Large Harris

[Goldie]

Anyone see the ad in cage&aviary for the 2002 female harris. Seller states she comes out the aviary at 3lb 12oz and flys at 2lb 14oz. He's looking for offers OVER £800 :shock: . Seems bloody expensive to me. My 2004 female has just finished her first season at 2.10+ and I sold her siblings for 400+300. :cry:

[HawkMan69UK]

seem bloody expensive to you :shock: it seem bloody expensive to me tOOO :rolleyes: i think he must be using prices from 10 years ago :lol:

[ColdZero]

when no-one buys it you will probably see it for sale again closer to £400...which is still a lot really for an older bird.

[Goldie]

when no-one buys it you will probably see it for sale again closer to £400...which is still a lot really for an older bird.

Yeah but I'd buy it then :D

[Falconer]

Anyone see the ad in cage&aviary for the 2002 female harris. Seller states she comes out the aviary at 3lb 12oz and flys at 2lb 14oz. He's looking for offers OVER £800 :shock: . Seems bloody expensive to me. My 2004 female has just finished her first season at 2.10+ and I sold her siblings for 400+300. :cry:

Could be a miss print :lol:
Ya not know unless ya phone :wink:

[Afshimo]

lol, cud the guy b confused an cant tel the diff between a red tail or a harris lol, or maybe its a harris/goldie lol. That would be an interesting cross!!

[Varmint]

I wouldnt thank you for it, big n clumsy, rather fly a midget female!

[Shaun Byrne]

I wouldnt thank you for it, big n clumsy, rather fly a midget female!

Oh yes!!!! :D

[Finnish]

I'll have some of that what mr £800 for a HH is on.He must be right on one :lol: :lol:

[Goldie]

BIG male, 1.12+ :wink:

[Jiff]

i have a female that is well over 3lb to moult i suppose she'll hunt next year at quite a high weight(which will only be her second) i payed 400 quid for her money well spent but at the size she is she wont take on feather,she nailed a fair few rabbits and chased unsuccesfully a couple of hares,it's horses for courses i think,i'm more than happy just hunting mammilian game,but if you want to hunt mixed game the smaller birds are the key,too much emphisis is put on size,and if he thinks he's going to get a higher price because of the size he has another think comming,harris' are'nt sold by the pound.

[Shaun Byrne]

I'm flying a female at 1lb 12 and I'd put her up against his anytime, on anything but Hares. She'd be off the fist and on its ass before his had moved.

[Varmint]

Id have some money on her as well mate! :wink:

Its not the size but the motivation and training, 1 6oz 6 mnth old male HH= 6 1/2 lb brown hare!

What more do i have to say?

[Goldie]

Id have some money on her as well mate! :wink:

Its not the size but the motivation and training, 1 6oz 6 mnth old male HH= 6 1/2 lb brown hare!

What more do i have to say?

Just a small hare then :lol: :lol:

[Kevin Massey]

does any one know of breeders that are renowned for producing very large harrises.......how does this compare to what they charge for theres.

kev

[MickeyDredd]

Kev

It depends if they are in it for the money or not. A mate of mine breeds Harrises whose young are a good size/weight (he flew a 2004 male this year at 1-13) and he only charges £300 for a female and £200 for a male cos he isn't breeding for the money.

[Shaun Byrne]

Thats a good size male mate, I thought mine were big at 1lb 10-11

[MickeyDredd]

Yep, I fly one of his 2001 males at 1lb 10. His breeding female used to hunt about 2lb 9oz, can't remember what weight the father of mine was. His breeding male died a couple of years ago and I gave him my male to replace him (he used to hunt at 1lb 9oz.
He bred with her the first season at 3-y-o (he did little or no feeding of the young) and they had three male young who flew at about 1lb 8oz.

Last season he helped incubate and feed the young and they all were tanks!!

It would appear therefore that if the parents are decent size stock, the more the male helps to ram food down the youngsters as they are growing, the bigger the young grow.

Does anyone else agree my theory?

