Male or Female Peregrine?

[Hawkmaster]

What are the pros and cons of each in respect to gamehawking?:lol:

[Bird_Dog]

Tiercels are pure fun; females can be more problematic, but you can catch anything you want with a female (e.g., the big five)

-- Bird_Dog

[CJTaylor]

tiercels, are pure performers, and will go up naturaly,(no kites neede here), because of their smaller size,more rapid wing beat,they seem to travel faster,but they arent....they lack though the size for say cock pheasant,and occasionaly some will refuse grouse, but some will happily take on both.a femail will take on just about anything, but her flights will be less spectacular, she doesnt attain the height of her male counterpart (usually),but hey she doesnt need to, she has the humf due to her size..But its down to firstly, what your intended quarry is,and secondly your preference of style? good luck...colin

[Jastreb]

I am dirty dark side goshawker :lol: but my vote go to male pere :supz:

I was always impressed with stile and speed :supz:

Cheers Viktor

[Cassini]

I love both , the females defo hard work to get to go up but they will ! As a female
matures she becomes better and better but they are a longer term project and not
for everyone. Tiercels out and out fun and alot just seem to want to do it!
A good one with balls is priceless! One I had would knock down Cock pheasants but
could never hold on and I think if I had handled him better in time would have
learnt to head shot them . If you have smaller game and lots of Partridge to fly
then you cannot beat a tiercel peregrine.

If you enjoy a challenge and have the larger stuff then try a female. Do a good job and she
will repay your hard work in crushing stoops .

For Pursuit I leave someone else to comment on although I know of a few excellent
Tiercel Peregrine Rook hawks.

[HaggisHawker]

I would say that the advantages of a female mainly centre around her being around 30% heavier and therefore more powerful. By contrast, the male is better because he is approximately one third smaller, and therefore more aerial.......?

[Barbary Boy]

the trouble with male peregrines is they tend to be a bit masculine! where as the females tend to be a bit more feminine? males are smaller and females are bigger! hope this helps?

[GregMik]

the trouble with male peregrines is they tend to be a bit masculine! where as the females tend to be a bit more feminine? males are smaller and females are bigger! hope this helps?


Really? And how did you come by this opinion?

Greg

[Hawkmaster]

the trouble with male peregrines is they tend to be a bit masculine! where as the females tend to be a bit more feminine? males are smaller and females are bigger! hope this helps?
Wow that is the sort of input really asked for? Can you actually try and make a better contribution Keith?:rolleyes:

[Cesena]

I have flown males for 5 Years, it is very funny, I have trained it with pigeons. No really difficult to train. I remember in is first flight it went high 30 meters. This year I have decided to change, and between a month a female will arrive.
I have change because I want take pheasants. With my male never take one.
It pitch up over but he never did not touch them or it touched them weakly.
Male 500 Euro famale 1000 Euro:lol:

[Judd Casper]

What are the pros and cons of each in respect to gamehawking?:lol:Both can be great in the right hands the female in my opinion just edges it over the tiercel on large quarry like cock pheasants and drake mallards she can control both these quarries quite comfortably.The tiercel is out of his comfort zone with quarry of this size he is better kept on partridge red grouse and medium to small duck like teal shoveler and wigeon.


Sam

[Dean]

Both are ultimate gamehawks,the female ultimately ace.in my humble opinion she is no more problematic than he! She will however take more variety in no less less style! If your question aims at, is she superior,then me thinks yes!:supz:

[CloakDaggerTiercel]

Both are ultimate gamehawks,the female ultimately ace.in my humble opinion she is no more problematic than he! She will however take more variety in no less less style! If your question aims at, is she superior,then me thinks yes!:supz:


Superior to tiercels in average flying ability and pitch? no way in my opinion.
Superior in being able to wrestle with roosters, yes.
Superior at being an all rounder, No. I think the tiercels can take the big stuff better than the falcons can take the small stuff . Certainly the case with teal, that most of the time won't even flush for a falcon.
Superior at ducks and any other quarry, I wouldn't say they are any better, they probably just bind to stuff more when the tiercels Ive seen take the same stuff out with a well aimed and spectacular hit. Depends what you prefer I suppose.

