The Trolley System

[Jack Merlin]

I was introduced to the trolley system by French falconer, Henri Desmont.

Briefly, the hawk is tehered to a ring which can slide of a tensioned wire. The hawk has the choice of a perch in either of two huts, one at each end of the wire. It also has access to an outside bow perch and a bath.

I have had a goshawk on this system 24/7 for nearly three years without as much as a broken feather. I was laid up for a month after major surgery but this hawk caught two January hen pheasants in the air (at 100 and 200 yards respectively) within a few days of being taken up. He was very quickly ready to fly again because I could call him to the fist, along the wire, every day.

A few details. The huts are made of two sheets of six foot long corrugated iron on A frames. The rear of each hut is enclosed with wind break material. Each hut has a perch parallel to the wire which is bolted to a steel bracket which is in turn bolted to a timber upright at the rear of the hut. There is more wind break material under the perch, also a wire from the end of the perch to the ground. This is to prevent a jess getting each side of the perch and the hawk then twisting them by turning around. There is a stop near the end of the wire to keep the leash taut, so it is less likely to tangle. The wind break material under the bow perch is to stop the hawk going under the bow and getting the leash tangled.

Jack

[HawkMan69UK]

looks good to me

[Varmint]

An important point on the desmont system that i see you have omitted Jack!

They place tennis balls through the static wire at either end which act as shockers for the swivel and leash as they slide from one end to the other.
I put a picture of Francois identical system on an earlier thread about his dogs, maybe someone can find it?

Also, they use low screens at one end and tyres stacks at the other rather than a bow perch.

A friend tried this system last year on his eyass gos and had problems with the bird overshooting at speed, he ended up placing 6ft x 6ft panels on either side of his field shelter so the bird would see a much larger visible barrier that couldnt be flown thru.

great system, but i personally prefer a system which encourages me to have to pick up the bird even on a rest day, keeping up the all so important personal interraction on a daily basis.

Loop perches are also another great Accipter perch!

Im affraid for me, Screens offer everything i need for night quaters and feather condition, whilst Bow Perch and Bath can be moved on a daily basis allowing me to keep an area clean and disinfectable.

Just shows you eh? one man's medicine is another's poison.

A wise man once said "many roads may lead to one City, some are more fraught with danger, but they all lead there in the end!"

[Gaz]

Kev Riach uses a system based on this,ill talk to him and see if i can put his article on it up on the site. :mrgreen:

[Jack Merlin]

does the bird never get tangeled up with it all ?

Not if you design it right!<g>

They place tennis balls through the static wire at either end which act as shockers for the swivel and leash as they slide from one end to the other.

Several have remarked that a bird flying down the wire would pick up speed. That has not been my experience, possibly because my wire is at ground level and there is some slack at the end. So the ring doesn't come to a dead stop. A friend is incorporating a weight where the leash is tied to the wire -- so the bird has to work to get from one end to the other. In practice, my gos does not fly straight from one end to the other when disturbed but tends to pull sideways or at an angle so it is slowed (and kept fit?) by the friction.

Also, they use low screens at one end and tyres stacks at the other rather than a bow perch.

I have an atv tyre as a perch for the peregrine (on a similar set up) and that works fine, but I like a natural branch for a shortwing. I have always used hazel for bow perches steam bent to shape. Guess I am just mean!

A friend tried this system last year on his eyass gos and had problems with the bird overshooting at speed, he ended up placing 6ft x 6ft panels on either side of his field shelter so the bird would see a much larger visible barrier that couldnt be flown thru.

Henri suggested much larger huts but I found mine quite adequate if the wire is at ground level. The bird can land on the side (NOT the top) of the A frame but as it is a smooth surface, he simply slides down and no harm is done.

i personally prefer a system which encourages me to have to pick up the bird even on a rest day, keeping up the all so important personal interraction on a daily basis.

As has been said, horses for courses!<g> I like this system BECAUSE it allows interaction. I can call the hawk to the fist daily along the length of the wire.

An American friend has just rigged up a 100 ft system for his male gos which hit a fence and pulled tendons in a wing. He says it is already flying half the length and he has great hopes.

For me, one major benefit was the cost. All materials are second hand, except the tensioner, link, etc. so it cost about a fiver!<vbg>

Jack

[Varmint]

For me, one major benefit was the cost. All materials are second hand, except the tensioner, link, etc. so it cost about a fiver!<

Power to you jack, you seemed to have achieved an enviable goal in your personal hawk management, well done mate!

I rem a guy in the 80's trying something with lead strips and weights on his gos for high jumping? i heard a few stories thath the bird had eventually damaged something or other thru it, but it certainly made sense as they often carry large prey several hundred yards?

I was reading a recent article about the lad "Lloyd Buck" and his high diving stuff with Falcons carrying camera packs. He orchetsrated the Goshawk Back pack stuff in the forest.

I was struck by an idea that if your bird could be made to wear some sort of vest, maybe weight strips could be introduced to cunning pockets and greater weight could be carried in an uniform way around the body.

Daily excersise and increasing weight would improve muscle structure and fitness over time eh?

[Varmint]

Kev Riach uses a system based on this

Gaz did you think Kev was just brill, or do you think he might have picked up one or two idea's from folks he has met?

He got the idea from Francois Desmond, the brother of the guy jack got it from!

Kev uses concrete filled plantpots at each end as perches or something? doesnt he?

[Gaz]

Nope,if you use something based on something,..you obviously saw something to base it upon,...i know Kev"s a divvy :mrgreen: (oops,got to see him about flying a perlin too,humble pie Kev if your reading :lol: )Kev uses concrete filled plantpots at each end as perches or something? doesnt he?
Yeah thats right..whats his famous saying??ahh i know "if i cant jet-wash it,..i dont want it". :mrgreen:

[Varmint]

Good ole Kev, saw him for the first time in ages (6yrs)last week!

Hasn't changed a bit!

I really like the guy and was shocked to hear that his son is now 18 :shock:

Just a little lad last time i saw him. doesn't time fly folks?

[Afshimo]

Could this system be used with falcons? (except change the bow for a block)

I think for an expensive bird like a gos, it helps a lot, would like to try this one out someday. Good one

[Jack Merlin]

Could this system be used with falcons? (except change the bow for a block)

I have a peregrine tiercel on a similar system, except I use an ATV tyre for the perch instead of the bow perch. If you think about it, a block is a bad idea because the bird is going to get the leash hooked around it sooner or later. Using a tyre, the hawk should not be able to reach more than half way across the tyre. I also have a shelf perch in the hut, instead of a horizontal rod.

There is nothing new in falconry. I think Henri got the idea out of an old book. Anyway, I suspect he did not invent it!

I also use jump ups but fasten a light chain to the swivel. The gos cannot lift the entire chain. By calling off from various angles, it is possible to vary the load. The drag rope on a balloon works in the same way.

Again, jump ups are work. Work is equal to the weight lifted, times the height it is lifted, times the number of lifts. You could fly your gos to a kite (I know one guy who has a gos going up 300 feet!). Let's say 100 feet, times the weight of the bird, say 2lbs. That is 200 ft/lbs per flight. Or you could call your hawk five foot vertical distance to the fist. If my theory is correct, 20 jump ups should be equal to one flight to the kite. Or we can attach a 1lb weight to the hawk's swivel, a lot less jump ups ought to be the same as the same amount of work. Does that make sense? (Sorry, the maths lost me! Never was any good at sums!).

BTW, I am not on commission so if nobody thinks this makes sense and isn't interested in trying it, that's OK with me!<vbg> The best exercise of all for a hawk, of course, is flying wild quarry. It's a lot more fun, too!

Jack

[The Late Lord Lucan]

I have used the trolley system in the past & liked it. If had a space large enough that was protected from possible vermin/predators I would still be using it.
They place tennis balls through the static wire at either end which act as shockers for the swivel and leash as they slide from one end to the other.
If you have a 'solid looking' hut at each end, as in Jack's picture, this shouldn't be necessary. The bird comes to a dead stop because it is trying to fly and has come to the end of its leash. If you have something in its way, such as the 'hut', it's very much less likely to pile head first into that.
And unless it piles into it and goes through the other side, it's not going to reach the end of the leash to bring it to an abrupt halt.

Jack wrote...
Again, jump ups are work. Work is equal to the weight lifted, times the height it is lifted, times the number of lifts. You could fly your gos to a kite (I know one guy who has a gos going up 300 feet!). Let's say 100 feet, times the weight of the bird, say 2lbs. That is 200 ft/lbs per flight. Or you could call your hawk five foot vertical distance to the fist. If my theory is correct, 20 jump ups should be equal to one flight to the kite. Or we can attach a 1lb weight to the hawk's swivel, a lot less jump ups ought to be the same as the same amount of work. Does that make sense? (Sorry, the maths lost me! Never was any good at sums!)
All seems to make sense to me, like you, maths was never my strong point, so I couldn't confirm wether it is technically correct!
Again, like yourself, I agree that there is no substitute for wild quarry.
When I flew my last Gos, I used jump ups in conjuction with an 'electric bunny' lure for the days when I couldn't get on the wild stuff.
The electric bunny can give a run of up to a 1000ft at anything up to about 70mph, you can also make it jink left & right, run away and back again etc.

Regards,
Lucky.

[Jack Merlin]

The electric bunny can give a run of up to a 1000ft at anything up to about 70mph, you can also make it jink left & right, run away and back again etc.

That I could do with! Can we have more information, please?

I was thinking about setting up something like that but have the lure disappear down a drain pipe. My idea was to train the gos to return to the fist when the rabbit disappeared underground, rather than have the stupid bird sat on the edge of the hole peering down while more bunnies exit (laughing) from holes behind him!

Jack

[The Late Lord Lucan]

'Turbo Bunny' was made from an 'inertia' type starter motor, the type that was on the old mini's and x-flow ford engines.
I had all the gubbins on the shaft removed and attached a plastic spool on the end. The spool was an old reel that contained mig welding wire.
I fixed all this lot inside a box about 15 or 16" square. I also fixed in a solenoid. This is all virtually fully enclosed.
The wires run to 4 bolts that stick out of the top of the box, two large & two small.
I just run jump leads onto the two large bolts, and attach a small switch to the small ones, press the switch and away you go.
There are a few issues to addres. Using a 12volt supply, it is frighteningly fast, 6volt seems to be much better. It doesn't put much drain on the battery, as there is hardly any load on it.
Also, the line has to have a little tension kept on it, or it over-runs, it also has to be fed to keep it even on the spool. I do this, by just gently holding it with a gloved hand. Should anything get caught on the line, my fingers included, this could be a problem. It would have no problem dragging a 13.5 stone man across the field! A bit scary, but you just have to be careful.
If the line is run around even just stubble in a field, it is possible to make the lure turn and jink quite well. To make it run away from me, I just stick a small twig in the ground and run the line around it and back again.

It's out on loan at the moment, which is frustrating, because I have a feeling it's probably sitting in the boot of a car not that far from where you live!
I could have had it dropped round for you to look at.
I have a feeling my friend is coming home tomorrow, I'll get it back and get some photo's done so you can see how I've done it.

Regards,
Lucky.

[Jack Merlin]

I have a feeling it's probably sitting in the boot of a car not that far from where you live!

Now you've got me thinking!<vbg>

I know where you are coming from on the electric bunny. I made up something similar for training lurchers. At that time I managed to get hold of a starter motor with a manual start button on the solenoid. Cannot remember what vehicle it came off. Must have a word with my local auto-electrician.
I've seen a car jacked up and a wheel replaced with the bare rim and the cord of the dummy tied to that for greyhound flapping. Just use the gears and accelerator to get the right speed! But, of course, it's then a two man operation.

Here's an idea for you:
http://www.rfsolutions.co.uk/acatalog/Keyfob_Trap_Release_System.html


Jack

[Bill]

Here's a solution although it is a bit on the bulky side. Ok if you can leave it at your exercise site or get a bke rack!

Pedal power not quite fast enough although not to bad if you give the bunny a good start. Alternative is a cordless electric drill on the pedal crank which saves you energy and is very fast.

The line is 50lb breaking strain fisshing line.

[Varmint]

That brings back memories mate!

I use a mechanical sheep clipping machine these days, converted for the purpose by the terrier boys.

Slow wind, high gears just the ticket!

Carefull Andy! one slip and you'll be in Manchester :wink:

[Bod]

Nice one Andy.

Glad to see it came to fruition

[The Late Lord Lucan]

What is it that you have used as the guide?

Regards,
LLL.

[Moses]

mate its nice and a good idea, never seen anything like it :)

do u make sheds and avairys too mate

[Moses]

sorry one more thing i wanted to ask u guys, do hawks not get frostbite out in the snow
or to the feathers prevent that

cheers

[Jack Merlin]

I had problems with lanners many years ago getting oedema (watery blisters) in the wing joints. It was definitely temperature as putting a heater in the mews cured it.

[Kevin Massey]

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7137895247&ssPage Name=STRK:MEWA:IT

[Tim Laycock]

I have seen a fox skin dragged behind a motor bike to get eagles fit and switched on to tail chases.
The pillion rider holds the line to the dummy and shouts instruction to the rider (faster or slower).
When the eagle hits the dummy the pilion rider simply lets go of the line

[Bill]

What is it that you have used as the guide?

Regards,
LLL.

It's a strong fishing rod ring bound onto the metal frame. It may have been better to weld a metal loop on although it would cause more wear on the line.

[Sean]

have u seen this jack lol?
http://www.themodernapprentice.com/mews.htm

[ColdZero]

[quote="Sean"]have u seen this jack lol?
http://www.themodernapprentice.com/mews.htm[/quote

i hope they asked your permission... :shock: or maybe you are a fraud whohas no bird :evil: lol

[Jack Merlin]

have u seen this jack lol?
http://www.themodernapprentice.com/mews.htm

Yes, published with my permission, hence the introduction at the top and the link at the bottom! OK?

[Sean]

opps lol didnt even read it just seen teh pics lol

[Miguel Gomez]

I think the trolley system isnt very new.
Here in good old Germany we use it for years.
If you are planning one, just keep in mind that
ist should not be too long and that the hawk needs
some place to hide.
Keep in mind that everything should be placed in
that way that the hawk kannot tangle inself!

All the Best,

Claas :o))

[Wilfred]

Hey Claas!

I suppose we know each other? ;-)

Wilfred