Split Beak

[KeithGlasgow]

I have a European kestrel. The beak had become overgrown and when I went to trim it back I noticed a split starting on the left side between the point and tooth. The beak has since been filed back and I'm chopping all its food up. The vet used resin to fill the split/crack, but the resin fell out. The vet then used a harder substance obtained from a dentist, but it has fell out too. We're thinking of trying the resin again, but first I thought I'd run it past the group for any ideas first. Btw, the vet is the best bird vet I can find in Northern Ireland, and has normally had sucess with resin on parrot beaks.

thanks,
Keith.

[IAmTheWeasel]

Duct tape....It seems to work on everything else.... :D
I'm not sure why the resin is falling out? Is the surface rough enough to give the resin somthing to "bite" onto?

[BrianM]

yup resin or epoxy is the only thing ive ever heard of thats successfull in theses cases

[ScotsFalconer]

get ur vet to phone sum1 like neil forbes and see wat he suggests

[Shaun Byrne]

Is the crack clean, no food stuck in it? I've only ever used 2 part epoxy resin and only had problems if the beak is not completely clean and dry.

[KeithGlasgow]

Thanks for your thoughts. Yes, I returned to the Vet a few weeks ago, and with a fresh batch of resin, he filled the crack. So far it seems to have worked and the resin is still in place.

Confession time - and it must be down to negligence on my part - my Wild Disabled female Peregrine also has a split beak and slightly overgrown. I took her to the Vet at my last visit and he filed the beak back, and applied the resin. With the Peregrine however, it wasn't successful. The resin has come out.

I've kept Buzzards and Harris Hawks in the past and have never had beak problems - I'm thinking it must be more common in Falcons. Also the fact that these two birds are freelofted, means that I'm viewing them from 5 or 6 feet away rather than up close, and therefore more liable to miss beak problems.

thanks for your help,

Keith.

[Shaun Byrne]

Do you feed calcium supliments Keith?

[KeithGlasgow]

No, I don't feed calcium supplements. I do have a container of SA37 which might be the same thing. I don't feed Docs. The Kestrel gets about 60% beef, 40% rats (which I breed) and birds. The Peregrine gets about 40% beef and 60% pheasant/magpie. Maybe if I'd used the SA37, the problems mights not have occured. Thanks for your input.

Keith.

[Goldie]

Keith, a lot of people feed supplements and a lot don't. Depends on what the basic diet is. In your case, you are feeding better than most so It's not a lack of supplements and if you are giving the carcase, its not calcium either.

[Hawkmaster]

Beaks also break for other reasons, just in case newbies are reading this like birds chewing eyelets.

[Kornie]

If the crack is minor is it possible to file it out before resorting to resin?

[Sprout]

Ensure you're feeding the carcasses whole, beef and breast meat etc from pheasant/magpie would result in a deficient diet. Feeding the whole carcass will improve things but you need to be careful regards lead shot, parasites etc etc but also feeding a whole pheasant to a peregrine may mean she only eats the choice pieces of meat and leaves the rest, feeding smaller carcasses ensures they eat all of it eg quail. I personally don't have a problem with DOC's. There has been some debate on here regards their use but from the research I've seen suggests they are a good basis for a balanced diet.

[RabbitHawker]

I agree with Sprout, but would add that I am less keen on DOC as they do not provide any tirings, and so may predispose to overgrown beaks. The main cause of poor quality beak growth is poor quality diet, low in protein and essential amino acids, calcium will not play a part here, but a supplement shoud be used with the diet fed. I like to give my birds tirings such as wings and rabbit heads, it passes the time for them, and helps keep their beak and legs in trim.

[Goldie]

RabbitHawker, can i ask you what supplements the birds would get in the wild over and above anything they are getting from Keiths diet.
I certainly agree supplements are required if the basic diet is DOCs
but Keith appears to be feeding as near as he can to a wild bird.
I am of course assuming he is feeding the carcase where possible.


The Kestrel gets about 60% beef, 40% rats
(which I breed) and birds. The Peregrine gets about 40% beef and 60% pheasant/magpie.
Keith.

[KeithGlasgow]

Thanks for your replies - plenty to consider there! Yes I do feed whole - the magpies are from larsen traps, the pheasants from road kill (there are alot of them between home and work (9 miles away), and most weeks I get one on the road. I suppose, feeding roadkill is generally frowned upon for various reasons, and the bird could contain shot, but I've fed them for quite a few years now, as do other falconers I know.

Someone mentioned about the Peregrine removing the choice meat from the Pheasant and not getting the same amount of bone etc, as she would from a smaller bird. I've been thinking about that. Peregrines prey remains I've studied in the wild include mostly smaller birds eg jackdaw, magpie, pigeon, skylark, starling, (off the top of my head). I can't remember any pheasant sized birds featuring in their diet. Food for thought, as they say!

When the beak is overgrown, there's going to be extra pressure on it as well, and the beak will be more likely to crack if there's any weakness.


thanks, Keith.

[RabbitHawker]

Not boieng funny, but how likely is it that Kieth is feeding whole carcass beef, he'd need a large food hatch, the bones are certainly too large, and a liver would last a bird weeks. A whole diet is exactly that, liver, kidney, skin, brains, bone, and muscle, hard to do with beef. Small prey will be consumed whole, with most of their intestines in the wild, very different. I would certainly advocate a supplement with his diet.

[Goldie]

Not taking it as you being funny :lol: but if you had read my post correctly I said "I am assuming he is feeding carcases WHERE POSSIBLE"
he also went on to say he was feeding whole which to my mind includes intestines etc.

[RabbitHawker]

If he is feeding 60% of the diet as beef, then this is not a whole food diet, and a calcium deficiency could easily occur depending on how much bone is in the other 40% of the diet. For this reason a supplement shoud be added. If beef only made up 10-20% it shoud be fine, but he is feeding much more than this, and probably without liver,kidney etc.

[Sprout]

I am less keen on DOC as they do not provide any tirings
Completely agree. I still believe DOC's are a good basis for a complete diet but just that - a good basis. I still use quail/rat/rabbit etc to assist with natural beak wear/casting