a bird. Your bird is a nice regular white and I'm in no way putting it to shame but I'd take a pure black or white anyday if he flew 1000 + feet and killed Sage Hens in the Winter( Not August or September to easy)

Mark Moglich

i personaly don't care too much about the color. if it were not for winter sage grouse i would never own another gyr even if they are free--too much work to keep them flying well. gyrs are what i do when i am not flying my peregrines.
jim

[Dan Paradis]

Very nice Jerkin and yes everyone says who cares what color if it catches Grouse but really come on, if its pure white and catching Grouse or pure black and catching grouse lets be honest most would prefer it in a perfect World if they posessed such a bird. Your bird is a nice regular white and I'm in no way putting it to shame but I'd take a pure black or white anyday if he flew 1000 + feet and killed Sage Hens in the Winter( Not August or September to easy)

Mark Moglich

Well I tend to agree 100% with you Mark !

Jim life is too good with you :supz::lol:

[SilverLeapers]

If there are a lot of fjords in Labrador you are lucky guys.Here we have to wait for 5 m deep snow to melt in the valleys first.And then walk and walk and walk....
The good news is no one doubts white and super white gyrs breed locally

Stunning pics!

5m snow...wow!...I thought 2 or 3m (what we have on the ground at times) was bad! Ya simply gotta get one of these to try with your gyr falconry.:supz: Though the 60 degree hills might want avoiding if the falcon is on the backrest as the machine goes weightless in the turns at the top (great fun). This was in the Lewis Hills of the Blow-Me-Down Mountains (highest hills on the Island of Newfoundland, Canada). Note the short sleeves.
http://www.eurekaoutdoors.nf.ca/hill_climbing1_web.jpg

http://www.eurekaoutdoors.nf.ca/steep_hill_lewis_web.jpg

[Dan Paradis]

Kujjuaq, Ungava bay and the Torngats along Labrador border where lots of Gyrfalcons breed where sites were monitored by Rangers and Game Warden Officers (like James my step father and falconer) against some poachers/smugglers back in the 80's... one German and one Britain has been arrested and found guilty in that operation. Pics taken by James. First pic is about biologists tagging and e-collar Caribous to monitor migrations.

[Gos]

My Imprint male Gyr

[As The Falcon Her Bells]

[quote=CloudBase1664;770547]

Yes Dave you're right

It's the Arabic market that sets the pace in all that frenzy of colours. Of course if the birds are hacked to a certain point it will add to their interest...

But also a matter of individual (personal) interest about it all

Colour means colour that's it. Whites tends to be bigger and dark ones tends to be smaller. There is also a matter of rarity associated.

Its funny you know, a few years ago it was a color frenzy and a lot of what mattered for the arabs was the color on the bird. However the last few years it seems they are more interessted in the shape and the size, I even had a guy secifically ask me to please use grey males as seemen donators for the gyr/peregrines as he thinks the grey g/p are nicer looking......

[Q8e]

shouldnt really generalize imo. that was his preference it seems for the grey, just like im sure there are westerners who prefer white etc. from what i know size always has mattered, but to each his own. just like jim i think prefers whites, as you can see by his wonderful white gyr specimens from his pics.

its all down to the individual.

[Gos]

My Imprint male Gyr

the father to this bird was white gyr and the mother was a grey

[Gyr]

Hi Goss, he looks a stunner mate

[Mark Moglich]

i personaly don't care too much about the color. if it were not for winter sage grouse i would never own another gyr even if they are free--too much work to keep them flying well. gyrs are what i do when i am not flying my peregrines.
jim


You quoted"Gyrs too much to keep them flying well"!!!! WOW I've been flying gyrs 20 years and I could not disagree more. In fact I find them eaiser. I see you fly imprint gyrs I fly chamber gyrs so maybe thats the difference. Imprints are alot of work since they are so attached to their owners but I have seen some very good flying imprint gyrs as well.

Mark Moglich

[Hatchero]

You quoted"Gyrs too much to keep them flying well"!!!! WOW I've been flying gyrs 20 years and I could not disagree more. In fact I find them eaiser. I see you fly imprint gyrs I fly chamber gyrs so maybe thats the difference. Imprints are alot of work since they are so attached to their owners but I have seen some very good flying imprint gyrs as well.

Mark Moglich
well i claim no great experience with gyrs having flown my first one in '75 and having flown them them more or less ever since. i have not only flown imprints however, that just happens to be what i have today. i can say that i have seen a bunch of them flown over the years (my last one for 13 seasons) some of them flown by very experienced falconers and i have to say that i have seen way more mediocre ones than i have seen really great ones, so you must be on to something. some of the better flying ones i have seen tend to be ones that don't get flown on game much for whatever reason. i am always up for seeing a good one flown, maybe next season we can meet at one of the usual spots over there and kill off some grouse. :D
jim

[Gos]

more pics of my male imprint Gyr

[Dan Paradis]

nice Gerkin gos !:supz:

[Dan Paradis]

Nice size female Gyrfalcon 67oz---1870gr.

[HelenG]

Nice size female Gyrfalcon 67oz---1870gr.

This one of your breeding birds Dan?
Very nice!

[Natch]

[quote=Dan Paradis;770562]

Its funny you know, a few years ago it was a color frenzy and a lot of what mattered for the arabs was the color on the bird. However the last few years it seems they are more interessted in the shape and the size, I even had a guy secifically ask me to please use grey males as seemen donators for the gyr/peregrines as he thinks the grey g/p are nicer looking......sounds abit like finnish ****,,,,it,s not the size,it,s not color, it,s the way it looks at u both eye,s:lol:

[Schwartze]

Hi Dan,

This is the blackest wild adult gyrfalcon I have found pictures of. She was photographed in Boston, Massachusetts in December of 2002.

Steve

[Dan Paradis]

Steve you make my day with those pics :supz: I almost thought it was a crow :heart:

if you find others like those,, shoot them in please

Dan

[Schwartze]

Steve you make my day with those pics :supz: I almost thought it was a crow :heart:

if you find others like those,, shoot them in please

Dan

Hi Dan,

Somewhere I have a picture of the same bird in flight. I will try to find it for you.

I am curious about your gyrs. Are you able to tell me about their origins? Have you had much success breeding them? While the world of captive breeding is aiming, for the most part, for more size and color in gyrs, I have a particular desire to find a captive bred gyr more like what I see in the wild here in southern Alberta. There are a number of us here in the prairies who would be keen to fly a captive bred bird of similar dimensions to our wild gyrs. The breeders you've shown on this thread look like the wild gyrs we see out here, "bog, standard grey" as one wrote. Well, for my falconry, a "bog, standard grey" gyr, consistent with the size of the wild ones here, would be about the most fitting candidate for a falconry bird...if one prefers to fly a gyr.

Interested to hear more,

Steve

[Brian Sullivan]

To see the blackest Gyrfalcons photographed in the Wild look look at a copy of Brian K.Wheelers book on "Raptor of Eastern North America" . You can find it on Amazon.com. These black females both Adult and immature or some of the Blackest one I have seen photographed in the wild, near Ottawa. There also some nice white in there. It is interesting how much the Blacks fad in the Wild.

Here is the Blackest one I have ever been able to find in my mews.

Brian

[Mark Collins]

Again stunning,mark.

[Schwartze]

More shots of wild gyrs, this time two adults at opposite ends of the grey morph range found in southern Alberta.

[Schwartze]

Two Alberta juveniles, one dark grey, the other light.

[Schwartze]

Alberta grey female, same bird as a juvenile and in adult plumage.

[Dan Paradis]

Thank you so much Steve for those pics, interesting colour variations

If you have more you can drop them here :) they are appreciated greatly

Dan

[Dan Paradis]

To see the blackest Gyrfalcons photographed in the Wild look look at a copy of Brian K.Wheelers book on "Raptor of Eastern North America" . You can find it on Amazon.com. These black females both Adult and immature or some of the Blackest one I have seen photographed in the wild, near Ottawa. There also some nice white in there. It is interesting how much the Blacks fad in the Wild.

Here is the Blackest one I have ever been able to find in my mews.

Brian


Brian , realy nice black birds you got there :supz:

[Schwartze]

Intermewed passage gyrfalcons from Alberta (left) and Washington (right).

[Schwartze]

My first passage gyrfalcon, a 2003 bird that trapped at 1400 grams and flew at 1100 grams. She was marked like an average grey bird but all of the color in her plumage was unusually pale, making her look tan like a saker. I would have liked to see her in adult plumage. When I trapped her she had partridge feathers and blood caked to the undersides of both wings.

[Dan Paradis]

This one of your breeding birds Dan?
Very nice!

Yes Helen the second pair of grey Gyrs from the left in my chambers...

[Dan Paradis]

Hi Dan,

Somewhere I have a picture of the same bird in flight. I will try to find it for you.

I am curious about your gyrs. Are you able to tell me about their origins? Have you had much success breeding them? While the world of captive breeding is aiming, for the most part, for more size and color in gyrs, I have a particular desire to find a captive bred gyr more like what I see in the wild here in southern Alberta. There are a number of us here in the prairies who would be keen to fly a captive bred bird of similar dimensions to our wild gyrs. The breeders you've shown on this thread look like the wild gyrs we see out here, "bog, standard grey" as one wrote. Well, for my falconry, a "bog, standard grey" gyr, consistent with the size of the wild ones here, would be about the most fitting candidate for a falconry bird...if one prefers to fly a gyr.


Interested to hear more,

Steve

Steve the bog ole grey Gyr is for people like us. Nice strong bird at a fair price for falconry. The rest (blacks and whites) is for the ME or other breeders market in my wallet's opinion :lol: yes they breed well and are from Lejeune's origins.

Here is one of my Horny females :lol:

[Schwartze]

Steve the bog ole grey Gyr is for people like us. Nice strong bird at a fair price for falconry. The rest (blacks and whites) is for the ME or other breeders market in my wallet's opinion :lol: yes they breed well and are from Lejeune's origins.

Here is one of my Horny females :lol:


Hi Dan,

Do you have weights for the males and females you have produced? Pictures of youngsters? Let's see how they match up to the weights and appearances of our wild Alberta birds. I know that some of John's stock originates from the same region that our wild wintering gyrs do.

That's a fine looking female.

Here's a male I flew for 3 seasons. I'll bet he could fit in your female's pocket!

[Brian Sullivan]

Noticing the pictures of the fresh trapped Gyrfalcons I see some very disturbing things going on from the pictures. I do not want anyone to take this personal but I want to give some suggestions for the future if taking these amazing Falcons from the wild. This will increase your chances of having a Falcon that will not come down with a problem like Asper, bumble foot, and other stress related health problems.

1. First I would never sock a fresh caught Gyrfalcons-period. This is a very stressful thing to do to a Gyrfalcon and can Lead to all kinds of potential problems down the road. I alway carry extra hoods and Jesse's, swivel, and leashes while hunting and trapping. I put them in the Hood right away and jess them and allow them to sit the fist for a few minutes. I then put them on a car perch and start to drive. 9 out of 10 will just ride fine and that other 10 percent might bate once or twice but will also settle down. I do not keep them in any warm place to start with. This is stressing them way more then is ever needed.

