Goshawk breeding

[Goldie]

Today I opened the partition between the gosses and let the male into her chamber, so far so good :D I am always a little concerned for the wellbeing of the male at this time but they seem to have settled ok. An attempted copulation was observed this afternoon so it looks ok. After both nest sites were investigated by the female she decided hers was best and proceeded to pinch some twigs from his :lol: I'm quite glad of this cos the cctv in her chamber is better placed to see into the nest whereas the sunlight effects the quality of picture I get of his nest ledge for a big part of the day. It's early days yet but I'm optimistic.

[Jack Merlin]

Good for you, Goldie! Keep us posted. Hope the pair get on well. Sounds good.

Don't think mine will do anything this year. The male is still on the trolley and the new female is put out to weather near him during the day. The tiercel is displaying like mad and playing with bits of twig but the new female is totally disinterested and still hates me. I am reluctantly reducing her weight.

I am feeding rabbits and at this time of the year they are usually a bit lean. But after the mild winter they are rolling in fat. Not the best of foods to make a gos keen. Will probably change to supermarket chicken for the female tomorrow as I do not like the current situation. She has now been here a month and she was so fat at first she really did not care much for me at all. Still, there is no hurry as I've stopped flying for this season.

[OutFlying]

Hello Jack,
If the female is for breeding - why are you trying to man her and reduce her weight ? I'd have thought they'd both be at top weight looking at each other throught he divide in the breeding avairy. A friend pair are going through the motions now.
Outflying.

[Jack Merlin]

Hi Outflying,

Good question. I don't have my aviary built yet. The female only arrived here about a month ago and, from her condition, she was probably loose in the mews before that. I have a great relationship with the tiercel -- he is not quite sure who he should be displaying to! (Me or the new girl). The female, meantime, has to be tethered and I hate to have any animal or bird here that looks at me as if it wished me dead! So, I have to form a relationship with this bird. It only takes a little attention every day as she was well manned before the move.

[Goldie]

Yes Jack will keep you posted. Birds were copulating this morning and both are continuing to put greenery in her nest so that appears to be the one of choice :D . If memory serves me well I believe KK is a finnish, what about the female, where did you get her?

[Jack Merlin]

KK is German X Finn. The new female is from imported German parents but she looks very like the Finns I have seen in pictures on here.

I am told the Germans breed big goshawks so perhaps she is Finnish via Germany? She apparently flies at 2lb 10oz but her sisters were smaller.

KK flew at 1lb 11oz and again his brothers were smaller. He is displaying to me, but hots up considerably when the female is also present. Poor sod is obviously very confused!<g>

Almost finished the female's trolley today -- at least if she is on this 24/7, next to KK, they can get acquainted while I get on with the aviary.

[Goldie]

Thats interesting jack cos I would have thought that 2.10 would have been more likely to be Fin/German than just german.

[OutFlying]

If it was taking hares at 2-10 I'd say it,s as big as most p/r finnish females

[Jack Merlin]

I suppose some of the German falconers could be breeding pure Finns. I am not too bothered. KK is, for me, just about the right size. I don't really need a 2lb 10oz gos, though having said that, there was a flock of about 2,000 grey lags feeding in one of my neighbour's fields today!<vbg> Apparently, she has taken one goose already, plus several hares.

[Goldie]

If it was taking hares at 2-10 I'd say it,s as big as most p/r finnish females
I go to the czech rep eagle meet where the also fly a lot of gosses. Most of these females are in the 2lb - 2lb.2 bracket and they take hares all day long. Granted most of them are imprints and two years ago one of them took a roe deer, now thats impressive! funniest thing was the falconer running like **** to help his bird. He wasn't as streamlined as the bird :o

[OutFlying]

There's not too many gosses flying at 2-10 taking hares in this country and definately not a german gos, the czechs don't have any rabbits (do they ?) so hares are there main sport (?). I can see if solely flown at one species that hawks will take on the extreme but once shown the easier option they would be become reluctant to take the difficult game after a period of time.
Once Jack has the female flying himself next season, he will know it exact flying weight and the range of prey it will take. Maybe 2-10 was its highest successful weight and 2-5/6 was its normal flying weight - who know till the new owner flies it himself.

