Gamehawker 2008

[GameHawker]

57801

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Pulled Sharpe out of his chamber and added him to the cadge with Wilma.

Regards

Carl

[Judd Casper]

57801

57802

57803

Pulled Sharpe out of his chamber and added him to the cadge with Wilma.

Regards

CarlHi Carl you must be getting them ready for your trip to the field of dreams.:lol:

Sam

[Gary B]

good luck carl catch up wee you soon gary

[GameHawker]

Hi Carl you must be getting them ready for your trip to the field of dreams.:lol:

Sam

Funny Sam off to Scotland with Lee Cooper on 14th for a quick week. Planning on doing little bit of grouse hawking this year. How are yours doing?

Carl

[GameHawker]

good luck carl catch up wee you soon gary

Only a few weeks how many back packs will you want doing I know you want 2?

Regards

Carl

[Judd Casper]

Funny Sam off to Scotland with Lee Cooper on 14th for a quick week. Planning on doing little bit of grouse hawking this year. How are yours doing?

CarlMoulting......nothing doing until mid October like last year pointless flying young quarry with made hawks they go backwards instead of forwards.

Sam

[Gary B]

Only a few weeks how many back packs will you want doing I know you want 2?

Regards

Carl

ill find out tomorow let you no carl

[CloakDaggerTiercel]

Moulting......nothing doing until mid October like last year pointless flying young quarry with made hawks they go backwards instead of forwards.

Sam

Sam,
With pheasants and partridges I can see your point. They're just soft poults.
With grouse in a normal year (no cheapers) and ducks they are a good testing quarry and the hawks tend to hit their straps early and kick on in my experience.
Nick

[Dean]

Carl,You are making me sooooooooooooo.......jealous!!! Have a good season mate,you deserve at least one!!!:lol::D:twisted:

[GameHawker]

Carl,You are making me sooooooooooooo.......jealous!!! Have a good season mate,you deserve at least one!!!:lol::D:twisted:

Thanks Dean last season wasn't the best for me with one thing and another, but this season should be a stonker, my mate George who I have been doing a bit of shooting with has got some cracking pheasant in rough patches and duck pits to go at and with grouse hawking whenever we can get it. It should be a good season new dog and new small falcon what more could i want.

Might even release a few easy mallards :rolleyes: we should get together sometime this season Dean.

Regards Carl

[Dean]

Thanks Dean last season wasn't the best for me with one thing and another, but this season should be a stonker, my mate George who I have been doing a bit of shooting with has got some cracking pheasant in rough patches and duck pits to go at and with grouse hawking whenever we can get it. It should be a good season new dog and new small falcon what more could i want.

Might even release a few easy mallards :rolleyes: we should get together sometime this season Dean.

Regards Carl
I can get ya loads"n"loads of em!!!In vast numbers too............!Penny a visit!:P:wink:Not practising this season mate,but if you do need a few early season kills give me a ring,but dont forget to get her doin a 1000ft plus first!:wink:

[Yeoman]

Funny Sam off to Scotland with Lee Cooper on 14th for a quick week. Planning on doing little bit of grouse hawking this year. How are yours doing?

Carl

You will enjoyit with lee


he is a good mate of mine over at his tommorrow.
Kev

[Judd Casper]

Sam,
With pheasants and partridges I can see your point. They're just soft poults.
With grouse in a normal year (no cheapers) and ducks they are a good testing quarry and the hawks tend to hit their straps early and kick on in my experience.
Nick A grouse flown in August is alot easier than one flown in mid September / early October and that goes across the board ducks included.You can put a covey of grouse up in August and they don't fly to far and put in quite quickly but they don't in October.Young ducks might be fairly fit in September but are still naive againts predators compared to one that's been through a winter.What the partridge hawker and pheasant hawker has over the grouse hawker is game can be spied on with binoculars and scopes and if any poults are spotted they can be left alone, the grouse hawker does not have this luxury.


Sam

[Hatchero]

A grouse flown in August is alot easier than one flown in mid September / early October and that goes across the board ducks included.You can put a covey of grouse up in August and they don't fly to far and put in quite quickly but they don't in October.Young ducks might be fairly fit in September but are still naive againts predators compared to one that's been through a winter.What the partridge hawker and pheasant hawker has over the grouse hawker is game can be spied on with binoculars and scopes and if any poults are spotted they can be left alone, the grouse hawker does not have this luxury.


Sam

i always have to laugh when folks brag about the sage grouse that they catch in September and October, as if that were the real deal. I don't even count grouse caught before the end of November(and only fly young birds on early grouse). the difference between a sage grouse flight in October and a flight in January is so dramatic that you would think they are a different species. by the way, i like the car perch you have. i do, however, find that long astro turf will wear the undertail coverts and the outer tail feathers quite a bit due to the rough terrain and the constant jostling the birds get. i find cheap shag carpet works best for me since the birds can hang on to it and it does not wear the feathers to nothing like astroturf does(especially the long astroturf).
Jim

[Dean]

Never made much difference really whether mallard were flown early sept or late feb,if the falcon is high enough and the ducks are confident to burst,they are usually bounced bankside or near!On larger water obviously the falcon will push out more and gain more pitch,still any duck that doesnt swing and pitch back in are usually struck fairly close by!!!!And before anybody has a go,I know,duckhawking holds no challenge for some!!:roll:I have never flew partridge,but once spent my anniversary on a grouse patch early sept,Cassie killed one outta two,the first was feathered on an attempted bind!!!

[CloakDaggerTiercel]

A grouse flown in August is alot easier than one flown in mid September / early October and that goes across the board ducks included.You can put a covey of grouse up in August and they don't fly to far and put in quite quickly but they don't in October.Young ducks might be fairly fit in September but are still naive againts predators compared to one that's been through a winter.What the partridge hawker and pheasant hawker has over the grouse hawker is game can be spied on with binoculars and scopes and if any poults are spotted they can be left alone, the grouse hawker does not have this luxury.


Sam


Yes most things are abit harder later in the season but the hawks generally don't go backwards flying early grouse and ducks, at least ours haven't.
We've had flights in august the very equal of anything seen later on in the season. Great sport.
August grouse can can dissapear over the horizon just like winter grouse too when they are well grown on birds and the weather is cool. Not the prize a winter grouse is but a good test all the same. They've certainly made a few falconers look harmless over the years!

On the other hand Ive seen alot of winter grouse **** out and dump at every opportunity. Too many variables.

Nick

[Hyfly]

[quote=GameHawker;851047]57801

57802

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Pulled Sharpe out of his chamber and added him to the cadge with Wilma.

Regards

Carl[/quote

looks like sharpes had a good moult carl , hows the pup doing good i hope.:)

[Smudge33]

Great how you have managed to get the free advetiseing on the pics.lol

[GameHawker]

To be completly honest I could not give a flying fat rats ****. I have a young falcon that I am looking forward to bring on through the season and if that means taking some early game so be it. Things can only get better as the season progress as nicky sayes.

Carl

[GameHawker]

You will enjoyit with lee


he is a good mate of mine over at his tommorrow.
Kev


Looking forward to it Kev.

Carl

[Dean]

To be completly honest I could not give a flying fat rats ****. I have a young falcon that I am looking forward to bring on through the season and if that means taking some early game so be it. Things can only get better as the season progress as nicky sayes.

Carl
Young in-experienced falcon on young in-experienced game,seems fair to me!One things for sure,she cant fly in-experienced game all season!!!

[Judd Casper]

i always have to laugh when folks brag about the sage grouse that they catch in September and October, as if that were the real deal. I don't even count grouse caught before the end of November(and only fly young birds on early grouse). the difference between a sage grouse flight in October and a flight in January is so dramatic that you would think they are a different species. by the way, i like the car perch you have. i do, however, find that long astro turf will wear the undertail coverts and the outer tail feathers quite a bit due to the rough terrain and the constant jostling the birds get. i find cheap shag carpet works best for me since the birds can hang on to it and it does not wear the feathers to nothing like astroturf does(especially the long astroturf).
JimJim i have always thought the same with most game, every tiercel i have flown at partridge took better numbers early on at younger game Sept-Oct but in November they got harder to catch and were more of a challenge for the tiercels and this happend year in year out and i seen a pattern emerging. It would be the same for our red grouse early season fill your boots boy's but later more challenging and less caught.I have alway's thought the old game hawkers of the past Blaine Allen etc chucked the towel in just when the game got more interesting and more rewarding.