[Goldie]

Wouldn't disagree mickey but I think the genes have to be there first and foremost. My pair hunted at 2lb.12 & 1lb.12 1/2. Last year they had 2 x .fem and 1 male. The female I kept finished the season at 2.10+ my mate had the male 1.11 and the other fem I don't know about but she was as big as my own. It is a must that you have to supply them with good grub though

[Varmint]

he only charges £300 for a female and £200 for a male cos he isn't breeding for the money.

This statement makes me laugh!

I've said it before and ill say it again, how much moneys worth of food does it cost to rear a clutch of HH?

15-20 weeks with each eyass averaging 10oz of qulaity food per day incl quail, Pheasant, Duck, Rabbit , DOC ect, work it out?

Even at 1 quail per day thats £70 for 1 bird forget any other food! than add on the price of constructing an aviary to breed them in? Then suppliments, then time for cleaning each week,

After all of this, even selling a bird at £200, he's either feeding them **** or he's making a loss of approx £100 per bird.

There is no profit in breeding any bird properley, (maybe Gos's :wink: )

I sell my HH for £50 each more than your friend, and i certainly dont make a profit of any kind, so who does? Who makes money out of breeding BOP?

Id love to find out, and try to copy them, but i realsie it takes good stock, £1000's of equipment (incubators, buildings, etc) and finally years of accumilated knowledge.

Whats all this worth?

Nothing, cus there's no money in breeding good birds!

Pls don't dis the breeders cus they do it more out of love and pleasure than they do for cash!

And as for ramming food down the young? You sure these HH are not the Barry White's of the bird world? flys at 1lb 10 and is slightly taller than a Spar! :lol:

Genetics play the role of growth limiters, only thing you get from feeding lots, is Exscrement!

[MickeyDredd]

Pls don't dis the breeders cus they do it more out of love and pleasure than they do for cash!

And as for ramming food down the young? You sure these HH are not the Barry White's of the bird world? flys at 1lb 10 and is slightly taller than a Spar!

Genetics play the role of growth limiters, only thing you get from feeding lots, is Exscrement!

I am not aware I dissed breeders in any of my posts - I merely answered kev's post which asked if there was any correlation between size and price. This thread started cos a guy had a very big Harris and wanted megabucks for it.

Its nothing to do with me what breeders do or don't do, I have no interest in their practices and I am not a commercial breeder. I also didn't suggest you or any other breeder makes a profit, huge or otherwise from breeding HH. I'm sure it is hard to make a living out of a love of falconry and we see centres and other falconry businesses going bust from time to time (although some do manage to rise from the ashes).

I gave an example of a mate of mine who has enjoyed flying his HH and now breeds them cos he flies other birds now, and the point I was making was that just cos his birds average a slightly higher than average weight he does not feel the need to charge higher prices.

I actually happen to agree with you and others on this thread when it comes to HH - big male/small female, although I seem to remember a few years ago you used to favour big females.

My theory on the increased size of youngsters due to increased male participation is simply my theory (perhaps my wording could have been slightly better) and this being a discussion forum I certainly welcome other peoples thoughts - I would have thought that your many fans on this forum would have expected a more constructive response from you than that posted.

I would imagine that the more quality food a youngster of any species, avian or otherwise, gets whilst growing would have some impact on the development otherwise why don't we just feed them a few day old chicks per day - much cheaper option and maybe then the breeders would make a profit!
A previous posting from you :
"I flew a male Bred my John Shaw in Derbyshire in 1985 that flew and took rabbits daily at 1lb 15 1/2 oz, had him sexed and he eventually went on to breed".
Was this bird "Barry White" or "The Refridgerator"?? or was it a Spar?!! Why is my bird a fat f**ker and yours not? :D
Finally, I don't think you can really comment on my mates profitability as
a) You don't know him
b)You don't know if he breeds quail thus keeping his costs down
c)You don't know how much game he catches during the season to feed the youngsters with
d)You don't know what age he sells them at
So you can't calculate his profit/loss from your personal estimations.
I assure you he does not sell at a loss, neither does he wish to make a profit.

[Varmint]

Firstly Mike, let me start by saying that my post regarding profit wasnt aimed at either your post or as a judgment on your friend, i was pointing out that breeding HH at their current price is def not a profit making excersise.

I dont give a flying Fck about your mates HH or your own, but was stateing for the record that there is no money to be made breeding HH's.

Yep, befor ei knew better i used to like big HH's, but been there done that and am happy with the small ones, people grow and change, it's allowed, honest!

And as for your increased food theory? does it apply or work in any other species?
what would happen if your mum was 5ft 6 and your dad was 5ft 7?, then we forced fed you with a shovel from birth on a mixed and varied diet? would you end up 6ft 2 or would you end up a fat bstrd?

Maybe a 6ft 2 Fat Bstrd? :lol:

Chill out Dude and lets see what you really know?

[MickeyDredd]

Adrian

I am chilled. Your opening line was "this statement makes me laugh" so it appeared to me your post was aimed at me and was somewhat derogatory.

I would obviously welcome your opinion on my theory but it appears you disagree and thats fine. Can you offer any explanation why the young were so much larger in the second year when the male took a much more active role? Do you not think the two are connected?

I simply felt you misinterpreted my post and wanted to explain what I meant by my post.

With regard to what I know, I think I had a good initial training and hopefully you will find out through the forum what I have learnt since :D

[Jester]

dunno if it works with birds (or even if it really worked with my fish :roll: ) but i used to have some success breeding sailfin mollies and was told to feed little and often to make them grow bigger. one lot i fed normally and another lot i fed by giving a little more often. the little and often batch got more food and grew much bigger much faster. might have been something else caused the size difference i dunno but it seemed to work so i kept doing it that way and always got bigger fish.

[Kevin Massey]

i always look at this subject...and compare it to athletes.

the fitter and stronger they get the mussel mass increases giving a higher weight, then you get into a loop...the fitter it gets..the more food it requires...the more the desire to hunt....thus getting fitter......

eventually you will reach a maximum mass for your bird.

personally i do,nt think there are that many falconers really reach the full fitness and peak condition of there hawks ( well mostly the Harris hawkers)..

just my 2pence worth that's all

[North East Harris Hawker]

does any one know of breeders that are renowned for producing very large harrises.......how does this compare to what they charge for theres.

kev
my birds knocked out a youngster that entered at 2lb 5 1/2 last year
she was sold for £450
.
i think the guy in cage and aviary is dreaming too, ive never hear of a 2lb 14 harris before (unless he has fed it on lard since 2002) :lol:

[IAmTheWeasel]

This magazine that sells BOP, it sounds interesting. Is there anyway that someone could scan it and post it to the forum so us Americans can have a look see?

[North East Harris Hawker]

This magazine that sells BOP, it sounds interesting. Is there anyway that someone could scan it and post it to the forum so us Americans can have a look see?
JUST CLICK HERE
http://www.qssa.co.uk/ipc/ipcshop/product.asp?jrnlid=Qcb&campid=14&pc=iqw4
or copy and paste to get yourself a copy!

[Goldie]

This magazine that sells BOP, it sounds interesting. Is there anyway that someone could scan it and post it to the forum so us Americans can have a look see?

Weasel, its just a rag that runs to 20 odd pages full of parrots, finches and all sorts o cage birds etc. The falconry bit is in the for sale section, usually about twenty small adds with the exception of breeding time when there is more. I only speak for myself but I'm sure many others on here will agree, the majority of the birds for sale are **** and the paper is just a dumping ground to get rid of them to unsuspecting newbies and people who don't know any better. It's a fact you don't normally sell good birds and if you have to then you wouldn't need to advertise.
It's a bit different at breeding time cos people have excess youngsters to sell and you wouldn't class them as **** as they would be a blank sheet so to speak, but again they would still be the left overs.

Suppose this might ruffle a few feathers :lol: :lol:

[MickeyDredd]

Goldie

I know of a guy who flies a fhh at 2lb 13, bred by my mate who I mentioned on this thread.

Big bird, huge feet!

[Goldie]

Hi Mickey, my own breeding pair hunted at 2.12 and 1.12 1/2 and the female I kept last year finished the season at 2.10 as a first year bird,I expect she will be a bigger bird next year.

was your post actually meant for me or was it for NEHH about 5 posts back? :lol:

[MickeyDredd]

Goldie

Yeah,sorry. That's the trouble with trying to snatch sneaky visits to the site while at work :lol: