Imprint female

[Javier]

Hi all!!, in two months i´ll have an imprint female (brookey),this falcon will be my first imprint and i want make a waiting on bird, so i have a few questions in my head :confused::

1.- when i start to fly she, I reduce the weight a little or i have to fly she totally fat? i have ear dispair answers and i don´t know what i´ll do exactly.
If i have to reduce the weight, i suppos that this reduction is the minimum to obtain a best behaviour of the bird, it´s ok?

2.- I have a lot of time to make semi-hacking? what do you think if i fly the falcon 3 hours per day, it´s correct? with less time is ok or need more time? I think that is ok, but...

3.- I´ll train the bird with pigeons, but, when have i to start to release the pigeons? in the moment that is normal that the falcon take the first catchs in the wild state, 3 or 4 weeks? more late?

4.- And the kite? it´s only a method with imprint semi-hacked birds that don´t want go high?

Thank you very much, i will make more questions later, I´m nervious to make a good bird!!!

[Craig S]

i have found the lower the weight of the bird the less height it will gain, in other words the fatter the bird the higher it will climb especially with imprints.

i dont like hacked birds for game hawking as they tend to learn there are easier ways of making a kill. thats just my opinion but its open for debate.

i've used a kite a couple of times but have had better results casting the bird off at the top of a hill and walking to the bottom with a stiff wind blowing up it. when the bird gains some height reward her with the lure. dont expect 1000's of feet straight away, soon she will learn with height comes rewards.
i have seen kite trained birds that would only gain height when the kite was present, if it wasnt theyed just circle the falconer.

i hope this is of some use.

[Kashai]

Hi all!!, in two months i´ll have an imprint female (brookey),this falcon will be my first imprint and i want make a waiting on bird, so i have a few questions in my head :confused::

1.- when i start to fly she, I reduce the weight a little or i have to fly she totally fat? i have ear dispair answers and i don´t know what i´ll do exactly.
If i have to reduce the weight, i suppos that this reduction is the minimum to obtain a best behaviour of the bird, it´s ok?

2.- I have a lot of time to make semi-hacking? what do you think if i fly the falcon 3 hours per day, it´s correct? with less time is ok or need more time? I think that is ok, but...

3.- I´ll train the bird with pigeons, but, when have i to start to release the pigeons? in the moment that is normal that the falcon take the first catchs in the wild state, 3 or 4 weeks? more late?

4.- And the kite? it´s only a method with imprint semi-hacked birds that don´t want go high?

Thank you very much, i will make more questions later, I´m nervious to make a good bird!!!

Hi,

As I fly an imprinted wildhacked female peregrine, I have my own opinion as well:)

I think, that wildhack causes NOTHING bad (my bird was flying for 3.5 weeks free). Everything depends on you. I don't think, that during wildhack a falcon learns the "easy way" of hunting. Normally they don't hunt at all, only fly and play. And you give fresh meat, so they do not connect the meat with other birds, rabbit, etc, as a quarry. They learn how to fly, and how to use their abilities.

If you reduce the weight for a young falcon, then she (being an imprint) will be bonded to you MORE, so I think the same as Craig, they will loose hight. The thing you need is not CONDITION MANAGEMENT, but "APPETITE MANAGEMENT". Feed your bird well, and if she doesn't want to do the things you want, then punish her with lure training, or bagged pigeons, she cannot take, anything, that makes her fly a lot, and get tired, and loose energy. After this you may feed her with a half crop. If next time she does the thing you want, give her an easy meal, and reward her well!

If you reduce weight, prepare to have a mantling screamer!

If you do not wild hack, semi hack is good as well, if you have time. No matter, if 2, 3 or 4 hours, the more the better.

By the end of the wild(semi) hack you may fix a pigeon for her, and teach her to kill, and learn the pigeon as reward. After this you can serve her any time during training.

Concerning condition, I keep my bird as high as I can during training, so if I want to go to hunt, and reduce weight, it's still rather high, but the bird has enough hunger. But for this, she MUST fly a lot. At least 4-6 serious chases for bagged pigeons, or 80+ stoops on the lure.

I think imprint females are the best birds, and the brookei is a very good flyer, I wish You a perfect season!

Kashai

[Craig S]

Kashai if you stoop your bird to the lure surely it wont gain much height, but just circle you waiting for the lure?

i have hacked several birds, i found they made great crow hawks but wouldnt gain much height they seemed happier cruising around looking for things to tail chase. i would love to here how yours performed and whether or not you have had the same experiences.

[SkyChecker]

Hi Javier,

in many points of view I do agree with Tega and Craig. I wild hacked and semi hacked several falcons. All my birds were parent reared as I was afraid of heavy mantling and screaming habits. But I will try an imprint some day...
A very skilled falconer I know is keeping his imprint peregrine tiercel most of the year in free flight around his home in a big city (since 7 or 8 years!), reducing him slightly in condition when planing to hunt. Incredible flyer. I think Ricardo Velarde does something comparable.

In my opinion the best way to get a bird at hack flying a lot, is first to put him to a really windy site and second to let him fly with at least one companion. Maybe you can arrange with a friends bird?!
Footing abilities are improved a lot if the birds can practise their natural behaviour of "mocking combat", which means chasing and catching each other as a game. This behaviour in nature occures at an average age of life of 47 days (males) and 50 days (females). The first prey is taken at an average age of 73 / 77 days of age. So this is my guideline for being careful in avoiding the falcons to catch undesired game. As you are allowed to use bagged game in Spain, you may think about to influence this initial experience after your choice...

I have practised hacking for falcons dedicated to pursuit flights at crows and gulls with very good success.
In contrast to Craig, I also hack my falcons for waiting on falconry without having the feeling of teaching them behaviours that cause problems later on. I also do use the kite for these birds. This year I want to introduce parachutes to my kite training. Steve Schwartze recently made some excellent comments on this theme. I recommend to study his replies if you are interested in perfect kite training.

Hacking falcons properly is pure leisure to me! So good luck with your brookei female - train a stunner and have fun, fun, fun!
A peregrine is a peregrine is a peregrine (Dick Dekker "A bolt from the blue")!!!

Hope I could help.

Regards
Matt

One more thing: take care to prevent coccidiosis - it is the main reason for young falcons to die and will guarantee a screamer, you surely don`t want.

[Kashai]

Kashai if you stoop your bird to the lure surely it wont gain much height, but just circle you waiting for the lure?

i have hacked several birds, i found they made great crow hawks but wouldnt gain much height they seemed happier cruising around looking for things to tail chase. i would love to here how yours performed and whether or not you have had the same experiences.

I think, that it is a myth, that lure trained birds do not mount. Concerning wildhacked imprints (as my best friends fly only them), my opinion is, that the point is, not to reduce weight for making appetite, but make the bird fly a lot, & loose energy. I made this mistake, not to punish my bird with lure training, but let her eat less, in case of not working well. It can cause screaming or even mantling. As I didn't teach lure chasing for my old peregrine (you can see her in the "The Excellent Average" thread), I had to make her chase a lot by racing pigeons, which does not work after a while, as the falcons kills every pigeon I serve.

My friend last year falcon took a goose by chance, and a lapwing, but after moult, for the second freeflight kicked down a magpie to death. This was one of the best falcons I've ever seen ( pure peregrine). And if she hadn't performed well, my friend stooped her to the lure for 130-150 times. I can tell you, next day this falcon was 2 times higher, waiting for an easy kick for rooster. And she was trained for waiting on, not for pursuit.

If you don't reduce the weight too much (as my friends say - if you do not fall out with your imprint hawk), your bird will be a non-sreamer, non-mantler BEAUTY!

Go ahead!:))

One more thing: Matt is right!

Kashai

[Javier]

Hi Craig,Kashai and Matt, thanks a lot for yours comments.:)
In my land there are windy hills so i´ll try start the semi-hacking there. I hope that the falcon climb high in the sky, and Matt I´ll follow your coment about the age of the first kill in the will to start to release pigeons but if the falcon don´t go to a good pitch I´ll try with the kite. What age you start with the kite training? i´ll search the Steve Schwarze coment about these.

Thanks a lots again and I hope the best of flights with yours birds.
Regards.
Javier

[SkyChecker]

Hi Craig,Kashai and Matt, thanks a lot for yours comments.:)
In my land there are windy hills so i´ll try start the semi-hacking there. I hope that the falcon climb high in the sky, and Matt I´ll follow your coment about the age of the first kill in the will to start to release pigeons but if the falcon don´t go to a good pitch I´ll try with the kite. What age you start with the kite training? i´ll search the Steve Schwarze coment about these.


Hi Javier,
windy hills are fine. If you have sufficient quality pigeons, I think there is no need to use the kite. But I would recommend to introduce it in any case during the first flying season, because it is a very useful tool to get the falcon fit after the moult. Some birds are difficult to get keen on it when introduced in the second year or later. So better make sure this option in the first year. "Duck Hawking" by Roy III may possibly be interesting literature for you.
"Any tips for first timer using a kite" is the thread where you will find Steve Schwartze`s mentioned comments...