Sam

[Hatchero]

Jim i have always thought the same with most game, every tiercel i have flown at partridge took better numbers early on at younger game Sept-Oct but in November they got harder to catch and were more of a challenge for the tiercels and this happend year in year out and i seen a pattern emerging. It would be the same for our red grouse early season fill your boots boy's but later more challenging and less caught.I have alway's thought the old game hawkers of the past Blaine Allen etc chucked the towel in just when the game got more interesting and more rewarding.

Sam

it seems that you really see it when you are sort of pushing the limits of what your bird can do. one of my best grouse hawks was an average female peales, sage grouse are certainly at the limits for peregrines. i would get her going in October and she would kill about 80 to 90 % of the flushes. as soon as the grouse moved out to the sage flats(early to mid november) the grouse changed in a period of a few weeks to turbocharged grouse mode. my falcon would go for a period of about two weeks were she would just not catch one as they were almost bullet proof. after some retooling (read:go higher, hit harder) she would get to somewhere around 1 in 5 or 2 in 5 of the grouse flown, which is close to what i think the limit of where a bird starts blinking quarry--which she did not do for the five seasons i flew her on them before an eagle killed her.
Jim

[GameHawker]

Young in-experienced falcon on young in-experienced game,seems fair to me!One things for sure,she cant fly in-experienced game all season!!!

Are you sure Dean others would tell you different. If Grouse hawking was that easy some of us would have caught a **** load more that what they have including myself. Killed my first grouse last season must of had **** falcons up to that point taking released ducks.

Can anyone tell me is there any physical differents in released Mallards and wild do you get wild mallard feeding with released and is a Tufted, Wigeon or a Teal a released duck.

Carl

[GameHawker]

Great how you have managed to get the free advetiseing on the pics.lol

Works well sold 10 this week :supz:

Regards Carl

[GameHawker]

[quote=GameHawker;851047]57801

57802

57803

Pulled Sharpe out of his chamber and added him to the cadge with Wilma.

Regards

Carl[/quote

looks like sharpes had a good moult carl , hows the pup doing good i hope.:)

Would love to say really easy but we are working them out she is still young. Shes got a good set of legs on her and is just starting to get the drop at a fair distance.

Give you a call over the weekend.

Carl

[Smudge33]

Works well sold 10 this week :supz:

Regards Carl

Nice one

[CloudBase1664]

You will enjoyit with lee


he is a good mate of mine over at his tommorrow.

Kev

Kev
Give him my regards .Is he still mincing about in his poncy porsch?:lol:

Dave

[CloakDaggerTiercel]

Jim i have always thought the same with most game, every tiercel i have flown at partridge took better numbers early on at younger game Sept-Oct but in November they got harder to catch and were more of a challenge for the tiercels and this happend year in year out and i seen a pattern emerging. It would be the same for our red grouse early season fill your boots boy's but later more challenging and less caught.I have alway's thought the old game hawkers of the past Blaine Allen etc chucked the towel in just when the game got more interesting and more rewarding.

Sam


Sam,

No-ones saying early season grouse are as hard as winter grouse.
But August grouse are a still a testing quarry and well worth the effort,expense and sacrifice needed to go after them. Its not quite so easy to 'fill your boots' as you naively put it.
Stumbling over yorkshire grouse without the need for any dog is one thing. Being turned loose on a caithness desert where you are totally reliant on your dogs ability and legs is another thing altogether. Many try and fall on their ****. Most don't even have a dog, but have plenty to say about how easy it is......until....
You first have to spend years making a pointer good enough to find them time after time and be totally reliable and wide ranging enough to cover huge tracts of land.
Any one who's done much proper grousehawking in Scotland would know this.
We use to spend as many weeks in Scotland in winter as we did in August and enjoyed both equally.
Nick

[Dean]

Are you sure Dean others would tell you different. If Grouse hawking was that easy some of us would have caught a **** load more that what they have including myself. Killed my first grouse last season must of had **** falcons up to that point taking released ducks.

Can anyone tell me is there any physical differents in released Mallards and wild do you get wild mallard feeding with released and is a Tufted, Wigeon or a Teal a released duck.

Carl
Yes Mate,Released ducks are bigger,fatter,totally unfit,frequent small pools and therefore make for easy set-ups!Any falconer,flying any longwing can catch them easily all season through!!!This is what Ive heard anyhow!!!:roll:Shooting em is very unsporting!!!!Wild mallard will never associate with released,they find their colour intimidating!:confused:

[Judd Casper]

Sam,

No-ones saying early season grouse are as hard as winter grouse.
But August grouse are a still a testing quarry and well worth the effort,expense and sacrifice needed to go after them. Its not quite so easy to 'fill your boots' as you naively put it.
Stumbling over yorkshire grouse without the need for any dog is one thing. Being turned loose on a caithness desert where you are totally reliant on your dogs ability and legs is another thing altogether. Many try and fall on their ****. Most don't even have a dog, but have plenty to say about how easy it is......until....
You first have to spend years making a pointer good enough to find them time after time and be totally reliable and wide ranging enough to cover huge tracts of land.
Any one who's done much proper grousehawking in Scotland would know this.
We use to spend as many weeks in Scotland in winter as we did in August and enjoyed both equally.
NickNick i think you answered your own question...apart from the dog thing, good dogs mean grouse can be caught if not by the falcon by the combination:D but young naive easy quarry is easy quarry which ever way you dress it up.


Sam

[TiercelJim]

[quote=hyfly;852147]

Would love to say really easy but we are working them out she is still young. Shes got a good set of legs on her and is just starting to get the drop at a fair distance.

Give you a call over the weekend.

Carl

how olds your pup now carl?

[CloakDaggerTiercel]

Nick i think you answered your own question...apart from the dog thing, good dogs mean grouse can be caught if not by the falcon by the combination:D but young naive easy quarry is easy quarry which ever way you dress it up.


Sam

Not trying to dress it up as anything other than a good test of hawk and dog even if they are less testing than winter grouse.
To counter your original point:- No, they don't make made hawk go backwards not mine anyway, and not plenty of other peoples hawks too.
Ive found most of our quarries are made to look straight forward or 'easy' (to the un-initiated) right through the season by a top class hawk. The truth is rather different.

[GameHawker]

[quote=GameHawker;852191]

how olds your pup now carl?

Jim she is 8 months old this week. Starting to do a little bit of basic work with her. how are you getting on with yours any photo's of her.

Off to the CLA in a few hours time. I'll give you a call next week.


Regards

Carl

[Judd Casper]

Not trying to dress it up as anything other than a good test of hawk and dog even if they are less testing than winter grouse.
To counter your original point:- No, they don't make made hawk go backwards not mine anyway, and not plenty of other peoples hawks too.
Ive found most of our quarries are made to look straight forward or 'easy' (to the un-initiated) right through the season by a top class hawk. The truth is rather different.Like i said Nick i think you have answerd the question yet again, they are not as testing as winter grouse and are way more easily caught like most young naive game is, don't try and tell me they are challenging for a made hawk they are no more challenging than early season partridge.....flying too much young game with a made hawk will make it sloppy like flying too much baggged game and you could struggle to bring the hawk back online later when the quarry is alot tougher, better off putting the made hawk straight back on to what it ended the previous season on.....i am not knocking you or anyone else who wants to go on a moor with a made hawk and kill young grouse if that floats your boat great, Carl asked me a question i gave him my answer...its not one of the ten commandments! you have your ideas of what makes a good game hawk and keep it there season in season out and i have mine.


Sam

[Yeoman]

Funny Sam off to Scotland with Lee Cooper on 14th for a quick week. Planning on doing little bit of grouse hawking this year. How are yours doing?

Carl

Carl heres a few pics of Lee coopers pointer jack pointing for the 1st time
Kev

[TiercelJim]

[quote=TiercelJim;853072]

Jim she is 8 months old this week. Starting to do a little bit of basic work with her. how are you getting on with yours any photo's of her.

Off to the CLA in a few hours time. I'll give you a call next week.


Regards

Carl

very pleased with her mate.ill put some pictures up once ive found the charger for my camera:lol: shes a small bitch with a blackhead like the chaps above.

[CloakDaggerTiercel]

Carl heres a few pics of Lee coopers pointer jack pointing for the 1st time
Kev

Kev,

Is that out of Brendan Farrells bitch and dog?.
Got my name down for one out of the next litter.
Nice looking dogs and great blood.

Nick

[CloakDaggerTiercel]

Like i said Nick i think you have answerd the question yet again, they are not as testing as winter grouse and are way more easily caught like most young naive game is, don't try and tell me they are challenging for a made hawk they are no more challenging than early season partridge.....flying too much young game with a made hawk will make it sloppy like flying too much baggged game and you could struggle to bring the hawk back online later when the quarry is alot tougher, better off putting the made hawk straight back on to what it ended the previous season on.....i am not knocking you or anyone else who wants to go on a moor with a made hawk and kill young grouse if that floats your boat great, Carl asked me a question i gave him my answer...its not one of the ten commandments! you have your ideas of what makes a good game hawk and keep it there season in season out and i have mine.


Sam

Sound points Sam, but you can't compare young grouse in late august/september with the partridge you normally see in september.
In a normal year the young grouse are almost identical to the old birds a couple of weeks into the season.
Last year what broods there were, were well grown on August and we putting up big coveys of seemingly full grown grouse. Some of them could only be identified by the odd bit of juvenile plumage and the weak lower mandible.
Definitely not soft poults and testing to catch believe me. Some outstanding hawks have come up short.
Another thing that gets overlooked is that as often as not the old birds jump first out of a covey and either pull a trick or take a hell of a blow and keep going. Either way those boots aren't being filled so fast!
Its impossible to fly young game for long as they don't stay young for long!!
They make good hawks even better not worse, but again that's an experience thing I suppose. My best tiercels kill rate on them was no alot better than late season grouse or partridge.

Comparing early season grouse with bagged game is also a new one on me but if you ever spent a couple of weeks grouse hawking Id bet you'd modify your views somewhat as I think you have painted a slightly distorted picture on early season grouse hawking.
One of the big name grouse hawkers of yesteryear said there were no easy grouse after Sept 1st. I tend to agree with him.
Nick

[Yeoman]

Kev,

Is that out of Brendan Farrells bitch and dog?.
Got my name down for one out of the next litter.
Nice looking dogs and great blood.

Nick

Sure Lee bred the pups Carl has one of the litter mates
Kev

[Judd Casper]

Sound points Sam, but you can't compare young grouse in late august/september with the partridge you normally see in september.
In a normal year the young grouse are almost identical to the old birds a couple of weeks into the season.
Last year what broods there were, were well grown on August and we putting up big coveys of seemingly full grown grouse. Some of them could only be identified by the odd bit of juvenile plumage and the weak lower mandible.
Definitely not soft poults and testing to catch believe me. Some outstanding hawks have come up short.
Another thing that gets overlooked is that as often as not the old birds jump first out of a covey and either pull a trick or take a hell of a blow and keep going. Either way those boots aren't being filled so fast!
Its impossible to fly young game for long as they don't stay young for long!!
They make good hawks even better not worse, but again that's an experience thing I suppose. My best tiercels kill rate on them was no alot better than late season grouse or partridge.

Comparing early season grouse with bagged game is also a new one on me but if you ever spent a couple of weeks grouse hawking Id bet you'd modify your views somewhat as I think you have painted a slightly distorted picture on early season grouse hawking.
One of the big name grouse hawkers of yesteryear said there were no easy grouse after Sept 1st. I tend to agree with him.
NickSept 1st Nick i thought you boy's where on your way home by then or very shortly after so you would just be leaving when the game is getting interesting.I would give them a month after the 12th of August and say they are no easy grouse but would still say one in November would be more of a challenge.I remember a young chap on the phone some years back flying put down partridge from pens that had been out for some two months and his tiercel was racking up a score on them. Then when he put it on wild grey's he struggled for some time to catch one and needed slip after slip for his hawk to get the measure of them,he was asking my advice and he got it the only way to make a hawk to quarry is fly the real thing can you remember that phone call Nicky.How are the two acquisitions coming along the big tiercel and the hybrid will they be ready for the 12th?

[Coupe]

Carl heres a few pics of Lee coopers pointer jack pointing for the 1st time
Kev

Quality pics kev, :supz: i recognise that car park im sure ive done a lot of dogging there myself.

[CloakDaggerTiercel]

Sept 1st Nick i thought you boy's where on your way home by then or very shortly after so you would just be leaving when the game is getting interesting.I would give them a month after the 12th of August and say they are no easy grouse but would still say one in November would be more of a challenge.I remember a young chap on the phone some years back flying put down partridge from pens that had been out for some two months and his tiercel was racking up a score on them. Then when he put it on wild grey's he struggled for some time to catch one and needed slip after slip for his hawk to get the measure of them,he was asking my advice and he got it the only way to make a hawk to quarry is fly the real thing can you remember that phone call Nicky.How are the two acquisitions coming along the big tiercel and the hybrid will they be ready for the 12th?

Like I say Sam, August grouse are a test, so are Sept grouse, so are October grouse and in November and December. My best tiercel killed more winter grouse than early season grouse, but I enjoyed the early ones just as much because at the end of the day they're all good honest wild quarry and don't lie down.
We'll be up ther into Sept and probably try and arrang a winter trip as usual.
Any month in the grouse hawking calendar has its pro's and cons.
August has midges, November has more bad weather and the grouse can real jumpy etc etc.
You've also countered your own point Sam the only way to master winter grouse is by flying the real thing and if that is in Aug/Sept then great, it contributes to making a great grouse hawk.

[Judd Casper]

Like I say Sam, August grouse are a test, so are Sept grouse, so are October grouse and in November and December. My best tiercel killed more winter grouse than early season grouse, but I enjoyed the early ones just as much because at the end of the day they're all good honest wild quarry and don't lie down.
We'll be up ther into Sept and probably try and arrang a winter trip as usual.
Any month in the grouse hawking calendar has its pro's and cons.
August has midges, November has more bad weather and the grouse can real jumpy etc etc.
You've also countered your own point Sam the only way to master winter grouse is by flying the real thing and if that is in Aug/Sept then great, it contributes to making a great grouse hawk.Nick the only way to master any game to any proficiency is to fly the real thing....and yes start the eyass off on young game for sure but the following season unless he or she had a poor first season they shouldn't need to be flown on young inexperienced game again....unless your into racking up numbers.I think the point you made on one of your posts about the adults jumping to save their young is a good example of the young quarry being inferior in speed of flight endurace and evasive skill compared to an adult...because the adults cease to do this when the quarry is well grown on and it is a strategy not confined just to red grouse.Also its a fact that by flying easier quarry a hawk can be put off making the effort to catch the tougher quarry,examples falcons refusing roosters and only stooping hens,falcons refusing pheasants altogether because they have been flown on smaller easier quarry,duck hawks refusing puddle ducks if they see divers on the water, duck hawks refusing everything else but ducks and all these problems are man made and could be eradicated with a bit of forethought by the falconer.

Sam

[CloakDaggerTiercel]

Nick the only way to master any game to any proficiency is to fly the real thing....and yes start the eyass off on young game for sure but the following season unless he or she had a poor first season they shouldn't need to be flown on young inexperienced game again....unless your into racking up numbers.I think the point you made on one of your posts about the adults jumping to save their young is a good example of the young quarry being inferior in speed of flight endurace and evasive skill compared to an adult...because the adults cease to do this when the quarry is well grown on and it is a strategy not confined just to red grouse.Also its a fact that by flying easier quarry a hawk can be put off making the effort to catch the tougher quarry,examples falcons refusing roosters and only stooping hens,falcons refusing pheasants altogether because they have been flown on smaller easier quarry,duck hawks refusing puddle ducks if they see divers on the water, duck hawks refusing everything else but ducks and all these problems are man made and could be eradicated with a bit of forethought by the falconer.

Sam

Sam,
If there was any dropping in performance on winter grouse by flying early season grouse we wouldn't be flying them.
Im not purely interested in numbers just a quality flight and thats what Scotland in August /September provides. If you had done any grouse hawking at all you'd know that. But maybe thats your gripe?
But what the hell, if it doesn't harm the hawks performance (it doesn't) why not go and slaughter a load of grouse, at any time of year?
I do it because I can and its fun, and you have all of the fringe benefits of being in one of the nicest places on earth.
Plus a good baking tin full of grouse with red wine sauce cooked properly is divine.
Those winter birds aren't in the same league. Thats why you were eating August grouse at Rosedale.

You make some decent points on the old easy quarry vs tough stuff but I don't think they are applicable in this case.
And in any case you've been known to hammer soft September partridge with your 'made hawks'.In fact Ive seen you in real life and on film. You've even been known to slay other peoples put down greys. Did it damage your hawks later on in the season?, probably not, or did it?

Nick

[Judd Casper]

Sam,
If there was any dropping in performance on winter grouse by flying early season grouse we wouldn't be flying them.
Im not purely interested in numbers just a quality flight and thats what Scotland in August /September provides. If you had done any grouse hawking at all you'd know that. But maybe thats your gripe?
But what the hell, if it doesn't harm the hawks performance (it doesn't) why not go and slaughter a load of grouse, at any time of year?
I do it because I can and its fun, and you have all of the fringe benefits of being in one of the nicest places on earth.
Plus a good baking tin full of grouse with red wine sauce cooked properly is divine.
Those winter birds aren't in the same league. Thats why you were eating August grouse at Rosedale.

You make some decent points on the old easy quarry vs tough stuff but I don't think they are applicable in this case.
And in any case you've been known to hammer soft September partridge with your 'made hawks'.In fact Ive seen you in real life and on film. You've even been known to slay other peoples put down greys. Did it damage your hawks later on in the season?, probably not, or did it?

NickSo your reason for being up there on the 12th is to fill your boots because the grouse taste better?I have seen grouse hawking in August and grouse hawking in late October they are poles apart.Your right i have caught partridge in mid to late September unlike you I don't have my hawks on all sorts to get them moulted early because i don't want to catch young game for the reasons i have stated unless the hawk is an eyass, yes i have caught young game in the past but i got out the numbers game and grew up.

Sam

[CloakDaggerTiercel]

So your reason for being up there on the 12th is to fill your boots because the grouse taste better?I have seen grouse hawking in August and grouse hawking in late October they are poles apart.Your right i have caught partridge in mid to late September unlike you I don't have my hawks on all sorts to get them moulted early because i don't want to catch young game for the reasons i have stated unless the hawk is an eyass, yes i have caught young game in the past but i got out the numbers game and grew up.

Sam


Who said I was going grouse hawking on the 12th?
You assume too much!
Im actually just going up to run my dog for other people and kite train my eyas and enjoy the ambience. I love the dog work just as much as the hawking.

I too have caught early season partridge, they provided great flights just like early season grouse.
You really have to experience what Scotland has to offer in late August early September to appreciate the flights on offer.

After Sept 1st the grouse get hard and id say they are at their hardest from the end of September, mostly because they become less willing to sit for a dog.. They are generally no harder after this and in some cases easier when they start to get stressed by cold weather.
This is based on spending 60 odd weeks in Scotland in all months of the season, not what I read in a book.

We look for quality set ups, high pitches, and and quality flights and a few grouse for the pot, mixed in with great camaraderie and some solitude away from the stresses of full time jobs. If we need to grow up to get out this then we will happily stay mired in our immaturity:lol:
Plus we've got a winter trip planned to see gauge how much we've ruined our hawks by going so low as August hawking!!!

No one in our party is after numbers, we've all gone through that phase.
But we do enjoy the culinary delights of grouse once there's a few in the fridge.

To finish you mention starting in mid-October. You must have forgotten that there are still plenty of pheasant poults around at that time. Pathetic creatures not in the same league as a wild red grouse in Sept, maybe if you believe your own **** you should delay it until November/December?
But I suspect that you too will be 'filling your boots'. Good luck to you and enjoy it.

Nick

[Dean]

If a fit falcon is above her game,in perfect,or near perfect position and the game has far enough to go,she has the percentages with her to connect!The game can be as fit as a butchers dog,it doesnt make the slightest difference!Now pigeon are a different ballgame!I honestly cannot say I take more or less mallard come january than I do in september,the falcons go up and stoop just as hard either way!I spent two seasons pheasant hawking on the estate when I first took up longwinging seriously,I found it to be a slaughter all season,most of the pheasant didnt even see the falcon coming,being spattled on the glide,then again this didnt effect me as it was the falcon stooping to an end result!!!One thing is for sure,no duck or pheasant would have been bagged had I not trained the falcons do so!!!

[Hatchero]

Who said I was going grouse hawking on the 12th?
You assume too much!
Im actually just going up to run my dog for other people and kite train my eyas and enjoy the ambience. I love the dog work just as much as the hawking.

I too have caught early season partridge, ...

Nick

god i love to see that it is not just an american thing, we falconers are all dicks wherever we live, it would seem. early grouse--late grouse---grouse on leks, it seems we have the same, somewhat fractious, discussions here in the US--it is like people arguing religion. who really cares? i don't fly early grouse because i am actually too busy killing ducks with peregrines at that time of year. i fly early grouse out of duty to make a young falcon that will be expected to do well on the winter version of this quarry feel like a superstud on this worthy quarry. early grouse do taste better, no doubt, but it is really a weak argument for their demise. if your holiday works out to be in the early fall and you have a bird that will benefit from making some kills on this quarry than i find it perfectly ok and probably the best path and if your bird does not really need easy grouse that is just fine as well as long as you are, personally, good with the action. as falconers we are weaker by this silly divisiveness that comes from our personal ambitions to stand out from out peers.
Jim

[Judd Casper]

Who said I was going grouse hawking on the 12th?
You assume too much!
Im actually just going up to run my dog for other people and kite train my eyas and enjoy the ambience. I love the dog work just as much as the hawking.

I too have caught early season partridge, they provided great flights just like early season grouse.
You really have to experience what Scotland has to offer in late August early September to appreciate the flights on offer.

After Sept 1st the grouse get hard and id say they are at their hardest from the end of September, mostly because they become less willing to sit for a dog.. They are generally no harder after this and in some cases easier when they start to get stressed by cold weather.
This is based on spending 60 odd weeks in Scotland in all months of the season, not what I read in a book.

We look for quality set ups, high pitches, and and quality flights and a few grouse for the pot, mixed in with great camaraderie and some solitude away from the stresses of full time jobs. If we need to grow up to get out this then we will happily stay mired in our immaturity:lol:
Plus we've got a winter trip planned to see gauge how much we've ruined our hawks by going so low as August hawking!!!

No one in our party is after numbers, we've all gone through that phase.
But we do enjoy the culinary delights of grouse once there's a few in the fridge.

To finish you mention starting in mid-October. You must have forgotten that there are still plenty of pheasant poults around at that time. Pathetic creatures not in the same league as a wild red grouse in Sept, maybe if you believe your own **** you should delay it until November/December?
But I suspect that you too will be 'filling your boots'. Good luck to you and enjoy it.

NickSeen loads of grouse killing falcons and tiercels just not have what it takes on late October/November roosters.I have the advantage on pheasants of spotting them first and if its a late pathetic poult i can drive on i have that option.Your only running your dog in Scotland?.....what happend to the new tiercel hybrid and the big tiercel peregrine why are they not Scotland bound i would have thought it would have done the pair of them the world of good.I do believe my own**** and this is why i have the same falcons and tiercels season in season out and I think my**** works, I don't get through falcons like some get through underware.

Sam

[CloakDaggerTiercel]

god i love to see that it is not just an american thing, we falconers are all dicks wherever we live, it would seem. early grouse--late grouse---grouse on leks, it seems we have the same, somewhat fractious, discussions here in the US--it is like people arguing religion. who really cares? i don't fly early grouse because i am actually too busy killing ducks with peregrines at that time of year. i fly early grouse out of duty to make a young falcon that will be expected to do well on the winter version of this quarry feel like a superstud on this worthy quarry. early grouse do taste better, no doubt, but it is really a weak argument for their demise. if your holiday works out to be in the early fall and you have a bird that will benefit from making some kills on this quarry than i find it perfectly ok and probably the best path and if your bird does not really need easy grouse that is just fine as well as long as you are, personally, good with the action. as falconers we are weaker by this silly divisiveness that comes from our personal ambitions to stand out from out peers.
Jim

Good points Jim. All Im trying to do is defend the corner of people going red grouse hawking in early season. In actual fact there is no need to defend it.

It differs a bit climate wise over here compared to the US. I don't know anything about sage grouse hawking apart from what Ive read and seen on film but it seems like sage grouse are slow maturing and allied to the fiercely hot autumns you can have over there the grouse in early season can overheat easily and be a lot easier than their winter counterparts.
Correct me if Im wrong , Im just surmising?.

Here in nothern Scotland you can have freezing cold late august weather and by mid september even the late grouse broods are fully grown and flying like bullets and in the cold weather they can go as far as they do in winter. So catching them is a nice test.
But on the flip side a top class grouse hawk makes them look pretty routine right through the season.
Bottom line is our grouse season both for gun and falconry opens on 12th August for a reason, because in most years the youngsters are mature enough for sustained flight. Some Yorkshire moors drive grouse up to a mile in this month over the line of guns because the grouse are physically up to it and the driven grouse is the most testing shot in UK gameshooting.

There are boom and bust years and the take is managed accordingly and a whole economy is based on people killing them.

We go grouse hawking at all times through the season because we enjoy it.
If at times the grouse are a little easier to catch who cares, it certainly doesn't take the edge of a good grouse hawk and in my own case warms them up nicely for ducks.

Nick

[CloakDaggerTiercel]

Seen loads of grouse killing falcons and tiercels just not have what it takes on late October/November roosters.I have the advantage on pheasants of spotting them first and if its a late pathetic poult i can drive on i have that option.Your only running your dog in Scotland?.....what happend to the new tiercel hybrid and the big tiercel peregrine why are they not Scotland bound i would have thought it would have done the pair of them the world of good.I do believe my own**** and this is why i have the same falcons and tiercels season in season out and I think my**** works, I don't get through falcons like some get through underware.

Sam

If you believe in what you do and enjoy it then great but you have to understand that have other people have other ways of getting to the same endpoint.
There's no point inferring that other people have lower morals or standards by starting in the early season because it just doesn't wash, sorry.
Is supposed to be fun not a p***ing match!

[Tezz]

Hi Nick,
Slightly off topic, how many dogs do you run when you go up to Scotland?
and what do you consider as being the Ideal moor for gamehawking with a dog?

Tezz

[Hatchero]

Good points Jim. All Im trying to do is defend the corner of people going red grouse hawking in early season. In actual fact there is no need to defend it.

It differs a bit climate wise over here compared to the US. I don't know anything about sage grouse hawking apart from what Ive read and seen on film but it seems like sage grouse are slow maturing and allied to the fiercely hot autumns you can have over there the grouse in early season can overheat easily and be a lot easier than their winter counterparts.
Correct me if Im wrong , Im just surmising?.

Here in nothern Scotland you can have freezing cold late august weather and by mid september even the late grouse broods are fully grown and flying like bullets and in the cold weather they can go as far as they do in winter. So catching them is a nice test.
But on the flip side a top class grouse hawk makes them look pretty routine right through the season.
Bottom line is our grouse season both for gun and falconry opens on 12th August for a reason, because in most years the youngsters are mature enough for sustained flight. Some Yorkshire moors drive grouse up to a mile in this month over the line of guns because the grouse are physically up to it and the driven grouse is the most testing shot in UK gameshooting.

There are boom and bust years and the take is managed accordingly and a whole economy is based on people killing them.

We go grouse hawking at all times through the season because we enjoy it.
If at times the grouse are a little easier to catch who cares, it certainly doesn't take the edge of a good grouse hawk and in my own case warms them up nicely for ducks.

Nick

certainly we have different conditions. in August we find grouse on the high flats (6000 to 7000 feet elevation) where it can rather cool, often you will have ice in the bathpans in the morning. the gun season is only a couple of weeks long and is usually in September but they are not a popular quarry for gunners in most places. the weather here is more variable from year to year than some places. it is not too unusual to have some snow in September, come october i have been hawking in teeshirts in early october and some years i have been hawking in -30F in early october--you never know. i would not say that the grouse are ever really easy(like catching ducks and lowland game), i have seen too many falcons quit them (permanently) even in august after too many failures on them. By november the grouse have switched back to eating sage(following a few weeks of hard freezing temps) and they get there winter game on. from what i have seen, about 1 in 10 falcons are able to catch these grouse with any consistency(about 1 kill in three flights is good for gyrs and one in five is excellent for anything smaller). a young bird started at this time of year is almost sure to quit them after a few flights. its all good as far as i am concerned. I should add that the dog work has to be about perfect later in the season. the dogs must be very strong and point from a long distance(40 yards is about perfect) as the big flocks of grouse can be jumpy and it may be a some miles before you locate another group. early grouse are more forgiving as they are usually in brood groups that are not too jumpy and are well scattered so you are not putting tens of miles on the dogs every day.
Jim

[Judd Casper]

If you believe in what you do and enjoy it then great but you have to understand that have other people have other ways of getting to the same endpoint.
There's no point inferring that other people have lower morals or standards by starting in the early season because it just doesn't wash, sorry.
Is supposed to be fun not a p***ing match!Carl asked me a question and i gave him MY honest answer and you had a dig at me for giving him that answer just because it didn't fit your own early season game hawking criteria, because you like to go on a moor for two weeks every year in August.... I did liked on your last post how you agreed with what i had been saying all along that grouse are a better quarry in late September than early August so we now agree on that do we.So your only gripe now can be that i said i wouldn't want to fly a good made hawk on early grouse in fear of souring it on the tougher task of late season birds, but again this is just my choice its not something written in stone by Moses.I also heard a good pal of yours had a nice high flyer of a tiercel that wouldn't stoop partridges last season...did he sour it by any chance and give himself a right old headache trying to rectify his mistakes. Hawks can be ruined as well as made by sloppy trainning regimes, this was my point and why I don't like taking any chances that might ruin or give me more work in rectifiying sloppy mistakes that could be so easily avoided.


Sam

[Judd Casper]

Jimcertainly we have different conditions. in August we find grouse on the high flats (6000 to 7000 feet elevation) where it can rather cool, often you will have ice in the bathpans in the morning. the gun season is only a couple of weeks long and is usually in September but they are not a popular quarry for gunners in most places. the weather here is more variable from year to year than some places. it is not too unusual to have some snow in September, come october i have been hawking in teeshirts in early october and some years i have been hawking in -30F in early october--you never know. i would not say that the grouse are ever really easy(like catching ducks and lowland game), i have seen too many falcons quit them (permanently) even in august after too many failures on them. By november the grouse have switched back to eating sage(following a few weeks of hard freezing temps) and they get there winter game on. from what i have seen, about 1 in 10 falcons are able to catch these grouse with any consistency(about 1 kill in three flights is good for gyrs and one in five is excellent for anything smaller). a young bird started at this time of year is almost sure to quit them after a few flights. its all good as far as i am concerned. I should add that the dog work has to be about perfect later in the season. the dogs must be very strong and point from a long distance(40 yards is about perfect) as the big flocks of grouse can be jumpy and it may be a some miles before you locate another group. early grouse are more forgiving as they are usually in brood groups that are not too jumpy and are well scattered so you are not putting tens of miles on the dogs every day.
JimJim our red grouse though a nice quarry are nothing like any of your grouse species and quite a bit smaller than your smallest native grouse type.Some of the old school over here have caught huge bags and three and a half brace with one hawk in a day is not unknown but these were probably early season grouse:lol:.....i think it would have to be an outstanding hawk and an outstanding achievement to be able to take three and a half brace of late season red grouse.


Sam

[Hatchero]

JimJim our red grouse though a nice quarry are nothing like any of your grouse species and quite a bit smaller than your smallest native grouse type.Some of the old school over here have caught huge bags and three and a half brace with one hawk in a day is not unknown but these were probably early season grouse:lol:.....i think it would have to be an outstanding hawk and an outstanding achievement to be able to take three and a half brace of late season red grouse.


Sam
catching 3.5 brace of any grouse at any time (other than helicopter poults) is what i would call a pretty good day for a falcon.
Jim

[CloakDaggerTiercel]

Carl asked me a question and i gave him MY honest answer and you had a dig at me for giving him that answer just because it didn't fit your own early season game hawking criteria, because you like to go on a moor for two weeks every year in August.... I did liked on your last post how you agreed with what i had been saying all along that grouse are a better quarry in late September than early August so we now agree on that do we.So your only gripe now can be that i said i wouldn't want to fly a good made hawk on early grouse in fear of souring it on the tougher task of late season birds, but again this is just my choice its not something written in stone by Moses.I also heard a good pal of yours had a nice high flyer of a tiercel that wouldn't stoop partridges last season...did he sour it by any chance and give himself a right old headache trying to rectify his mistakes. Hawks can be ruined as well as made by sloppy trainning regimes, this was my point and why I don't like taking any chances that might ruin or give me more work in rectifiying sloppy mistakes that could be so easily avoided.


Sam

Sam,

Grouse are great quarry at all times during the season. I don't think they are better in August vs September vs October. There are pro's and con's to each month.
Some grouse hawks fail on pheasant, some great pheasant hawks are a waste of time on the high ground re Rosedale. Some are good on ducks, some on partridge. Its always a trade off and the all- rounders are rare jewels but there is never the perfect gamehawk - thats what makes it so interesting and motivating don't you think.
You won't sour a made hawk game hawk flying early grouse with it.
If and when you ever fly a hawk on grouse you'll realise that, until then we'll agree to disagree eh.
Our dream is to fly a couple of our good hawks right through the season on the same moor at grouse.
Only a couple of people have ever done it and it would be the ultimate test of stamina for man. dog and hawk as even going up there for three weeks takes it out of you - walking 5-10 miles every day. Your're ready for a rest at the end of that.
It'll never happen but one can dream.
Winter grouse hawking is cleansing for the soul and early season is just as good in its own way.
I love winter grouse hawking, and the best preparation for it is funnily enough to fly grouse!
From the start of the season if possible but most people with full time jobs aren't so lucky but we do our best.