2. I never leave them unhooded inside or outside on any kind of perch for Manning. This not a way to Mann them and all you get is them over heating and bating and they can do physical harm to them selfs. Keeping them in the hood and cool as long as needed is a much safer plan. Within a day or two you will start to see what level of tameness your new caught bird is expressing and that is the bar on which to set the speed of the Manning and the training process.

3. Passage Falcons are making it in the wild so it is a very responsible thing to do your best to maintain and fly them with some level of respect. The best gratification anyone Falconer can have is to fly and hunt one for a few years and release it back to the wild as good or as in better shape as they have come to you .

Submitted respectfully, Brian

[ArabianFalconer]

Right on,, Brian:supz:

Faris

Noticing the pictures of the fresh trapped Gyrfalcons I see some very disturbing things going on from the pictures. I do not want anyone to take this personal but I want to give some suggestions for the future if taking these amazing Falcons from the wild. This will increase your chances of having a Falcon that will not come down with a problem like Asper, bumble foot, and other stress related health problems.

1. First I would never sock a fresh caught Gyrfalcons-period. This is a very stressful thing to do to a Gyrfalcon and can Lead to all kinds of potential problems down the road. I alway carry extra hoods and Jesse's, swivel, and leashes while hunting and trapping. I put them in the Hood right away and jess them and allow them to sit the fist for a few minutes. I then put them on a car perch and start to drive. 9 out of 10 will just ride fine and that other 10 percent might bate once or twice but will also settle down. I do not keep them in any warm place to start with. This is stressing them way more then is ever needed.

2. I never leave them unhooded inside or outside on any kind of perch for Manning. This not a way to Mann them and all you get is them over heating and bating and they can do physical harm to them selfs. Keeping them in the hood and cool as long as needed is a much safer plan. Within a day or two you will start to see what level of tameness your new caught bird is expressing and that is the bar on which to set the speed of the Manning and the training process.

3. Passage Falcons are making it in the wild so it is a very responsible thing to do your best to maintain and fly them with some level of respect. The best gratification anyone Falconer can have is to fly and hunt one for a few years and release it back to the wild as good or as in better shape as they have come to you .

Submitted respectfully, Brian

[Dan Paradis]

This young male 08 was 1100gr. out of the chamber and females are in average between 1500 to 1850gr.(grey Gyrs) as you know,,, the whites are bigger

Dan

[Schwartze]

This young male 08 was 1100gr. out of the chamber and females are in average between 1500 to 1850gr.(grey Gyrs) as you know,,, the whites are bigger

Dan

Wow, Dan. That is about as close to our wild gyrkins as I've seen out of a breeding chamber. He looks perfect. I realize that big whites and blacks have a much bigger following, but a bird like that would offer about the best pallet to start with out here on the prairies for making a gamehawking gyrfalcon. Perhaps, if you keep making them, I'll be lucky enough to fly one some day.

Thanks for the picture!

Steve

[Dan Paradis]

...and one adult plumage tiercel I've flown last winter, can't recall weight but think it was around 1100's gr

Dan

[FalcoRusticolus]

[QUOTE=Brian Sullivan;960357]Noticing the pictures of the fresh trapped Gyrfalcons I see some very disturbing things going on from the pictures. I do not want anyone to take this personal but I want to give some suggestions for the future if taking these amazing Falcons from the wild.


Hi Brian,

I'm not sure what you find disturbing about the photos. I believe socking any falcon for a short time immediately after capture is the safest method for transporting a fresh trapped bird. A sock is used to minimize stress or injury to the bird. A falcon bouncing around on a truck perch after capture is surely at more risk of injury or feather damage than one placed hooded in a sock for a short time.

If 9 out of 10 birds sit comfortably hooded on a car perch after capture, it still means one bird might not. A fresh trapped bird thrashing around on the way home is better off restrained in a sock. Just my opinion.

Respectfully,

Jonny

[PerdixHunter]

Jonny,
I to thought the advice was a little surprising. And I identify with your post on the topic. What's the big difference between socking a prairie, peregrine, goshawk etc. from a gyrfalcon. I have trapped, socked and traveled for sometimes 4 or 5 hours with socked birds. Of course they are monitored with constant attention all the time. And I can HONESTLY say that those adventures included 25 or 30 gyrs that I either trapped or were party to. 100% safe arrival on all accounts. It would seem that with falconrys rich and well recorded history, that some very clear directives would stand out as to the "apparent" or "perceived" dangers of socking a "gyrfalcon". The worst I have experienced were bent feathers and mutes to clean up. All of which can occur in the immediate moments after socking anyway.
Allen
P.S. I do not feel my responsibility to handling a gyrfalcon any different than other raptors .... they are all "amazing" and deserve the highest level of care.

[Hatchero]

seel the bird, put some jesses on it and it will stand on the cadge like he was born there. worry about the hooding later.
jim

[ArabianFalconer]

Stress is responsible for 50% if not more of Asper in Gyrs! And socking does cause more stress then anything else for sure. I guess you wont be trapping more than 1 Gyr, right? so you definitely have the time to hood and tie down the bird in the field. I always do that with freshly trapped Peregrines and Sakers back home to avoid stress even though they don't get Asper from stress like a Gyr. And as long as you don't touch them, they will settle down in the car.

I have experienced Asper caused by stress in captive Gyrs, imagine how stressed a wild would be;)

Faris

Jonny,
I to thought the advice was a little surprising. And I identify with your post on the topic. What's the big difference between socking a prairie, peregrine, goshawk etc. from a gyrfalcon. I have trapped, socked and traveled for sometimes 4 or 5 hours with socked birds. Of course they are monitored with constant attention all the time. And I can HONESTLY say that those adventures included 25 or 30 gyrs that I either trapped or were party to. 100% safe arrival on all accounts. It would seem that with falconrys rich and well recorded history, that some very clear directives would stand out as to the "apparent" or "perceived" dangers of socking a "gyrfalcon". The worst I have experienced were bent feathers and mutes to clean up. All of which can occur in the immediate moments after socking anyway.
Allen
P.S. I do not feel my responsibility to handling a gyrfalcon any different than other raptors .... they are all "amazing" and deserve the highest level of care.

[PerdixHunter]

seel the bird, put some jesses on it and it will stand on the cadge like he was born there. worry about the hooding later.
jim

Jim,
I have to go along with your advice on this one also. It seems that the topic of sealing is not talked about as openly as it should be. I am in favor of the method provided the intended handler understands the basic intentions and advantages. I have received birds from Ed Pitcher over the years and they all came sealed. And I have observed Ed and D.Petersen work like a couple of surgeons on freshly recovered hacked birds..... the results at the immediate onset are nothing short of phenomenal. I heard it described many years ago as being somewhat "barbaric". I certainly believe some of our contemporaries here in NA should take a more objective view on the method. too quote?
".... I wouldn't have believed it if hadn't sealed it myself... "
It would be nice if we could solicit some info from the SE IDAHO boys regarding specifics. Good advice Jim.
Allen

[SakerJack]

I have no exp with trapping falcons so I have no opinion on what is best,, all have provided interesting points. BUT I have trained three rehab Bald eagles and have seeled two of them.
I think this practice is overlooked.

[Dan Paradis]

Imagine,,we can't show to people a tethered bird on a perch so imagine the idea of seeling one ! HA!

I am in favor of what works well and if seeling is working well or better than hooding I say go for it. As long you know how not to cause infections...

On the other hand you have those IDIOTS from rehab centres overhere having birds equiped with this "war hardware" and those guys all have high education like B sc. Master Degree, DMV. HHHAAAAaa!!!:rolleyes: I say this because they are overlooking us with their nose high up

BTW this bird has only one jess in that shakle

Cheers !

Dan

[Schwartze]

I'm sorry, but this anti-socking movement is completely bogus. Socking a fresh-caught gyrfalcon can be completely safe. That is not to say that a bird can not be hooded and ride home on a perch (I've done this with prairies and don't prefer it), but to claim that socking is highly stressful and suggesting that it can be a greater cause for aspergillosis or bumblefoot is absolutely WRONG. A passage gyrfalcon is subjected to much more stress DURING CAPTURE than it could ever be while hooded and calm in the safety of a thin nylon stocking. Time? What could possibly take less time and man-handling in the field than slipping on a hood and a sock? Overheating is the greatest stress on a fresh-caught winter passage gyrfalcon immediately following capture. By immobilizing the bird in a sock and keeping it cool with the air conditioning for the ride home, one completely eliminates the possibility of a bird becoming overactive and overheating as a result. Gyrs have an uncanny ability to overheat with hyperactivity even in the dead of winter. By not confining a fresh passager to a sock, you are affording them that opportunity!

I am blown away by the insinuation that the fresh-caught gyrs in my photos were subjected to undue levels of stress. The pale female in the first set of photos looks pretty unhappy. For those who wish to know, and others who like to make uneducated assumptions - that's how many passage gyrfalcons look at you the first time you remove the hood! All three of the passage birds I flew and submitted pictures of led healthy, active falconry careers and were returned to the wild with all of their faculties intact. All three were gamehawks, two were intermewed, and none of them became ill with aspergillosis, bumblefoot, or other diseases. The gyrkin even survived a horned owl attack (talk about stress!) and a long, challenging recovery before his release. Oh, and they all rode home on trapping day wearing a hood and a sock. Go figure.

[Dan Paradis]

I have no exp with trapping falcons so I have no opinion on what is best,, all have provided interesting points. BUT I have trained three rehab Bald eagles and have seeled two of them.
I think this practice is overlooked.

That is too funny anyway---A master hoodmaker seeling a bird is like a shoe-repairer bare footed....haha! ..or something like that :lol:

[SakerJack]

Good one Dan,, my first eagle would not take a hood and it was very difficult transporting her and carrying her she was 12 lbs.. I had to have an eagle that could hood and remember these were screwed up rehab eagles.. Seeling the eagle allowed me to hood at will and got them both used to the 'Feel" of being hooded,, I never had a problem hooding either of the two..

[Dan Paradis]

I'm sorry, but this anti-socking movement is completely bogus. Socking a fresh-caught gyrfalcon can be completely safe. That is not to say that a bird can not be hooded and ride home on a perch (I've done this with prairies and don't prefer it), but to claim that socking is highly stressful and suggesting that it can be a greater cause for aspergillosis or bumblefoot is absolutely WRONG. A passage gyrfalcon is subjected to much more stress DURING CAPTURE than it could ever be while hooded and calm in the safety of a thin nylon stocking. Time? What could possibly take less time and man-handling in the field than slipping on a hood and a sock? Overheating is the greatest stress on a fresh-caught winter passage gyrfalcon immediately following capture. By immobilizing the bird in a sock and keeping it cool with the air conditioning for the ride home, one completely eliminates the possibility of a bird becoming overactive and overheating as a result. Gyrs have an uncanny ability to overheat with hyperactivity even in the dead of winter. By not confining a fresh passager to a sock, you are affording them that opportunity!