Of course we're all biased by the birds we've flown or are flying. In my opinion take pheasants out of the equation and tiercels can do everything a female can do and generally they do it in better style (read pitch). Im talking on average as there is obviously superb individuals of both sexes.
Ive had many memorable days in the field with two tiercels, and the idea of someone saying a female would have done it better would have raised a smirk or two.
But I hope to give it a good go with my next female!

Just my take ,
Nick

[HaggisHawker]

Females will never be able to mount as high as tiercels, because they are carrying ovaries and oviducts which weigh the bird down. During the breeding season, active mammary glands can add to the load.

Males regress their testes during the non-breeding season, and then they can be trained to mount up out of sight.

Of course during the breeding season males are weighed down by their gonads, but I have seen this used to clinical effect by them clubbing down quite large waterfowl using their engorged ********.

[Kitana]

During the breeding season, active mammary glands can add to the load.

Would you please explain where you find the mammary glands on a bird? Thanks

[Tacatanach]

Would you please explain where you find the mammary glands on a bird? Thanks

LOL, I read that part and was wondering where I was during ornithology the day they discussed mammary glands in birds, apparently I skipped that day...

[Gyr69]

the trouble with male peregrines is they tend to be a bit masculine! where as the females tend to be a bit more feminine? males are smaller and females are bigger! hope this helps?

LOL here we go again


http://www.lund.irf.se/workshop/images/wine.jpg

[Sokoly]

Mammals have mammary glands, birds ....????
Anyhow tiercels are great on partridges and perhaps in my opinion offer better flights, than falcons do. They are smaller, climb faster, and when hitting the quarry they are a real artists because they have to hit hard and streight in the head. Otherwise they will not be succesful on the ground tackling a quarry as big as say a pheasant. Falcons are better for larger quarry, but they never offered a spectacular flight as tiercels did for me. The problem with tiercels is you don't get every tiercel to fly on partridges or bigger quarry some of them relentlesly refuse to fly the way others do. It all falls to the heart of the raptors we fly.

[Dean]

Nso way in this world or the next can tiercels take large duck as consistently as females! Females can consistently do 8OO-1OOOft pitches,if allowed or indeed needed!Partridge are easily scooped if available!She is not limited,as is the male!As a hunting falcon then she can only be superior!By the way i,m flyin a tiercel this season!:supz:

[CloakDaggerTiercel]

Nso way in this world or the next can tiercels take large duck as consistently as females! Females can consistently do 8OO-1OOOft pitches,if allowed or indeed needed!Partridge are easily scooped if available!She is not limited,as is the male!As a hunting falcon then she can only be superior!By the way i,m flyin a tiercel this season!:supz:

Males peregrines limited are you serious!
They are about the most versatile hunting hawk out there.
It all comes to what you've experienced.
Ive had two tiercels, small ones at that, which made mallard look as routine as the next hawk. Certainly if you look at their kill rate you would struggle to come up with deadlier duck hawks.

With ducks its all about footing and attitude and once they cotton on to hitting them in the head and neck it they become extremely proficient.
They kill as many ducks as females, they just do it in a different way.
Less binds, more hits from what Ive seen.
Attitude comes partly from whats naturally in the birds head and secondly how you develop this by way or entering and wedding them to ducks.

And Im probably flying a female this season!!
Nick

[Kill The Pig]

how would the tiercel compare to the female on crow?

[Sokoly]

Males peregrines limited are you serious!
They are about the most versatile hunting hawk out there.
It all comes to what you've experienced.
Ive had two tiercels, small ones at that, which made mallard look as routine as the next hawk. Certainly if you look at their kill rate you would struggle to come up with deadlier duck hawks.

