Free lofting HH for moult [Archive]

HawkWind

16-02-2005, 05:23 PM

Hi H4wka... thanks for the 'up beat' comments... BUT I been told several diffrerent stories over the last two years ...some Im still having nightmares over :-)

in no particular order

1. you loose track of the amount of food consumed
2. disease can affect a bird long before it shows signs
3. the bird can go into shock when taken up again
4. can lead to bad behavior in field due to too much independence
5. im sure there's a 5 but Ive forgotten it :-)

Any ho ... any of the above can appartently be stop by moulting out on a bow perch.. the bird being handle and weigh every day

Reason for asking original question... my female was moulted out of her eyass plumage on bow perch, and ended up with fret marks in tail feathers...not good :-(

Can you .. or any of the gang help ? Grateful if you could :-)

martin

Jay

16-02-2005, 05:45 PM

Ya that stuff can happen if you don't interact with the bird. My bird is freelofted most of the time, even during the hunting season. When feeding during the molt I find the weight I want to keep the bird at and learn the amount of food required to keep this weight on. I never toss the food to my bird, even during the molt the bird must always come to the fist for its food, I also throw out the lure ocasionaly just to keep that there.

If you don't interact with the bird it will start to revert to a wild state. Why not take the extra time needed to have a bird that all it needs is a weight drop come hunting season. During the summer the bird does not just sit there, everyday he comes out into my yard to weather. Here he is constantly in contact with people, cats, dogs, etc so come hunting season there is none of this remanning needed. Also when feeding it is while I am walking around my yard. Although my bird is a Redtail I dont see why this does not work with HH or other birds.

Also hooding should be kept up during the molt, as a bird that does not see the hood for a long period becomes "unmade" to the hood.

The Late Lord Lucan

16-02-2005, 09:04 PM

1. you loose track of the amount of food consumed

So instead of just throwing in the food, go into the pen & get the bird to come for it. Weigh the bird up as normal.
In my opinion a bird can get too fat during the moult. This can cause many problems. I prefer not to let my bird go over about 10-15% above the flying weight.

2. disease can affect a bird long before it shows signs

And so it can if you are handling the bird as well. The hard thing about bird health is the fact that they can hide ill health very well, and in a lot of cases, until it is too late. Providing your husbandry is kept in good order and you are feeding a good, suitable, varied diet, then I wouldn't worry about this one too much.

3. the bird can go into shock when taken up again

A bird that is 'taken up' correctly shouldn't suffer too much stress. It certainly won't be anything like the trauma it went through when taken up for the very first time. The more you interact with the bird through the moult, then the less stressfull it will be. If a bird is tied to a perch and has virtually no interaction it will be just as stressed when taken up as a free lofted one with the same level of interaction.

4. can lead to bad behavior in field due to too much independence

Again, I think you will find that this will all be related to the amount of interaction & manning a bird gets and also how much action it gets to see when it's out doing the job. If you teach it which side it's bread is buttered and if it is manned enough (and properly) then this shouldn't cause any problems in the field.

I have moulted various breeds of birds, both tied & free lofted. Given the option, I would free loft in nearly every single occasion.
If you have a large enough (and suitable) pen/mews, then I wouldn't think twice about free lofting a Harris.
Personally, I would prefer to keep a Harris free lofted during the flying season as well.

Regards,
Lucky.

Gozzhawk

16-02-2005, 09:31 PM

The Late Lord Lucan

16-02-2005, 11:19 PM

as bird at hunting weight might annoy/injur/kill moulting bird
Yes, that is a very good probability........It would be fairly likely that one will get killed or seriously injured.
I wouldn't recommend it.

Regards,
LLL.

Shaun Byrne

16-02-2005, 11:33 PM

Agree with everything LLL says above. The advantages of free lofting a HH far outweigh any percieved disadvantages.

Varmint

17-02-2005, 06:50 AM

We all had to start somewhere guys!

but most of us did our home work before getting a bird,

The practise standard of our sport in this day and age worries me?

For a self proclaimed Professional falconer to be asking questions like this?(Gozzhawk)

and

For a guy (Hawkwind) who already owns and fly's a bird to be posting these sorts of questions?

Where is it all going? are the blind teaching the blind?

It really, really annoys me! :evil: :|

Sorry Hawkwind and Gozz it's not your fault, but the answer to your questions may be on the tip of your tongue if you use common sense, stop listening to everything you hear and in your case Gozz, Learn taxidermy! (it might come in handy!)

<Gets down off his soap box>

Guys you have done the right thing posting here, cause there are some top Guys and galls here to help you.

LLL and H4wka are (as usual) spot on with their advise.

HawkWind

17-02-2005, 05:02 PM

Thanks folks for the replies :-)

Has to to 'where its all going'... the problem is where its all come from !!!

For the beginner in an subject ... all you can go on is what you are told and what you read. Have you guys and gals who really know your stuff read any of the 'bibles' on falconry recently ? Have you noticed the huge swaves of imformation that are missing...' Moulting' half a page if your lucky :-(

Endless descriptions of bird species and jesses and bells...and more jesses and more bells.... :-(

Then you meet a couple of people who in a voice that would make the Angels in heaven believe them, tell you to throw the books away and do it ''LIKE THIS and don't listen to anyone else who tells you different'' !!!

Now by a miracle I met Gaz, who put me on too this site... Praise the Lord saved at last..so why do you lot get together and WRITE THE BOOK !!! on how it should be done.... PLEASE !!!!!

My own fustration comes in the fact that no matter how well meaning beginners are we can kill birds with all the kindness and best intentions in the world.

True experience comes from doing your subject everyday.. true generosity comes from passing on that experience which is what your doing on here ...very glad I found you all on this site. I've learnt alot ...thank you all

Now get together and write that ''BOOK'' ...Ill buy the first copy :-)

Thanks again martin

Gozzhawk

17-02-2005, 06:23 PM

I feel I want to meet a few of you face to face , this list is like all others , full of those who know it all. I posted to find out if anyone had done the moult of flying/non before not to get shat on from a height! Yes i know the same answers as was posted what I'm trying to do is learn and inform , there might be people out there actually unaware of the risks mentioned, MY DADS BIGGER THAN YOUR DAD assface!

Wightwings

17-02-2005, 07:03 PM

put my fem in for moult about a week ago. she flies at around 2.3 so am aiming to go no higher than 2.7 (ish) or a little less although i do know she would easily go up to 2.9
have and will continue to man her but not daily and mix feeding with on the fist and allowing her to find food in the aviary after being weathered on the lawn.
keeping up the contact allows for easy re-training, and access to housing for cleaning.

Varmint

17-02-2005, 07:13 PM

Now get together and write that ''BOOK'' ...Ill buy the first copy

Falconry and Hawking For Beginners by Adrian HAllgarth published by Hancock house price (from me) £17.99+£3.60 p+p.

I feel I want to meet a few of you face to face

You can meet me at the Game Conservancy Scottish Fair at Scone Palace in July, Ill be the guy in the arena flying the birds.

But before you dive off in a huff, think about what you have posted on an open forum poseing as a semi Professional falconer?

Im a professional falconer and statements like that dont really do our profession any favours, a professional falconer would know better?

I think you know the answer to your own question all along, you just needed re-assuring.

Look at my rather blunt approach as casual re- assurance not "Shat on from Height" but rem this is an open thread, if you dont like the answer, dont ask the question!

But after all is said, i will be delighted to help or assist you or anyone who asks for my help in any way i can, even if its not what you want to hear?

Finally, i don't hide behind a computer screen, my name is Adrian Hallgarth as most of the members on here know.

MY DADS BIGGER THAN YOUR DAD assface

My Dads Dead! so your dad probably is and i bet he smells better to!

BrianM

17-02-2005, 07:54 PM

now let get this in straight from the off.. i too have had the sharp end of varmints tongue, but his comments to me were all based on the fact that he is passionate about BOP and falconry ( bull , chinashop, etc) but even though he looks like a freddy mercury lookalike in his website, he is a top bloke and will help you in any way he can ( as will we all ) but your questions regarding the moult seem to be a little niave side for someone who proclaims to be a falconry pro,,,,,, anyhows if you have the room freelofting is best ,,, interaction every day will keep her on side. as for going into shock when she is taken up again,,, ive never heard of that happening,, i am not saying it cant happen . just saying that ive never heard of it....... fret marks... fret marks are caused by the bird not having enough energy IE food when producing feathers...thus diverting energy away from producing feathers into other more vital areas

Gaz

17-02-2005, 08:20 PM

not to get shat on from a height
Dont think you were but might be missing something??on reading it just seemed to be a crazy question...something that commonsense,even if you were a very raw beginner,would sort out,i.e.our birds do what they do out of hunger..hope that makes sense...Anyway,lets all get along,stupid to threaten people.....only a hobby.... :mrgreen:

p.s.
the 2 e-mails i got,you know who you are...i will put my falconry up against anybodys...im lucky to be able to fly at leasst 3-4 hrs aday,everyday,if i choose,(wich i do mostly,its hard :mrgreen: )it makes a hell of a differance,a fit bird,if you dont like the advice,dont take it,..sorry i dont quote from "in vogue" books,the only advice i can give is from experience,cos ive done it and f####d it up first. :twisted:

Varmint

17-02-2005, 08:21 PM

Amen to that Gaz :axe:

Shaun Byrne

17-02-2005, 08:50 PM

Go for it mate, you shouldn't get any problems as long as they dont get too much disturbance or see you with food.

Lads, it really is as simple as that. Lob em in a decent pen, leave them alone as much as possible and dont let them see you with food or they will go ballistic and smash up all those nice new feathers. Once they have finished moulting, a little manning and good old weight reduction, a bit of fittness training and off you go to nail some bunnies.

Just one thing, from the comments you have made, especially after claiming to be a pro falconer, it is not hard to see that you need to do a lot more learning. I would suggest reading Adrians book, you wont need another and no its not full of the usual page fillers you described so well. Anyone on this forum can get very detailed advice at any time of the day or night but to come on a forum as a pro falconer, you would be expected to at least have grasped the basics first.

Oh, and if you DO want to meet me for a chat (if we haven't met already, you sound familiar?) PM me and we'll get it sorted.

Gaz

17-02-2005, 08:53 PM

Steady Shamus :mrgreen: (thats gotta be your nickname for the states dude,the lads will have a vote) :butthead: :mrgreen:

Varmint

17-02-2005, 08:56 PM

Gaz are u really nuts or does the medication dosage need increasing? :rolleyes: :goodman:

Shaun Byrne

17-02-2005, 08:56 PM

Must be the Irish half Gaz, I can tarmack drives as well!! lol!!

HawkWind

18-02-2005, 10:52 AM

fret marks... fret marks are caused by the bird not having enough energy IE food when producing feathers...thus diverting energy away from producing feathers into other more vital areas[/quote]

Thanks for the answer Brian...I will tell you what happened and then you may well be able to add more.. ?

My 2 year old FHH Esmie would eat like a glutton given the chance.. eats for England.. probably Wales too :-)

I started hunting her at just 2lb in weight ..this year she has flown most of the season 2lb 1 1/2oz and as down very well at that weight.

From her daily charts I can tell you in her first moult in 5 weeks she went from her flying weight 2lb to 21b 11oz and stayed there for three weeks... during this time her diet consisted of either 4doc...1/2 quail... 1/2 a rat...rabbit head or leg...pheasant .. plus vitamins.

She has been check for worms and the is no problem there...

Is she just a 'good doer' as far has her weight is concerned or is she still missing something in her diet to cause the fret marks.. or is the weight its self a cause... she got 'very stroppy'

Varmint

18-02-2005, 01:48 PM

Fret Marks arent only caused by poor food when feathers are being produced, disturbance and "Fret" ironically cause this condition.

Most falconers avoid both by free lofting their birds to moult and allowing them a reasonable amount of excess food throughout the period.

Forget her weight, just give her some peace, some freedom and plenty of varied diet, you will not have any problems.

Most folk wont even clean out their chambers in this period to avoid any stress or fright to the bird in fat condition.

you will have noticed at these high weights that your bird will quickly return to her wild condition, but by gentle dieting toward the time you pick her back up to start the new season, you'll avoid any real periods of stress to retrain.

Gaz

18-02-2005, 05:11 PM

but by gentle dieting toward the time you pick her back up to start the new season, you'll avoid any real periods of stress to retrain.
See Mart??did you get your pm?? :mrgreen: ,

Gaz

18-02-2005, 05:16 PM

"THIS WEEK...I AS MOSTLY BEEN WEARING....VERSACCE"

Jiff

18-02-2005, 08:47 PM

varmint,can my bird get too heavy,i weighed her she's at 3lb 2 1/2 oz,she's holding steady but she realy is a gluten and even when hunting she would come to the glove for a titbit with a crop bulging,should i be aware of the ammount of food she takes and maybe pick a high weight and try and maintain that,or is it safe to give her whatever she whants.

The Late Lord Lucan

18-02-2005, 10:38 PM

Jiff, my personal opinion is that a bird can get too fat.
When a bird gets overweight, it can suffer from all the same sort of problems as humans. In extremes, the heart will struggle, blood pressure will be a problem, arteries will suffer from fatty deposits etc etc.

Just as with humans, with correct diet and exercise, these problems, providing they have not gone too far for too long are reversible.
However, if you avoid them in the first place, you are better off.
In a post some time ago, I made a scenario with reference to a footballer or athlete. Imagine you play football, your season lasts, lets just say, six months. In those six months, you are at your peak fitness, you work hard, eat a healthy diet, and live a healthy lifestyle.
Then, come the end of the season, what do you do?
If you were to stop exercising, this would be one thing, but if you were to start eating as many burgers, sweets and drink as much beer as you possibly could, when the season comes around again, you have a bucket load of work to do to lose the weight and get fit again. You have also placed an unnecessary amount of stress on your body and its organs.
I realise this is perhaps a slightly far fetched comparison, but I'm sure you will see what I am getting at.
A lot of people put there bird into a pen and virtually forget it during the moult. The birds diet may suffer as well. During the flying season, the bird has enjoyed feeding on a wide variety of it's kills, plus the 'staple' chick diet that most people feed. Once the bird stops killing, the variety of it's diet may wane, and it will, in some cases, get fed almost exclusively on chicks.

There are all sorts of views on this subject, and a lot of people with more experience than myself will agree or disagree.
Some people prefer to leave their birds in total isolation during the moult, refusing to even clean out during that period. That is fine.
If your bird is used to you going in every day, cleaning out, weighing her, running the lawn mower round etc etc etc, this is fine too as long as you are consistent.
If you have her in seclusion for three months, and then expect to be able to walk in and use the jetwash and mower, then you are going to get problems.
Me? I personally like to keep up quite a large amount of contact, weighing often, cleaning out very often, and above all, not letting the birds weight creep too high.
When the following season comes around, I am left with virtually no work or agro getting started.
Just my opinion.

Regards,
Lucky.

BrianM

18-02-2005, 10:53 PM

hey lucky were you question time last night??????

The Late Lord Lucan

18-02-2005, 10:57 PM

hey lucky were you question time last night??????

:?
???

Kevin Massey

18-02-2005, 10:59 PM

jiff,

in my experience the food intake slows down as you get into the moult, and the bird takes on a more clayed back approach when feeding because they ain't getting cut down for hunting.

Kev

Wightwings

19-02-2005, 03:20 PM

all that what LLL said for me too. I aim to take the weight back up to around 15%ish higher than the hunting weight. its also vital in my opinion to take the weight up gradually and not start to "bulk" feed, dont want to give the body too much of a shock. mines been down now two week and today weighed in at 2.6 1/2.
around 2.8 is my target figure and as the warmer weather comes in the food intake will be adjusted to maintain that ( less required) I will weight her periodically and alternate feeding paterns

I know peeps that feed as much as the bird wants also but every one does things their own way.

Varmint

19-02-2005, 05:47 PM

Each to their own guy's but is that what a bird in the wild would do?

How does it know when its reached the body shock stage?

I personally have moulted a few birds without problem by feeding liberally, but try to incorporate a "fast" day at least once a week where no food is given.

I find that pushing the weight of a bird in flying condition up too slowly can encourage them to crash around a bit too much, so i satisfy both physical and mental needs quickly :wink:

They are good self regulators, never had one pop yet! :lol:

Will

19-02-2005, 06:28 PM

Could you expand on the thinking behind a 'fast' day, please? Does this only apply to birds with a crop?

Varmint

19-02-2005, 07:16 PM

By "Fast" day i mean a day that i simply dont feed (obviously this applies to fat birds being fed daily when free in a chamber)

Will

19-02-2005, 07:29 PM

I do understand the expression, my point was more about the actual usefulness to the bird. Does the fast day simply try to reflect the natural state, as with dogs for example, or is there more than one purpose?

Varmint

19-02-2005, 07:36 PM

Several, In the wild the bird wouldnt hunt or feed every day so this day allows it the cahnce to empty the tanks.

It also means that the appetite is increased following a rest day and encourages the bird to feed heartily with renewed vigour.

it also allows you to guage exsternally how fat or thin the bird really is, does it come down straight away for food, or is it still stuffed?

Always try to prepare your food as much as possible before its introduction to a chamber like removing most of the skin of a Rat or smashing the larger bones of rabbit or pheasant with a hammer. this will keep the chamber cleaner and minimise the risk of disease thru rank waste ect.

Will

19-02-2005, 08:02 PM

Thank you, Varmint. Perfect common sense, as usual. :)

Wightwings

19-02-2005, 08:12 PM

How does it know when its reached the body shock stage?

its doesnt but in the wild they dont allow themselves to become as sharp and restricted in food as we make them. (do they????)

I find that pushing the weight of a bird in flying condition up too slowly can encourage them to crash around a bit too much, so i satisfy both physical and mental needs quickly

i'v increased her food intake in a controlled manner and her weight has gone up retrospectively. she is calm, well mannered and the only the noise she makes is a mild peeping. She never crashed around at sharp weight and she certainly doesnt now.

diff peeps do it diff ways like you say.

hey at least we arent asking profesional falconer type questions :wink: :lol:

Jiff

19-02-2005, 08:13 PM

well guy's the best info yet from the forum, i dont mind admiting that in my inexperiance i thought it was going to be as simple as feed her a varied diet and chill,i dont suppose anything with sky has panned out as by the book,which i'm glad about as i would have learned little in the process,i do want to keep up contact on a daily basis,and i want life in the garden to procede as normal,i'll watch her weight and make sure the git doesnt become obese,she certainly seems happy enough at this huge weight,the same thaught has past my mind as you suggested varmint,what changes in the wild would take place during the moult,given that i suppose it would be in the spring summer months there would be ample young game to nail but would the birds go on a binge,i doubpt it prsonaly,they would probably still hunt when the need arose,given the bodilly changes taking place and the extra strain of casting and growing new plumage i would expect hunting to increase but at what rate? understanding the birds metobolic rate at this time of the year is the key (which i don't have) anyway some sound advice very much appreciated guy's :D

HawkNorth

19-02-2005, 08:54 PM

my female harris going through the molt starts of with more food being given early on though once the weather warm she needs less i still weigh her inside the avery she gets on the scales herself which makes it easy
i wont be taking her out to weather as i find that only stesses my bird again when the weather warms a clean bath of water will be available most days ill also let my bird put on about 4oz

Varmint

20-02-2005, 07:21 AM

It really is all common sense guys!

I dont like moulting on the Bow or block preffering to free loft, as fat bird tethered without excersise may be proned to fatty tissue build up around the heart and increase the chances of "pinching" feathers in blood thru bateing.

I normally end a birds season by allowing them to crop up on a last kill, leaving a lasting memory for next season. Ill put them in a chamber and when their crop is empty ill start to feed approx triple their daily rations, when food start to get left, i know i've got a fat bird.

A free lofted bird, just wants to be left alone when fat, it's mind can relax and you can re build your relationship at the start of next season, it's not hard or time consuming.

Your bird will reach a certain state and then self regulate its daily input just as it would in the wild. If it isnt hungry it wont eat, if it is it will, it 's as simple as that?

I have a shelf system in some of my chambers built into the wall which will allow me to remove any wasted food from the previouse day, and i would add that this is a big benefit.

One of my old mentors told me something that has stuck and proven to be sound advise, "During the moult, you can't ever over feed!"

Provided the diet is varied and bordedom breakers like Smashed Bunny heads are provided, your birds will do ok.

As for weighing the bird in the chamber?

Your birds weight really is just an indication as to state of mind, dont get hung up by lbs and ozs during the moult, just ask yourself is my bird happy, content and moulting? if the answer is yes! leave it alone.

If your bird stopps eating for a couple of days or is eating a tiny amount, this may be cause for consern and then a weight check might be in order, or medical advise sought.

And as for the body shock thing Wightwings, yes if you try to stuff the bird too quickly whilst in a low condition you might get some bacterial inbalance problems or constipation, But to be honest if a bird is that low at this time of year at the end of the season, somethings wrong anyway?

One final point i would like to add.

If your bird has any badly broken feathers, try to imp them before putting down to moult, the new feathers rely on their surrounding feathers to provide, protection, guidance and support whilst they grow!

However you decide to moult your birds folks, have a good one!:wink:

Varmint

20-02-2005, 07:43 AM

at least we arent asking profesional falconer type questions

If your reffering to our semi professional friends question?

"Can you free loft a HH in flying condition in a chamber with a moulting HH?"

Most beginners may see why this is such a stupid question when they think about the daily feeding and management of two birds with such different needs?

I am at a loss as to why someone with even basic experience would ask such a question unless they were really a beginner with limited aviary space, and wanted to fly one hawk thru the summer and another thru the winter.

I wasn't upset by the question, just the fact that someone with such a limited understanding of the subject would try to pass themselves off as a professional!

I have worked hard for most of my life in this profession, and admit that i can be pompus but as a wise man once said on this forum " i've made most of the FCK up's, let me spare you them thru my experience's!"

Tollerate me Guys, im nuts anyway :rolleyes:

Wightwings

20-02-2005, 10:09 AM

If your bird has any badly broken feathers, try to imp them before putting down to moult, the new feathers rely on their surrounding feathers to provide, protection, guidance and support whilst they grow!

fantastic advise and not something a lot of people do.

If your reffering to our semi professional friends question?

"Can you free loft a HH in flying condition in a chamber with a moulting HH?" :shock:

yes i was.......i found it a little strange but not being anywhere near a professional chose to stay out of the "conversation" (although BASIC husbandry and knowledge should tell you the answer) :roll:

HawkNorth

20-02-2005, 10:00 PM

varmint sound stuff

i should have put in, weighing approx once fortnightly

Gaz

20-02-2005, 10:43 PM

Unless you suspect something is wrong why would you want to weigh a bird in moult??..not being funny..dont understand all the moult on a perch,keep manning it (wich by the way aint needed & aint wanted by a Harris) etc...would like to learn.. :shock:

HawkNorth

21-02-2005, 09:10 PM

aint needed aint wanted is probably wright should keep my ideas to myself

dont want to confuse the issue which i have already done

Gozzhawk

05-03-2005, 08:59 AM

well... for all you out there who seem to have an idea , no one actually answered to say if they had tried my idea. we all know the possibilities but has anyone actually tried it? If new things never got tried we would all still be following the 'kesrtrel for a knave' scenario. Today both birds go free after being tethered together for a week , so i'll keep you all posted with my naive comments

The Late Lord Lucan

05-03-2005, 10:12 AM

I have a similair dilemma , been offered a fHH which needs moulting but would have to share aviary wth fHH who will be fllying???Worries are my preference of free lofting might not be suitable as bird at hunting weight might annoy/injur/kill moulting bird . Any comments welcome.
well... for all you out there who seem to have an idea , no one actually answered to say if they had tried my idea. we all know the possibilities but has anyone actually tried it? If new things never got tried we would all still be following the 'kesrtrel for a knave' scenario. Today both birds go free after being tethered together for a week , so i'll keep you all posted with my naive comments

If your idea is the one in the first quote, then good luck to you mate. You have already been advised on this.
At some point, you will, without any doubt, end up with at least one injured or dead bird.
And yes, it has been tried. And I am not aware of any case that did not end in tears at some point.
no one actually answered to say if they had tried my idea
Most people are bright enough to either not bother, or if they don't have the experience they listen to the sound advice they have already been given.

Regards,
Lucky.

Varmint

05-03-2005, 11:15 AM

Another one bites the dust!

Criminal.......................................... ......................................

The Late Lord Lucan

05-03-2005, 11:52 AM

What can I say?

Keep banging until your frustration stops, or until unconcious.

The Late Lord Lucan

05-03-2005, 11:55 AM

we would all still be following the 'kesrtrel for a knave' scenario.

Sometimes I wonder wether this wouldn't be such a bad idea. It would mean that 99.9999999999% of people just wouldn't be allowed to keep B.O.Ps.

Regards,
Lucky.

Falconry Equipment International

05-03-2005, 08:23 PM

Your honour, I can't help but agree<VBG> ( perhaps a kestrel should be brougjht back as the 1st bird, I know mine bit my right index finger to the bone when manning him &even then he neded up hunting sparrows etc)
all the best
J

HawkNorth

05-03-2005, 10:52 PM

what is your technique for rab heads

The Late Lord Lucan

06-03-2005, 02:03 AM

what is your technique for rab heads

If you mean 'Rag'heads,
Then let me put you on the straight & narrow,
I have no issue at all with colour or religion, and I have no time for those that do.
Please feel free to bang your head in the little circle all you like, but I have just as little tolerance for racial hatred or racism whatever you want to call it, as I do for idiots, moorons, or verbal abuse etc etc etc
If you come to me with a racist attitude or discrimination, then let it be known, I will be the first to bang your head in the little circle.

Sean

06-03-2005, 08:49 AM

He ment with feeding rabbit heads i think LLL, as someone said before its best to bash emwith a hammer before feeding

Falconry Equipment International

06-03-2005, 09:32 AM

Well said your honour
J
tugging his forelock :yawinkle:

The Late Lord Lucan

06-03-2005, 11:48 AM

He ment with feeding rabbit heads i think LLL, as someone said before its best to bash emwith a hammer before feeding

Sure, a hammer will be your best option.
Again, feel free to use the little circle, but it will make a mess of your screen...... :lol:

Regards,
Lucky.

Varmint

07-03-2005, 07:27 AM

I dont think my screen will be tough enough to bang the amount of heads i need to on it?

Do i have your permission to cut and paste it onto some other such object, maybe my trailer wall or something so that i can have the luxury of "Mobile" tension relief Lucky?

HawkNorth

07-03-2005, 07:59 PM

does it not make a mess or become abit gungie

head banging?

The Late Lord Lucan

07-03-2005, 10:26 PM

You can cut & paste it wherever you like Varmint,
However, I could strongly recommend a few peoples faces that you could stick it to.......... :wink: :lol: :lol:

does it not make a mess or become abit gungie
Definately...........makes it more fun.