I am blown away by the insinuation that the fresh-caught gyrs in my photos were subjected to undue levels of stress. The pale female in the first set of photos looks pretty unhappy. For those who wish to know, and others who like to make uneducated assumptions - that's how many passage gyrfalcons look at you the first time you remove the hood! All three of the passage birds I flew and submitted pictures of led healthy, active falconry careers and were returned to the wild with all of their faculties intact. All three were gamehawks, two were intermewed, and none of them became ill with aspergillosis, bumblefoot, or other diseases. The gyrkin even survived a horned owl attack (talk about stress!) and a long, challenging recovery before his release. Oh, and they all rode home on trapping day wearing a hood and a sock. Go figure.


Steve I understand your point and I agree, aswell as Brian's point. I think both views are as valid.

Dan

[Dan Paradis]

Good one Dan,, my first eagle would not take a hood and it was very difficult transporting her and carrying her she was 12 lbs.. I had to have an eagle that could hood and remember these were screwed up rehab eagles.. Seeling the eagle allowed me to hood at will and got them both used to the 'Feel" of being hooded,, I never had a problem hooding either of the two..

...well come on Thank me :lol:

yes Ken I understand and you have had people with you knowledgeable to help I presume

[Dan Paradis]

I have found you were too short of thanked post so I've let my self go :goodman:

OK enough jokes now, lets "guys talk" again lets kill something :supz:

[ArabianFalconer]

Come on buddy, its just opinions that we are sharing here. There is no picking on you intended and I am sorry if you thought that I did mean to offend you by any chance:oops: In fact, I have heard a lot about you being an excellent falconer and did things the way they are supposed to be done;)

We are all here to learn from others. Brian has a long experience with passage birds, and he flew tons of them and noticed that un-socking them is better for Gyrs.

You are one of the few lucky people in the world who get the chance to trap Gyrs and I am soooo jealous about that and thats one of the reasons why I am intending to be your new neighbor my friend. I have never trapped one except at hack and this is when I have noticed them being stressed out if not handled properly. I am sure you have more knowledge about passage Gyrs than I do, because you have flown them in their habitat while I have flown only few passage Russian females in the dessert:rolleyes:

Again, please don't take it seriously and cool down man, its below freezing out your way:lol:

Faris

I'm sorry, but this anti-socking movement is completely bogus. Socking a fresh-caught gyrfalcon can be completely safe. That is not to say that a bird can not be hooded and ride home on a perch (I've done this with prairies and don't prefer it), but to claim that socking is highly stressful and suggesting that it can be a greater cause for aspergillosis or bumblefoot is absolutely WRONG. A passage gyrfalcon is subjected to much more stress DURING CAPTURE than it could ever be while hooded and calm in the safety of a thin nylon stocking. Time? What could possibly take less time and man-handling in the field than slipping on a hood and a sock? Overheating is the greatest stress on a fresh-caught winter passage gyrfalcon immediately following capture. By immobilizing the bird in a sock and keeping it cool with the air conditioning for the ride home, one completely eliminates the possibility of a bird becoming overactive and overheating as a result. Gyrs have an uncanny ability to overheat with hyperactivity even in the dead of winter. By not confining a fresh passager to a sock, you are affording them that opportunity!

I am blown away by the insinuation that the fresh-caught gyrs in my photos were subjected to undue levels of stress. The pale female in the first set of photos looks pretty unhappy. For those who wish to know, and others who like to make uneducated assumptions - that's how many passage gyrfalcons look at you the first time you remove the hood! All three of the passage birds I flew and submitted pictures of led healthy, active falconry careers and were returned to the wild with all of their faculties intact. All three were gamehawks, two were intermewed, and none of them became ill with aspergillosis, bumblefoot, or other diseases. The gyrkin even survived a horned owl attack (talk about stress!) and a long, challenging recovery before his release. Oh, and they all rode home on trapping day wearing a hood and a sock. Go figure.

[Brian Sullivan]

[QUOTE=Brian Sullivan;960357]Noticing the pictures of the fresh trapped Gyrfalcons I see some very disturbing things going on from the pictures. I do not want anyone to take this personal but I want to give some suggestions for the future if taking these amazing Falcons from the wild.


Hi Brian,

I'm not sure what you find disturbing about the photos. I believe socking any falcon for a short time immediately after capture is the safest method for transporting a fresh trapped bird. A sock is used to minimize stress or injury to the bird. A falcon bouncing around on a truck perch after capture is surely at more risk of injury or feather damage than one placed hooded in a sock for a short time.

If 9 out of 10 birds sit comfortably hooded on a car perch after capture, it still means one bird might not. A fresh trapped bird thrashing around on the way home is better off restrained in a sock. Just my opinion.

Respectfully,

Jonny

Hi Jonny,

This response is long but I think it needs to be properly addressed. After corresponding to you by e mail it seems like you are looking for the best you can get out of Falconry.

The whole point of not restraining and stressing the bird is to keep it from from possible injury is not really a valued point. A bird riding on the perch is starting out on the right foot and if there is a bent feather from one bate I sure you would not worry about that with knowing how supple Gyrfalcons feathers are. Compared to having a Gyrfalcon die of Asper or bumble foot at a later date I think that would hold more interest. Putting the Peregrine or Prairie in a sock is not going to do much harm but why would anyone in their right mind take the chance with a Gyrfalcon? Why would you want to put way more stress then is needed and just let it ride home on the cadge? Seeling is also another good way to keep the stress level down because you do not have to worry about the hood coming off and even stressing the birds more.

Gyrfalcons get sick and die of STRESS affecting their immune system! This is simple logic.

Second to let the Gyrfalcon bate over and over on a indoor perch is also a very bad way to have success with a Gyrfalcon. I have seen many Gyrfalcons that were socked, allowed to bate, rushed into the air by cutting the weight to low, etc. and saw many of them parish and the same Falconers continue this over and over.

If you were a Hawk trapper by trade and trapping many birds and needed a way keep them without having proper equipment then that would make more sense but most Falconers can afford the basic equipment. Hawk trappers started socking Falcons not Falconers they keep their Falcons wearing hoods and sitting on perches after they get them from the trapper? Is it making sense?

This person stating he has trapped so many Gyrfalcons and has handled them with achievements I would be very shy of anything he might inject. This pour chap a Falconer of over 40 years on this Thread giving instruction is known by the Falconers in and around of my City of killing many Gyrfalcons and other Falcons by improper, care, housing, and handling.

I love to see people do well with their birds and sometimes just a little common sense and good diligent goes along way to better your Falconry.

If I was trapping a fresh Gyrfalcon for myself I would not sock it. I would not tie it to a pole or screen perch and let it bate with the hood off in my house. I would not try not to mann it in too short an order.

I would jesse it, put it on my cadge leave it OUT SIDE in the cool winter air. Slowly work it out of the Hood and try to not get any bates with the bird as possible. I would also put it on V-fend for the first two weeks-have never done this in the past but would now after receiving information about this Drug as a preventive. I would train it using the horse whispers approach and not force train the bird. I would enjoy the bird and hope it enjoyed me. I would hunt it with respect and train it to hunt clean with with it killing in the Sky- not in cover. I would not let it get bumble foot, Asper, fly it too close to cover just to get a kill and keep the flights as clean as possible. I would not perch it out in the yard without a weathering area unattended and let something kill it, I would always due my best to keep it safe until day of its return to the wild.

Accidents can happen to anyone and prevention can lead to long lives for Falcons.

I hope you find these facts helpful in your pursuit of flying Gyrfalcons.

Best regards, Brian

[Brian Sullivan]

Stress is responsible for 50% if not more of Asper in Gyrs! And socking does cause more stress then anything else for sure. I guess you wont be trapping more than 1 Gyr, right? so you definitely have the time to hood and tie down the bird in the field. I always do that with freshly trapped Peregrines and Sakers back home to avoid stress even though they don't get Asper from stress like a Gyr. And as long as you don't touch them, they will settle down in the car.

I have experienced Asper caused by stress in captive Gyrs, imagine how stressed a wild would be;)

Faris

Hi Faris,

A lot can be learned from Arab Falconry. I have witnessed the true magic from some of the handlers in the Middle East with their manning and training. As you can point out this is a culture of Falconers that have handled passage and haggard Falcons for thousands of years.

Some North American Falconers have the impression they know the best ways and only ways to mann, train, and hunt Falcons. These same Falconers go through birds like water falling into the sand.

If anyone can show or explain a better way I for one will give it a try. I like to better my Falconry and will not get bent out of shape if somebody is showing me a better way.

Best regards, Brian

[Brian Sullivan]

Sorry I high jacked this Thread and will try to put it back on course. I will try to bring up manning and different handling techniques on the Training Game Hawks Thread at a different time and try to include passage Falcons, where all can share their different methods.

Here is my new hat bird. He is a Jerkin that has half Alaska stock and the other half mostly Eastern Canada stock. He was bred by Mark Moglich of American Gyrs. He is one of the best imprint I have ever had. I must admit that Mark reared him for one year before I received him and he is better then anyone of my hat birds. This guy likes everyone, anytime, hat, or no hat he is going to give you some love.

[Schwartze]

Sorry I high jacked this Thread and will try to put it back on course.

Brian, before we get back to the topic you pulled us away from, I think you need to address the nasty remark you made regarding the pictures I posted of fresh-caught passage gyrfalcons. You said "noticing the pictures of the fresh trapped gyrfalcons I see some very disturbing things going on from the pictures". Explain to me what it is that you "see", which to you is such a clear display of disregard for the common values you outlined for maintenance of passage gyrfalcons. Obviously you don't like socking fresh passagers. Fine. But what about all that other nonsense?

Steve

[Brian Sullivan]

[QUOTE=schwartze;961605]Brian, before we get back to the topic you pulled us away from, I think you need to address the nasty remark you made regarding the pictures I posted of fresh-caught passage gyrfalcons. You said "noticing the pictures of the fresh trapped gyrfalcons I see some very disturbing things going on from the pictures". Explain to me what it is that you "see", which to you is such a clear display of disregard for the common values you outlined for maintenance of passage gyrfalcons. Obviously you don't like socking fresh passagers. Fine. But what about all that other nonsense?

Hi Steve,

I do not like keeping them inside and letting them bate. Do not take this personal as you seem to be doing.

(I) would not unhood a passage Gyrfalcon on a indoor perch unless it was will acclimatized and manned to the point of not bating. That means all Winter because this is usually when they are trapped and the weather in our neck of the woods does not change until March.

This Technique? I have seen used over and over by many Falconers. Many Gyrfalcons have met their fate unlike yours but were put in the same situation of being un hooded and put on perches.

I must of misunderstood your photo and I must be seeing something else here but not sure what that is? Maybe just a minute of doing this to get a picture? Maybe you can explain. The one picture she seems to be upset with mouth open and signs around her gape of drying from over breathing warm air and the other getting ready to bate? I call that body Language but I must be seeing something different? You can not always tell by a photograph so if I missed it, them I am sorry.

I am not going to pat you on your back if I see a Gyrfalcon you have in distress and I would hope you would do the same for me? Sorry but I see the facts for facts and hope it isn't just another Falconer getting bent out of shape when another is trying to explain maybe a better way.

I used to sock birds just like you, also because that is how I thought it was done and also taught by my older brothers.