Not sure what you mean about my friends tiercel as he didn't fly it at grouse?
I know it was a seriously high flyer that nearly killed itself knocking a hen pheasant stone stead at the end of the season (an accidental flush) but that is another story.

[CloakDaggerTiercel]

certainly we have different conditions. in August we find grouse on the high flats (6000 to 7000 feet elevation) where it can rather cool, often you will have ice in the bathpans in the morning. the gun season is only a couple of weeks long and is usually in September but they are not a popular quarry for gunners in most places. the weather here is more variable from year to year than some places. it is not too unusual to have some snow in September, come october i have been hawking in teeshirts in early october and some years i have been hawking in -30F in early october--you never know. i would not say that the grouse are ever really easy(like catching ducks and lowland game), i have seen too many falcons quit them (permanently) even in august after too many failures on them. By november the grouse have switched back to eating sage(following a few weeks of hard freezing temps) and they get there winter game on. from what i have seen, about 1 in 10 falcons are able to catch these grouse with any consistency(about 1 kill in three flights is good for gyrs and one in five is excellent for anything smaller). a young bird started at this time of year is almost sure to quit them after a few flights. its all good as far as i am concerned. I should add that the dog work has to be about perfect later in the season. the dogs must be very strong and point from a long distance(40 yards is about perfect) as the big flocks of grouse can be jumpy and it may be a some miles before you locate another group. early grouse are more forgiving as they are usually in brood groups that are not too jumpy and are well scattered so you are not putting tens of miles on the dogs every day.
Jim

Thanks for the background Jim,
The main thing with winter grouse here is that the coveys start to break up in November into pairs (sometimes earlier, sometimes later if the weather is colder). This makes them more jumpy, or not as bad, it makes them scuttle like mad in front of the dog.
If the dog is a good one it will keep track with the grouse and put it up eventually and you will get a flight provided your falcon is high enough to cover all exits.
Wind makes them jumpy, rain even more so. When its wet the grouse invariable 'have their heads up' and you need to be a bit more on the ball.
The main trick the grouse have earlier in the season is for the cock birds to run behind the dog downwind and either jump or draw the dog away from the rest of the covey.
Like all forms of hawking the best grouse hawks are the ones that have grown up on the quarry and are used to all the nuances that are going on below them.
Our dogs usually point from 5-10 yards but ten our grouse don't tend to form big packs like sage grouse.
Nick

[Judd Casper]

nO BUT HE FLEW IT ON PARTRIDGE AND IT WOULDN'T STOOP THSESSam,

Grouse are great quarry at all times during the season. I don't think they are better in August vs September vs October. There are pro's and con's to each month.
Some grouse hawks fail on pheasant, some great pheasant hawks are a waste of time on the high ground re Rosedale. Some are good on ducks, some on partridge. Its always a trade off and the all- rounders are rare jewels but there is never the perfect gamehawk - thats what makes it so interesting and motivating don't you think.
You won't sour a made hawk game hawk flying early grouse with it.
If and when you ever fly a hawk on grouse you'll realise that, until then we'll agree to disagree eh.
Our dream is to fly a couple of our good hawks right through the season on the same moor at grouse.
Only a couple of people have ever done it and it would be the ultimate test of stamina for man. dog and hawk as even going up there for three weeks takes it out of you - walking 5-10 miles every day. Your're ready for a rest at the end of that.
It'll never happen but one can dream.
Winter grouse hawking is cleansing for the soul and early season is just as good in its own way.
I love winter grouse hawking, and the best preparation for it is funnily enough to fly grouse!
From the start of the season if possible but most people with full time jobs aren't so lucky but we do our best.

Not sure what you mean about my friends tiercel as he didn't fly it at grouse?
I know it was a seriously high flyer that nearly killed itself knocking a hen pheasant stone stead at the end of the season (an accidental flush) but that is another story.No but he flew it on partridge and it wouldn't stoop those,so he didn't take it to Scotland then?but he's had the new peales tiercel off you so that one failed did it or is it coming out for some rectifying,its funny how you have selective memory when certain questions are asked like where is the Passy tiercel and you new hybrid...Nick it must be real easy for you boy's when you play the numbers game are you boy's going for some sort of world record.

Sam

[CloakDaggerTiercel]

Hi Nick,
Slightly off topic, how many dogs do you run when you go up to Scotland?
and what do you consider as being the Ideal moor for gamehawking with a dog?

Tezz

Tezz,

We have three main dogs that are totally reliable and can cover 20-25 miles each a day.
Four would be ideal to cover injuries ,lameness etc.
Dry years are the worst as the dogs can get worn pads from the tinder dry heather dust on the floor.
The best moors for dogging are the traditional dogging moors of Caithness and Sutherland.
Here the ground is fairly flat, the heather short (its like tundra - 15%heather mixed with grass) and the grouse are more honest than moors with deep heather.
The grouse are spaced out at tundra ish densities so bi running dogs are a must.
English pointers or setters the only real choices, they are the only dogs (especially pointers) that can cover the huge amount of ground between covies.
My dog is a mongrel between the two!
Ive seen a couple of wire-haired germans that were very good on the ground they covered though.
Nick

[Coupe]

hi nicky,
i will be in Scotland on and off from the 16th of august to the 10th december with glyn cooper and carl cheshire, you are welcome to come along and join us earlier or late on. we have plenty of accomodation and kennels mews, bring you hawks.it would be great to meet you.
lee

[CloakDaggerTiercel]

nO BUT HE FLEW IT ON PARTRIDGE AND IT WOULDN'T STOOP THSESNo but he flew it on partridge and it wouldn't stoop those,so he didn't take it to Scotland then?but he's had the new peales tiercel off you so that one failed did it or is it coming out for some rectifying,its funny how you have selective memory when certain questions are asked like where is the Passy tiercel and you new hybrid...Nick it must be real easy for you boy's when you play the numbers game are you boy's going for some sort of world record.

Sam


I can't work out whether your posts are motivated by resentment, a misguided notion that you know what you're talking about or just plain jealousy or a little bit of all three?
You're next post will probably make that all a bit clearer as you dig yourself a bit deeper!
But keep going its giving all of us a giggle!
I haven't got a selective memory.Im just not answering questions that don't relate to the thread - early season grouse hawking.

Its funny how you always seem to resort to petty insults and tangents when you run out of rational and informed reasoning, which doesn't take you long.
For someone who has not spent one single day on grouse in Scotland you have have awful lot to say on grouse hawking!!!!
Have you ever caught a grouse?

For someone with the reputation as the most game hungry, kill at all costs (no matter what the pitch) falconer in the land I thought you would have emphasised with our 'numbers game' whatever that is?

I think anyone who is going grouse hawking or ever has will have been insulted by your comments. But then most of us can see through it.
If you can't or won't do a particular branch of falconry don't try and do it down to build yourself up because it tends to have the opposite effect....

[CloakDaggerTiercel]

hi nicky,
i will be in Scotland on and off from the 16th of august to the 10th december with glyn cooper and carl cheshire, you are welcome to come along and join us earlier or late on. we have plenty of accomodation and kennels mews, bring you hawks.it would be great to meet you.
lee


Thanks very much for the invite Lee.
I hope to call in sometime and have a walk out with you.
Ill give you a call.
Cheers,
Nick

[Judd Casper]

I can't work out whether your posts are motivated by resentment, a misguided notion that you know what you're talking about or just plain jealousy or a little bit of all three?
You're next post will probably make that all a bit clearer as you dig yourself a bit deeper!
But keep going its giving all of us a giggle!
I haven't got a selective memory.Im just not answering questions that don't relate to the thread - early season grouse hawking.

Its funny how you always seem to resort to petty insults and tangents when you run out of rational and informed reasoning, which doesn't take you long.
For someone who has not spent one single day on grouse in Scotland you have have awful lot to say on grouse hawking!!!!
Have you ever caught a grouse?

For someone with the reputation as the most game hungry, kill at all costs (no matter what the pitch) falconer in the land I thought you would have emphasised with our 'numbers game' whatever that is?

I think anyone who is going grouse hawking or ever has will have been insulted by your comments. But then most of us can see through it.
If you can't or won't do a particular branch of falconry don't try and do it down to build yourself up because it tends to have the opposite effect....Took your time on this one Nick have you been back to school to look up the answer to my last question that you dodge yet again, or have you been getting told what to say again by the team and its took four minds to think of the answer.Rational informed reasoning.......what talking to you give me a break your just not clever enough.
Funny quite a few have called me to tell me what a giggle they are getting at your expense.....yet again....about Scotland grouse seen it quite a few times early and late and made up my own mind.

Sam

[CloakDaggerTiercel]

Took your time on this one Nick have you been back to school to look up the answer to my last question that you dodge yet again, or have you been getting told what to say again by the team and its took four minds to think of the answer.Rational informed reasoning.......what talking to you give me a break your just not clever enough.
Funny quite a few have called me to tell me what a giggle they are getting at your expense.....yet again....about Scotland grouse seen it quite a few times early and late and made up my own mind.

Sam

There she blows!
Thanks :lol:

[Judd Casper]

There she blows!
Thanks :lol:WHAT ORCA you've lost her already....there she blows like your beloved SEA BASS across the Irish sea:lol:Tim nice but dim your gonna have to get yourself a new type of hybrid one with fruit bat in it because that's what everyones saying and thinking, one that wont come to grief with your rigorous training regime.


Sam

[GameHawker]

Guy's stop throwing your teddies out of your cot's

Regards

Carl

[Coupe]

Guy's stop throwing your teddies out of your cot's

Regards

Carl

yeh guys this is gamehawkers thread, if you want to carry this argument on why not get your own thread, my be calling it (nicky :box: sam), tell you what il post it for yeh .its done deal, regards to both of you, glyn

[TiercelJim]

57801

57802

57803

Pulled Sharpe out of his chamber and added him to the cadge with Wilma.

Regards

Carl

looking good carl! got an awsum film of sharpe flying grouse over your dog somewere must dig it out......:lol::lol::roll::goodman:

[GameHawker]

looking good carl! got an awsum film of sharpe flying grouse over your dog somewere must dig it out......:lol::roll::goodman:

Jim If I was you I wouldn't bother with the camera this year seeing as you did such a **** job last year at filming my flight. It wasn't the filming it was the editing after wards admit it you where jealous ;). That would have made classic film footage GSP on point Tiercel mounting nicely the flush the knock down, then you delete it.

Never mind buddy.

Carl

[TiercelJim]

Jim If I was you I wouldn't bother with the camera this year seeing as you did such a **** job last year at filming my flight. It wasn't the filming it was the editing after wards admit it you where jealous ;). That would have made classic film footage GSP on point Tiercel mounting nicely the flush the knock down, then you delete it.

Never mind buddy.

Carl

lol, I was as gutted as you mate that footage was a one off,me and technology dont go well...Ps just got new mobile didnt save my numbers to sim so lost them all:lol: youll have to send yours through or see you tuesday.

[TiercelJim]

[quote=TiercelJim;853072]

Jim she is 8 months old this week. Starting to do a little bit of basic work with her. how are you getting on with yours any photo's of her.

Off to the CLA in a few hours time. I'll give you a call next week.


Regards

Carl

picture for you carl of the pup! how do you get vids up on here?

[GameHawker]

[quote=GameHawker;853286]

picture for you carl of the pup! how do you get vids up on here?

Jim,
You should have a go at some pointer and setter trials next year with her buddy you'll find it good fun and the shooting guy's will love another falconer trialling. I'll give you some dates for next year. Going to do a few next year with the hell machine Isabelle.

Carl

[TiercelJim]

Still early days yet carl,allways had spaniels this is my first pointer as you know but if she turns out right yes id consider trailing her.talk soon.
jim

[GameHawker]

Update on my 2 Sharpe has been on the kite for only 4 days he's up to 800ft already. Wilma has taken a little time to get her to take the lure on the kite but with a bit of slight weight reduction she is doing about 300ft and should be up to about a 1000ft by Monday. Off to Scotland a week on Friday for a week.

Regards Carl

[Bwana]

i always have to laugh when folks brag about the sage grouse that they catch in September and October, as if that were the real deal. I don't even count grouse caught before the end of November(and only fly young birds on early grouse). the difference between a sage grouse flight in October and a flight in January is so dramatic that you would think they are a different species. by the way, i like the car perch you have. i do, however, find that long astro turf will wear the undertail coverts and the outer tail feathers quite a bit due to the rough terrain and the constant jostling the birds get. i find cheap shag carpet works best for me since the birds can hang on to it and it does not wear the feathers to nothing like astroturf does(especially the long astroturf).
Jim

Cheap shag can cost you dear

[Hyfly]

Hi carl just a quick note to see how willmas doing is it :rolleyes: or :-x .

[GameHawker]

No problems Geoff of to scotland with Lee Cooper on the 15th of August for the first week of are grouse hawking trips. When are yo picking your falcon up?

Carl

[CloakDaggerTiercel]

Update on my 2 Sharpe has been on the kite for only 4 days he's up to 800ft already. Wilma has taken a little time to get her to take the lure on the kite but with a bit of slight weight reduction she is doing about 300ft and should be up to about a 1000ft by Monday. Off to Scotland a week on Friday for a week.

Regards Carl

Hi Carl,
Sounds like a nice team.
Im driving up through the night a week on Saturday (I like the empty roads).
Looking forward to it even more than usual even though Im not flying myself.
Good hawking up there,
Nick

[TiercelJim]

sounds great nick/carl!!
we might have a spare place if anyones interested?were going the first two weeks in sept, they'll be a place the second week if your interested pm me but we dont want any gimps,goons or bitches:lol:
you'll need your own dog to fly over and be up for the crack!
jim

[GameHawker]

The season so far I have been flying grouse with Lee and Glynn Cooper travelled up to speyside on the 16th we have lost a few days to the weather. but finding plenty of grouse in good size covey's well grown on. All dogs working hard and beuilding on there fitness, first nice day yesterday( wind had dropped). First flight of the day was with Lee's tiercel Jeffery with a point from Jucy Lucy, tiercel mount well commanding the point with a flush on command an a nice bind a fierce old devil he is.

59408

Second flight was with my tiercel Sharpe and pointed by Mitch. climded lovely when grouse broke whilst out of position, sharped turned on a instant and tracked across the sky then folded up and slammed the lead grouse into the heather threw up turned over and lost grouse in heather.

third flight was with Wilma kite trained eyas falcon breed by Seth Anthony from Langley Mews. Slipped dog from pick instantly locking on point fumbled with leash and swivel because not quite ready. Didn't make any difference Wilma left the glove and mounted straight into the wind mounting only like kite trained falcon can. Grouse had moved mitch was relocting grouse when the decsion was made to slip Jucy. Jucy and Mitch relocated covey and falcon was brought over the point. The command was given to flush and grouse dispersed down wind. Wilma with a look of intent turned over and took up chase gaining all the time until like the spice girls song 2 became 1 (red letter day). this has been her 4th flight on game and she is improving with every flight.

59409

4th Flight was with Glynn's Coope'sr falcon Milly. He had just come back from picking his Wife and kids up from Inverness airport. Was a little rushed to get on a get his falcons flown Ozzy was cast of and located grouse on the first cast milly was released straight away and mount nice glynn called for the flush and Ozzy produced a single grouse which went of like a exocet missle, with Milly in close pursuit but unfortunately the grouse dumped into cover this was her first flight this season and is already looking good.

5th flight was with Glynn's Tiercel forgot its name for now. Ozzy again located grouse and tercel mounted really well this little star is improving with fitness with every flight. grouse was flushed on command and the little fella turned over forcing it grouse to bail into cover throw up and battered it into the ground. Bt grouse got away phot to follow tomorrow running out of time.
59410
Carl

[CloudBase1664]

Good stuff Carl.Looks like you;ve got a good un there mate .Give my regards to Lee and Glyn

Dave

[Dean]

The season so far I have been flying grouse with Lee and Glynn Cooper travelled up to speyside on the 16th we have lost a few days to the weather. but finding plenty of grouse in good size covey's well grown on. All dogs working hard and beuilding on there fitness, first nice day yesterday( wind had dropped). First flight of the day was with Lee's tiercel Jeffery with a point from Jucy Lucy, tiercel mount well commanding the point with a flush on command an a nice bind a fierce old devil he is.

59408

Second flight was with my tiercel Sharpe and pointed by Mitch. climded lovely when grouse broke whilst out of position, sharped turned on a instant and tracked across the sky then folded up and slammed the lead grouse into the heather threw up turned over and lost grouse in heather.

third flight was with Wilma kite trained eyas falcon breed by Seth Anthony from Langley Mews. Slipped dog from pick instantly locking on point fumbled with leash and swivel because not quite ready. Didn't make any difference Wilma left the glove and mounted straight into the wind mounting only like kite trained falcon can. Grouse had moved mitch was relocting grouse when the decsion was made to slip Jucy. Jucy and Mitch relocated covey and falcon was brought over the point. The command was given to flush and grouse dispersed down wind. Wilma with a look of intent turned over and took up chase gaining all the time until like the spice girls song 2 became 1 (red letter day). this has been her 4th flight on game and she is improving with every flight.