HawkWind

16-03-2005, 03:22 PM

Hi folks..on the subject of feeding rabbit heads... I have fed my female harris on rabbits for 2 seasons.

Basic method ...remove head from body..place on hard surface chopping board is ideal ( other surfaces may come to mind, but try to a void them..it only ends in tears ! ) Then split the head open down its length with a heavy knife, and give to bird.

The most positive thing with this method its near to being a 'natural' method, but exposes more of the head meat to the bird. It also helps maintain beak length,and neck and shoulder conditioning, by giving the bird something to work on, and meal time is extended, which is always a bonus for any bird.

Its worth baring in mind that shattered bones can be extremely sharp, and could pierce a bating birds crop...not good news :-(

Shaun Byrne

16-03-2005, 08:59 PM

I leave them whole, my birds will pick them clean, they even manage to extract the brain from underneath.

Hawkranger

16-03-2005, 10:08 PM

Dear All,

Some fascinating stuff here. In my case personal circumstance impacts on the way i moult my Hawks and my hawking in general. I move house, a lot. nearly every 2 years or there abouts. I have moved 8 times in the past 11 years so the construction of free lofting chambers is an issue. This i learnt through bitter experience and expense. After the first 3 moves i resigned myself to the fact that it just wasn't feasible. I opted for standard 6x6 weathering's which can be collapsed and erected as required. When the moult came round there was the issue of being permanently tethered in the shade unable to take in all the joys of summer (sun, showers). I took the front off the weathering's and looked to have a Bow on the inside and one out in front with an extended leash to allow them to go in and out. OK i suppose but the leash length worried me. to much momentum and its all to easy to break a leg. In the end i was flicking through Falconers and raptor magazine and saw an article by kevin Riach. He upturned 2 concrete filled plant pots and inserted an 8 ft running bar between the 2 with rings attached. The system is fantastic and as yet (3 moults) i have not had a single problem. The exterior area outside the weathering is meshed off for security with access via 2 small gates.
back onto the subject in hand. They are fed as much as hey can possibly eat of a mixed and varied diet with a fasting day, as Adrian has mentioned, every fortnight before they are blocked out, the area pressure washed and disinfected. They rest of the time they are left in peace.

To reclaim them is simply a case of a little enseaming and weight reduction and 2 to 3 days heavy manning then where back into it ready for the good times.

I absolutely detest the fact that i cant free loft my hawks. When i complete my service in a years time and i move into our own home i am going to build the most fantastic chambers money can buy and i cant wait for the day.

Safe and happy moulting to all.

Aide

Gozzhawk

16-03-2005, 10:09 PM

Well folks I tried to put the moult thing together and not really surprisingly i found out it wasnt feasible!!! Birds got on well for afew days then then moulting bird began to get bullied so i had to seperate them. This is one time when the saying 'if at first you dont succeed....' goes out the window. Just had to try , thanks to all advice , i heard some interesting debate, later hawkdudes

The Late Lord Lucan

16-03-2005, 10:53 PM

Birds got on well for afew days then then moulting bird began to get bullied so i had to seperate them

Really? :roll:

Gozzhawk

07-06-2005, 09:54 AM

well lucan face , did you post that it happens every time ??? I bet it it feasible under certain circumstance. at least I'm honest about the end result

The Late Lord Lucan

07-06-2005, 10:25 AM

well lucan face , did you post that it happens every time ??? I bet it it feasible under certain circumstance.

Well Gozzhawk testicle..... :lol: ........please be my guest to try it again

Other than the fact that I get the needle with people that go against everyones advice and birds end up getting hurt or killed, I couldn't really give a rats ass.......
It's your possible loss, not mine.

at least I'm honest about the end result
That may be the case.........many people were honest enough to predict the probable result for you, but you didn't take any notice either did you?........what did you gain from being honest? Nothing. You still put your birds at risk........as I said, your problem, not mine.
Good luck with your future attempts.