What is the BEST way to pack on weight?

[Hawkmaster]

A Gyr/Saker with very little muscle and a huge sharp breast bone, that can't be flown, as he looses to much weight, needs to stack on weight as fast as possible.

He also has been checked and medicated for worms and other internal parasites, but still only gains 1/4 oz if he is luck on 2 whole skinned quails.

Any ideas?

[Falconer]

If i wanted to put weight on my Harris i used shin of beef
she loved it and put weight on quickly

[The Late Lord Lucan]

Try Pigeon, they are a bit richer than quail.
Also try Moorhen (very rich), Rat, Mice, Gerbil, Hamster.

Moorhen generally send the birds weight through the roof.
If your feeding birds, pluck them first, and if your feeding rodents, then skin them first, that will help avoid the bird filling up with fur or feathers unnecessarily.

As you know, (I'll say it anyway because there are some that wont), when your bird get's very sharp, it will need a lot more food to keep it's weight steady. If the bird is flown, this will increase the intake even more.
If you are concerned, consult your vet.
If you are concerned but know what you are doing, try adding a little glucose to the food. If you are VERY concerned, crop tube with the special Hills cat food that you can get from the vet.

Regards,
Lucky.

[Falconry Equipment International]

are they freshly killed or previously frozen quail? If the latter try and get hold of the foremer, let him have as much blood as he wants, no casting, breast & vital organs. where atrre you keeping him? is he warm? try and restrict movement ie bating & winnowing outside as of course this uses up energy? if all else fails hood him most of the time whilst in your precense to keep him quiet.
hope this helps
J

[Hawkmaster]

He is inside or in a giant hood to restrict him. He just seems to have a huge metabolism. Even at top weight he would need 8 full DOC just to stay level, but that had to be fed in 2 goes as he would not get it all in.

[The Late Lord Lucan]

Even at top weight he would need 8 full DOC just to stay level,

Thats one seriously high metabolism.
Providing the vet gives the all clear, then it just sounds like your going to have to step up to a food with a higher calorific value.
My peregrine when flown hard can eat as much as she likes of fresh killed partridge, and that just manages to keep her level.
A friend of mine had a female Harris, even when flown hard, if you gave her a piece of rabbit (very low value food) the size of a golf ball, she was overweight the next day!
Just like humans, they're all different!

Regards,
LLL.

[Falconry Equipment International]

Very wise advice from LLL, however my vet advised me against giving pigeon of any sort to Gyr hybrids re sussptability to herpes virus & avian TB
J

[The Late Lord Lucan]

my vet advised me against giving pigeon of any sort to Gyr hybrids re sussptability to herpes virus & avian TB

You have a wise vet J.
Neil Forbes will also recommend the same.

I have always fed all of my birds with pigeon. The guy who supplied my peregrine has fed his on pigeon for ten years or more with no problems, EVER.
Sure there is a small risk.
I am personally prepared to take that risk. However, all of the pigeons I use are 'countryside' pigeons. I also know where they are getting there food from. I will not feed my bird pigeons from towns.
Wild pigeons are very hard for a bird to catch, therefore there must be a good reason why a lot of them take them when the opportunity arises.
In certain areas, they are the preferred item on the peregrines menu, even when other easier prey species are available.
I know many people that feed their bird pigeons. I and they, are aware of the risks, I choose to take that risk.......if others don't, I totally understand and respect that.

Regards,
LLL.

[Falconry Equipment International]

Hi LLL
sounds like we use the same vet!
I am pleased you have added what you have as I actually feed my falcons pigeon and take this risk, I just felt that when giving advice and what I had been advised by someone eminently more qualified than me I had to pass nthis on. One last thing if you can get steel shot pigeon go for that to reduce the risk of lead poisoning
J

[The Late Lord Lucan]

One last thing if you can get steel shot pigeon go for that to reduce the risk of lead poisoning

Mine are generally trapped and then broken necked pigeons, otherwise they are air-rifle head shot only jobs.

Regards,
LLL.

[Shaun Byrne]

I had a Harris like this once Paul. The only thing that would keep him at a steady weight for hunting was a mix of duck, moorhen and mice.

[Hawkmaster]

Looks like my Male Finnish needs to pack it on too!

[Tim Laycock]

Freshly killed pigeon, moorhen, coot even duck.

Pigeon is probably the most easy resource to tap, not in town centres though ;) ;) ;) :lol:

[Tasha55403]

I would go with duck, fed several times a day (waiting for the crop to be put over of course). Or maybe hare-I know jackrabbit is very rich red meat similar to duck, but I'm not sure if your hares are the same or if they're readily available. Duck is rich without the same risks as pigeon (I think) and fed several times a day you can feed more than just in one go. That's what got me in trouble with the sharpie back in August. I could feed her as much as she wanted in one go and she'd be ready the next day. But I fed her several smaller crops throughout the day while manning her at Game Fair for two days. There wasn't much difference after the first day, but there was a huge jump in weight after the second day. It took over a week to get her weight back down to hunting weight:roll: :oops:

[North East Harris Hawker]

[quote=The Late Lord Lucan;159196]Also try Moorhen (very rich),
Moorhen generally send the birds weight through the roof.

this man knows what he is talking about!:supz:
it also seems to take an eternity to get this weight off too!

[Turumti]

Nothing like fresh pigeon and sparrow to nurse a sick bird to good health. The way I do it is to pluck and thn dismember h piegon after slaughtering it, and then I wash it in cold tap water to remove the congealed blood and whatever specks of dirt might be left on the skin. I next remove all the bones, and then wet the meat some more and feed the whole lot including the heart and liver to the bird. I take care not to remove the skin or the fat between the skin and the flesh, as these are the sources much goodness.

As for the sparrows, one just needs to pluck them and disembowel them. If you want to pack on some ounces really fast on your bird, then slaughter about two dozen sparrows and feed just the breasts to your bird.

This is the regimen that we here in Pakistan often follow for weak and malnourished hawks.

[MattSpar]

So, is your hawk sick, or just greedy with a fast metabolism?

If the latter, I'd be delighted. Give me a greedy hawk any day.

Try feeding meat with a good layer of fat on it. FAT pheasant for example.

Fat needn't be anathema to falconers. In your case, it'll probably do the trick.

If you're feeding quail, try to get hold of some ex-layers. They carry much more fat than younger birds.

[As The Falcon Her Bells]

First of all, that does not sound 100% good.
I would make absolute sure you have not overlooked anything on the vet aspects.
Certain things like pasteurella and mycoplasma will not turn up on a mute sample easely and you have to ask the lab to specifically check for it.
What womer did you use, for how long and was the bird checked again after treatment?
Is it turning the crop over normally and is the mute looking good?
Second, do not forget water. Most birds dont die from starvation but from dehydration, probably good to wet the food just before feeding.

[Berkut]

I remember a guy local to me was handed a weak passage gos and it would not put on much weight.He was trying to train it at the same time.He said it would not respond and he was only feeding it 2 chicks per day.I took the bird and was horrified when it weighed in at 1lb 1oz. I kept it in a darkened box in a warm garage and fed it on hare (no casting ).It was given an ounce at a time about 12 times per day.It put on weight and hunted at 1lb 8 1/2 ounces before being hacked back to the wild. That method really worked well for increasing the weight though.

[Misty]

First of all, that does not sound 100% good.
I would make absolute sure you have not overlooked anything on the vet aspects.
Certain things like pasteurella and mycoplasma will not turn up on a mute sample easely and you have to ask the lab to specifically check for it.
What womer did you use, for how long and was the bird checked again after treatment?
Is it turning the crop over normally and is the mute looking good?
Second, do not forget water. Most birds dont die from starvation but from dehydration, probably good to wet the food just before feeding.

this is excellent advice. Something that always works for me whatever the problem with the bird, is 'potent brew' from Bird Care Co. I always keep some in the fridge and it has proved itself time and time again.

[HawkNorth]

He is inside or in a giant hood to restrict him. He just seems to have a huge metabolism. Even at top weight he would need 8 full DOC just to stay level, but that had to be fed in 2 goes as he would not get it all in.

If he has been taken to low this will be the case needing double the amount in food to keep him there. So top quality food is needed,what about giving liver heart kidney and as you say skinned quail .Fresh rat and mice would be the job if you can get them

[RabbitHawker]

I would advise the bird has a proper workup at the vets. Sakers should thrive on a lean diet, so something is badly wrong. I would worry about coccidia ar liver problems. You may well find duck too rich for a lean bird like this.
Chris

[Nemesis]

hi do you knowe eney one that can suply you with deer high in protein feed rabbit with it for roughage soon put on weight/dave

[Grey_Squirrel_Hawker]

venison perhaps, if you can get it? its very rich and heavy. im told it packs the weight onto most things.

[Gozzhawk]

Sorry if this seems a bit dim, first post said he has been checked for all INTERNAL parasites , I assume the vet looked for EXTERNAL too , even in hollow shaft of feather??
I would reckon something is amiss , hope not .

[PrinceOfTheWesternDesert]

pigeons can be kept reasonably disease free, i have a flock of about 100 pigeons, if i see anything that remotley resembles a sick bird,i treat the water with a 3 way medicine that works excellent, kills coccidiosis and frounce fast,i used the medicine twice in the past year, and havent seen a sick bird since,,
they multply so fast, that i killed and froze about 200 birds last year, i gave them to a breeder, who uses alot of pigeons.
i believe he doesnt feed the intestines,, and i remove the heads,,, i dont often feed pigeons to my falcons , but i certainly would, if i didnt have other ,more preferable foods, readily available.
if times get lean, ill be feeding pigeons,,

[HawkMom]

Gyrs and Sakers are not regular pigeon eaters (in the wild), so they are more prone to contract Avian Herpes (fatal, not treatable) and Frounce.

I feed my older, high metabolism birds, turkey drumsticks. High in fat, inexpensive and keeps weight on. I also use it on cold nights for all of the birds. I mix it with quail.

Since these two species also eat rodents in the wild.
I know that some of the fatty meat mammals (groundhog, muskrat, nutria, beaver) seem to help out the birds too. The falconers in Louisiana swear by nutria for their birds. I've never fed any of these meats, (never had access) but it sounds like a good idea.