Outflying

[Jack Merlin]

Just had a private mail from the previous owner. He confirms 2lb 10oz which wasn't really necessary as I had that weight from another source too. It is kosher. She makes KK look like a female spar!

From what I've heard, weight hasn't a whole lot to do with it. Courage is as important and even some German gosses flying at 2lbs will take hares. I am pretty sure that KK would try the first one he saw as he has never refused anything he has been flown at yet. He caught 18 rabbits in his second season, sometimes three in one day. He would have taken more but I prefer bird hawking. These are 3lb 8oz Scottish rabbits. I would not claim that he is a Finn but there is apparently some Finn in him. I believe the German gosses have more fire and courage, but I can't really produce any evidence.

[OutFlying]

Hello Jack,
I as stated earlier, you will only know what it flies at when you have flown it yourself. What someone else flies their gosses at may vary quite a lot from what you fly then at - up or down.
Regarding more fire and courage in German goshawks, I don't believe this too true. A goshawk will be what you make it, regardless of origin - it will need to have a certain physical size to tackle larger prey regularly over a number of seasons. My second male took 89 pheasants in his first season, with an even split between cocks and hens - he also took drake mallards easily - any more fire and courage and he'd have brought a low flying Easyjet down :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:. I've seen him have some horridous battles on the ground with cock birds but he never gave him.

Outflying.

[Jastreb]

We have nice marrige!

[Jastreb]

Here we are!

[Goldie]

Well it's over a week now since the male was allowed in to the female and everything is going well. this male must have read the Kama Sutra he just wont stop. he takes her on the perch, the nest site, the floor, he's even had her on the food platform. I'm going to change his name to Martini :lol:
If he doesn't fill eggs then I'm a monkeys uncle.
I'm surprised how big the nest has become,they both had plenty nesting materials for their own individual nests but his has been robbed to the extreme and its all in hers. She didn't lay till 8th april last year and the 10th the year before so a bit to go yet I should think.
Has any one else got gosses laying yet. Natural pairings that is?

[BrianM]

charge on goldie .. i hope all goes well

[OutFlying]

She didn't lay till 8th april last year and the 10th the year before so a bit to go yet I should think.
Has any one else got gosses laying yet. Natural pairings that is?

No, too early yet. A friends pair are at the same stage as yourself. I'd say a couple of weeks to go.

[Gos]

no to early for my pairs yet

[Goldie]

Woke up this morning, very windy and ****ing down had breakfast switched on the cctv and low and behold :D :D :D yep she has layed the first egg,

[HawkMan69UK]

let miy female in yesterday with the male lots noise at first but calmed down noe his coverts were like an umbrella but i think he has stage fright now :lol: she taking food to the nest the one that he built and is displaying and calling but not sur if anything has happened yet i have 5 cctv cams and they both go on yhe floor out of site fingers crossed though :lol: and well done goldie :lol:

[M & J Raptors]

Woke up this morning, very windy and ****ing down had breakfast switched on the cctv and low and behold :D :D :D yep she has layed the first egg,

Goldie

What are the origin of the gosses your breeding ? have they produced before,

cheers

[Mary Quite Contrary]

Well it's over a week now since the male was allowed in to the female and everything is going well. this male must have read the Kama Sutra he just wont stop. he takes her on the perch, the nest site, the floor, he's even had her on the food platform. I'm going to change his name to Martini :lol:
If he doesn't fill eggs then I'm a monkeys uncle.
I'm surprised how big the nest has become,they both had plenty nesting materials for their own individual nests but his has been robbed to the extreme and its all in hers. She didn't lay till 8th april last year and the 10th the year before so a bit to go yet I should think.
Has any one else got gosses laying yet. Natural pairings that is?

Have you taken any orders for them or are you waiting for a while

[Goldie]

[
Goldie

What are the origin of the gosses your breeding ? have they produced before,

cheers

Hi Mick,the female was bred by adie williams 1998
the male by s evans also 1998. both birds have bred before but not as a pair. They are european gosses as such but flew at reasonable weights. 2lb.2 and 1lb.7

[Goldie]

[

Have you taken any orders for them or are you waiting for a while

Hi mate, No I dont like to count my chickens, or should that be gosses :lol: I believe in the law of sod :wink:

[M & J Raptors]

[
Goldie

What are the origin of the gosses your breeding ? have they produced before,

cheers

Hi Mick,the female was bred by adie williams 1998
the male by s evans also 1998. both birds have bred before but not as a pair. They are european gosses as such but flew at reasonable weights. 2lb.2 and 1lb.7

Hi Goldie or ?

Sorry but i do not you name, it seems this list is a bit of a secret identity, i have also, but i think everybody should have thier name not an alias,
anyway Ade Williams, not seen him for years, done a bit of hawking with him back in the old WHC before the split, i know Simon evens well, nice chap he sold all his birds last year, a friend of mine had a male from Simon in 1997 from a fin/German pair nice bird, flew at 1lb 8oz,
first time together ? seem to be doing OK. good luck.

Mick

[Goldie]

Hi Mick
Quite agree about the alias's but each to there own.
Yes first time together for them as a pair but I bred from the female the last two years and I bred from the male last year, different partners.
The females first partner died in november and I bought a replacement (unproven) so I have put the proven male in with her as she is the better of the two females and started from scratch with the other pair. The new male is a 2002 and has shown no signs of coming in to condition so maybe next year.

Jim

[Goldie]

switched on the cctv again this morning to find egg number two :) I have pulled egg #1. Roll on sunday.
How are you other lads with the natural pairs doing?

[HawkMan69UK]

nothing i think he has stage fright noe he only displays when she has flown into the other avairy and when she comes back in he panidcks and flys in the opposit direction but she shows no sighn of aggrasion and her coverts are out :?: :!: :!: any ideas anyone :lol:

[Goldie]

from your previous post he seems as though he's ready enough but may lack confidence. I am assuming of course that he's unproven? what age are they.

[Hawkmaster]

I have an imprint female and she is less interested this year than last , at least last year she was damn aweful towards me and attacked me all the time.

Now she just make a noise and wants to grab me if I come close.

Does anyone have any advice, I know nothing about breeding, AI or being a breeder, which is not my goal but it seems the right thing to try by her?

Paul

[Natch]

young finnish felmale layed first egg today before morther

[Finnish]

So what are you saying Gary you just got your first egg :?:If so fair play you have been watching them for ages. 8)

[HawkMan69UK]

she is 3 this year and he is 4/5

[Finnish]

No wrong she is two this year :butthead:

[HawkMan69UK]

no 3

[HawkMan69UK]

:axe:

[Finnish]

You might be right i cant remember now been up the pub for two :oops: hours

[Natch]

:weedman:

[HawkMan69UK]

gary told me i thought she was alrady 3 but same age as his female :weedman: good luck with the eggs gary :lol:

[Natch]

No wrong she is two this year :butthead:

Lee you are right she is only 1 at the moment.She will be two on 28/05/05 so the beers did not effect your brain :drinkers:

Her mum laid her first egg this morning.

Cheers Gary

[Goldie]

what age did you say she was??? :? :roll: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[MickeyDredd]

somewhere between 1 and 3 I think :rolleyes: :lol:

[M & J Raptors]

I have an imprint female and she is less interested this year than last , at least last year she was damn aweful towards me and attacked me all the time.

Now she just make a noise and wants to grab me if I come close.

Does anyone have any advice, I know nothing about breeding, AI or being a breeder, which is not my goal but it seems the right thing to try by her?

Paul

Hi Paul

Firstly, has she been imprinted correctly ? flown and hunted, how old , and what origin,

[HawkMan69UK]

:oops: just checking paperwork we are not talking about mia ....were talking about the bird that chris brown bred mia was born on 26/05/04 the bird im breeding was born on 28/06/03 so ok she is 3 next year :D 8) who cares now cause they shagged :lol:

[Gaz]

who cares now cause they shagged

"IT DONT MEAN A THING...IF IT AINT GOT THAT ZING...."

