Weils disease symptoms?

[ColdZero]

What symptoms are shown in BOD if they have weils disease? I am still looking for possible explanations for my birds death
Ha anybody had experince with this disease?

[Hawkmaster]

Leptospirosis & Weil’s Disease
What it is
Leptospirosis is a bacterial infection carried in rat’s urine which may contaminate water in lakes, rivers, etc. The bacteria does not survive long in dry conditions or salt water. The risk of infection is greater in stagnant or slow-moving water but cases have occurred in swift moving streams and lowland rivers. There is an enhanced risk where flash floods have washed out rat runs.

The infection is caught by direct contact with the urine or polluted environment. Bacteria enter through skin abrasions or via eyes, nose or mouth.

The usual incubation is 2 to 12 days. Usually a ‘flu’ like illness occurs which resolves in 2-3 weeks. There may be fever, severe headache, pains in the back and calf and prostration. A few cases develop Jaundice, when the condition is known as Weil’s disease.

The Level of Risk
Each year an average of 3 canoeists contract Leptospirosis. It is very rare and it’s deterioration into Weil’s disease even more rare. Weil’s disease is however, a serious ilness and must be swiftly diagnosed and treated. Death may occur in about 15% of Weil’s disease cases (i.e. jaundiced patients) but death without jaundice is virtually unknown. Antibiotics during the first few days help in limiting infection. Many cases recover without specific treatment.

How to prevent It
Cover all cuts and abrasions with waterproof plasters
always wear footwear to avoid cutting the feet
Avoid capsize drill or rolling practice in suspect waters
Where possible shower soon after canoeing
If in doubt contact your doctor early.

What to do if you think you may be infected
If you think you may have the infection go to your doctor and explain that their may be a risk of leptospirosis. The diagnosis is by clinical suspicion. Blood tests can rarely confirm the illness in time to affect treatment but are needed to subsequently confirm it.

[Gaz]

I think you" ll find he meant in birds......bellend :mrgreen: :twisted: :mrgreen: .........(ill give you word association :!: ) :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Kevin Massey]

mia my female died of it...........she got bit on the foot when she took a rat...within the hour she was in the vets (on a sunday) treated her bite with all manner of stuff + antibiotics, for the first few days she seemed fine then all of a sudden she went off her food...rapid loss of weight .... fed on a drip for 3 days went down and down over them 3 days then died

its heart breaking to see your bird getting lower and lower.

kev

[Kevin Massey]

must add i rang the ibr to inform them....... jenny (@ the time) said that she had another 4 falconers lost birds through the same thing within the last 2 weeks......after a conversation with her ....there are more birds lost through that than i realised

kev

[OhMyGod]

So why let your birds catch rats? Do you think they are good food? All those possible diseases and the chance of posioning?

When will you fly your birds from a hood? You should choose what slips are to be taken, not let you hawks self hunt anything they choose. Have controll. Admittedly rats are easier to catch, probably why they prefer them to rabbits. But I wouldn't let my birds chase them.

[Kevin Massey]

she was following on........

[Kevin Massey]

But I wouldn't let my birds chase them.


no...........you just put them next to a tumble drier outlet........and when they are ill spend loads of tome looking for this forum> open a membership>log in >post a message > wait for obvious replies> then move your ass........

http://www.falconryforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=2021&postdays=0&postorder=asc&star t=0

yea like u know it all?........NOT !!!>>>>

[Kevin Massey]

coldz....

don't know if you get a TV program your way called zoo vet @ large but some of this was featured on there !!!.

although i agreed to it being filmed only when i thought all was ok........but when she got ill i stopped with it, so there ain't no kind of conclusion on the program

Kev

ps dont ask what the program game out like cos i aint seen it till this day

[OhMyGod]

Yeah self hunting, waiting for you to slip somthing, like rats hopefully cos they're easier.

A few rat kills with a harris flying them this way will make them less keen to fly rabbits or birds because they know if they just chase them and throw up at the last minute they can go sit in a tree, then follow on and wait for an easy slip, like baby bunnies or rats.

Flying your birds in this fashion will not get them fit as it does not use the fast twich muscle fibers in the breast. therefore they will not produce more of these, so will go into anaerobic respiration quicker due to lack of oxygen. To get the birds fit enough to have confidence at catching fast prey from good distance you need to make them fly at TOP speed continually until exausted and push on further until all their glycogen levels in the muscles have been depleted. If you make them give it 100% everytime instead of 90% they will be able to take prey from a further distance and keep on it for longer. Admitedly glycogen levels do take a few days to be restored but most H hawks don't get flown daily. I much prefer to fly these birds like goshawks, from a hood so they get used to flying difficult slips and build more confidence and fly at 100% everytime.

