Collars Again !!!

[Coedhirion]

Talking of collars I was told today that there is an article in a paper (dont read the things) about training collars. It sounds like the 'Do Gooders, animal Lovers?' want to make training collars illegal !! Some one's cut the article out and posting it!! OK so dog chases sheep, what do you do?
a)chain it up 24/7 like a neighbour, with a half hour walk on the odd sunny sunday?
b) nothing till I or a neighbour are forced to shoot it for killing sheep
c) call it back and if no response & you have done all correct training etc, warning buz, if no response recall again and buz & quick zap.
Personally I'd rather go for C

[SSL]

Talking of collars I was told today that there is an article in a paper (dont read the things) about training collars. It sounds like the 'Do Gooders, animal Lovers?' want to make training collars illegal !! Some one's cut the article out and posting it!! OK so dog chases sheep, what do you do?
a)chain it up 24/7 like a neighbour, with a half hour walk on the odd sunny sunday?
b) nothing till I or a neighbour are forced to shoot it for killing sheep
c) call it back and if no response & you have done all correct training etc, warning buz, if no response recall again and buz & quick zap.
Personally I'd rather go for C

D) Train it properly, and never need an electric collar. Kindness makes a dog work for you, pain makes it work because it has to.

Steve.

[Coedhirion]

I'm not talking about work m8, my sheep dogs work just fine thanks, & get plenty of kindness and praise. I'm talking about a method of correcting a dog that is a distance away and doing something dangerous!!!! What do you do, same as some? thrash the thing when it dose come back!!! Sure be keen to return next time wont it !!???

[Jack Merlin]

No, you set the scene so the dog repeats the behaviour in a controlled situation, then make sure it learns that that behaviour is not productive.

I don't know any sheep farmer who would not be pleased to help sort out a sheep chasing dog. Most young dogs will chase a sheep if they have any spirit at all and if the dog is under any sort of control it ought to be easy to stop. There is, of course, the other sort but they are best buried.

My own method is to walk amongst sheep with the dog on the lead and watch its body language carefully. Even looking at a sheep gets the dog a mild tap on the nose with a switch and the word "Leave!" They never see the blow coming and don't even know I have such a weapon.

After a while, you will see them looking away from sheep! The other important thing is to remember that a dog is a predator and until its ideas on what prey it is meant to hunt are pointed in the right direction, it will experiment. So get it working on game as soon as possible.

I would not condemn e-collars totally but those who want to use them are usually those least likely to be qualified to know HOW to use them. You never hear about the ruined dogs they have to shoot.

I have 25 of my own dogs in the kennel at the moment (lowest number I've had for many years -- used to be 50+) and NEVER use the electric collar. Why not? Because I train them. I have owned several collars from different manufacturers but haven't even owned one now for years. Good trainers don't need them. NEVER buy a dog from a kennel or breeder who uses them routinely as it indicates bad breeding.

Rant over. I'll go away now and leave you all in peace!<g>

[Coedhirion]

Why ranting??? if you have a bad trainer a lot of what they do is potentially cruel, ie belting a dog that didnt come when it was called or 10 minutes after the crime was comited & expecting it to know what it did wrong!!! I have had one 4 yr old 'rescue' sheep dog I used an electric collar on, several people had had it before me and tried all the tricks from 10ft of heavy chain, tying its front leg to its collar etc etc. It was scared to go into a field when you were watching, but let loose on the yard it sneaked round the back, under the gate & took all the sheep to the furthest end of the field it could. As a working dog it was useless & as a pet, a liability. Borrowed a collar, coaxed dog into field on a long leash & got it walking gently behind sheep to command with loads of praise, kept stopping & putting it down & recalling etc. Took it home, let it loose with the others & HID. Sure enough after 10 mins dog went into field, I recalled.. nothing, warning buzzer with recall..nothing...all the previous + lowest setting & dog came hurtling back!! I met it with loads of praise giving recall whistle as it came. It had done what was asked. day 2 was repeat of day 1 . Day 3 I recalled & got instant response. never used the collar again. The dog is now 10 & works about 3 days a week, the rest of the time she is free to roam the yards with the other dogs, but like them would never go into a field unless sent by me to collect sheep. It worked for her!! My pups have NEVER required correction collars as they were correctly trained from the start.

[Goran]

People had dogs before training collars were invented.Interaction with a dog, exposure to many diferent situations and rock here and there(slingshot) works.To muve flushing dog from one side to the next, just one rock in the bush works like magic.Dog spending time play with the other dog when is time to work, marble in the but and play will stop.
Electric collar is a good tool if is used right but how many dog owners cannot train their dogs basics?They sign them to doggy school, obedience classes.....Why?Lazy to train, wanted instant dog and they should not get a dog in a first place if they cannot train it.

[Hawkmaster]

Coedhirion that does sound like it sorted things and I personally think for that situation it was just the job.

[Varmint]

Well, i know what works for me! and it only took one lesson to learn it?

My collar will remain firmly around my dogs neck should the occasion ever arise again, i will use it.

Buy me a dog folks, house it and feed it for me and ill take your opinion on board, but let me do what i like with my own dog, and you are very welcome to do what you want with yours!

To coin a phrase used already today "opinions are like ********s, every one has one!"

(Nice one Mick! :lol: )

[Coedhirion]

Make the useless dog owners and 'do gooders' ILLEGAL and leave country people who have trained their dogs to work ALONE. How can they know whats cruel when they dont know what they are talkin about!!???
Does this mean I shall have to stop using Electric Fences for my livestock, geeeeee they give a much harder jolt. (know this as wouldnt use use owt on my dog till i tried it meself)

[SSL]

What do you do, same as some? thrash the thing when it dose come back!!! Sure be keen to return next time wont it !!???

No, like I said, pain makes it work because it has to. I want a dog that wants to please, not that has to or it get zapped. Each to there own.

Steve.

[SSL]

I'm talking about a method of correcting a dog that is a distance away and doing something dangerous!!!!

Don't let it get to that stage, follow 'Jack Merlins' advice.

Steve.

[Coedhirion]

My dogs live half a mile from a road in a farm surrounded by 2,000 ewes or ewes and lambs. these sheep are brought through the same yard as the dogs have access to, live part of the year in the same buildings. The only thing between them and the sheep the rest of the time is a wire fence and gates. I expect, when working the dogs to negotiate these obstacles without my assistance. I expect, when not working, the dogs to stay within the confines of the yard.
I don't know any sheep farmer who would not be pleased to help sort out a sheep chasing dog. Around here there are a few who are so utterly fed up with such animals they would gladly do so....its called a double barrel shot gun !!! Once a dog has realy become a sheep chaser it is almost impossible to stop. The answer is not to let them start!!!
Sorry to rant.. but we have had our fair share of little pet dogs and some owned by people out shooting, causing sheep to abort due to being chased to the point of collapse.
I repeat... The answer is not to let them start!!!