With ducks its all about footing and attitude and once they cotton on to hitting them in the head and neck it they become extremely proficient.
They kill as many ducks as females, they just do it in a different way.
Less binds, more hits from what Ive seen.
Attitude comes partly from whats naturally in the birds head and secondly how you develop this by way or entering and wedding them to ducks.

And Im probably flying a female this season!!
Nick

Absolutely, agree.:supz:

I kind a apprechiate it more when a small tiercel has a heart for duck.No dought the falcon has adventages of her size.But when you look at the birds as I do and judging them by the size of their "heart" - brave birds,are prefered far more then the big ones. It's not just the size that matters in falconry, there is style,pitch, endurance, willingles to take quarry,perhaps different quarry? and the list go's on.By putting a question like which is better is a bit pretencious. It all comes down to that, what is your set target.Your goal, your dream...
In few years ago I was very happy when my falcon hed taken partidge in no particular style. I was just happy that she did it. But I soon understood that it's not just the head taken in Falconry.It's the style it's taken.Its the bravery of particular birds that will never be erased off my memories. For me the tiercels have shown me a tremendous divercity of quarry. Some of them rarely taken by falcons.(meaning smaller birds).It is all up to your preferences, likenes, ideas of what would you like your bird to go for.

[Jastreb]

Great post Sokoly :supz:

Cheers Viktor

[Dean]

Nick,no matter which way you put it,the tiercel cannot and will not kill as many mallard per season as the falcon! She will never refuse and will bring to bag almost every bird she hits,be it by bind or clinical strike! Please dont tell me that your tiercels have taken on every mallard flushed with deadly intent and that every bird hit was stoned! I have probably flew more tiercels than falcons,large ones at that,mallards were taken with a few but unless you have tried them as wedded duck falcons throughout a whole season you will not see the total overall advantage of the falcon!!!Style also,the falcon gains her pitch,gets her position and barrels into her stoop,no better or less than the tiercel!As for smaller birds probably a perlin would be more stylish! Need a tiercel for breeding so gonna fly one for a coupla seasons,he will fly above his game,whether he commits to duck is up to him,aint gonna build my hopes to high though!

[SmallPeregrine]

.
tiercels can do everything a female can do and generally they do it in better style Just my take ,
Nick
Nick not being funny but I think you need to get out more or have a trip to 'Spec savers':)
Phil

[SmallPeregrine]

how would the tiercel compare to the female on crow?
Surely this is not a serious question???
Phil

[CloudBase1664]

Surely this is not a serious question???
Phil
I think it is Phil.And don't call him Shirley:)
As a rule a tiercel wont last long if flown at rooks or crows .However there is always the exception that proves the rule.I have heard of one that's flown on the plain that is said to be outstanding .I think this applies to most quarries A confident tiercel is very hard to beat!!

Dave

[Judd Casper]

I think it is Phil.And don't call him Shirley:)
As a rule a tiercel wont last long if flown at rooks or crows .However there is always the exception that proves the rule.I have heard of one that's flown on the plain that is said to be outstanding .I think this applies to most quarries A confident tiercel is very hard to beat!!

DaveHi Dave your right but its the exception rather than the rule:D

Sam

[Falcon911]

All this praise for the Tiercel over the females makes me wonder why the females are more expensive?!!

[CloakDaggerTiercel]

Nick,no matter which way you put it,the tiercel cannot and will not kill as many mallard per season as the falcon! She will never refuse and will bring to bag almost every bird she hits,be it by bind or clinical strike! Please dont tell me that your tiercels have taken on every mallard flushed with deadly intent and that every bird hit was stoned! I have probably flew more tiercels than falcons,large ones at that,mallards were taken with a few but unless you have tried them as wedded duck falcons throughout a whole season you will not see the total overall advantage of the falcon!!!Style also,the falcon gains her pitch,gets her position and barrels into her stoop,no better or less than the tiercel!As for smaller birds probably a perlin would be more stylish! Need a tiercel for breeding so gonna fly one for a coupla seasons,he will fly above his game,whether he commits to duck is up to him,aint gonna build my hopes to high though!