Super fit is the key I reckon, for me anyway, I prefer to see a spectacular chase with the bird giving it everything it can.

[Kevin Massey]

any one else on the forum let there harrise follow on?

kev

[Kevin Massey]

o shi t !!!! i let mine soar aswell !!!!!!!!!!

[OhMyGod]

I already explained that my bird was on a cadge at my folks for couple days, I did not know the house or that a drier had been installed this way. When will you stop giving me a hard time for one mistake. I only wanted to know the best vet in my area as all vets say they can treat birds of prey cos they want your money.

I'm only trying to let you see a different point of view. You don't need to be so defensive and hard to talk to all the time, why don't you chill out a bit mate, what you so angry about anyways. Just trying to give you some advice. If you don't want it thats fine, don't use it but others on this forum may try a different approach to what they're used to and find it helps them in the type of land that they fly in. I know harris hawks can be very intelligent and train begginers to fly them how they want to fly, in a slow lazy manner and get fed up at the end anyway. Newbys really struggle with this somtimes, thats why they fly with other h hawkers.

Chill out mister angry

[Kevin Massey]

Just trying to give you some advice.


exactly where in this topic have you tried to give coldzero and advice? let alone have any input to the topic here?

just a thought



kev (mr angry) pmsl

[OhMyGod]

Loads of people go off topic if they think their point is relevent.

Hawkmaster has already cleared this up for us and my point was only that rats carry more disease than just one, and they also eat alot of poison unfortunately and believe me many people have had trouble with birds eating rats. Better to find out by reading rather than like what happened to you and many others over the years. I am just giving a way out if you live in an area where they are numerous, which I think is most places.

[Broadwing]

My MHH also follows on and he too in his time has taken rats, i dont fly him at them.
i dont get your point ohmygod

david

[OhMyGod]

3 posts in seven months and you come on here now at this time of night just to put a post on a thread like this?

heah yeah really nice work maxi mass dude, you're really smart..... not

lol what a sour puss

go to bed

[Kevin Massey]

pardon?

[OhMyGod]

all of a sudden he gone you've logged back on again, well blow me down

[Kevin Massey]

oooooooo im not aloud to look @ other forums now?......just for your interst ive been putting a link to this site on a few other forums over the past few days and ive been reading my mails........

but you are kindof right i do know dave .......

kev

[Kevin Massey]

u really are a fool..........im sure he logs in as an hidden user? not too sure on that but one of the moderators will answer that un for ya

kev

[ColdZero]

thanks for all the great input.....

how do you know when your bird has weils disease?

(sorry if its already been said but i skipped past the bickering)

[Kevin Massey]

i only found out after the post-mortum......but the vet did say they can get a form of the disease.....1 thing did turn up though in the blood test was her white blood cells we high (maybe low cant remember)....but her body was fighting some sort of infection......but as in a lot of other things this is the case

kev

[OutOnAWing]

chill maxi and omg as i said on the prob with owllady,we've got to stick together and help each other. all falconer hav made a mistake in some shape and form and if they say they havn't their lying. kiss and make up like good little boys and go out and play nicely.

tina :lol: :lol: :D

[OhMyGod]

Yeah well said, I'm trying to be friendly to all, problem comes from everytime I voice my opinion (in this case trying to make coldzero realise he may get better sport and learn more on his own than with a group of harris hawkers self hunting) I get constant critisism. And maxi backs himself up with his alias, which is a pointless wast of his time and mine. He would rather win an argument than put the correct information on the forum! which is wrong. I will say what I feel is right, I will not hold back, and I will say it with this user name.

I don't know for sure but I bet he has never flown a bird of any species at the peak of condition and fitness. And probably nothing other than harris. Like to see him fly a gos...... properly

[Broadwing]

3 posts in seven months and you come on here now at this time of night just to put a post on a thread like this?




Its up to myself where and when i post on topic.

Its a shame the mods deleted the first topic i ever got involved in. I have looked in on time to time and my opinion on this forum still has not changed.

David

[Mr. Fong]

Can we get back to the weils disease rather than play he said/she said??
I assume the lab rats we get are free of this junk??

[Hawkmaster]

Welcome Broadwing!

How long you been hawking?

Paul

[OhMyGod]

yep, but I believe its best not to feed rats to birds as we do not want them catching them in the wild. True they are a good source of food for breeding birds and babys, but so is partridge, pidgeon (frozen for a while), pheasants, and other high protein species.

