harris and red tail hawk

[Moses]

when people say red tails are aggressive , what do they mean, aggressive to the owner or the prey i hope and how easy is it to train than a harris

cheers

[Hawkmaster]

I have found them aggressive on quarry and not to me ever, some give other stories, but this can be handling.

Just as easy to train, more difficult to fly well, but this is not a bad thing.

[Jon]

Hi Moses I was in the same frame of mind as i have had a fhh years ago when started back again i wanted to try a different bird and i got all the horror stores about the red tails being nasty etc. I thought sod it its the bird i want so i got one a young male who is 10 months old, now he has only been away from parents now 6 weeks and i have had him for 1 week and he is flying to fist on line and his temperament is as good are if not better than the fhh i had. He is 2lb 10oz in weight and is so responsive. I was told about the female being funny but only at sexual maturate but all can be i think. He may change after first kill/hunt i don't know will have to see but with the way he is i doubt it.

[Shaun Byrne]

I find RTs to be very similar to HH whilst being trained, its once they are in the field they start to differ.

RTs tend to show a little more raw aggression to their prey, whilst the HH will think about things first.

The only thing I WILL say is that I've found RTs to be a little moody in the field and this can sometimes be a problem for the novice.

[Jon]

How do you mean moody h4wka? footy? Are just hunting mode.

[GDN]

I have only ever flown a male RT plus M and F HH. The RT had really nice manners. Never a problem. When on a kill though he looked like he was working out some serious issues with the rabbit and always looked a bit nuts but never with me. I would always give him a bit longer to settle on the kill than a HH. Let him calm down a bit. He always gave the impression that he was flying with brute force and sheer aggression. HH can think about things abit more.

Any horror stories i have heard about RT have always involved females. Normally when they have missed a few and are starting to get a bit p1ssed off. I haven't heard of any horror stories involving males.

I also think there are a few people out there who play on the RT's reputation for being aggressive and make it sound like they are the only ones who can handle that bird and are doing you a favor by holding on to it when talking to you. They have in my opinion the "Pit Bull Mentality".

[Jon]

[B]Hi GDN, will take that on board when out with mine. you are right what you say about rep.
Looking forward to see him in that mood (pit bull) :D
Cant wait. any other advice mate?

[Goldie]

[B]Hi GDN, will take that on board when out with mine. you are right what you say about rep.
Looking forward to see him in that mood (pit bull) :D
Cant wait. any other advice mate?

Two VERY important things with reds are, make sure you get the pick up from the kill to be as smooth as possible cos they can be sticky and if it gets a grip of you, you'll know :lol: they have a power in those talons when they want to use it second to none in their weight bracket. The other thing is they have a habit of sitting in trees, even at hunting weight so its a must that you spend time on that whilst training. I don't know why this happens but a few friends fly them (guys who know their stuff) and they always spend the time on these two points.

By the way Jon, 2.10 is a BIG male so he may have to come down a good bit yet unless of course he's a small female :lol: :lol:

[Shaun Byrne]

I think your question to me was answered by GDN and Goldie there Jon. Some very good points. When I said moody I meant exactly what Goldie refers to, sitting and being a bit "enthusiastic" around kills if not approached properly. Spend lots of time training on the switch and pick up. I did with my last male and he would dart off a kill for a single chick leg, it saves time and a lot of stress when in the field.

I never have managed to stop a RT sitting. Even at a bare hunting weight I've had them sit for up to half an hour, dont know what it is with them but this is one of the things that put me off hunting with them.

[Varmint]

I flew my last red over 10yrs ago, but bred them for a couple of years too.

My best advise would be to avoid footyness by only feeding food on the fist that you intend the bird to eat, rather than placing a large amount on (like rabbit leg) and then snaching away. They are very quick with their feet?

I always found them to be very slow from tree's and following on was a rare thing, but possible with lots of work.

Positives?, very easy to enter once on weight and unquestable agression on quarry which can sometimes be a bit more tricky with the HH?

Still hunting is their fortay, and in the right position they will kill every time, but hardly Falconry?

Given the choice, i still prefer the HH, but thats just me!

[Jon]

Good advice their thanks. :o

[Jon]

Has anyone tryed them out with dogs?

[Hawkmaster]

Much better than HHs with dogs, in fact perfectly fine.

[Goldie]

Yeah they seem to have no problems with dogs.

The secret with RTs in trees is the lure. As i said in earlier post, my two mates only fly reds and have done for about 20yrs and when starting with a new bird while it is still on the creance they put it on a branch not much higher than head height, chosen carefully so the bird cant ladder up and then throw lure with full rations on to the ground. when i say full rations, they do the the normal training of manning and post to fist for chick legs etc. and finish off with the branch work and the remainder of the food on the lure. The bird is quick to realise the lure means its a grood crop and responds accordingly. Its not to say this would normally be standard practice but it is very rare that my mates birds sit in trees, usually only after multiple kills if they have had too much in the way of pick up pieces and in that case they just throw out a bunny and call it a day.

