Red tail or harris hawk for a begginer?

[Mojo]

hi every one!
i am absolute begginer and trying to buy myself a first bird. the choice narrowed to the male red tail or male harris hawk. i understand that harry is much calmer bird, seems easier to train, but beside bird, i need to train myself...also, i can see that everyone agrees that redtail is much more agressive..but that just might be a virtue?:)

so, for a begginer, elaborate your suggestions...

[Claire]

best thing to do is help in a centre untill you are sure what you want and are sure you are able to look after it or offer to help someone who has birds. be prepared to be doing the cleaning though lol

[Mojo]

yes...cleaning and carrying water buckets for seven years until my master decides that after all, i still don't deserve to be trained for a falconer!;) ha ha ha
what kind of centre are you talking about? the falconry centre in croatia? i've taken my falconry course..i am ready to rumble:)

[Coedhirion]

Harris every time. but not sure why you want a male, they can be a bit more 'free spirited' if you get things a bit wrong. Some Red Tails tend to be more laid back and appear to just like sitting around watching the view, not so good at following on. They can be aggresive when you want to remove a kill or feeding time, but there are good and bad in both, its how you handle them. Harris are more fun if you want a hunting partner as they are pretty clever in their feather brain way and can learn all kinds of tricks. Thats why they get used so often in displays. They do get bored quick if you dont put up quarry. If you have done the falconry course then find some locals who fly and get out with them and see exactly what is required in a days hawking. Its not just gettin the bird, its acres of bunny rich ground and a way of serving the bird with its quarry. Then knowing what to do when it catches one. Plus I expect you know the importance of a good pair of scales????

[Peregrynne]

If you really want to know what a red tail can do talk to spartheone. He has one right now that is taking everything in sight from what I understand.

With that being said, if you are trying to do it on your own then a harris should be the first one you look at. They can teach you everything a red tail can without a lot of the manning issues you will have with the red.

Let me also commend you for asking questions and seeking help from any source you can. It shows that you are actually thinking about this before just diving in.

Good luck and have a great time no matter which you end up choosing.

[Austin]

If you are a beginner then you need the experiences of catching your own bird and everthing that goes with it after it is caught. If you are afraid that a bird is going to be too wild or dangerous then you should re-consider the sport.It is about mastering the bird of prey and coming to the conclusion of a finished and trained bird that works at your will because you have mastered him. My wife wanted me to sponsor her, but I told her that she had to catch her own bird and train it, and if the first one was not the right bird of the day, then she was to catch another. Now, if you are going to start out then ask yourself two questions, Do I have the money to buy a HH and give it the needed attention that they require. or is there plenty of RT's and it would be a lot cheaper to catch one of them. If you catch a RT then pick one that is large, very white breasted, and at the catch site make sure it has large thick feet and toes. Take with you a pair of temporary jesses and anklets, and lease. Once the bird is caught take the hood off and see if the bird will come up on the glove with feathers raised and stare you right in the eye. If you find such a bird take it home before you know it, the bird will be eating out of your hand. 8)

[Peregrynne]

Austin,

Just a reminder here, if we are talking about falconry in other countries than ours, a lot of them are not allowed to catch their own birds. We are lucky that we get to do such a thing. Plus red tails are only native to north america, so in most places they can't be released to create a wild population. So the only thing that many can do is buy them just as they would a harris.

Like I said...just a reminder

[Mojo]

thank you peregrynne...a llttle tourist sightseeing through Croatia: it is located in southeast europe, very rich in number of wild species. it is a very small country, but the number of plant and animal species is absolutely immense. it is because croatia has its lowland region, hill, region, mountain and mediterranian. we have peregrynes, sakers, goshawks, common buzzards, falco eleonore (merlin?), lanners, falco subuteo, falco tiniculus...golden eagle, halieatus albicilla...eagle owls,stryx uralensis, barn owls(and many more owl species, few more eagle species, couple of kites and harriers)...etc. EVEN GYPS FULVUS!!!! it nests on one of our islands...we have vitnesed recent scandal of poisoning 17 birds...it's quite shameful. our state of conscience is still low level...so...next time summer when you don't know where to go for a vacation-check the map of the southeast europe! plus we kick ass in sports ha ha ha ha ha;);)

on topic:yes, we in croatia are not allowed to catch wild birds. i am not affraid (i think not:)) of any agressive bird...well, to tell the truth, changing leases, or aliaries is not something i am looking forward to, but it has to be done, it's just the part of the sport. i heard that begginers in the USA are not allowed to have harrises, because, they "ruin" the bird...i mean, people rely too much on the inteligence of the bird and forget about keeping it fit. i think i wouldn't make such mistake...perhaps it would be a better choice for me. on the other hand, red tail is beautiful bird, but a bit complicated. so, i figured, if i am able to go through training with redtail and endure all it's leg kicks..it would be more important for me? to get myself on the next level?
or i am i just talking trash?:):) well, i think i cannot make mistake by choosing either of them.

the next thing is that there are no falconers in my region...for maybe 300kilometres. and we really don't have bunnies in abundance.actually, i might say, in some parts we don't have at all...only pheasants...but a friend of mine had redtail, and the only game that he was catching were pheasants..so that shouldn't be a problem

[Mojo]

Then knowing what to do when it catches one. Plus I expect you know the importance of a good pair of scales????

yes, i've done that on the course...but what are the scales? please describe what do you mean, so i can translate it in croatian 8)

[Gos212]

Hi Mojo,

I don't think you're talking trash. I felt the same when I got my first bird (Male RT)

I spent a bit of time at a Falconry Centre before I made my mind up and during that time flew mainly Harris's. And despite the warnings I got about RT's, I got one anyway.

Maybe it was because of the warnings and it was my first bird, I did spend a great deal of time with the bird and never had any problems at all. The bird was (sadly died through illness) a good hunter, only rabbits though, followed on and didnt spend too much time in trees !
I made my first choice as you said, "I like how the bird looks" and thinking back that wasn't a really good reason.Maybe I was fortunate in getting a "good" bird ?

The female RT I fly now can be everything you are warned about RT's.

As Coedhirion said, a female harris would be a better option than a male and if you did decide to go that way, its hunting capabilities would be far greater than a male RT.

Theres nothing stopping you getting a RT for your second bird !

[Mojo]

this is the problem:
there is a strong possibility that i am going on postgraduate study, outside Croatia, in fall, 2005. Just possibility. another thing is that i really don't have much money, so i am trying to go as cheap as possible. i know that this is not the wisest thing to do, i get a lot of warnings that if i find a bird right now, it probably won't be the sharpest knife in the drawer :lol:

BUT I DESPERATELY WANT TO FLY bird, there are 6 months till November, 6 months of quality time...many people ask me, what will i do with the bird afterwards, i will sell it, give it for free, whatever. but i want the bird so bad :( :( ...
due to the lack of money, i choose males, over females. however, my first choice still would be male rt, and that is quite a good choice...but the costs for a beginer...each day they grow exponentially. the bird, the importing licence, glove, bells, box for the bird, weight measurer(i don't know the word in english)...my goodness! it is expensive getting started. i really have to make a plan of expenses :o ...
what do you mean when male harris tends to be more 'free spirited' than the female? does it tend to disobey, or what..? :?