One day back in 1980 when I trapped a beautiful Jerkin my Falconer friend who was there said; why are you going to put him in the sock? I replied that is the way it is done! He said; No! He asked me why would you want to stress him that way? I then gave in because this guy way amazing when handling passage Falcons and I put my pride aside and tried his method. I watched as the Jerkin road on the back seat of his Volkswagen Bus and thought why did I not think of that? He has kept me re-thinking ever since!

Best regards, Brian

[Schwartze]

Brian,

Thanks for clarifying. It turns out you simply made some inaccurate assumptions about he way I treated that passage gyrfalcon.

Nobody's perfect,

Steve

[Brian Sullivan]

Hi Steve,

Nobody, has the only and most prefect idea's on how to mann, train, and husbandry of Falcons but sharing can lead to some great discoveries for all.

I started a Game Hawking Thread about training "Game Hawks" . It was well received because many Falconers want to improve their Falconry. It is back up and if you want to share some idea's how you manned and trained your passage Gyrfalcons it would be welcomed..

Best regards, Brian

[Dan Paradis]

Sorry I high jacked this Thread and will try to put it back on course. I will try to bring up manning and different handling techniques on the Training Game Hawks Thread at a different time and try to include passage Falcons, where all can share their different methods.

Here is my new hat bird. He is a Jerkin that has half Alaska stock and the other half mostly Eastern Canada stock. He was bred by Mark Moglich of American Gyrs. He is one of the best imprint I have ever had. I must admit that Mark reared him for one year before I received him and he is better then anyone of my hat birds. This guy likes everyone, anytime, hat, or no hat he is going to give you some love.


Brian, this bird's colour as an adult is about what I'm looking for to give an idea. I like the tail color type (well,from this angle)

Dan

[Dan Paradis]

i might add something that i do with all my young falcons and tiercels. in the early going, after the young falcon is starting to take some pitch i will regularly take the bird out to some very open ground and bring along a bag full of English sparrows. you would be surprised at how well an Esparrow can fly when they are on the spot. the young falcons really put out the extra effort to try to catch the sparrows and thus get some real experience in working out their moves and footing. if done correctly the falcon almost never actually catches a sparrow and when it looks like the young falcon is getting close to the point where they are getting too good at it, it is time to move on in the development of the young falcon. starlings could be used as well, i suppose, but they tend to fly straight away rather than ring up and dodge as the Esparrow often will.
jim

Thanks Jim ! but you're in the wrong thread :lol: not easy getting older:weedman:

[Hatchero]

here is a pic of one of my gyrkins in his 11th season. this bird was quite dark as an immature but got lighter as the years went by. i had three birds from the pair that made this bird one was a black female one was a very dark gray gyrkin(the bird in the picture) and a light silverish female. this pair of gyrs was
composed of a silver female and a dirty white female. for those of you that are familiar with "Tar" (a foundation black gyrkin at Konkels) this bird is a full brother to that bird. i think it is pretty tricky when trying to sort out how the colors are going to come out when it comes to gyrs and some of their hybrids.
http://photos.imageevent.com/teita/hawkinsafari/websize/season%20begins%20003.jpg

[Brian Sullivan]

Brian, this bird's colour as an adult is about what I'm looking for to give an idea. I like the tail color type (well,from this angle)

Dan

Hi Dan,

These Alaska crossed birds with the Eastern Canadian Stock can come out very nice. I was able to make 7 out crossed Gyrfalcons from an Alaskan female this past season and they all ranged in color and size. Some of the females were very large 2000 grams plus and males like the one I am training over 40 oz.s flying weight. There was also some very small ones in the 32-34 flying weight range.

Here is a picture of "Goliath" and another normal sized Alaskan x Eastern Canada mix. This is shortly after recieving both of them. They came here with bad plumage and few health issues but are now fat, cleanly moulted, and with white mates. Fingers crossed!

Best regards, Brian

[Brian Sullivan]

Hi Jim,

Very interesting on the "Tar" background birds. I always wondered what pair made him and his siblings and could never get a straight answer. I will look up the pedigrees from Bob Berry that I have with all the founding birds the P-fund had and bred.

Was this bird small? I have one Hat Jerkin that is has Tar as a Grand parent on one side. Here is a picture of him.

Best regards, Brian

[Hatchero]

Hi Jim,

Very interesting on the "Tar" background birds. I always wondered what pair made him and his siblings and could never get a straight answer. I will look up the pedigrees from Bob Berry that I have with all the founding birds the P-fund had and bred.

Was this bird small? I have one Hat Jerkin that is has Tar as a Grand parent on one side. Here is a picture of him.

Best regards, Brian
Oddly,
this gyrkin was the largest gyrkin i have yet flown as he would fly at around 1200 grams, a great weight for a grouse hawk, which he certainly was. his very dark sister was also a big bird. that dark female went to Danny E. eventually and i think became an important part of his breeding program.
Jim

[Brian Sullivan]

Oddly,
this gyrkin was the largest gyrkin i have yet flown as he would fly at around 1200 grams, a great weight for a grouse hawk, which he certainly was. his very dark sister was also a big bird. that dark female went to Danny E. eventually and i think became an important part of his breeding program.
Jim

Wow, that is a big-gen. I have two birds (a falcon and Jerkin) from this female that came out of that female at Danny E. project. Both are Grey and have black siblings. They are on the upper range for size and have them paired with out crossed unrelated blacks and hope for size and color on some of the babies.

How did you like the big Jerkin for moves, style, and killing?

I have only flown one other large Jerkin over 40 oz.s but he is the father of the bird I am flying now and was just amazing in the air. I am hoping this youngest of him will turn out like in the near future.

Best regards, Brian

[Hatchero]

Wow, that is a big-gen. I have two birds (a falcon and Jerkin) from this female that came out of that female at Danny E. project. Both are Grey and have black siblings. They are on the upper range for size and have them paired with out crossed unrelated blacks and hope for size and color on some of the babies.

How did you like the big Jerkin for moves, style, and killing?

I have only flown one other large Jerkin over 40 oz.s but he is the father of the bird I am flying now and was just amazing in the air. I am hoping this youngest of him will turn out like in the near future.

Best regards, Brian

honestly,
i have flown gyrkins(imprints) that flew from 950grams up 1200 grams and everything in between i did not see much difference in flying ability that seemed to track to size of the bird. the biggest one was very fast and in the last season i flew him(12th season) he got to self hunting so i gave him away. too fast for his own good, like the females often are. i am not really a big fan of gyrs but i must say that the one i am flying now is completely different from all the others i have had--he actually likes to fly! usually it seems that you have to go through so much artifice with gyrs to get them to fly well(and be a decent game hawk) that it is hardly worth it. were it not for sage grouse hawking i would never have another as long as there are peregrines in the world.
Jim

[SakerJack]

Hi Dan,


Here is a picture of "Goliath" and another normal sized Alaskan x Eastern Canada mix. This is shortly after recieving both of them. They came here with bad plumage and few health issues but are now fat, cleanly moulted, and with white mates. Fingers crossed!

Best regards, Brian

Brian,, Ron Rollins told me about Goliath,, Damn that is a big falcon!!

[Schwartze]

here is a pic of one of my gyrkins in his 11th season. this bird was quite dark as an immature but got lighter as the years went by. i had three birds from the pair that made this bird one was a black female one was a very dark gray gyrkin(the bird in the picture) and a light silverish female. this pair of gyrs was
composed of a silver female and a dirty white female. for those of you that are familiar with "Tar" (a foundation black gyrkin at Konkels) this bird is a full brother to that bird. i think it is pretty tricky when trying to sort out how the colors are going to come out when it comes to gyrs and some of their hybrids.
http://photos.imageevent.com/teita/hawkinsafari/websize/season%20begins%20003.jpg


Hi Jim,

Is the bird in this picture the one that went over to Gerald?

Steve

[Dan Paradis]

Hi Dan,

These Alaska crossed birds with the Eastern Canadian Stock can come out very nice. I was able to make 7 out crossed Gyrfalcons from an Alaskan female this past season and they all ranged in color and size. Some of the females were very large 2000 grams plus and males like the one I am training over 40 oz.s flying weight. There was also some very small ones in the 32-34 flying weight range.

Here is a picture of "Goliath" and another normal sized Alaskan x Eastern Canada mix. This is shortly after recieving both of them. They came here with bad plumage and few health issues but are now fat, cleanly moulted, and with white mates. Fingers crossed!

Best regards, Brian

WOW !!! look at the size of it «G«...or is it because of the hobbit holding it ? :lol:(joke)

Seriously I want a bird from that pair ok

Cheers

Dan

[Brian Sullivan]

WOW !!! look at the size of it «G«...or is it because of the hobbit holding it ? :lol:(joke)

Seriously I want a bird from that pair ok

Cheers

Dan


Hi Dan,

Yes, Will the cable guy is short but "Goliath" is bigger then most female Gyrfalcons.

He came to my house a couple of years ago to help me handle a mass group of birds. He learned how to break a bird to the hood with out forcing it on and letting the bird bate. He really helped me out and pickup up everything that took me years to learn in just a few days. Have been friends ever since. He went home with a female Peregrine of that year. Got a call from him the other night and related a flight with his female Peregrine killing a Duck from 800 feet. Always happy when somebody does this well with their first Falcon.

If you want a bird out that Gyr pairing I will make sure you get a nice one.

Best regards, Brian

[Dan Paradis]

Hi Dan,

Yes, Will the cable guy is short but "Goliath" is bigger then most female Gyrfalcons.

He came to my house a couple of years ago to help me handle a mass group of birds. He learned how to break a bird to the hood with out forcing it on and letting the bird bate. He really helped me out and pickup up everything that took me years to learn in just a few days. Have been friends ever since. He went home with a female Peregrine of that year. Got a call from him the other night and related a flight with his female Peregrine killing a Duck from 800 feet. Always happy when somebody does this well with their first Falcon.

If you want a bird out that Gyr pairing I will make sure you get a nice one.

Best regards, Brian

He shure is a lucky guy that Will having Goliath on the fist !

Anyway do it like you can, I'm convinced you'll produce super nice birds again next season Brian :supz: Looking forward to it !

Dan

[Brian Sullivan]

Brian,, Ron Rollins told me about Goliath,, Damn that is a big falcon!!

Ron made a special hood and block for him. Even the biggest female hoods are too tight on him. He is truly a freak of nature if he is truly a male. The shape of his head and length of his tail lead me to believe he is a he. I will have him scoped soon to see if he has testes. All the reports (4) from two labs report he is a male, but as always a skeptic I will have the scoping done.

Brian

[Hatchero]

Hi Jim,

Is the bird in this picture the one that went over to Gerald?

Steve

same bird

[ArabianFalconer]

Hi Brian,

So the huge bird in the picture is a male? Is he the one that weighs 1600grams? If yes, how come a 2000 gram female's hood wont fit him? Does he have an exceptionally big head?

Faris

Ron made a special hood and block for him. Even the biggest female hoods are too tight on him. He is truly a freak of nature if he is truly a male. The shape of his head and length of his tail lead me to believe he is a he. I will have him scoped soon to see if he has testes. All the reports (4) from two labs report he is a male, but as always a skeptic I will have the scoping done.

Brian

[Brian Sullivan]

Hi Brian,

So the huge bird in the picture is a male? Is he the one that weighs 1600grams? If yes, how come a 2000 gram female's hood wont fit him? Does he have an exceptionally big head?