All the best and keep us updated
Matt

[Javier]

Hi Matt, thank you again. Yesterday i was seeing my new bird, well, i was seeimg 3 females that are being breeding in double imprinting. Now they have about 16 days and they appear as possible big birds, we´ll see. I can´t take the falcon until 24 of june, so when I take she I´ll post some photos.
I go to speak with a friend in order to try fly our new falcons together, i hope that is possible. I have racers pigeons and windy hills, so I go to train in this way but i think that you have reason to introduce the falcon to the kite not only for get she fitted, else to a medium to recover in case of lose the bird, it´s my main fear, and the "hunters".
Now i go to read the comment of the Steve about the kite training, i bought a connelly kite and is very stable, so I go to introduce the new falcon and a peregrine(male)that is now in the first moult to get fit.
Thanks Matt:lol:
Regards

[Javier]

Hi King, thanks for your replay, I think as you with chamber raised birds but i think that with imprint birds the things are in other diferent way. I think that with an imprint bird in a semi-hacked training a lower weight link the bird to the falconer too much in this stage and need a big weight to be more independient, but I have flown only parent reased peregrines and some hibryds, so I speak without any experience with imprint falcons. If the imprint bird is fat and alone i suposse that she will pass a lot of time sitting, but not too much because is a young bird and want know the sky and surrounders.
Please, if I´m in mistake say me.:grin:
Best Regards
Javier

[Kashai]

Hi King, thanks for your replay, I think as you with chamber raised birds but i think that with imprint birds the things are in other diferent way. I think that with an imprint bird in a semi-hacked training a lower weight link the bird to the falconer too much in this stage and need a big weight to be more independient, but I have flown only parent reased peregrines and some hibryds, so I speak without any experience with imprint falcons. If the imprint bird is fat and alone i suposse that she will pass a lot of time sitting, but not too much because is a young bird and want know the sky and surrounders.
Please, if I´m in mistake say me.:grin:
Best Regards
Javier

I think you are right. And I think in the summer you have enough termals around in Spain, to lift a curious imprint up to the moon. THEN you may reward her, and in some days the falcon will perfectly know where to fly, and why!

K

[Javier]

Hi Kashai !! i don´t see the day of take my falcon and start to fly, my land isn´t a good land to make waiting on because is very enclosed but there are some open places with hills where is possible. Yesterday i was dreaming with the first day that the falcon fly, so I´ll go to the doctor to study my obsession.:ctf:

[Kashai]

Hi Kashai !! i don´t see the day of take my falcon and start to fly, my land isn´t a good land to make waiting on because is very enclosed but there are some open places with hills where is possible. Yesterday i was dreaming with the first day that the falcon fly, so I´ll go to the doctor to study my obsession.

Your obsession 's only treatment is FALCONRY! I know, it's hard to wait - I (we all) suffer from the same desease:) You do not need a doctor, only if it's a SHE!!:supz:

It's not a big problem, if your territory is enclosed during practise. You only need a spot, where your bird can start, and find you, even if it is only as big, as a football field with forest around. Later on, as you start to hunt, it's over, but for tame hack you need only space ABOVE:)! And try to avoid electricity within at least 1-2km! Because if your bird gets tired, then wants to sit down NEAR you! Further electric lines doesn't mean normally a problem, but sometimes the best is a big tree close to you with dry branches.

You can take your bird anytime, as she is an imprint:))) But you can start with her even 1 week before hardpenning (40-42 days). But you know!: NO WEIGHT REDUCE - ONLY LOVE!!!!

K

[Javier]

Hi !!, I´m finding the correct place to make the semi-hacking, I have a high mountain close to my city but I´m afraid to fly there because the falcon put the eyes in the city and see lots of pigeons, What do you think about?
And boys, what are your birds?

Kashai, if my doctor was a women y get other new and good obsession.:heart:

Regards

[Kashai]

Hi !!, I´m finding the correct place to make the semi-hacking, I have a high mountain close to my city but I´m afraid to fly there because the falcon put the eyes in the city and see lots of pigeons, What do you think about?
And boys, what are your birds?

Kashai, if my doctor was a women y get other new and good obsession.:heart:

Regards

Hi,

My friend just wildhack 6! falcons right at the edge of our capital! I can tell you, if a falcon may see a lot of pigeons, then those do! The point to feed them ONLY WITH FRESH MEAT! You must clean them completely from feathers, so the chck will not recognize the pigeons as "meat-source".

If you take alook at "Pursuit hawking with gladiators", you can meet my "this year" birds!:)

K

[Javier]

Hi everybody!! my poor brain is thinking about a new question:goodman:
Are there any differences at the time of fly a falcon in semi-hacking regarding that the falcon is not a full imprinted bird(imprint only with humans), just is a double imprinted (falcons brothers and human)?
The chicks are in a group and the breeder feed they and pass some time with they, so i think that the falcon will have the same behaviour that a full imprinted because the first falcons are imprinted with humans too altougth in a less proportion and they assume that the man is the father because is feeding they. I´m right?

Kashai, I was seeing your birds in the "gladiators" thread and they are nice falcons, How was they in the hunt?

Regards
Javier

[Kashai]

Hi everybody!! my poor brain is thinking about a new question:goodman:
Are there any differences at the time of fly a falcon in semi-hacking regarding that the falcon is not a full imprinted bird(imprint only with humans), just is a double imprinted (falcons brothers and human)?
The chicks are in a group and the breeder feed they and pass some time with they, so i think that the falcon will have the same behaviour that a full imprinted because the first falcons are imprinted with humans too altougth in a less proportion and they assume that the man is the father because is feeding they. I´m right?

Kashai, I was seeing your birds in the "gladiators" thread and they are nice falcons, How was they in the hunt?

Regards
Javier


I think, You are right! I doesn't matter, if the bird is imprint, or dual imprint, the question, is if the're tame or not. The way of feeding, and the risk of going to strangers may change by this...

"How was they in the hunt?" What do you mean by this? They're chicks:) So far the hunt me! The relatives of the pealei fathered birds are marvellous waiting on birds, and there is no experience with the shahin hib. But I'm not worrying. I think I will try to kill everything around by them...:)

K

[Javier]

Hi Kashai!!, I just read 2006 in the date of your post, so I thoug that they were big birds now!!
You´ll make the two birds in waiting on or for pursit? I see some red naped saheen and they were beautiful birds and agressive, so I hope that your tribid with this blood can hunt elephants:supz:

[Kashai]

Hi Kashai!!, I just read 2006 in the date of your post, so I thoug that they were big birds now!!
You´ll make the two birds in waiting on or for pursit? I see some red naped saheen and they were beautiful birds and agressive, so I hope that your tribid with this blood can hunt elephants

Hi Javier,

I hope, that your occupation is not inspector. 2006 is my JOIN date. The title of my thread is PURSUIT HAWKING with gladiators. Now, how do you think, I want to hunt with my falcons? No, not by waiting on, but by pursuit hawking:) You are a lucky guy, as my wife has worked in Mexico, and Spain, so I really respect Spanish people!:) You really made me laugh! Any more question? (My beauty is really right - she said, that the heat went on the head of the Spanish people....)

On the other hand, it will depend on many things, what quarry I can take. I hope, that I will have enough chances for herons, gees, even hares... That would make me satisfied!

K

[Javier]

Hi Kashai!! I promise you that i don´t drink when I´m in the forum, but some times I´m in the moon:rolleyes:

All years I think in take a falcon and make her to pursuit hawking to gulls or crows but finally always I make in waiting on.
I Know a professional falconer that is working in a "rubbish store"?, one day I went to see the falcons hunt the gulls and I love it, but for me will be difficult obtain some gulls to introduce the falcon to hunt, and I´m afraid of a new falcon that go direct into real gull´s hunt. Maybe, some day in the future I´ll try it.

Somebody put the falcon in real hunt without make the introducton first? I´m talking about hunt of dangerous quarry as gulls and crows.

Kashai, say Hi to your wife, and if some time you came to the north of Spain we can meet us, I invite you to eat very good food :partyman: and see the falcons, of course!!

Best Regards

Javier

[Kashai]

Kashai, say Hi to your wife, and if some time you came to the north of Spain we can meet us, I invite you to eat very good food and see the falcons, of course!!

Best Regards

Javier

Hi Javier!

Beware of your promises, maybe You will have to fulfill them! My sweetheart really loves Spain, Spanish people and Spanis food (me certainly the Spanish wine - if you have white as well:drinkers:), so take care of your words, I really would like to try my waiting on bird on your red legged partridges, and if the pursuit ones will work, then those birds on anything. As some of my friends were at You, I really would like to try the "Spanish" possibilities!)

And at least you will not have a human hater non-flyer parent reared :butthead:, but a fine imprint!:supz: (Let them hate us!:))

K

[Javier]

Hi Kashai!! I go to send you a PM
Regards

[Javier]

Kashai, send me your mail to send the photos
Regards

[Kashai]

Kashai, send me your mail to send the photos
Regards

Reply went...

[Javier]

Hi all again!! In 2 days I´ll take my new falcon. In this 2 months I was reading all that I can, so my head is close to an explossion. As all my readings are opinions and articles of falconers and each one has it owns way to make the things based on experience I´m a little confused:rolleyes: but I don´t worry at all because I have my plan by the moment, and I have my teachers, you mates, to resolve my doubts, so I promisse keep updated the thread and post some photos.

Best Regards.

Javier

[Javier]

Hi all!! finally I have the new falcon, she is a nice bird and is a scottish x brookey. By the moment is in 920 gr. and since 1 week ago I´m making the tame hack with the falcon of a friend. What incredible experience for me, I´ll make tame hack always that I can. By the moment my falcon don´t fly too much but yesterday I noticed than she was more active, but I have a little problem, when she start to fly the other falcon that is 20 days more older try the mocking combat and scared my falcon that is going to sit in a pole. Sometimes my falcon is sitted and go direct to catch the other falcon. what do you recomend to me? Wait until my falcon will be a days more older to fly together the other falcon or continuous flying together now? I send some pictures of my falcon "Bandolera", I hope that you like, i´m in love.

[SkyChecker]

Hi Javier,

congratulations to your nice looking baby!
If I would be in your situation, I would continue to let the falcons go together, as long, as they don`t struggle seriously. The key problem is the difference in age and you can`t overcome that by waiting, only by careful observation. Maybe it helps to give your bird an extra hour of flying and a little food before you add your friends bird?! It`s just a try...

Good luck
Regards
Matt

[Javier]

Thanks Matt, today when I arrived to the tame hack place my friend had released his falcon and was flying very far, then I release my falcon and they fly together without attacks, only pursuits, so I´m happy to see that there aren´t more problems in fly both together. I hope that the older falcon improve the flying time of my falcon, I think that will be in this way. Really I´m enjoy with the tame hack.

Best Regards

Javier

[Javier]

Hi, the things appear to be better, the falcon fly each day more time. The two falcons respect between they. Start to fly together and after a short time each one take a different course in the sky. For the other falcon the crows are the main target, don´t import the far that they are, when she see them start to pursuit and it´s plenty of them, but any little bird that pass near enough is pursuited too. My falcon start to pursuit some little bird and yesterday was attacked by a wild falcon in an awesome stoop with no consecuences. The wind always has blown in the place where we make the tame hack except one day before yesterday that was a calm, damp and heat day. Both falcons was sitted during hours, the mine 5 hours with only short flights between poles, and the other falcon only fly when she had seen the crows. So, a very bored day.
Taking in account the maners of both falcons they are almost perfect, they don´t drop the wings nothing while eat, but I have a question, my falcon make the baby squeak when I´m close to her, normal, but when I put my hands very close the baby squeak is hard and she try bit my hands, sometimes I feel that she is playing and don´t hurt me but other times I think that she isn´t playing with me, she don´t bate out of the block, but his behaviour is more agressive, Could be a reminiscence of fear to me, specially to my hands, and I need spend more time close to the falcon and playing with some objects to get she used to my hands?

Regards.

Javier

[SkyChecker]

Hi Javier,
how are things developing? Does your bird still have aggressive tendencies towards your hand? I thought about what the reason could be. If I remember correct, the falcon was raised a couple of weeks by the breeder or somebody else - if so, there may have been happend things that you are paying for now. Touching in an unpleasant way or at the wrong moment in my opinion could be enough to encourage a behaviour you are describing. What´s your meaning about that?

Regards
Matt

[Javier]

Hi Matt, the things aren´t changing too much relative to my hands, when I approaching she try beat my fingers sometimes with force and other times without. Could be that the breeder make some wrong when he was feeding the falcons, I have to call other friend that has a sister of my falcon to know the behaviour. The baby squeak continuous but when I put my hands close to her the noise is too much, I take on the fist and take a while to stop the voices, thanks God.
Relative tame hack, each day fly more and more and pursuit all birds in the sky, I´m very happy, all the evenings I pass 3 hours or more and enjoy, in a few days I´ll introduce to the kite, by the moment the kite is in the sky when the falcon is flying and there aren´t problems, and I want continuous with tame hack so, I just introduce 3 or 4 days to the kite and continuous with tame hack.

Regards

Javier