59409

4th Flight was with Glynn's Coope'sr falcon Milly. He had just come back from picking his Wife and kids up from Inverness airport. Was a little rushed to get on a get his falcons flown Ozzy was cast of and located grouse on the first cast milly was released straight away and mount nice glynn called for the flush and Ozzy produced a single grouse which went of like a exocet missle, with Milly in close pursuit but unfortunately the grouse dumped into cover this was her first flight this season and is already looking good.

5th flight was with Glynn's Tiercel forgot its name for now. Ozzy again located grouse and tercel mounted really well this little star is improving with fitness with every flight. grouse was flushed on command and the little fella turned over forcing it grouse to bail into cover throw up and battered it into the ground. Bt grouse got away phot to follow tomorrow running out of time.
59410
Carl
Top Drawer Carl,except for the bit about the kite????:lol:Got a tiercel here that wont stop climbing unless I make him,bet he wouldnt do those grouse though!!!!!:lol:

[TiercelJim]

text book carl!glad to see your enjoying yourselfs:supz:
jim

[Hatchero]

The season so far I have been flying grouse with Lee and Glynn Cooper travelled up to speyside on the 16th we have lost a few days to the weather. but finding plenty of grouse in good size covey's well grown on. All dogs working hard and beuilding on there fitness, first nice day yesterday( wind had dropped). First flight of the day was with Lee's tiercel Jeffery with a point from Jucy Lucy, tiercel mount well commanding the point with a flush on command an a nice bind a fierce old devil he is.

59408

Second flight was with my tiercel Sharpe and pointed by Mitch. climded lovely when grouse broke whilst out of position, sharped turned on a instant and tracked across the sky then folded up and slammed the lead grouse into the heather threw up turned over and lost grouse in heather.

third flight was with Wilma kite trained eyas falcon breed by Seth Anthony from Langley Mews. Slipped dog from pick instantly locking on point fumbled with leash and swivel because not quite ready. Didn't make any difference Wilma left the glove and mounted straight into the wind mounting only like kite trained falcon can. Grouse had moved mitch was relocting grouse when the decsion was made to slip Jucy. Jucy and Mitch relocated covey and falcon was brought over the point. The command was given to flush and grouse dispersed down wind. Wilma with a look of intent turned over and took up chase gaining all the time until like the spice girls song 2 became 1 (red letter day). this has been her 4th flight on game and she is improving with every flight.

59409

4th Flight was with Glynn's Coope'sr falcon Milly. He had just come back from picking his Wife and kids up from Inverness airport. Was a little rushed to get on a get his falcons flown Ozzy was cast of and located grouse on the first cast milly was released straight away and mount nice glynn called for the flush and Ozzy produced a single grouse which went of like a exocet missle, with Milly in close pursuit but unfortunately the grouse dumped into cover this was her first flight this season and is already looking good.

5th flight was with Glynn's Tiercel forgot its name for now. Ozzy again located grouse and tercel mounted really well this little star is improving with fitness with every flight. grouse was flushed on command and the little fella turned over forcing it grouse to bail into cover throw up and battered it into the ground. Bt grouse got away phot to follow tomorrow running out of time.
59410
Carl

outstanding! i love the pictures of the heather, i grow it here in my alpine gardens even though it takes some care to grow in this part of the world. I am glad to see you guys going after it with peregrines on "the quarry" . keep the pics comming if you can remember. good show guys.
Jim hatchett

[Dean]

Carl,at approx what height were the grouse flown from???All falcons flew excellent but I would like to get a clearer picture in my head? cheers Dean!

[CloakDaggerTiercel]

Well done on the grouse Carl!
Sounds like you guys had some good sport.
I wanted to call in on Glyn on Lee on my way south but my sister is getting married at the weekend so there's a million things to organise and I had to rush back. Ill hopefully hook up with them later on in the season.
We found lots of covies of mature grouse and had some great flights, great laughs and a nice relaxing time.
Will put up some pics when I get a chance.
Regards,
Nick

ps I need to order one of you shelf perches. Will apply thru the normal channels.

[MarshallDirect]

Looking good Carl, glad you had a great time. Looking forward to starting on the grouse myself.

Yours

Ste Lea

[Falcons7]

YOU SPELL IT JEFFREY NOT JEFFERY ,GET HIS NAME RIGHT YOUNG KARL ,HAH
jeff


The season so far I have been flying grouse with Lee and Glynn Cooper travelled up to speyside on the 16th we have lost a few days to the weather. but finding plenty of grouse in good size covey's well grown on. All dogs working hard and beuilding on there fitness, first nice day yesterday( wind had dropped). First flight of the day was with Lee's tiercel Jeffery with a point from Jucy Lucy, tiercel mount well commanding the point with a flush on command an a nice bind a fierce old devil he is.

59408

Second flight was with my tiercel Sharpe and pointed by Mitch. climded lovely when grouse broke whilst out of position, sharped turned on a instant and tracked across the sky then folded up and slammed the lead grouse into the heather threw up turned over and lost grouse in heather.

third flight was with Wilma kite trained eyas falcon breed by Seth Anthony from Langley Mews. Slipped dog from pick instantly locking on point fumbled with leash and swivel because not quite ready. Didn't make any difference Wilma left the glove and mounted straight into the wind mounting only like kite trained falcon can. Grouse had moved mitch was relocting grouse when the decsion was made to slip Jucy. Jucy and Mitch relocated covey and falcon was brought over the point. The command was given to flush and grouse dispersed down wind. Wilma with a look of intent turned over and took up chase gaining all the time until like the spice girls song 2 became 1 (red letter day). this has been her 4th flight on game and she is improving with every flight.

59409

4th Flight was with Glynn's Coope'sr falcon Milly. He had just come back from picking his Wife and kids up from Inverness airport. Was a little rushed to get on a get his falcons flown Ozzy was cast of and located grouse on the first cast milly was released straight away and mount nice glynn called for the flush and Ozzy produced a single grouse which went of like a exocet missle, with Milly in close pursuit but unfortunately the grouse dumped into cover this was her first flight this season and is already looking good.

5th flight was with Glynn's Tiercel forgot its name for now. Ozzy again located grouse and tercel mounted really well this little star is improving with fitness with every flight. grouse was flushed on command and the little fella turned over forcing it grouse to bail into cover throw up and battered it into the ground. Bt grouse got away phot to follow tomorrow running out of time.
59410
Carl

[Nickic]

looking good carl!

[GameHawker]

Well done on the grouse Carl!
Sounds like you guys had some good sport.
I wanted to call in on Glyn on Lee on my way south but my sister is getting married at the weekend so there's a million things to organise and I had to rush back. Ill hopefully hook up with them later on in the season.
We found lots of covies of mature grouse and had some great flights, great laughs and a nice relaxing time.
Will put up some pics when I get a chance.
Regards,
Nick

ps I need to order one of you shelf perches. Will apply thru the normal channels.

Glad you had a good one Nicky how is your Peales doing. Should back up there soon.

PS. Drop me a PM with your address and I get one sorted for you.

[GameHawker]

YOU SPELL IT JEFFREY NOT JEFFERY ,GET HIS NAME RIGHT YOUNG KARL ,HAH
jeff

He's a stunning looking tiercel Jeff and its Carl not Karl :wink:

[Falcons7]

Thanks Karl ,I know ,with a ''C'' ,did it on purpose.Hope he is doing well for Lee ,i hope to get up during the season mate
jeff


He's a stunning looking tiercel Jeff and its Carl not Karl :wink:

[CloakDaggerTiercel]

Glad you had a good one Nicky how is your Peales doing. Should back up there soon.

PS. Drop me a PM with your address and I get one sorted for you.

Hi Carl,

The peales is doing really well. Nearly running out of kite line:lol:.
She'll be on it for another month or so then we'll give some ducks hell!
Its nice to see her powering up into a strong wind like she has evolved to.
Those long wings really pack some torque.

Her brother is looking the real deal. Very aerial and aggressive.
Early days but both are going the right way.

Pics of Orca and last one is Villius the tiercel

.

[Hyfly]

No problems Geoff of to scotland with Lee Cooper on the 15th of August for the first week of are grouse hawking trips. When are yo picking your falcon up?

Carl
got hybrid from ste marony he,s doin ok ellis is getting him ready for me, smaller than hoped but got a lovely temprement ,got your pics of the teircel looking good :)