Faris

Hi Faris,

I believe the Jerkin heads are larger in proportion to their body? Square blocky heads compared to the longer skinnier head of the females.

I bought two hoods in Dubai a couple a fews years ago that I thought would not fit anything but they were made very well. The biggest one fit him to a tee. My puppy chewed it up so had to have Ron Rollins make a custom one.

Doug Pineo is making me another hood for the one I am flying now. He was surprised to see his biggest jerkin hood was too tight for him. Dutch hoods are little different then the Arabs ones in the fact they be very close to the right size. I think the Arab hoods are a little more forgiving.

Best regards, Brian

[ArabianFalconer]

Yes, you are right Arab hoods are. Thats why they come in 4 or 5 sizes only;)

I like Dutch hoods, but high quality Arabs which are hard to find, are more comfortable for the bird I guess especially when I leave the bird hooded overnight in hunting trips.

Do you have more pictures of Goliath other than the ones on the scale?

Faris
Hi Faris,

I believe the Jerkin heads are larger in proportion to their body? Square blocky heads compared to the longer skinnier head of the females.

I bought two hoods in Dubai a couple a fews years ago that I thought would not fit anything but they were made very well. The biggest one fit him to a tee. My puppy chewed it up so had to have Ron Rollins make a custom one.

Doug Pineo is making me another hood for the one I am flying now. He was surprised to see his biggest jerkin hood was too tight for him. Dutch hoods are little different then the Arabs ones in the fact they be very close to the right size. I think the Arab hoods are a little more forgiving.

Best regards, Brian

[HelenG]

Brian,
For those of us that don't know about this giant bird, would you mind giving us a quick rundown? Where did he come from, what's he doing now etc?
Thanks!

[HelenG]

Never mind! I did some fishing and found a thread you started about him!
So he just came from "normal" sized parents, are any of his siblings abnormally large?

[Brian Sullivan]

Brian,
For those of us that don't know about this giant bird, would you mind giving us a quick rundown? Where did he come from, what's he doing now etc?
Thanks!

He was bred from a pairing of out crossed white Gyrfalcons. The Father was a bird bred by Steve Sherrod. This bird was bred from Bob Berry genetics and a bird coming from Richard Gram from what I understand. He was a huge Jerkin by normal standards. The Mother is an Alaskan female from Brad Johnson and is now in Mark Moglich's Breeding project. Mark has made birds from this same female but with a different male. His father went to Kuwait but heard he was then moved to Austria?

He is now paired with a super white female and she seems to be pushing him around as female Gyrfalcons will do with re-pairing. Proir to that I had him with two other white Jerkins to see how they would respone to each other to see if he would act like a female. He seemed to be just another one of the guys.

When the weather breaks? Right now high winds and snow. I will take a few pictures of him with his mate.

Best regards, Brian

[HelenG]

He was bred from a pairing of out crossed white Gyrfalcons. The Father was a bird bred by Steve Sherrod. This bird was bred from Bob Berry genetics and a bird coming from Richard Gram from what I understand. He was a huge Jerkin by normal standards. The Mother is an Alaskan female from Brad Johnson and is now in Mark Moglich's Breeding project. Mark has made birds from this same female but with a different male. His father went to Kuwait but heard he was then moved to Austria?

He is now paired with a super white female and she seems to be pushing him around as female Gyrfalcons will do with re-pairing. Proir to that I had him with two other white Jerkins to see how they would respone to each other to see if he would act like a female. He seemed to be just another one of the guys.

When the weather breaks? Right now high winds and snow. I will take a few pictures of him with his mate.

Best regards, Brian

Thanks for the info Brian,
Sounds like a really special bird.
Good luck breeding him!
Helen

[Schwartze]

same bird

thought so

[Brian Sullivan]

I have been shown there is some very distinct differences from the Eastern Canada Gyrfalcons and our Northwest Alaskan and Canadian region Gyrfalcons. One is the shape of the primaries and length in proportion to the body. Bob Berry seems to have a better understanding of this. Also some of the Eastern Canadian Gyrfalcons are hunting off of sea cliffs as do Peregrines in front of the eyeire instead up behind for ptarmigan, Lemmings and Hares which is more typical of Desert Falcons. They are hunting sea birds and would imagine they are hunting much like Peales with short stoops out to sea? Would like to go to labodor and and camp out and watch an eyeire someday.

[Dan Paradis]

I have been shown there is some very distinct differences from the Eastern Canada Gyrfalcons and our Northwest Alaskan and Canadian region Gyrfalcons. One is the shape of the primaries and length in proportion to the body. Bob Berry seems to have a better understanding of this. Also some of the Eastern Canadian Gyrfalcons are hunting off of sea cliffs as do Peregrines in front of the eyeire instead up behind for ptarmigan, Lemmings and Hares which is more typical of Desert Falcons. They are hunting sea birds and would imagine they are hunting much like Peales with short stoops out to sea? Would like to go to labodor and and camp out and watch an eyeire someday.

Brian very interesting post ! If you contact Bill (SilverLeaper) on here he will bring you there..he is the best contact I know for Labrador (I think you know each other ..?)

Dan

[Brian Sullivan]

Brian very interesting post ! If you contact Bill (SilverLeaper) on here he will bring you there..he is the best contact I know for Labrador (I think you know each other ..?)

Dan

Hi Dan,

Bill has me down for a Caribou hunt in Labrador next year but all I really want to do is see the wild Gyrfalcons.

Brian

[Goran]

Can I join you?
Hi Dan,

Bill has me down for a Caribou hunt in Labrador next year but all I really want to do is see the wild Gyrfalcons.

Brian

[Dan Paradis]

Hi Dan,

Bill has me down for a Caribou hunt in Labrador next year but all I really want to do is see the wild Gyrfalcons.

Brian

Well..up to date this fall I have seen two grey Gyrs over my land at my center, and I know where two white Gyrfalcons are dwelling in Québec city at the moment. 8-)

(no I'm not going to trap them)

Dan

[Brian Sullivan]

Well..up to date this fall I have seen two grey Gyrs over my land at my center, and I know where two white Gyrfalcons are dwelling in Québec city at the moment. 8-)

(no I'm not going to trap them)

Dan

Get your camera out man and go film those whites for us all!

Brian

[Brian Sullivan]

Can I join you?

Contact Bill he is "Silverleapers" Do not wait too long if more people want to come he will be charging us for a Eco tour!

Best regards, Brian

[Goran]

Thanks.I did talk to Bill before he even started falconry.Take care.

[Brian Sullivan]

OK Dan, A break in the weather before the next snow. Took some photographs and here is a small sample of my breeders and different grades of whites. The picture of the two whites together is Goliath in the foreground.

Each picture is a different bird. I have smokier Peale's on the front and some more nice whites but the roofs on some rooms are snowed over and will have to get up to clean them off between shopping and hunting!

Best regards, Brian

[Brian Sullivan]

more

[Dan Paradis]

Brian ,,it is not complicated, I will definitely have birds from your splendid stock !!! :heart: We keep in touch :supz:

Dan

[CanadaManada]

Sweet Mother, Brian!
If only I still lived in Canada...

Justin

[Brian Sullivan]

Brian ,,it is not complicated, I will definitely have birds from your splendid stock !!! :heart: We keep in touch :supz:

Dan

Hi Dan, Yes not very complicated, Black is Black and White is White. I am a black and white person with out much Grey area:rolleyes:.

[Brian Sullivan]

Sweet Mother, Brian!
If only I still lived in Canada...

Justin

Justin, Move back and lets go GameHawking!

Brian:cool:

[Brian Sullivan]

Here is a Grey Jerkin I am sure is the highest ever paid price for an eyess Grey Jerkin. His father is a black from Labrador stock from Falcon Center in Germany crossed with Bob Berry's blackest female. He better throw blacks:!::!::!:

[Dan Paradis]

Hello, I decided a while ago to fly one of my older Gerkin again at crows. Today he flew at 990gr. he is not muscled up and fit yet but the snowmobile is still a must to track him down...

[HelenG]

Nice big looking bird Dan, I forget how big pure Gyrs are since I so rarely see them!
Curious about the snowmobile thing though...when you track him down, do you have a giant hood on the snowmobile to bring him back home in?

[Dan Paradis]

Nice big looking bird Dan, I forget how big pure Gyrs are since I so rarely see them!
Curious about the snowmobile thing though...when you track him down, do you have a giant hood on the snowmobile to bring him back home in?

no, simply hooded Helen.

[HelenG]

no, simply hooded Helen.

Cool!

[Richard]

no, simply hooded Helen.

bet the dogs fit trying to keep up tho :lol:

great looking bird though :)

[Dan Paradis]

nice cold weather to fly a Gyr today

[Brian Sullivan]

Dan was kind enough to start this thread awhile back and wanted to write about a female Gyrfalcon I produced this year as her color was very unique. She was produced from one of my Alaskan females. She was a roan color and to be honest I have not seen this color before and if I had not bred her I would have thought for sure she had Saker or Prairie in her background. I know very well the parents and there is only pure Gyr blood. Some people would have probably put her in the Silver class as far as color, but she was neither Silver or Grey..

I sold her to a client in the Middle East and he even called wanting to know if she has some other kind of "other" Falcon blood in her. I told him that I was being honest and she was reared from only pure Gyrfalcons. She was on the large size pushing the scale at around 1880 grams..

That is half the fun with breeding Gyrfalcons as you never know what colors you might make from each year to the next...

[Ben Wallace]

Dan was kind enough to start this thread awhile back and wanted to write about a female Gyrfalcon I produced this year as her color was very unique. She was produced from one of my Alaskan females. She was a roan color and to be honest I have not seen this color before and if I had not bred her I would have thought for sure she had Saker or Prairie in her background. I know very well the parents and there is only pure Gyr blood. Some people would have probably put her in the Silver class as far as color, but she was neither Silver or Grey..

I sold her to a client in the Middle East and he even called wanting to know if she has some other kind of "other" Falcon blood in her. I told him that I was being honest and she was reared from only pure Gyrfalcons. She was on the large size pushing the scale at around 1880 grams..

That is half the fun with breeding Gyrfalcons as you never know what colors you might make from each year to the next...

Very neat.

I know of a breeder that used to work in the M.E. that bred a male gyrfalcon that was dark grey on one side of its body,....and white on the other split right down the middle!! I have bugged him for pictures and he will try and dig them up.


Sincerely,
Ben Wallace

[Brian Sullivan]

Very neat.

I know of a breeder that used to work in the M.E. that bred a male gyrfalcon that was dark grey on one side of its body,....and white on the other split right down the middle!! I have bugged him for pictures and he will try and dig them up.


Sincerely,
Ben Wallace

Is that the 3/4 Gyr male I shipped to Sheikh Rashid in 1994 that was bred by Jeff King??

[Ben Wallace]

Is that the 3/4 Gyr male I shipped to Sheikh Rashid in 1994 that was bred by Jeff King??

Not sure. Sounds like I mixed up the storey. I'll ask Martin, it probably is the same one. I thought he bred it, but might be wrong. Do you have any pics,...I keep asking him but he has not found them?

The female 3/4 in Washington was picked up by the owner, thanks to your club sending up pics.

Sincerely,
Ben Wallace

[Brian Sullivan]

Not sure. Sounds like I mixed up the storey. I'll ask Martin, it probably is the same one. I thought he bred it, but might be wrong. Do you have any pics,...I keep asking him but he has not found them?

The female 3/4 in Washington was picked up by the owner, thanks to your club sending up pics.

Sincerely,
Ben Wallace

Hi Ben,

I do have some video of this color spilt Falcon and will see about posting.

Gald the owner has his "Gull Hawk" back!!

Brian

[Ben Wallace]

Hi Ben,

I do have some video of this color spilt Falcon and will see about posting.

Gald the owner has his "Gull Hawk" back!!

Brian

Actually spoke to Martin yesterday. He remembers the one you sent over. This one actually he bred, it was completely split down the middle black one side white the other. I think H. Waller ending up getting it. It actually was not pure gyr, but a white gyr/peregrine male X black gyr/saker female.


He asked had spoken to some other german breeders who have seen this phenomenon when extreme colors are crossed in gyrs. As well he said there is a photo of a similar wild gyrfalcon patternation in Gava bay in Fort Chimo, being held up by some researcher, not sure who.

Looking forward to the video.

Sincerely,
Ben Wallace

[GunFire]

this years black gyr 85634
85635

also what weight is average he is 2.4 1/2 at mo coming to lure should be free this week end

[Mark Moglich]

SNOW BALL comes to lure well 2Lb 8oz

[Mark Moglich]

Black???? Really??

this years black gyr 85634
85635

also what weight is average he is 2.4 1/2 at mo coming to lure should be free this week end

[Brian Sullivan]

Here is a small sample of Gyrfalcons that I have for breeding. Excuse the video work as it is a test run with a new camera...

The link: http://exposureroom.com/members/bsullivan.aspx/assets/badc6d4d1b904d2b970404c9faffd34c/

[Brian Sullivan]

Here is a imprint black female Gyrfalcon my friend is training. Today the weather was very warm and a little too nice.

A couple of breeding Jerkin's

[Brian Sullivan]

Just received my new machine to convert slides, negatives, and print into J pegs... Here is Tuka (Cira 1976?) at John Lejuene old house in Hope B.C... He was taken from the wild by john along with his sister Nanuk. The wild Gyrfalcons he had earlier then these were blacker and whiter then these I will post! I guess they were not made in Captivity and they do exist in the wild :roll:as nobody was making them until recent times....


I have many slides like this of old Gyrfalcons, trapping, hunting, study skins, art, etc... I will post more when I get time to make them digital..

[Brian Sullivan]

Here are some very old pictures of Gyrfalcons trapped.. most with the hands...first passage Jerkin in 1977 I trapped. Next one in the early 80's next a sub adult large female. Last turning loose I caught in a dig in.... Lots of Gyrfalcons in those days coming down from the North.....

[Dan Paradis]

Hey You're on fire Brian,, Keep them coming I love it

It is a slice of history heritage you're posting here :)

Dan

[Brian Sullivan]

Hi Dan,

I will try to get time to transfer more slides and negitives....

I also have get old photographs of Goshawks, Coopers, and Sharpies and will post them in the Shortwing section...

Brian

[Trebor]

Hi Dan,

I will try to get time to transfer more slides and negitives....

I also have get old photographs of Goshawks, Coopers, and Sharpies and will post them in the Shortwing section...

Brian

Brian send more of the old pictures there up my street.

Thanks

Rob

[Brian Sullivan]

Brian send more of the old pictures there up my street.

Thanks

Rob

Hi Rob,

These are not Gyrfalcons, but they are old pictures. I have not had time to transfer more slides, but will try in the near future..

The first is a Merlin Suzanne Franklin flew many years ago. Caught a lot of little birds and Snipe.

The second is me with a inter mewed imprint Coopers that was a Duck killing machine.

The last is a passage Yukon female Goshawk-flying weight 2 pounds 10 oz.s...

Brian

[Brian Sullivan]

Took time to take a few pictures the other day when the weather turned nice--Gyrfalcons all different birds

[Brian Sullivan]

More.....

[Brian Sullivan]

Youngesters...

[Пламен Пенев]

Very beautiful Gyrs!

[Trebor]

Youngesters...

Thanks for the old pictures, but I must say the gyrs are not bad.

Thanks
Rob

[Pavel Yakimov]

Nice bird on the right!

Как е Пацо? :) Не въздишай чак толкова. Има и по-добри птици ;)

[Пламен Пенев]

Nice bird on the right!

Как е Пацо? :) Не въздишай чак толкова. Има и по-добри птици ;)
SO-so.....:lol:.

Hand to feel ,eye to see.....:lol:

И тези си ги бива.

regards.

[Pavel Yakimov]

Guys, I would like to ask some of you if you could provide me with pictures of the most whitest and most blackest Gyr pics you have ever saw, possessed, hunt with etc.

Пацо, нима се оплакваш от своите птички?

[Brian Sullivan]

Guys, I would like to ask some of you if you could provide me with pictures of the most whitest and most blackest Gyr pics you have ever saw, possessed, hunt with etc.

Пацо, нима се оплакваш от своите птички?

Black and White Gyrfalcons.......

[Mark Collins]

Quality falcons there Brian,fantastic,mark.

[Ben Wallace]

Guys, I would like to ask some of you if you could provide me with pictures of the most whitest and most blackest Gyr pics you have ever saw, possessed, hunt with etc.

Пацо, нима се оплакваш от своите птички?

Here are a few!!

Sincerely,
Ben Wallace

[Ben Wallace]

Guys, I would like to ask some of you if you could provide me with pictures of the most whitest and most blackest Gyr pics you have ever saw, possessed, hunt with etc.

Пацо, нима се оплакваш от своите птички?

And more

Sincerely,
Ben Wallace

[Ben Wallace]

Guys, I would like to ask some of you if you could provide me with pictures of the most whitest and most blackest Gyr pics you have ever saw, possessed, hunt with etc.

Пацо, нима се оплакваш от своите птички?


Few more.

Sincerely,
Ben Wallace

[Ben Wallace]

Guys, I would like to ask some of you if you could provide me with pictures of the most whitest and most blackest Gyr pics you have ever saw, possessed, hunt with etc.

Пацо, нима се оплакваш от своите птички?

Some black's. Yes some need a cope,...done already.

Sincerely,
Ben Wallace

[Ben Wallace]

Last ones,......oh does anyone like greys!!

Sincerely,
Ben Wallace

[Brian Sullivan]

Look's like you got your Knokel birds?? Very nice..

[Ben Wallace]

Look's like you got your Knokel birds?? Very nice..

Not quite,...long time away. Some here. The blacks you know where. Your falcons are stunning. What are the lines of the immature male?

Sincerely,
Ben Wallace

[Schwartze]

Last ones,......oh does anyone like greys!!

Yep, I do!

Hey man is that your imprint gyrkin from Lejeune? If that's the bird, you sure must be happy with the way he turned out.

Hope all is well,

Steve

[Brian Sullivan]

Not quite,...long time away. Some here. The blacks you know where. Your falcons are stunning. What are the lines of the immature male?

Sincerely,
Ben Wallace

Which white, is the special one from our friend?

Those blacks you have Rock! I love the shape of both of them...

The immature male is from my Alaska stock out crossed..

[Marlon]

Hi us-breeders!
Hou breed this female?????
Rgd, MM.

[Castilla]

The same breeder than this? Take a look at the rings and jesses.
I think that in the UAE directly, they are breeding top quality overthere!

[Marlon]

hello castilla...
yes, both falcons have same rings!
But also boomble foots.....

[Ben Wallace]

Yep, I do!

Hey man is that your imprint gyrkin from Lejeune? If that's the bird, you sure must be happy with the way he turned out.

Hope all is well,

Steve

Nope,.....he is less black,...full cap and heavy markings.....but from the same parents as the super dark female in the pics. I think I sent you a pic of him earlier this year.

Good hawking.

Sincerely,
Ben Wallace

[Ben Wallace]

Hi us-breeders!
Hou breed this female?????
Rgd, MM.

Nope,.....no one in the US. That is known for sure.
Lucky you did not post the face of the person holding the falcon.
Privacy should be respected.

Best of luck in your upcoming breeding season.

Sincerely,
Ben Wallace

[Ben Wallace]

Which white, is the special one from our friend?

Those blacks you have Rock! I love the shape of both of them...

The immature male is from my Alaska stock out crossed..

No falcons up from the US yet. My first permit they sent me had 2 mistakes made by them!! Aiming for the end of Jan. It has been a bit of a nightmare really.

The blacks are different lejuene line,..and to be honest not mine. Although I have an order in for a pair from them,.....they only have 4yrs left till burnt. The super dark female,...looks average to small in the pics,...however I have held her in my hands. HUGE,....biggest strongest gyr or even falcon (hybrid), even unfit in the chamber,...I have held to date,.......had two gloves on,....she proceded to start to shred them like paper with her beak,..until I got her pinned properly.

AB incubators on the way!!

Very nice male,.....send him up,....lol!!!

Sincerely,
Ben Wallace

[Ben Wallace]

Just received my new machine to convert slides, negatives, and print into J pegs... Here is Tuka (Cira 1976?) at John Lejuene old house in Hope B.C... He was taken from the wild by john along with his sister Nanuk. The wild Gyrfalcons he had earlier then these were blacker and whiter then these I will post! I guess they were not made in Captivity and they do exist in the wild :roll:as nobody was making them until recent times....


I have many slides like this of old Gyrfalcons, trapping, hunting, study skins, art, etc... I will post more when I get time to make them digital..

Brian,

Believe it or not,...this male imprint jerkin is from Tuka,...last falcon produced by him. He is an average silver,...but throws superwhite gyr/peregrines and gyrs and other hybrids. Was the backbone of the J.H and M.L project forever. he is close to retirement but has a few left. i hope to put him into the female superwhite for a complete outcross.

First egg in 2.5 months,...lol

Sincerely,
Ben Wallace

[Brian Sullivan]

No falcons up from the US yet. My first permit they sent me had 2 mistakes made by them!! Aiming for the end of Jan. It has been a bit of a nightmare really.

The blacks are different lejuene line,..and to be honest not mine. Although I have an order in for a pair from them,.....they only have 4yrs left till burnt. The super dark female,...looks average to small in the pics,...however I have held her in my hands. HUGE,....biggest strongest gyr or even falcon (hybrid), even unfit in the chamber,...I have held to date,.......had two gloves on,....she proceded to start to shred them like paper with her beak,..until I got her pinned properly.

AB incubators on the way!!

Very nice male,.....send him up,....lol!!!

Sincerely,
Ben Wallace

Hi Ben,

That super black female is a cousin to my super Black female. She moulted out a lot lighter then mine and a little surprising as she was almost as dark. A very nice pair of Black none the less...Let me know if any are for sale next season?

I was referring to the one white you have from a Canadian breeder? Do you have any pictures of her? or was she in one in the pictures you posted.

Stop thinking about the next breeding season! Are you flying or are you another one of the breeders that only breeds and gave up on Falconry!!! If I were you I would be taking advantage of those passage Peales permits and would be sitting in a blind pulling a Pigeon on the North End of Vancouver Island this week!!!

Don't you just love when the permits take twice or three times as long should? Sometimes the birds are ready to breed by time they reach their new owner:rolleyes:

Brian

[Ben Wallace]

2000+ quail per month just took over my falconry!!:rolleyes:

There is always next year,.....to much time building,.....of course,.... because there is breeding season and building season,...lol.

2 super whites are from J.H. . The other (tail spread and hooded) is from back east.

Trades are always possible....

Sincerely,
Ben Wallace

[Brian Sullivan]

The same breeder than this? Take a look at the rings and jesses.
I think that in the UAE directly, they are breeding top quality overthere!

Very sad to see both these super white females with serve Bumble foot.

[PrinceOfTheWesternDesert]

is anyone in north america producing pure gyrs from wild trapped stock?

[Brian Sullivan]

is anyone in north america producing pure gyrs from wild trapped stock?

There was a wild Jerkin caught a few miles from my house that was producing a number of years ago in a breeding project, but died from Asper...

[Raul]

Another nice white one.

[Brian Sullivan]

I would like to see a Ultra or Super white with the center shafts on the decks white?? Anyone have a picture of one?

[Ben Wallace]

Another nice white one.

Russian stock?

[Ben Wallace]

I would like to see a Ultra or Super white with the center shafts on the decks white?? Anyone have a picture of one?

I have pictures of some,....but am not allowed to post them.

I am sure you have some as well

Sincerely,
Ben Wallace

[Fenlands Rescue]

Brian,

Believe it or not,...this male imprint jerkin is from Tuka,...last falcon produced by him. He is an average silver,...but throws superwhite gyr/peregrines and gyrs and other hybrids. Was the backbone of the J.H and M.L project forever. he is close to retirement but has a few left. i hope to put him into the female superwhite for a complete outcross.

First egg in 2.5 months,...lol

Sincerely,
Ben Wallace

Ben, I am one of those strange people that do not prefer the ultra white or very black. This boy is my ideal semen doner. Wish you could get semen over here to put in my two falcons.
George

[Ben Wallace]

Ben, I am one of those strange people that do not prefer the ultra white or very black. This boy is my ideal semen doner. Wish you could get semen over here to put in my two falcons.
George

Thanks,...he is a good ol boy,....loudest kid on the block here all year long. If you could only see how white this kid throws,...even in gyr/peregrines!! We have greys and silvers as well,...lol!!

Best of luck this upcoming season

Sincerely,
Ben Wallace

[Natch]

Another nice white one.do u bred gyr/per,

[Brian Sullivan]

Another nice white one.

What are they painting on the white Gyrfalcon?

[Pavel Yakimov]

Nice birds, Gentleman! Thank you!

Obviously, if one needs the darkest PURE Gyrs he has to import them from Canada or US.

Regarding the whitest I wouldn't like to ofend no one but so far my opinion is pro the Russian gyrs in total. Then comes the Northern Greenland.

What is the haviest in weight and whitest male you have heard of being produced riecently?

Regards,

Pavel

[SakerJack]

Nice birds, Gentleman! Thank you!

Obviously, if one needs the darkest PURE Gyrs he has to import them from Canada or US.

Regarding the whitest I wouldn't like to ofend no one but so far my opinion is pro the Russian gyrs in total. Then comes the Northern Greenland.

What is the haviest in weight and whitest male you have heard of being produced riecently?

Regards,

Pavel

Brian Sullivan should tell you about his gyr Goliath,, BIG BIRD!!

[Brian Sullivan]

Nice lighting yesterday, so took some pictures of Gyrs and Peregrines. Nice cold weather expressing the blume on the feathers....

[Brian Sullivan]

a couple more....

[Mark Collins]

Fine looking falcons Brian,mark.

[John Dumbar]

http://www.falconryforum.co.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=88970&stc=1&d=1261852095

Brian i really like your peals, but do not want to ask about them. What is the bird on attached link? some macropus cross? Probably no anatum?

[Brian Sullivan]

Hi John,

She is a Fijian (Nesoites) X Australian (Macropus) Peregrine. I love this cross. She is good sized for this cross and a great producer. Here are few more of two sister female Peales, Macropus female and a Peales x Fijian Peregrine....

Best regards, Brian


http://www.falconryforum.co.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=88970&stc=1&d=1261852095

Brian i really like your peals, but do not want to ask about them. What is the bird on attached link? some macropus cross? Probably no anatum?

[John Dumbar]

I do not know if there is anyone with more versatile collection of peregrines. The only thing You lack is some shaheens but i suppose there is no need to have BLSH having those australasian peregrines, though RNSH would be fine. What keeps You away of them. Dont interested or they do not suit environment?
Ps ill keep the pictures on my pc...
rgrds

[Brian Sullivan]

I do not know if there is anyone with more versatile collection of peregrines. The only thing You lack is some shaheens but i suppose there is no need to have BLSH having those australasian peregrines, though RNSH would be fine. What keeps You away of them. Dont interested or they do not suit environment?
Ps ill keep the pictures on my pc...
rgrds

Hi Michal,

In 1996 I brought in (1) captive bred breeding male Red Napped Shahin from Germany. It died in quarantine.:cry:

That same year I brought in (7) wild Red Napes from the Middle East. These birds and their offspring are now being bred here in the US and make up most of the existing stock. I had to give the 7 up to a good friend, Lester Boyd as there was a custody battle brewing for those birds. I spent a large amount of time and resources to get these birds for breeding, but had to part with them. Later on, I found out how low some Falconers can be and had one of my (friends?) write an appraisal on them trying to help somebody else extort money from me! The 7 were wild birds and can not be valued at any amount as they were wild birds and our Government does not allow wild birds to be sold, traded, or valued...

That is why I do not have Red Napes in my project! The whole experience left a bad taste in my mouth...

I am very happy with the Falcons I have now and breed, but if I could add some Black Shahin's someday, I could get excited about that....

Best regards, Brian

Here is a picture of a Falcon that was just returned to me this past Fall for breeding. She is beautiful and the highest flying female Peregrine I have witnessed. Have my fingers crossed for this season with her...The second picture is a group of birds taken out of (1) of my 4 weathering area's for cleaning.

[John Dumbar]

Very nice birds, shame that your hawking season isnt going as it used to before.
Thanks for photos and answer.
Best regards.
Michał

[Brian Sullivan]

Very nice birds, shame that your hawking season isnt going as it used to before.
Thanks for photos and answer.
Best regards.
Michał

Hi Michal,

That is Falconry and that is what makes if so ch alleging. The season is not over and we go until March, so plenty of days left to get some fun Hawking in...

Do you fly RNS?

Best regards, Brian

[John Dumbar]

Of course not :) I was just as you Americans say "by curious" heheh ?;).
ok stop joking...
I have to admit that many polish peregrines got a lot of pelegrinoides in them. Rusty heads and very pale in general, small & compact...mostly very aggresive, great birds indeed. Some males with FW around 500-550 take wild roosters 3 times larger and when i say wild i mean really wild. People from other countries (Czech especially) now see the difference between their freshly released birds and wild population. Cock pheasant can be challenging trophy in right conditions. But it's surely not a grouse...not to mention about your neverending plains of grass: longwingers dream.
Best rgrds
Michał

[Brian Sullivan]

Came across these old negatives of some Hybrids I made 20 years ago, so transfered them to jpegs.... The male is a 3/4 Gyr x 1/4 Peregrine bred from my old Peregrine x Gyr that is still alive. The larger female is a daughter out of this 3/4 male and a pure Fijian Peregrine. One of the most beautiful Hybrids I ever made. She was also an amazing flier...

[John Dumbar]

Spectacular, thank You for sharing.

[Pavel Yakimov]

I saw some really nice specimen!

Thank you too, Brian!

[Пламен Пенев]

All birds are amazing !!!!!!

What's the tiny wieght of tercel peal?

regards

[Brian Sullivan]

All birds are amazing !!!!!!

What's the tiny weight of tercel peal?

regards

Peale's Tiercel weights that are parent reared as follows: 20oz.'s-26.5... The average about 23oz.'s... That Tiercel was reared as an imprint, but tame hacked for 6 weeks. After 6 weeks he weighed 31.5 all muscled and fatten up. As an imprint he would have flown about 25 oz.s, but as a parent reared around 23oz.....

Best regards, Brian

[Pavel Yakimov]

Пацо, can you calculate the in grams, bro?

[Brian Sullivan]

Peale's Tiercel weights that are parent reared as follows: 20oz.'s-26.5... The average about 23oz.'s... That Tiercel was reared as an imprint, but tame hacked for 6 weeks. After 6 weeks he weighed 31.5 all muscled and fatten up. As an imprint he would have flown about 25 oz.s, but as a parent reared around 23oz.....

Best regards, Brian

31.5 oz.'s = 893 grams
26.5 oz.'s = 751 grams
25. oz.'s = 709 grams
23. oz.'s = 652 grams

[Пламен Пенев]

Peale's Tiercel weights that are parent reared as follows: 20oz.'s-26.5... The average about 23oz.'s... That Tiercel was reared as an imprint, but tame hacked for 6 weeks. After 6 weeks he weighed 31.5 all muscled and fatten up. As an imprint he would have flown about 25 oz.s, but as a parent reared around 23oz.....

Best regards, Brian

Thanks for answer !

[Brian Sullivan]

Thanks for answer !


Those weights were parent reared flying weights,except the 31.5 of course...

[AyrshireTaxidermy]

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w279/ayrshiretaxidermy/IMG_11131.jpg

Some interesting blocks there Brian, how are they made?

[Brian Sullivan]

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w279/ayrshiretaxidermy/IMG_11131.jpg

Some interesting blocks there Brian, how are they made?

They are very simple to make and hardly cost anything. I was suppose to take a photographs of them being built, but was too busy this last Summer and Fall. I will try to get time to do that in the next few days as I need some more for next season's crop of birds...

[AyrshireTaxidermy]

Thanks :supz:

[Пламен Пенев]

Mr.Sullivan, can you post some photos of young and adult peale's..... ?

Best regards.

[Brian Sullivan]

Mr.Sullivan, can you post some photos of young and adult peale's..... ?

Best regards.

No problem, just returned from a day of Hawking and will try to get them posted tonight.

Best regards, Brian

[Brian Sullivan]

Posted on wrong thread

[Brian Sullivan]

These are mostly old picture of a few Peale's. I will post tomorrow when I get time of my recent lines. Back in the day lots of the stock took 6-10 years to lay eggs, but in recent times there are lines that only take 2-4 years with 3 years the average...

[Brian Sullivan]

The first picture is a very large Peregrine x Gyr black male after his first moult. He is one of the largest I have ever seen. Many time the PG males are very large and the PG females are on the smaller side-really do not know what is going on there in the genetics..

The next is a very large black female GP.

Next my old female Peregrine x Gyr Hybrid "Deja" as a baby...


Next, a adult imprint female Fiji x Macropus female

N, a pure adult female imprint Macropus

[Пламен Пенев]

Great peale's and very nice hybrids!:supz::supz:Thanks for sharing!!

Happy new year !