[HawkMan69UK]

me dont care about de zing she anit nailed a ting :mrgreen:

[Hawkmaster]

Firstly, has she been imprinted correctly ? flown and hunted, how old , and what origin
Mick I appreciate you coming back to me on this, as I feel like a fart in the wilderness on all this breed stuff.

I do not know how she was imprinted and have battled to find out who did it even.

I have flown and hunted her the past two seasons now and she is as I have said probably the most rubbish Gos on the forum, but is is improving all the time. I had hassels at first with her screaming, but we seem to be over that now and she is getting better out in the field with various things. The short of it is, she was working anf killing.

As far as her origins are concerned her paperwork says the following:
Breeder: G Thompson
Hatched:28/05/2001
Sold to M Underwood from Staffordshire
Sold to M Morgan from Gwent 30/10/2002
I got her Octber 2003
Parent ring numbers are UK81*** and ***28W

I fly her at 2lbs 5oz

Hope that means anything and I know is probably over kill.

Cheers Paul

[M & J Raptors]

Firstly, has she been imprinted correctly ? flown and hunted, how old , and what origin
Mick I appreciate you coming back to me on this, as I feel like a fart in the wilderness on all this breed stuff.

I do not know how she was imprinted and have battled to find out who did it even.

I have flown and hunted her the past two seasons now and she is as I have said probably the most rubbish Gos on the forum, but is is improving all the time. I had hassels at first with her screaming, but we seem to be over that now and she is getting better out in the field with various things. The short of it is, she was working anf killing.

As far as her origins are concerned her paperwork says the following:
Breeder: G Thompson
Hatched:28/05/2001
Sold to M Underwood from Staffordshire
Sold to M Morgan from Gwent 30/10/2002
I got her Octber 2003
Parent ring numbers are UK81*** and ***28W

I fly her at 2lbs 5oz

Hope that means anything and I know is probably over kill.

Cheers Paul

Hi Paul

Yes i know the bird, syco, not been imprinted correctly, more like a Mal imprint, bit like you read about in the old books, :lol:

i think you will have big problems getting her to accept semen, too much aggression, best wait till she lays an egg before you open the pen door and try to inseminate her,
best of luck


Mick.

[Hawkmaster]

Thanks mate, I only wanted her for hunting so not a big problem, just though it would be nice to try.

At least she is nice to me this year, last year was the pits. I have big plans for her with hunting with year though.

[M & J Raptors]

Thanks mate, I only wanted her for hunting so not a big problem, just though it would be nice to try.

At least she is nice to me this year, last year was the pits. I have big plans for her with hunting with year though.

Martin had big problems with her, and to be fair she did not get the kills she should have in her first season, which is the most important season for any hawk or falcon,

Mick

[Hawkmaster]

I only got 4 kills in the first season, but to be fair I only had 30 days and it rained 16 of them.

Last season we battled to find rabbits but managed 20 and 6 pheasants and a duck.

Her issues at the minute are, she is dead scared of the hood, cars and large livestock.

She does have some real good points though, one I find most amuzing is she will go for a pheasant in the woods, miss and sit and wait, while walking to her if I am pushing up more, she ignores them. As you can imagine I thought she was really rubbish after that, but discovered to my amazement, she would slip again only once on the first. So now I have a Gos that does not make me run miles.

Not ideal, not normal, but different and I quite like that trait.

[Goldie]

Goshawks have now laid three eggs :D and every thing is going well. I don't think she even notices the fact I keep stealing one :( there appears to be a strong bond between this pair judging by the amount of copulation that is going on, you just don't realise how oftenthey are at it unless you have the cctv.

[Goldie]

Goshawks have now layed four eggs, so hopfully if things go according to plan she may lay a fifth 8)

[Hawkmaster]

Mine has now start bending over but not chooping me if that is the right thing to say? Anyway she is a lot more friendly now and sort of calling me over.

[M & J Raptors]

Mine has now start bending over but not chooping me if that is the right thing to say? Anyway she is a lot more friendly now and sort of calling me over.

paul

will she let you near her ? what she like with your hands,

[Goldie]

Beware the female that calls you over, It happened to me 30yrs ago and she's still here :lol: :lol:

[Hawkmaster]

will she let you near her ? what she like with your hands,
Hi Mick,

This morning she allowed me in the mews and was rather accepting of my hands behind her although I still had a glove on the left.

She dropped her head and called in a kek kek kek fashion, her tail was up rather high and I took my bare hand and lifted it, she looked like she was pecking at the shelf. Of course she swung around and nailed my gloved hand shortly after.

[Goldie]

The female layed her fifth egg last night, so hopefully the exercise of puling will be worthwile. I have just returned the other three to her and she got sraight back onto the nest.
Question :?: has anyone had experience of their birds incubating 5 and was it successful. This female has incubated 3 twice and a 4 where one failed to hatch. My HH only 4s and so to the falcons. Obviously game birds etc incubate bundles but thats natural, I'm just wondering if gosses are capable of covering more than 4 effectively as its not a normal sized clutch.

[Goldie]

Well guys the long wait is over and hatching time has arrived.
checked the cctv this morning and by the body language of the female I knew an egg had probably hatched, but it was an hour before she moved her fat ass to show that not one but two white fluffy gosses had entered the world so here's hoping that there are more to come :drinkers:

[M & J Raptors]

Well guys the long wait is over and hatching time has arrived.
checked the cctv this morning and by the body language of the female I knew an egg had probably hatched, but it was an hour before she moved her fat ass to show that not one but two white fluffy gosses had entered the world so here's hoping that there are more to come :drinkers:

Well Done Goldie

Just watch they do not disappear :(

[Goldie]

[quote="Billy CasperWell Done Goldie

Just watch they do not disappear :([/quote]

Yeah Billy I know what you are saying and although there are no guarantees, both these birds have reared before with no problems although this is the first time they have been paired together.

Jim

[Goldie]

Third chick hatched this morning. Just have to wait and see if either of the other two hatch. would be a big bonus :lol:

[Finnish]

Well done mate keep us informed. :wink:

[Goldie]

Will do Finnish, I hope its not the end of the thread :lol: :lol:

[Goldie]

Well guy's egg number 4 has hatched as well so a right result. Not to hopeful of the fifth at this late stage but I will gladly settle for the 4.
If only the male wasn't so helpful, he wants to feed and shelter the chicks at every opportunity. The female has got to physically remove him at times :lol:

[Hawkmaster]

Guys I gave up on my female ages ago, But now she is still building a nest and being verbal with me? She did go off the boil but seems to have started up again and the coverts are out quite a bit too?

Any ideas what the hell is going on with her?

[Ben C]

Sorry goldie, but my girlfriend has asked me to ask you if we can have some pictures of these little fluffy darlings soon??

[Goldie]

Well guys as you will have gathered, egg #5 has failed to hatch but I reckon 4 out of 5 is a result

HM, Sounds as though its an imprint thing but I'm sure Mick will give a better opinion as I believe he knows the bird, never had an imprint gos in a breeding set up so can't help much I'm afraid.

BenC, Will see what i can do, will be going in to ring them on Mon or tues and will get some pics then.

[M & J Raptors]

Guys I gave up on my female ages ago, But now she is still building a nest and being verbal with me? She did go off the boil but seems to have started up again and the coverts are out quite a bit too?

Any ideas what the hell is going on with her?

I would say it just her hormones playing her up, you know what women are like, i do not think she will lay now, and if she does the semen has dried up,
try putting some eggs under her, and let her sit if she does, try a chick to see if she will rear, it will make her for next year,

Mick

[BrianM]

Well guys as you will have gathered, egg #5 has failed to hatch but I reckon 4 out of 5 is a result

HM, Sounds as though its an imprint thing but I'm sure Mick will give a better opinion as I believe he knows the bird, never had an imprint gos in a breeding set up so can't help much I'm afraid.

BenC, Will see what i can do, will be going in to ring them on Mon or tues and will get some pics then.

id love to order one from you goldie but i dont have number of game to keep it happy :cry:

[Hawkmaster]

OK, egg in the nest, let see?

[Finnish]

So how are tho's little ones coming on. :wink:

[Goldie]

So how are tho's little ones coming on. :wink:


They are doing well. The oldest is 10 days old now. went in to ring them and managed to get a pic as requested by BenC. Will try and post it.

[Jastreb]

Niceeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Ben C]

Youv'e done it now mate........................she wants one:) :) And I quote, "look at that silly pile of chicks, with their big heads and dinosaur faces....arrgh...aren't THEY CUTE" Can we have one ppppppllllleeeaaase!!!!!

:) :) :) :)

[Adam Barrett]

ben mate- just ask her to pay for it and you will train it for her 8)

[Gaz]

PM me or Finnish and get your order in then dude :finga:

[Goldie]

Youv'e done it now mate........................she wants one:) :) And I quote, "look at that silly pile of chicks, with their big heads and dinosaur faces....arrgh...aren't THEY CUTE" Can we have one ppppppllllleeeaaase!!!!!

:) :) :) :)

Now don't get carried away ben :lol: but if you really want a nice PR Gos, It just so happens I will be in your neck of the woods the first week in August when it will be 10wks :wink:

[Goldie]

Forgot to mention that egg #5 which didn't hatch was in fact "dead in shell". I reckon it was less than a week from hatching.
It wasn't one of the ones i originaly pulled and begs the question as to wether it is feasable to expect a goss to sit 5 eggs naturally ??

Anyone got an opinion?

[Finnish]

I no some one who has had 2 pairs this year lay six eggs each and hatch six eggs so it can be done.

[Ben C]

NOT A CHANCE........She reads this as well you ******s, :mrgreen: :mrgreen: so don't go getting ideas into her PRETTY, LOVELY, GORGEOUS and INTELLIGENT head.
:) :) :) :) :) :)

[Goldie]

so don't go getting ideas into her PRETTY, LOVELY, GORGEOUS and INTELLIGENT head.
:) :) :) :) :) :)

Don't forget the flowers, chocolates, and brekkie in bed for the next week :lol:

[Ben C]

yup......thanks for reminding her!!!!! :) :)

[Loopy]

Maybe this would be a good time to remind Ben that he didn't buy me a birthday present! :yawinkle:

[Goldie]

Maybe this would be a good time to remind Ben that he didn't buy me a birthday present! :yawinkle:

Well he can make up for it now and buy you a little fluffy thing.

NO don't even go there :lol: you know what i meant :wink:

[M & J Raptors]

Forgot to mention that egg #5 which didn't hatch was in fact "dead in shell". I reckon it was less than a week from hatching.
It wasn't one of the ones i originaly pulled and begs the question as to wether it is feasable to expect a goss to sit 5 eggs naturally ??

Anyone got an opinion?

Goldie

You have done very well indeed, and we don't hatch them all every year,
5 eggs should not be a problem but there could be many reasons why the chick was DIS,

but has soon has the Dollar comings rolling in :lol: then all is forgot,


good luck with the chicks.


cheers


Mick

[Goldie]

[
Goldie

You have done very well indeed, and we don't hatch them all every year,
5 eggs should not be a problem but there could be many reasons why the chick was DIS,

but has soon has the Dollar comings rolling in :lol: then all is forgot,


good luck with the chicks.


cheers


Mick


Cheers Mick, yes I'm well pleased to have got 4 out and i certainly wont lose any sleep over the fifth one although i had been monitoring them on the cctv and it did appear that 1 of the eggs in the latter stages didn't appear to be getting turned or rolled as freely as the others. Wether this was down to perhaps nestling in a little hollow or stuck between 2 twigs i don't know but it was situated at the end of the standard position formed by the natural 4 shape. Didn't make that very clear but I know you will understand what i mean :lol:
All said and done, i would rather an infertile egg than a DIS cos thats a real bummer

Jim