Training to hunt ground quarry

[Becci]

I'm doing a degree in Animal Behaviour and Training and am currently researching the selection and training of raptors to hunt ground quarry (e.g. rabbits,hares, squirrels,ducks etc). The assignment is due next Tuesday, but any help you could offer before then would be much appreciated.
I'll make it as brief as possible...

1. What breeds are best for hunting ground quarry, and why?
2. How are appropriate birds sourced, and selected (e.g. any specific breeding programmes)?
3. How successful is the selection process?

4. What methods are used for training, and at what stages (inc. any exercises taught)?
5. Average duration of training programme?
6. How successful are the training methods?

I'm sorry these questions are so open ended and a bit vague, but i'm trying not to go on too much! Even if you only fancy answering a few questions, that would be a great help.
Any published work or research (e.g. journals, websites, books etc) that you could recommend would be great too, although my resources are limited.
Any information I use will be referenced and acknowledged in my work.

Thank you all!
Becci :D

ps. If it is easier or you would prefer, feel free to respond via private message too. Thanks again!

[Falconer]

Hi Becci
Welcome to the forum, i'm sure some of the more experienced guys and gals can help out here.

[Hawkmaster]

I'm doing a degree in Animal Behaviour and Training and am currently researching the selection and training of raptors to hunt ground quarry (e.g. rabbits,hares, squirrels,ducks etc). The assignment is due next Tuesday, but any help you could offer before then would be much appreciated.
I'll make it as brief as possible...

1. What breeds are best for hunting ground quarry, and why?
2. How are appropriate birds sourced, and selected (e.g. any specific breeding programmes)?
3. How successful is the selection process?

4. What methods are used for training, and at what stages (inc. any exercises taught)?
5. Average duration of training programme?
6. How successful are the training methods?

I'm sorry these questions are so open ended and a bit vague, but i'm trying not to go on too much! Even if you only fancy answering a few questions, that would be a great help.
Any published work or research (e.g. journals, websites, books etc) that you could recommend would be great too, although my resources are limited.
Any information I use will be referenced and acknowledged in my work.

Thank you all!
Becci :D

ps. If it is easier or you would prefer, feel free to respond via private message too. Thanks again!

Welcome to the forum Becci and remember to pass the word around.

We use the same birds that normally catch ground quarry in the wild, as one that goes mainly for birds is not much good or may specialise in another area.

Birds are captive bred, and you pay your money and get your bird is the truth of most peoples selection although amuch ado about nothing seems to happen in the selection process.

Tradional Falconry techniques are used, the same that has been done for 5000 years, well almost.

My average training period is 10 days but this varies from person to person and bird to bird.

Most people will catch something or the other at sometime as BOPs are just good like that.

HTH?

Paul

[ColdZero]

k i will give really quick answers....but wait for more experienced people to answer though.

1. from the genus 'accipter'-goshawks have the speed, power and agility to take nearly all quarry. Their relatively short wingspan helps in woodland (their natural habitiat)
all broadwinged hawks (buteo)(and eagles (aquila???)) take ground quarry.

2. not quite sure what you mean...selective breeding? or the wild stock? as an example...goshawks from finland are generally bigger, and many falconers look for larger birds as they have the power to take on larger prey.

3. ummm imo very succesful....again not sure on this question.

4.Whether the bird is wild caught, or captive bred the first stage is manning (taming). Then the bird is fed on the fist, and asked to step up. The gap is gradually increased until it is flying long distances (on a line) then can be allowed to fly free.

5. depends on the species, individual bird and falconer. The most common bird flown, the harris hawk is very fast to train. Almost anyone can haveit flying free in under 2 weeks imo.

6. Well when it ******s off...not very Again, it all depends. Harris' rarely fly away, while a sparrowhawk is very likely to.


hope i helped, i am a beginner so don't quote me on anything.

[Hawkmaster]

6. Well when it ******s off...not very Again, it all depends. Harris' rarely fly away, while a sparrowhawk is very likely to.


HHs are the most commonly lost bird in the UK :lol:

[ColdZero]

ah yes, but they are also the most common bird flown by beginners. Percentage wise i think they come back the most :)

[Hawkmaster]

Not always true I only started losing hawks once I knew how to train them. Beginners tend to err on the side of causion and can more careful, but yes you are probably right. :lol:

[OutOnAWing]

as hm said most lost because we all think hh are so reliable and get complacent and do not use telementry

[Red Sheridan]

Hi Becci,

Well that told you then!!!

Two responses to your enquiry before the topic turned into a discussion about lost Harrises. Personally I don't think I'd bother putting the word around if that's all the help you're gonna get.

Maybe, if you're really, really good Julian will answer all your questions cos he's got 40 years (yawn) experience, as he constantly reminds everybody on every list he's ever appeared on.....................ho hum!

All the best,
Red

[Hawkmaster]

Come on Red where is your contribution then? Help the lady out and show everyone how to do it?

[Red Sheridan]

And just in case there's more than one Julian on the list. Yes, it's Julian Stevens I mean...................zzzzzzz
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
zz z
z

[Gaz]

I'm doing a degree in Animal Behaviour
Hey Becks,come down to Walkabouts on Friday night.....might learn a few things......... :finga: :drinkers: :mrgreen: :twisted:

[Hawkmaster]

I am a bit concerned about that red smiley? :shock:

[Gaz]

Not half as concerned as Becks would be if she came down Walkabouts.... :finga:

[Red Sheridan]

Too late HM, I've already sent the lady a pm well before the first reply. As we find that we know each other well, it seemed the only courteous thing to do.

Be warned Becci don't go to Walkabouts, I reckon this Gaz geezer has a hidden agenda. :rolleyes: And that's without knowing him! If he knew just what a stunner you are he'd probably go walk about the 300 miles between you just to meet you. I know I would. (do I score points for that one?)

Rock on Tommy :supz:

Regards,
Red

[Falconry Equipment International]

Hi Beccie, to throw the proverbial spanner in the works A close friend ( and well known author in gamehawking circles) of mine has been working on flying a Female Gyrx Sakerxperegrine at Hare (& Gulls).This is a very different discipline to flying at bunnies with harrises, Rt's etc. If you would like any more information on this most testing of disciplines within the constaints of the Uk ,please me let me know

[Bubo]

Hi becci i'm sorry i cant help you out with your questions as i fly owls not any other bop.

i cant believe it but since HM pointed out that red smiley, i have just noticed it was sticking up the middle finger. i thought it was a thumbs up and have sent it to one or two people. that is a real bummer. no wonder i had no replies. If anyone got this smiley from me i do appologise.
bubo

[Becci]

Hi all,
I suppose I should have mentioned that I do have a reasonable amount of knowledge about this subject, so please, if the posted comments ever return back to the original topic, don't feel you have to simplify it for my benefit. I have received some extremely helpful information (Thankyou very much Red! :D ) and also some useful pm's and comments which are greatly appreciated. But if it is possible to return this wandering thread to the matter in hand, any more help would be wonderful.

Thanks!
Becci

ps. a grateful thank you goes to Harris Hawker for the interesting and helpful pm. :)

pps. Think I'll pass on that night at Walkabout - I work in a restaurant and the chefs there are good enough studies for animal behaviour! But cheers anyway!

[Becci]

Can I request a little more information from Hawkmaster's reply?

"We use the same birds that normally catch ground quarry in the wild"
- Such as? I know there are a number of birds that can perform adequately, but which are the BEST, and what qualities makes them so?

"Birds are captive bred, and you pay your money and get your bird is the truth of most peoples selection although amuch ado about nothing seems to happen in the selection process. "
- So people would buy the first bird they came across? This may unfortunately be the case for some novices, but I would have thought that the more experienced falconers would be more discerning. For example, would a knowledge of the parents' history like temparment, hunting ability etc not have some influence on selection? What about an inspection of the bird itself - overall condition? Is it better to buy a youngster or a older bird thats already hunted?

"Tradional Falconry techniques are used, the same that has been done for 5000 years, well almost. "
- Can you expand on the methods of traditional falconry at all?

"My average training period is 10 days but this varies from person to person and bird to bird. "
- Would I be right in assuming that this is for a bird that has already been trained in previous seasons and is simply having a 'refresher course'? Or starting from scratch with an untouched bird?

Sorry, I don't mean to seem ungrateful and I do appreciate your response and your help. But final year of a degree requires quite specific detail! I do have a number of books for extra research, but I thought the opinions of other falconers would be very beneficial.

Thanks!

Becci

ps. Thank you Coldzero! Think I forgot you in my previous acknowledgements! You may only be a beginner (everyone has to start somewhere!), but I am very grateful for your contribution, and you seem to know what you are talking about - your information concurs with that of another very experienced and respected falconer that I have spoken to if thats any reassurance?! :)

[Hawkmaster]

"We use the same birds that normally catch ground quarry in the wild"
- Such as? I know there are a number of birds that can perform adequately, but which are the BEST, and what qualities makes them so?

To be honest mother nature has already destined certain birds for certain jobs like falcon comsume mainly birds and hawwks mainly ground quarry. In the UK we use HHs, RTs Gosses etc and to answer which is the best it all depends on MANY factors, like how well they are trained, how much quarry there is etc, personally I feel, if one is to make is a level playing field, and everyone knows what I amgong to say, a Gos is the Best!

So people would buy the first bird they came across?

Unfortunately price does pay a roll, but most people ask the correct question and probably, whether it is true or not get the correct answers.
At the time of purchase a visual inspect is always done or should be.

Is it better to buy a youngster or a older bird thats already hunted?

Depends on a persons situation, they may work and only have time to fly or not want to train. Personally I new bird is always my preference.

Can you expand on the methods of traditional falconry at all?

The basics steps I use:
1. Manning and this never ends with the birds throughout training or it lifetime.
2. Feed on the fist.
3. Step up to the fist.
4. Jump to the fist.
5. Fly indoors to the fist.
6. Outdoor Creance work
7. Flying Free
8. Fittness
9. Hunting

Would I be right in assuming that this is for a bird that has already been trained in previous seasons and is simply having a 'refresher course'? Or starting from scratch with an untouched bird?

New birds of of to a medium size, under 3lbs.

No problem anytime you need more, just shout.

[Gaz]

Think I'll pass on that night at Walkabout
SHEEITTTT :!:
"SHOT DOWN IN FLAMES...SHOT DOWN IN FLAMES......AINT IT A SHAME...TO BE SHOT DOWN IN FLAMES...."

[Becci]

Well the assignment is done now, so thanks to everyone who provided me with some helpful information, I really appreciate it.

Happy hawking! :-)

Becci