[ReluctantTwitcher]

The first picture is a very large Peregrine x Gyr black male after his first moult. He is one of the largest I have ever seen. Many time the PG males are very large and the PG females are on the smaller side-really do not know what is going on there in the genetics..

The next is a very large black female GP.

Next my old female Peregrine x Gyr Hybrid "Deja" as a baby...


Next, a adult imprint female Fiji x Macropus female

N, a pure adult female imprint Macropus

Man, that Macropus female is one stocky bird! Seems like most of the Aussie peregrines I've seen (pictures only, mind you...)
are built like this, compact & chunky. First prize goes to Deja though IMO. :heart:

[Brian Sullivan]

Man, that Macropus female is one stocky bird! Seems like most of the Aussie peregrines I've seen (pictures only, mind you...)
are built like this, compact & chunky. First prize goes to Deja though IMO. :heart:

Deja is my favorite also...

[Pavel Yakimov]

Good birds, Brian! Good looking with good proportions! Congratulations!

[Brian Sullivan]

Great Peale's and very nice hybrids!:supz::supz:Thanks for sharing!!

Happy new year !

Thank you and a very Happy New Year to all!

Here are some pictures of my newest line of Peale's I breed. I did not breed any Peale's last season and only about 12 the year before. I mostly make Hybrids with my Peale's females, so only on certain years do I breed them in quantity..

[Пламен Пенев]

Thank you and a very Happy New Year to all!

Here are some pictures of my newest line of Peale's I breed. I did not breed any Peale's last season and only about 12 the year before. I mostly make Hybrids with my Peale's females, so only on certain years do I breed them in quantity..

Mr.Sullivan don't post other pics of peales...I am a man with а weak heart !:lol:

I never fly a peale's peregrine..and just wonder what is the diferent in his character?They look to me like gyrs...strong physique,wide wings and etc.Is it difficulty to get them hight in the sky?

Best regards

[Brian Sullivan]

Mr.Sullivan don't post other pics of peales...I am a man with а weak heart !:lol:

I never fly a peale's peregrine..and just wonder what is the different in his character?They look to me like gyrs...strong physique,wide wings and etc.Is it difficulty to get them hight in the sky?

Best regards

No more pictures then, we do not want you to have problems with your heart.

Peale's have developed a reputation of being at times on the nasty side. The real causes of this reputation came early on when breeders were hand feeding babies way to long and putting them back with the parents, so they were mentally confused and would be very difficult to handle in training.

If they are hatched under the parent or put back with in a few days most are as smooth as any other type of Peregrine or Falcon. There has been certain lines that were amazing high fliers with killing ability second to none. Some lines make better Game hawks and one particular line bred group were on the small side, but everyone that flew one, looked like a "Pro"..

Best regards, Brian

[Pavel Yakimov]

Good looking birds, Brian! Wonderfull!

I like very much the second picture. What is the weight of this beauty?

[Brian Sullivan]

Good locking birds, Brian! Wonderfull!

I like very much the second picture. What is the weight of this beauty?

Hi Pavel,

The second picture is of my new semen donor "Cape" he is very large and started producing semen at 2 years old.

Best regards, Brian

[Pavel Yakimov]

2 year? Well done! Can you share with me the weight of this stud?

[Brian Sullivan]

2 year? Well done! Can you share with me the weight of this stud?

He hadn't eaten in a day and half, so I thought I would weigh him today for you.... My old triple beam grams scale was damaged a few weeks ago and have been using a digital scale that is just worthless. I tried but the weight is jumping all around. I am picking up a new scale tomorrow and will get you a weight without any food in him. I know he is on the larger side, but he was not flown and an imprint so can not giving you a flying weight...

I have an assortment of adult Male Peale's and will put a few together in a photograph so you can see the differences..

Best regards, Brian

[Pavel Yakimov]

Perfect, Brian! Thank you for this!

I have one behavior question, in connection with my fellow countryman Пламен Пенев, if you don't mind - I hear from sometime that the Peales in particular have very serious temper and sometimes some of them could be even difficult in training. Also that the anatum is considered as "softer" by approach bird the the pealei. Can you tell me is there such difference really and if "yes" why there is such behaviour difference?

Thank you in advance!

[Eduardo]

Thank you and a very Happy New Year to all!

Here are some pictures of my newest line of Peale's I breed. I did not breed any Peale's last season and only about 12 the year before. I mostly make Hybrids with my Peale's females, so only on certain years do I breed them in quantity..

Hi brian,

Is there aleutian blood on the first falcon ?
Thanks
Eduardo

[Brian Sullivan]

Perfect, Brian! Thank you for this!

I have one behavior question, in connection with my fellow countryman Пламен Пенев, if you don't mind - I hear from sometime that the Peales in particular have very serious temper and sometimes some of them could be even difficult in training. Also that the anatum is considered as "softer" by approach bird the the pealei. Can you tell me is there such difference really and if "yes" why there is such behavior difference?

Thank you in advance!

Hi Pavel,

Most of the behavioral problems with Peales can be linked to how they were reared as babies. If hand fed to long before returning the parents you are asking for all kinds of problems during handling and training.

There are a few lines that can also be a little more handful to get going, but that is true with most other Falcons. They live in a very harsh and wet environment and to survive in these conditions comes a stronger personality. Pure Anatums on average are most stoic and are very smooth and express less of a personally. I have flown both Anatum and Peale's females during the same year and did not really see much of different in attitude except that Peale's could kill after the first stoop where as the Anatum was more inclined to kill only in the stoop. I have also flown mixed females of Anatum and Peale's.

One female Peales I was flying could fly down Ducks if she did not kill them in the stoop. I once saw her chase a Pintail like a Gyrfalcon up a 1000 feet and a couple miles out before catching it. This same Falcon also flew down a Sharp tail Grouse and knocked it out of air after a mile chase. Most Peregrines are not capable of doing either.

Peale's are very fast in level and climbing flight and also swallow stoops where they are king. They live in a water environment and have adapted to killing over water. They can also sit out in the open in none stop rain and stay dry like a duck..

[Brian Sullivan]

Hi brian,

Is there Aleutian blood on the first falcon ?
Thanks
Eduardo

Hi Eduardo,

That female is Half Aleutian and Half Queen Charlotte's.

The fourth picture down is a pure Male.

Best regards, Brian

[Pavel Yakimov]

Thank you, Brian!

Obviously, the first part of your answer I could relate with any chicks handling, being very essential.
From what you share I recognize very much in common with the callis' (callidus peregines - I start calling them like that for shorter). Also close to water and prey with ducks and geese. Powerful, beautiful and unbelievable!

Do you think that the callidus is more closer to the pealei then the scotish to the pealei?

[Brian Sullivan]

Thank you, Brian!

Obviously, the first part of your answer I could relate with any chicks handling, being very essential.
From what you share I recognize very much in common with the callis' (callidus peregines - I start calling them like that for shorter). Also close to water and prey with ducks and geese. Powerful, beautiful and unbelievable!

Do you think that the callidus is more closer to the pealei then the scotish to the pealei?

Hi Pavel,

I do not know much of anything about Calidus or Scottish "Peregrinus". I have seen Calidus in the Middle East, but never saw any fly. I have only seen a Tiecel Scottish x Peales fly and it was a bit of dud... That could of been the Falconer or the bird not really sure?

The Calidus sounds very interesting and would like to see one fly someday. They are classified as being just a little smaller then Peales, and I can only see comparisons to our "Tundrius" Peregrines in color and their migratory nature....

[Brian Sullivan]

I have been converting more slides and came across this picture taken in the late 60's or early 70's. This Black Shahin was paired with a female Peales as the Falconers that imported thought it was a male? The female Peale's ate it..

[Eduardo]

Hi Eduardo,

That female is Half Aleutian and Half Queen Charlotte's.

The fourth picture down is a pure Male.

Best regards, Brian

I thought the same.
Thanks Brian

[Pavel Yakimov]

Hi Pavel,

I do not know much of anything about Calidus or Scottish "Peregrinus". I have seen Calidus in the Middle East, but never saw any fly. I have only seen a Tiecel Scottish x Peales fly and it was a bit of dud... That could of been the Falconer or the bird not really sure?

The Calidus sounds very interesting and would like to see one fly someday. They are classified as being just a little smaller then Peales, and I can only see comparisons to our "Tundrius" Peregrines in color and their migratory nature....

Well, the calli's flight is amazing. The average callidus is bigger then tundrius but the light faze of the tundrius is a bit similar to the color of the callidus.
Regarding the size between peales and callidus, they are considered to be the biggest subspecies. But as far as I know it is difficult to say which one is the biggest, because the studies of both subspecies are made by different people. Still no one had the possibility to compare both species in one study. Hope soon somebody with serious ambitions will do it.

I have the pleasure to know just a bit and to watch sometimes flights of callidus. And I must tell you, it is really intriguing.

Regards

[Пламен Пенев]

Well, the calli's flight is amazing.

Regards

Which flight of the peregrine is't amazing, mr. Yakimov?!:lol:

Regards!!

[Pavel Yakimov]

The one which is not properly trained, my dear one! :))

But despite that you actually know how the calli's is flying, don't you?! :)

[Пламен Пенев]

The one which is not properly trained, my dear one! :))

But despite that you actually know how the calli's is flying, don't you?! :)

Somewhere I have seen,you are right.

[Schwartze]

Some shots of very dark wild gyrfalcons taken by photographers in Quebec and Wisconsin this winter.

[Pavel Yakimov]

...Beautiful...!

[Black Shaheen]

I have been converting more slides and came across this picture taken in the late 60's or early 70's. This Black Shahin was paired with a female Peales as the Falconers that imported thought it was a male? The female Peale's ate it..

Hllo Brian,

The photo of the Black Shaheen Is wery similar to this one I have. Do you have maybe some more photos from front?

Primoz
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm13/pbriskic/rniahin234.jpg
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm13/pbriskic/rniahin249.jpg

[Brian Sullivan]

Hi Primoz,

I think that is the only slide I had of her and in the past I gave away some real nice photographs of Black Shahins to enthusiasts.

Best regards, Brian

[Jaam]

Hi Brian, biggers gyrfalcons and of corse bigger and very nice pealeis.Congratulations. : Best regards jaam. Put more pics we are insatiables jjejeje:yawinkle:

[FKeefe]

Here is a white from Reno and a silver from Konkel side by side.
http://i940.photobucket.com/albums/ad246/fjk57/9-24-201063415PM.jpg?t=1290639924 (javascript:void(0);)

[Marlon]

.....

[MattSpar]

here is a better picture of him. he is 100% pure, best bloodlines you can get.

Best for what?

[Brian Sullivan]

.....

Looks comparatively like a nice Alaskan Gyrfalcon, but the wings are much shorter then most Gyrfalcons?

[Marlon]

her is another pic where we can see the wing and tail in difference..
Regards, MM.
Brian, what kind of bloodline do you think it is?

[Greg]

Nice looking bird Marlon, is the front totally white?

[Marlon]

an front side....

[Greg]

Very nice, it's a shame they never stay that clean when you hunt with them!

[HawkFlyer]

now that is a very impressive WHITE GYR.:supz:

[Brian Sullivan]

an front side....

Beautiful!