[Bones]

I don't know for sure but I bet he has never flown a bird of any species at the peak of condition and fitness. And probably nothing other than harris. Like to see him fly a gos...... properly
Can some one please tell me why in nearly all the arguments on this forum regarding flying REVOLVES AROUND FLYING AND HUNTING A GOSS of all birds PROPERLY as people keep putting.
Can i just add that maybe most people haven't the ground to fly one to there full potential and fitness levels and secondly the 99% of free time in there life yer need to spend with a GOSS to get it to full potential.
And another thing i fly my HH following on or (self hunting )as stated and find its the best way to fly a harris but then who am i to judge the GREAT GOSS flyers on this forum or anywhere as a matter of fact
And again even if you fly your birds from the hood at selected quarry you can't say for sure that if a rat or other item of unwanted quarry pops its head out its not gonna nail it unless its remote control but then again thats probably why most of you GOSS men and women are so good at hunting yer birds.
and another thing i feed my birds rat every week with no problems in the field i think as long as you are providing enough quarry ther not going to look for rats and smaller items of quarry to catch.
sorry for ranting but just felt i had too say somthing
PAUL

[Kevin Massey]

paul,

i think it was aimed as a personal attack on me bud.

1 thing is right though i could'nt fly a gos properly thats why dont have one......

so you point was ? omg........no arguing , just a question?

kev

[Hawkmaster]

Can some one please tell me why in nearly all the arguments on this forum regarding flying REVOLVES AROUND FLYING AND HUNTING A GOSS of all birds PROPERLY as people keep putting.
Not sure that is all true, but more about people slagging other people and not treating them with rtespect.Can i just add that maybe most people haven't the ground to fly one to there full potential and fitness levels
If you do not have the above then you can't fly anything as a gos will take anything and fly anywhere.and secondly the 99% of free time in there life yer need to spend with a GOSS to get it to full potential.
Not really, maybe in the beginning of training there is MORe but thereafter you may need some time to bring it into condition, like an hour or so on the fist. As far as imprints go I spent less time with my female than my mate with his HH
And another thing i fly my HH following on or (self hunting )as stated and find its the best way to fly a harris but then who am i to judge the GREAT GOSS flyers on this forum or anywhere as a matter of fact
Gosses can also be flown from trees as HH can be flown off the fist, if you had a choice would you not rather have your hawk doing it from the fist for obvious reasons?
And again even if you fly your birds from the hood at selected quarry you can't say for sure that if a rat or other item of unwanted quarry pops its head out its not gonna nail it unless its remote control but then again thats probably why most of you GOSS men and women are so good at hunting yer birds.
Most birds will lock on the the prey and go after that, so I do not really think it actually happens like that, say a pheasant slip and catching a rat, but yes other quarry can sometimes be caught instead.
and another thing i feed my birds rat every week with no problems in the field i think as long as you are providing enough quarry ther not going to look for rats and smaller items of quarry to catch.
I agree! Feeding your bird a certain prey does not make it look for that prey only.

sorry for ranting but just felt i had too say something
PAUL
Hey that is why the forum is here!
Also Paul

[North East Harris Hawker]

mr fong, your lab rats should be free of this infection.
if you do handle rats killed by your bird, make sure you wash your hands well.

[OhMyGod]

My point about rats still stands in my mind, and I still think it is good information. Just because its me giving the info it is knocked down again.

If you feed young hawks rats when they are growing up they become imprinted onto it as a food source. Yes they learn to eat other prey during training but if they are locked onto a game bird and spot a rat I believe they may possibly vear off and take it whereas if it is not an imprinted food source they will pass it by and stay locked onto their prey.

If you are bored and fancy reading this whole thread you will see I am constantly knocked down for trying to give advice to coldzero (no offence but I think he needs it).

It is not me personally attacking you as I have already explained but you do not listen and keep attacking me the whole time! No matter what I say you find a way to twist what I'm saying into somthing it is not and knock me down. I already said I'm trying to be pleasant but you will not let it lye.

WHY DO YOU GET A KICK OUT OF THIS MAXI?

Instead of putting so much effort into putting my opinions down why don't you write any worthwhile posts on any of his threds asking for advice. You search through for my advice then use your arris awk mates to put me down. I can see how people who have only ever flown hh's will think my points are of no concern, because they get good results doing what they are doing with hh's and do not wish to better themselves

[Hawkmaster]

I personally don't believe there is any IMPRINTING of food on hawks, they just know it as another avenue down the road of survival. You can't tell me if you feed a merlin pheasant and pheasants only it will catch them only or even regularly. Or if you took a Gyr and fed it sparrows it would go seeking them out?