Dean,
At the end of the day its whatever works for you. But this might not be what works for other people.
Ive seen plenty of females stone cold refuse ducks and one tiercel that never refused any type of duck through four seasons. There's no hard and fast rule. If its good enough its big enough. You're falling into the trap of stereotyping hawks for particular quarry based on just what you've experienced. Its a bit presumptious.
Its not just about killing ducks. If it was Id just get the gun out and go a shoot a heap - much less hassle. But if it is all Id say that the latter tiercel killed 37 ducks from 41 flights in his fourth season, most of them mallard wigeon and a couple of hefty goldeneye. Id have been happy with half the amount of kills as the pitches and MO of killing them (headshots) were spectacular and what I want to see.
Ive no interest in pot filling with a low flying binder, its just not what Im interested in though others may love it. Thats their choice.
The tiercels and small hybrids flown round here have done just fine on ducks.

Nick

[CloakDaggerTiercel]

Nick not being funny but I think you need to get out more or have a trip to 'Spec savers':)
Phil

Phil,

I was talking across the board as an average and trying to be objective.
And from what Ive seen up to now tiercels fly the feathers off falcons for pitch, consistency and all round flashiness. Of course there are some superb falcons out there, but for everyone theres a few great tiercels. Always been the same.
Maybe new training techniques will drag the falcon average up?
If the pitch is your thing I don't think the average falcon will fly as as high as the average tiercel. It ain't natural whatever specs your're squinting through!
Nick

[Chamokane]

I fly a male Anatum who is five years old, and a female Anatum who is seven years old. They both do a good job on ducks, from Teal to Mallards. They both fly at about the same pitch, usually in the 600 to 1,000 foot range, but either bird may go out of sight on occasion. They both handle winds close to 40 mph well. After that, I chicken out. The female is a little stronger in high winds.

It took the male longer to learn how to handle Mallards without bruising himself, and it took the female longer to learn to take a high pitch.

The male is more patient about timing his stoops so that they occur when the ducks are away from the water. He will follow them while maintaining or increasing his pitch. The female may kill a duck over water but she will go in and drag it to shore. Sometimes, she will knock a duck into the water without injuring it. I would rather fly the male at medium sized ducks and the female at mallards.

The male is more surgical on Grey Partridge and the female does better on pheasant.

I like the intelligence and precision of the male, and I like the power and speed of the female. They can both take all the game I hunt, but the flights just seem more "right" if I fly the male at small to medium sized game and the female at the medium to large stuff.

Different birds may give different results.

[Ginty]

I think its down to the falconers skill and effort that determines how well a bird does on a certain quarry, rather than the sex of the bird.

For instance a really good falconer could get a tiercel to regulary take duck/pheasant

whereas,

A lesser falconer might have a female that doesn't take duck/pheasant at all.

[EddieT]

This is a really interesting thread. The arguments also outline one of the reasons why the male gyr/pere is so popular - the style of the tiercel with a bit more size to manage the bigger quarry like mallard and pheasant?!

[Dean]

Nick,I am honestly not interested in tallies either but do concentrate solely on duck hawking,mainly mallard,the female is more superior in the catching of them thats all!Hybrid tiercels can out do her in catching them but this was not the original question!Flew a dark falcon last season,hardest hitting falcon I have ever experienced or witnessed,never mind,another season,another eyas.

[CloudBase1664]

This is a really interesting thread. The arguments also outline one of the reasons why the male gyr/pere is so popular - the style of the tiercel with a bit more size to manage the bigger quarry like mallard and pheasant?!

A male g/p with the style of a tiercel!! Are you aving a laugh?:lol:

Dave

[CloakDaggerTiercel]

Nick,I am honestly not interested in tallies either but do concentrate solely on duck hawking,mainly mallard,the female is more superior in the catching of them thats all!Hybrid tiercels can out do her in catching them but this was not the original question!Flew a dark falcon last season,hardest hitting falcon I have ever experienced or witnessed,never mind,another season,another eyas.


Dean,
Sounds a nice falcon.
Like Ive said all along it just comes down to what you prefer, just don't try and tell me that females are better on ducks because myself and a host of other people have lots of experience to suggest that a good duckhawk is a good duckhawk no matter what it is. Just ask the yanks.
Its like battering a door down with a sledgehammer (female) or simply putting the key in the lock and opening it (tiercel). Both are equally effective on mixed wild ducks (I don't know anyone who only flies mallard).
Nick

[Dean]

Nick,sorry mate,females are better at mallard talking percentages!I also have seen a lot of fair falconers attempt mallard hawking with eyas tiercels of various structure and size,very very few cut it and then only for a while before being whipped and dragged!Smaller ducks great,up to three pound powerful drakes and every strike would need to be surgically administered somewhere between head and upper torso to render the game unfit for a ground battle! Maybe sometimes but surely not all times!

[CloakDaggerTiercel]

Nick,sorry mate,females are better at mallard talking percentages!I also have seen a lot of fair falconers attempt mallard hawking with eyas tiercels of various structure and size,very very few cut it and then only for a while before being whipped and dragged!Smaller ducks great,up to three pound powerful drakes and every strike would need to be surgically administered somewhere between head and upper torso to render the game unfit for a ground battle! Maybe sometimes but surely not all times!

Dean,

We'll have to agree to differ on this one:lol:
Your selling tiercels far too short.
You said you were flying a tiercel this year?
Im flying a falcon hopefully.
Ill bet that if you give him two or three seasons you'll have a duck hawk killing as many mallard as my female and probably in better style. If you only give him one season you won't see how utterly deadly they can be.
My best tiercel only killed one mallard in his first season but went on to become the most lethal killing machine Ive seen.
We'll see. Good luck anyway and keep us posted.
Regards,
Nick

[Dean]

:razz:Dean,

We'll have to agree to differ on this one:lol:
Your selling tiercels far too short.
You said you were flying a tiercel this year?
Im flying a falcon hopefully.
Ill bet that if you give him two or three seasons you'll have a duck hawk killing as many mallard as my female and probably in better style. If you only give him one season you won't see how utterly deadly they can be.
My best tiercel only killed one mallard in his first season but went on to become the most lethal killing machine Ive seen.
We'll see. Good luck anyway and keep us posted.
Regards,
Nick
Will do Nick,also good luck with your falcon,although I dont think your gonna need it!:supz:

[Little Joe]

Dear Paul,

Surely its a trick question? You must be enjoying some of the replies, haha.

I think its a matter of what quarry is available to you and what you want to fly at. Tiercels are certainly more nippy, but I've worked some very eager females too. After all, in the wild they both hunt very successfully for themselves.

Saw a wild African tiercel at Augrabies Falls in SA that hunts Alpine swifts for a living, but that's a whole new discussion.

Regards,
Jannes

[TiercelJim]

Dear Paul,

Surely its a trick question? You must be enjoying some of the replies, haha.

I think its a matter of what quarry is available to you and what you want to fly at. Tiercels are certainly more nippy, but I've worked some very eager females too. After all, in the wild they both hunt very successfully for themselves.

Saw a wild African tiercel at Augrabies Falls in SA that hunts Alpine swifts for a living, but that's a whole new discussion.

Regards,
Jannes

hello jannes! start a thread on them and tell us what you know and what youve seen, sounds interesting.
jim

[Little Joe]

hello jannes! start a thread on them and tell us what you know and what youve seen, sounds interesting.
jim

Thanks Jim, will do. Just joined up today and looking forward to lively discussions.

Why do I get the feeling I'm being fed some rope here? haha:lol: