Longwings at Ground Quarry

[VerticalStoop]

Wondered if anyone is doing it or has tried it?

I saw a big female Gyr x Saker fly at Hare many years ago and seem to remember it being good sport.

[Eagle Owl]

Here is a good thread about hunting rabbits with longwings.

http://www.falconryforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=39445

[Dean]

Many moons ago when I was a kid I used to fly any falcon I could get my hands on at anything in any style!I once tried ferreting with a second hand Saker,she got the hang of it for a while and scooped up a fair few head,yeh........she was my Gos for a while,I was a falconer.....an expert......an ace!!!!!!!!!!

[VerticalStoop]

Here is a good thread about hunting rabbits with longwings.

http://www.falconryforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=39445

Thanks for that, interesting reading:supz:

[VerticalStoop]

Anymore experiences. Perhaps some of our American or Arab friends.

[Falcon Boy]

What do you want to know? My first year imprint male gyr/saker took 37 rabbits in 27 hunts after catching his first rabbit. He is currently moulting and sept.1 we will be out again.

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i278/apprenticefalconry2/more%20pics/325089.jpg

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i278/apprenticefalconry2/more%20pics/324084.jpg

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i278/apprenticefalconry2/more%20pics/32208.jpg

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i278/apprenticefalconry2/more%20pics/31508.jpg

[TiercelR]

- Falcon Boy : well done ! in medieval times the hunt of hares with lanners and gyrs was very used. In the facts of gyrs was mainly used for to prepairing the gyr prior to the ringing high-flights pursuits after heron & kite-hawk.

- Regards. Roberto.

[richardjboyce]

Falcon Boy

That is a fantastic head count you have there. Your falcon seems to be thriving on all the rabbit action. How s his moult going ?

Do you ever fly him pusuit style off the fist at the rabbits or do you get him waiting on all the time ?

I ve got a male 5/8 gyr saker, he s one year old and nearly at end of moult.

I havent flown him yet but was thinking of entering him on rabbits when he s finished moult.

Got him familiar with the rabbit lure.

Any tips would be greatefully received.

Many thanks

Richard

[Stuart]

Wondered if anyone is doing it or has tried it?

I saw a big female Gyr x Saker fly at Hare many years ago and seem to remember it being good sport.
i had a male peri/saker he was a rook hawk and he grabbed n killed a rabbit at the south downs, my female g/saker killed at rat the other day and as killed 2 rooks since if she caught rabbits i wouldnt be upset

[Falcon Boy]

Falcon Boy

That is a fantastic head count you have there. Your falcon seems to be thriving on all the rabbit action. How s his moult going ?

Do you ever fly him pusuit style off the fist at the rabbits or do you get him waiting on all the time ?


My birds moult is going very well, he has 2 tail feathers and 2 primaries left, plus some random body feathers. I think we will be ready or at least close to it when the season opens September 1.

Please keep in mind this is my first big longwing as well as my first imprint, so this is just what i've learned after a season of longwing dirthawking. I do not mean to come across as a know it all, i am just trying to pass on knowledge, and on that topic huge thanks goes to my mentor, who has helped me tremendously.

Now to the fun part.

My bird has left the fist after rabbits but it was not successful. As you can see from some of the pictures i posted, the areas i was hawking were not conductive to that kind of flying due to tall thick cover. Rabbits also are easier to find if you have a falcons eyes overhead. All they must do is flick an ear in a bush or move a smidge and the falcon will find them once they understand the game.

Here is an example of a typical hunt last season- Bird is released at the truck once he is beeped up and hood and jesses are removed. He usually sticks around 50ft for 2-3 circles, then climbed to 100ft for a few circles, and would go up from there. It was not uncommon to have him find a rabbit within 5 minutes, until the rabbits learned that when they hear the telem beep to head down a hole or stay very very still. If Goose didn't find a rabbit right away, we would just walk around as usual when looking for rabbits, and if one was flushed we'd of course let out a game call to the bird, who often was already on the way full stoop. More commonly, a rabbit would hear us coming, and make the mistake of flinching. Goose would see it and would either:

A) Fake stoop the bush, from one side to the other. After 2-3 of these, the rabbit will try and run out the back. Goose figured this out and would stoop 5-10feet then start looking over his shoulder for a quick turn around. Success rate was high.

or

B) Circle over the bush, pinning the rabbit until I arrived. I would flush the rabbit and goose would take chase. Success rate was extremely high if i was patient enough to wait for him to get in good position, but most times i'd just flush as soon as i got there to try and encourage good fitness. Either way, success rate was phenomenal.

Please do not think that all rabbits were taken on the first flush, as it was not always the case. If the rabbit decided to try and run more than 10feet though outside of cover it usually ended up with the rabbit being taken.

In my opinion, there are a few barriers that make hawking rabbits difficult in the way that i fly.

1) Fitness - My bird would often fly for 2-3 hours at a stretch, more when time allowed, and take multiples. He would stay close enough to be effective most of the time and a lot of that time was pumping his wings, not just setting his wings and circling, i am talking about active hunting. Most people don't have the patience or time to get a bird as fit as needed through wild slips and actual time in the field. I do not think lure stooping is a good substitute. There is no limit I could find on how long my bird could fly when he was fit. Multiple flights occured on every hunt and going up, coming down and being hooded, then going back up later was also a commonplace. He could and would chase down anything he decided needed to be caught. I like a bird that can do that, it makes you confident in your birds abilities.

2) Game Recognition- I had a very hard time getting my bird to realize that rabbits were food he could catch. He'd hit a rabbit lure and he'd hit a dead dragged rabbit without hesitation. The problem came early I think. His first hunt out he tried to bind to some jackrabbits....didn't work. It took about 4-5 months to take our first head of quarry because he would not even glance at a rabbit during that time, but after that there was no looking back. Coming back with at least a rabbit became expected. The key is to get the bird on slips it can realistically catch the first few times out. After that i like to make things more difficult. My bird was entered on rabbits way too big and cover way too thick too early on, my fault completely.

3) Letting a gyr/saker be a gyr/saker- Gyr/sakers are not peregrines, so don't expect her to fly like one. My mentor told me early on- "Let your gyr/saker stoop at an angle, it is not a peregrine." I must admit, i've seen some vertical stoops out of Goose but nothing that came even close to his angled stoops. A gyr/saker in a 45degree stoop is amazingly fast and i would not want to be on the receiving end of that. I also do not expect my falcon to be dead overhead, due to the style of the stoop. Off to one side? That's fine. Things will get caught if your bird knows the game. Be patient and they will learn proper position through experience and lure work. Yes the bird will get left in the dust a few times but I bet they don't make the same mistake more than twice before they start thinking, and yes the bird will put things together if given the time and slips.

I know, some gamehawkers may be reading this and are ready to flip out. If you want to hawk rabbits from a waiting on, let your bird figure out what works for it. The flights are not the same as gamehawking but neither is the goal. How many gamehawks can stay on the wing, actively hunt/chase, and stick around for hours at a spell, even if no game is around? I'm sure there is a few but personally i get tired of hearing "we flew for 15 minutes today" and everyone talking like it is an eternity. Hawking rabbits from a waiting on is not like flying grouse, ducks, or anything of the like. Although this season i hope to take all of the above with my bird, as well as a fair amount of rabbits.

4) Your own physical fitness- I am 19, almost 20. I am in pretty good physical condition. I get tired chasing rabbits with my bird. My bird can and will see a rabbit a mile away and decide it needs to be caught. So I then run as fast as i can to keep up with the chase and play my part. Flying a falcon on rabbits without dogs requires a lot of running, i find myself running almost the entire time. If you can't keep up with the chase, your bird may lose slips after it has already seen the rabbit, and make the bird feel as though they are not catchable, especially early on. If you plan to fly rabbits i suggest being in pretty good physical condition. Other people very often will get left behind, but you have to watch out for your bird.

Anyway, i apologize if i sound as though i am a know it all, as i certainly am not. Just trying to pass on what worked for me.

Here are some more pictures from the season, all courtesy of my friend-
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i278/apprenticefalconry2/more%20pics/321082.jpg
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i278/apprenticefalconry2/more%20pics/322088.jpg
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i278/apprenticefalconry2/more%20pics/322087.jpg

Here is a photo you may be interested in. The arrow points to goose taking a rabbit.
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i278/apprenticefalconry2/more%20pics/322082.jpg

[Tony123ABC]

Son, you don't sound like a know it all. This is the best post I have had the opportunity to read re: this style of hawking. I wish you had written more. I used to write about how conditioning was needed for ferruges. I may have to step up the preseason conditioning. I aint no 20 yr old. Your bird looks great and I hope I am able to do as well as you. I am thinking I need a dog. Oh well, if jacks don't work chukar will. Great post and thanks for the info. Tony

[CJTaylor]

What do you want to know? My first year imprint male gyr/saker took 37 rabbits in 27 hunts after catching his first rabbit. He is currently moulting and sept.1 we will be out again.

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i278/apprenticefalconry2/more%20pics/325089.jpg

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i278/apprenticefalconry2/more%20pics/324084.jpg

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i278/apprenticefalconry2/more%20pics/32208.jpg

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i278/apprenticefalconry2/more%20pics/31508.jpg
Good pics, and your doing very well, but the trouble over here is,the rabbits are twice the size, 4lb plus, and although falcons have the size in terms of body weight!,they lack the foot size of a hawk..............colin

[Falcon Boy]

Son, you don't sound like a know it all. This is the best post I have had the opportunity to read re: this style of hawking. I wish you had written more. I used to write about how conditioning was needed for ferruges. I may have to step up the preseason conditioning. I aint no 20 yr old. Your bird looks great and I hope I am able to do as well as you. I am thinking I need a dog. Oh well, if jacks don't work chukar will. Great post and thanks for the info. Tony

Tony,
Any questions you have feel free to ask, either on here, or through PM.
-noah

[Falcon Boy]

Good pics, and your doing very well, but the trouble over here is,the rabbits are twice the size, 4lb plus, and although falcons have the size in terms of body weight!,they lack the foot size of a hawk..............colin

Jackrabbits should be doable as well, my bird just had bad experiences early. If you can keep the rabbit moving [like folks do with sighthounds] than it should not be a problem for the falcon. I do not run sighthounds, nor would i with my falcon, so keeping jackrabbits moving in the cover i was in was next to impossible. This season i have some permission areas where the jacks are supposed to just keep running, we will see what happens. I will probably keep a log of our progress as i did last year

[CJTaylor]

Jackrabbits should be doable as well, my bird just had bad experiences early. If you can keep the rabbit moving [like folks do with sighthounds] than it should not be a problem for the falcon. I do not run sighthounds, nor would i with my falcon, so keeping jackrabbits moving in the cover i was in was next to impossible. This season i have some permission areas where the jacks are supposed to just keep running, we will see what happens. I will probably keep a log of our progress as i did last year
Be interseting to read, im going to try and introduce a white 11/16ths gyr saker to rabbit this weekend!, hes pr and flies abot 2lb2-3oz, the trouble is up here in the lakes,the rabbits are huge,well over twice his weight,and they all have sets in which to hide,will let you know how he goes,im gona have to nail his weight down to persuede him to take em on,this however will leave his tank empty...colin

[Falcon Boy]

Best of luck! Your bird is a fair bit bigger than mine and should have the necessary strength to catch them if he goes about it right i'd think.

[Tony123ABC]

I just finished brush hogging my hunting area. I left about 50/50 sage and open areas. I made it so that the jacks have cover every 100 yds or so. They can hit large areas of cover, but I can approach each from several directions and force them back through the gauntlet. I am hopeing to get several stoops from each jack. What I want is flights where we push the jack out and the falcon keps it on its toes. My area is about .5 miles x.5 miles so I am hoping I can get some decent stoops in each rabbit. I they break the ranch they have cover all the way to Idaho. tony

[VerticalStoop]

What do you want to know? My first year imprint male gyr/saker took 37 rabbits in 27 hunts after catching his first rabbit. He is currently moulting and sept.1 we will be out again.

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i278/apprenticefalconry2/more%20pics/325089.jpg

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i278/apprenticefalconry2/more%20pics/324084.jpg

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i278/apprenticefalconry2/more%20pics/32208.jpg

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i278/apprenticefalconry2/more%20pics/31508.jpg

Hi Falcon Boy,

Great stuff, a real joy to see bud. exactly what I was after.

All the best for your coming season. Would be nice to see some pictures of your bird after the moult.

Cheers VS

[LanczSpringer]

My friend from the north west flew his saker at rabbits from the fist.

He had great success as well until an unfortunate accident ended his season prematurely. He will be flying it again this year and I'll get some photos and put them up!

http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z304/lanczspringer/S8000290.jpg

http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z304/lanczspringer/S8000286.jpg

[LanczSpringer]

The guy's name on here is woody

Heres a thread about his bird http://www.falconryforum.co.uk/showthread.php?p=731500#post731500

Ant

[AhmedQ8]

nice clip show saker on rabbit

YouTube - Super Rabbit Outsmarts Hunting Falcon !!

[Falcon Boy]

The rabbit jumping the falcon is pretty amazing to see in real life, it happened to my bird and i a few times this season.

[VerticalStoop]

nice clip show saker on rabbit

YouTube - Super Rabbit Outsmarts Hunting Falcon !! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2_RnTc1bBQ)

Great clip. I've only ever seen a rabbit jump a Harris Hawk, and it did to the three birds we where flying in the cast. I was so impressed with it's evading skills, we picked the birds up and went to the other side of the hill.

It's those kind of misses that make Falconry so great.

Thanks for sharing.

Regards VS

[Nemesis]

Hi all was talking to a bloke at the falconry fair that had a peragine that took rabbit, if it was on game birds and lost them and a rabbit got up it would take it ,he was out one day the bird missed the game chased a rabbit up a bank when it got to the top
the rabbit was in the air for a split second and the bird took it , he was so pi--ed off he took it back to the breeder ,.

[Pertie]

I have seen a wild peregrine falcon take leverets and trained tiercels take young rabbits.

[RyanSinTX]

I was taking care of a friends imprint Prairie falcon last year after the duck season was over. It never chased ground quarry in its life to my knowledge, and I had it chasing rabbits in about 5 days. I planned to hunt Jacks with it, but all I had in my area was cotton tails (to much ground cover also). She made several stoops on 3-4 different ones but never connected. She did kill an unhampered bagged CT with a head shot from about 400ft’ though. It did about four cartwheels/back flips when she hit it. We only had two days in the field before I returned her so we didn’t take any wild quarry (not from a lack of effort on her part though).