You talk about people personally attacking you, this may come from you doing the slating to start with! You clearly PERSONALLY attacked Broadwing and now he has asked Sparrow to remove him from the forum.

WELL DONE! You could have congratulated him on being back and given him good advice. . .

[Bones]

HM wrote
Gosses can also be flown from trees as HH can be flown off the fist, if you had a choice would you not rather have your hawk doing it from the fist for obvious reasons
firstly no i wouldn't as i choose to fly my birds following on as i think it does them more justice on the ground i fly on (being able to spot quarry better from a higher perching)resulting in better and sometimes longer flights
and secondly if its a dig at me personally about my recent loss of my MHH and if i'd flown off the fist then my respect for you has just gone out the window and would have much prefered you to come straight out with what you meant to say so if thats the case then state it as most people on here never really say what they mean just type what they see as best reading when in truth some of it is total **** not digging at anyone in perticular just my oppinion
PAUL
PS nothing against goss flyers in perticular just each to there own and if your doing it justice then fair play and good luck to yous

[The Late Lord Lucan]

If you feed young hawks rats when they are growing up they become imprinted onto it as a food source. Yes they learn to eat other prey during training but if they are locked onto a game bird and spot a rat I believe they may possibly vear off and take it whereas if it is not an imprinted food source they will pass it by and stay locked onto their prey.
My peregrine has been fed all manor of food items, she has never once been tempted to take a rat, even though we see them nearly everytime we fly, quite bizarre don't you think as she eats at least two a week and always has done.
She generally eats two pigeons a week, as a chick, I believe she was brought up by the parents almost excusively on them, funny thing is, she will only chase them if there is nothing else about.
I have seen many Red tails & Harris Hawks fed daily upon dead rabbit, and yet a lot of them still just stare at them the first time they see a live one.

Whilst I get the jist of what you are saying, it doesn't work as simply as you put it and I don't think that people should be as concerned about it as perhaps your message implies.
It is not me personally attacking you as I have already explained but you do not listen and keep attacking me the whole time! No matter what I say you find a way to twist what I'm saying into somthing it is not and knock me down.
With all due respect, you seem to be quite profficient in making very critical and not very helpful posts, again without being rude, most of the time your attitude stinks.

Regards,
Lucky.

[OhMyGod]

I belive broadwing is maxi and if not, I'm sure he was asked to post on this thread by him because of maxi's slatering. You are a mod you know the answer to this.

maxi logs off, broadwing logs on and posts on this thread as soon as he logs on then logs off and instantly maxi logs on. broadwing has not posted 4 messeges in 7 months but comes on and post in the few seconds when maxi is offline. Come on we're not that stupid, its just maxi mass trying to stir up trouble and requesting to be taken off is his way off giving me a slatering from you as well.

I but will not be bullied by anyone. maxi has taken a dislike to me and I'm not the only one.

I have been reasonable with all on this forum and people ask for advice and nobody gives it, they wait for ages with no reply apart from a few exceptions like you. I try and give advice based on my experiences, it may be wrong but its my opinion.

I'll say it again all I wanted to do is show coldzero he is better staying away from rats cos of problems which can happen like to maxi mass

[OhMyGod]

lll your bird is a peregrine and has totally different programming to hhawks mate, come on

some don't even take the lure on the ground

[The Late Lord Lucan]

lll your bird is a peregrine and has totally different programming to hhawks mate, come on

The peregrine was just one example, you obviously missed the harris & redtail bit then.
I guess I must be talking plop then, I'll leave you with your wealth of experience to finish off.

[HawkMan69UK]

i skin my rats and had no problem in the feild just another way around of feeding them if your worried about them hitting them in the field but in my experiance weather it being a harris from the fist or a longwing waiting on or a gos if you flush something they want something and ther fit enough they goona take it just my opinion not sideing with anyone cheers guys

[OhMyGod]

If it is not a real problem how come weils disease is common, amoungs other diseases, from rats, and also poisonings.

To be honest I would be very worried if any of my birds took a rat. Because I know the problems that can arrise.

I think the reason my posts are unhelpfull is because I have to constantly put up with slatering. and defend myself.

http://www.falconryforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=2865&start=0

this thread is somone asking for advice, you read it and put you views across to him because he is confused and is asking for help. I've tried to teach him a few pointers but have not seen many people who are slatering me hear be bothered to help him like I have tried.

You're too busy finding people to put down, and tell him what is so wrong with the advice I have given him so he doesn't get the wrong idea. If you can be bothered to voice your opinion hear about me, then at least be bothered to help out somone in trouble. Have some respect for the guy.

[Kevin Massey]

I belive broadwing is maxi and if not

right.....i do know Dave yes (via moochers forum and also yahoo forums).

the only other names i have used is "mass" and you all know why that was banned"

"jollyboy" (name from my drinking days).....i didn't pursue with that because of all the bad banter that was going around @ that time...it just didn't seem right @ 40y/o having boy in the user name (although i have used it since because my usage in the pics dpt was all used up),

also the 1 i use now !!! thats because its go so many mass's innit..........mass = Massey my surname !!!
.................................................. .................................................. ...

as for personal attacks.....well i obviously upset you when i couldn't take your introduction on this forum seriously and i still stand by that...as for criticism well I'm always willing to take that !!! but what you are saying here is not that.....tell the truth i dunno what it is...

I'm not getting involved in any ****in contest through the forum......it lowers the tone of the place........im just going to carry on doing my thing !!!.

H/M.....dont worry about broadwing the forum has never been his thing from what i gather......i'll catch him sometime over the week..

Kev

[Hawkmaster]

HM wrote
Gosses can also be flown from trees as HH can be flown off the fist, if you had a choice would you not rather have your hawk doing it from the fist for obvious reasons
firstly no i wouldn't as i choose to fly my birds following on as i think it does them more justice on the ground i fly on (being able to spot quarry better from a higher perching)resulting in better and sometimes longer flights
and secondly if its a dig at me personally about my recent loss of my MHH and if i'd flown off the fist then my respect for you has just gone out the window and would have much prefered you to come straight out with what you meant to say so if thats the case then state it as most people on here never really say what they mean just type what they see as best reading when in truth some of it is total **** not digging at anyone in perticular just my oppinion
PAUL
PS nothing against goss flyers in perticular just each to there own and if your doing it justice then fair play and good luck to yous

Did not even know you lost it so it may have been better not to assume anything with me because I say what I think and DO NOT dilly dally around. I was merely say they can be flown from fist or trees, the choice is yours. From what you were saying it sounded like a Gos HAS to be flown from the fist ONLY!

[Hawkmaster]

Broadwing is now gone and it does not matter anymore, the future does. Come on guys, do your best for falconry and yourself.

[ColdZero]

theres too many arguments on this forum, its disappointing this is how the people i admire behave.

OhMyGod, i appreciate your help but please stop patronising me, i have never pretended i don't need more experience, but don't let my age make people treat me different....i wish i'd said i was 30


I spoke to maxi in the chatroom, and i just wanted to know the answer to the basic question 'how can i tell when my bird has weils disease'. Just incase my bird catches a rat by accident and knowing the symptoms would give me something to look out for. Thats all.

[OhMyGod]

The answer to your question was given to you as soon as you posted your question!!!!

i.e. the second post hear!!

[Bones]

Did not even know you lost it so it may have been better not to assume anything with me because I say what I think and DO NOT dilly dally around. I was merely say they can be flown from fist or trees, the choice is yours. From what you were saying it sounded like a Gos HAS to be flown from the fist ONLY!
Sorry for assuming anything but if you take a look at link below see if you agree with the way i took your oppinion

http://www.falconryforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=2746

And secondly i don't strictly believe a Goss has to be flown from the fist only you can fly it however you choose as long as you do the bird justice and your happy with what you and your bird whatever it may be are doing
PAUL

[Hawkmaster]

Fair enough but I never even commented on it or even saw the thread. I still haver nothing to say as stuff happens!

Just relax and have fun.

[OhMyGod]

Nobody is saying you have to fly your birds a perticular way, just that you can consentrate on building up low oxidative fast twitch muscle fibres this way.
Which will make them quick off the mark giving them faster accelleration, faster top end speed and more endurance.

[Kevin Massey]

When will you fly your birds from a hood? You should choose what slips are to be taken

Nobody is saying you have to fly your birds a perticular way, .


not having a dig.....but you do change your mind quite often

kev

[OhMyGod]

Just do what you want maxi mass. I'm not saying you have to do anything

And I will do as I choose also, just as bones will do it the way he wants to.

If you prefer self hunting hawks thats your perogative.
Good luck to you

[Kevin Massey]

u lost me again?? never mind.

kev