[GDN]

When i said pit bull mentality i wasn't talking about the bird. I was talking about the owner. Just in case somebody misunderstands me. Met a few people who go on about how nuts there RT are and are willing to show you scars to prove it. Boring.

The male i flew never seemed prone to spend to much time sitting in trees. If he missed something and ended up in a tree he may of been a bit slower to come to the glove than a HH but i just put it down to temperament.

I think RT put alot more determination in some ways in to a flight than HH, which can make them real fun and some really excellent brave flights can be had. The down side is when they miss they are probably a lot more p1ssed off than a HH. Also RT think that they can fly through anything with sheer determination and strength alone when chasing something.

[Goldie]

Also RT think that they can fly through anything with sheer determination and strength alone when chasing something.

you mean to say they can't ? :lol: what a bummer :lol:

[Jon]

Goldie what type of lure do they use mate??
Will try that about the branch work sounds good thanks.
Its good to know that i could introduce him to dogs in the future also.
GDN, did you find that even if the red missed would it seem more up for the next chase?

[Bird_Dog]

Hi Y'all,

I've flown several passage RTs and Harris', so my comments are based on wild birds. I've never been around a captive raised or imprint RT, yet there are many captive raised HH around. My friend's imprint female HH will try to eat your face when she is in the back of the truck but is fine in the field. So perhaps further defining aggression might be helpful. There is aggression in hunting and defending quarry, as well as, aggression directed to falconer (i.e., fear). Maybe another type of aggression seen in HHs like my friend's bird is social aggression (i.e., dominance). You can catch plenty of rabbits with either species. :) I've seen several apprentices that were afraid to hand RTs... I just say getting footed is part of the game, you'll learn not to make mistakes after getting nailed a few time. More importantly don't teach your bird that it can intimidate you.

--BIRD_DOG

[Goldie]

Jon, they use a flat leather pad but I don't think the type is of any importance.The main thing is the bird associates the lure to mean instant dinner. Type of lure only comes into play if you intend to hunt feather as your main quarry. Although they are capable of taking feather, their real strengh is in fur. After the initial training they don't require the lure apart from a refresher now and again with full rations. The lads I mentioned will give the lure when they have had an unsuccessful day before they get back to the car. Because of the association with the lure, if the bird were to be a bit sticky in a tree a flash of it gets immediate response.

[Jon]

Thanks Goldie mate. :prayer:

[GDN]

Jon if he was at his correct weight he was always up for it. I didn't notice any real difference after he missed. He maybe just needed a minute or 2 longer than a HH to get his head together after a miss. Probably due to the fact he had normally crashed full tilt into a fence or some other obstacle. He took the attitude that he could fly through anything including barb wire fences and gorse bushes. His attitude was if the rabbit could get through then so could he. He never did learn that it was sometimes better to go over the fence like a HH would.

[Superfly]

Hi Y'all,
I've seen several apprentices that were afraid to hand RTs... I just say getting footed is part of the game, you'll learn not to make mistakes after getting nailed a few time. More importantly don't teach your bird that it can intimidate you.
--BIRD_DOG
Amen to that, we've got a right little $%#£$% at the centre, a male RT called Nelly (don't ask :P ). Bang..bang..bang at your hand and trying to nip as well, (let's hear it for a good glove :wink: ). Consequently, some of the staff won't handle him -S'funny though, they know the staff who are scared of 'em and tend to give them the evil eye when they are around.
As much as he goes at me though, he knows I won't give in to his "threats" so he releases his grip pretty quickly once you put him in the weatherings. That also makes me think it should be something we can get him out of reasonably quickly as at least he doesn't hold on for grim death.
Mind, not to say I haven't had some lovely bruises from it - ouch.
I'm actually thinking of spending some time with him personally when I'm at the centre to see if some quiet manning up will calm him a bit. Strange thing is, a year ago, he was well behaved, whilst one of our other birds was the s.o.b. - this year, they seemed to have swapped roles!

If anyone has any suggestions as to some manning techniques that may help with him calming down, they would be gratefully received.
Please bear in mind though, this is an RT which is going to be working as part of our educational flying displays, NOT a hunting bird, (would that we had the luxury of the time to go hunting, hmm, spare time..how does that work again?)

Mind you - in defense of RT's - have to say my female RT Kyla is a darling - then again, I would say that wouldn't I? :lol:

[Jester]

we've got a right little $%#£$% at the centre, a male RT called Nelly (don't ask )


hmmmmmmmmm i would be a bit bad tempered if i was a male named nelly as well :tfrag:

[Superfly]

don't even go there .. :P - Triggs insists he's named after the rap star :wink: