View Full Version : Road to Bakersfield!
Bored,so just been watching some old films!Joe Roy flying his falcons,it looks very much like he lets his falcons fly high and wide,anywhere,anyhow!!!!Then it seems he just waits for any duck to break water,at any distance for his falcons to cut down???Would,nt he be better off just studying wild falcons?I,m not saying he aint a good falconer but is this style of game hawking/ranging common in the states?
CanadaManada
08-08-2008, 02:35 PM
I am just about to p*** in my pants laughing here.
You cannot be serious, are you?
I'd been warned about "I command thee" falconry on here and those who espouse it.
So what if his bird flies wide? It kills, with some flair, does it not? And that's probably wha the wants, anyway.
Have you or any of your birds been featured in a famous hawking film, Dean?
Justin
I am just about to p*** in my pants laughing here.
You cannot be serious, are you?
I'd been warned about "I command thee" falconry on here and those who espouse it.
So what if his bird flies wide? It kills, with some flair, does it not? And that's probably wha the wants, anyway.
Have you or any of your birds been featured in a famous hawking film, Dean?
Justin
I didnt say its not what he wants,I asked is this style of range hawking common in the states!As for killing with flair,it kills and thats that!!!Could you explain"I command thee" compared to "I do not command thee"falconry????Nobody is knocking this style,an awful lot of displayers fly like this over here!!!
Tony123ABC
08-08-2008, 03:10 PM
Ya know, I watched those films too. And I thought his falcons were very nice, very nice indeed. But then I admit, I am not a falcon guy. My litlle girl watched as well. She liked the way he shook his hair in the wind. I think she thought he was hunky. It is funny, we all see the same film and walk away with different opinions. Personally, I love the Redtails. some of the best soar hawking I ever saw. tony
CanadaManada
08-08-2008, 03:13 PM
Dean,
I read it as though you were knocking it, what with you saying he may as well watch wild peregrines and all.
"I command thee falconry" is practiced by those who like training birds alot more than they like falconry. They like cutting weight off a bird and they like it buzzing around directly overhead/nearby or not at all. Sorry if I read you wrong, Dean, and I do read alot into things, but you came off as that sort.
I did that "I command thee" stuff with my 1st bird because I didn't know better and there was nobody to see it to tell me any better. She caught stuff and she came back as soon as I called but now I know that 1100g+ fat birds don't need to be down to 800g for any reason. Never again.
Now I'm a "just get the thing killing and get it back" type of guy. The other parts tend to fall into place on their own. I don't care if the bird goes to the next time zone as long as it comes back far enough for me to see the kill and I also don't care what anyone else thinks of my falconry.
Justin
GyrXPeales
08-08-2008, 03:29 PM
Dean, high and wide is preferred for most duck flights in open country. Don't think that it's uncontrolled because it isn't. I like to see a bird kick out 1/2 mile or a bit further then head back at height on it's own or with a wave of the glove.
This will accomplish several things, for a seasoned bird it allows for more challenging slips. Open country duck slips with a bird straight up don't present much of a challenge for a seasoned bird. A flush with a bird 1/2 mile out at least makes it a bit more interesting.
For a young bird, especially one with Gyr in it that ranges too far it allows you to burn them and let them see the error of their ways. They figure out pretty quick that they need to be at least a little closer if they are going to kill consistently.
High and wide also allows you to hunt bigger water. A flush on a large pond or small lake with a bird straight up would be pointless. The ducks would clear land, spot the falcon and turn back to the water. High and wide will put more ground between the duck and the water and give the falcon a better chance to bring one to bag.
High and wide also allows for a cleaner easier approach and flush. Remember there aren't many trees to screen a bird as it initially mounts. High and wide allows the bird to kick out, mount and take pitch at a distance and then fly back over at height. Simply time the flush to the position of the falcon and you can make the slips more or less difficult as you choose for the individual bird.
Take that same bird flying grouse and you're gonna want them very high and straight up. The birds learn the difference in those scenarios pretty quickly and will usually fly accordingly as long as you make them to duck first. Making them to upland first will usually get you a bird that is high and straight up no matter what.
I hope that made sense.:wink:
ATB,
Jeff
I,m definately not knocking the style at all,should imagine the falcon is watching proceedings around the falconer,do these birds however take on flights that are beyond the norm regarding distance??They seem to be given an awful lot of scope regarding self hunting,can this be a problem???Over here,display birds such as lanners,luggars,sakers used to be flown in a very similar fashion,almost all lurebound,I am just trying to imagine the chaos had these been hunting falcons!!!It is almost bordering the un-control-able,as with watching wild falcons!!!Extreme falconry,if you like!
CloakDaggerTiercel
08-08-2008, 08:20 PM
Bored,so just been watching some old films!Joe Roy flying his falcons,it looks very much like he lets his falcons fly high and wide,anywhere,anyhow!!!!Then it seems he just waits for any duck to break water,at any distance for his falcons to cut down???Would,nt he be better off just studying wild falcons?I,m not saying he aint a good falconer but is this style of game hawking/ranging common in the states?
Hi Dean,
Its all subjective of course but I like how his falcons fly. They might fly high and wide but they definitely seem to be in control.
Very proficient and spectacular duckhawks. You can just see it in the wingbeat and the deadly hits.
If I could watch wild falcons hunting ducks all day I wouldn't to fly one. But I can't so I do!
I like to see a trained falcon fly as near to a wild one as it can get while still being under control.
I personally don't like to see birds that are patently not in any condition at all spinning in tight circles over their masters head like a starving cuckoo. It looks awful and is a akin to watching a tiger pacing around in a zoo cage.
I realise that plenty of people fly in tight countryside or in ares with alot of check and then more control is needed but in open country its nice to watch a falcon fly like it was born too.
I enjoy the redtail section on that film too.
Nick
Hi Dean,
Its all subjective of course but I like how his falcons fly. They might fly high and wide but they definitely seem to be in control.
Very proficient and spectacular duckhawks. You can just see it in the wingbeat and the deadly hits.
If I could watch wild falcons hunting ducks all day I wouldn't to fly one. But I can't so I do!
I like to see a trained falcon fly as near to a wild one as it can get while still being under control.
I personally don't like to see birds that are patently not in any condition at all spinning in tight circles over their masters head like a starving cuckoo. It looks awful and is a akin to watching a tiger pacing around in a zoo cage.
I realise that plenty of people fly in tight countryside or in ares with alot of check and then more control is needed but in open country its nice to watch a falcon fly like it was born too.
I enjoy the redtail section on that film too.
Nick
It is flying on the edge Nick!!!!But the hunting is not controlled,the bird will obviously return if game does not produce,but is akin to a gos self hunting!!!!Spectacular though too watch I must admit,if you have bins of course!!!
FalconMistress
08-08-2008, 08:37 PM
I have to say i have never seen this film, but the behaviour sounds normal particularly if the guy has a lot of wide open space!!!
Bored,so just been watching some old films!Joe Roy flying his falcons,it looks very much like he lets his falcons fly high and wide,anywhere,anyhow!!!!Then it seems he just waits for any duck to break water,at any distance for his falcons to cut down???Would,nt he be better off just studying wild falcons?I,m not saying he aint a good falconer but is this style of game hawking/ranging common in the states?
Dean
His falcons are trained on pigeons and his book,I believe every duck hawker should a have copy:)
Tezz
Ya know, I watched those films too. And I thought his falcons were very nice, very nice indeed. But then I admit, I am not a falcon guy. My litlle girl watched as well. She liked the way he shook his hair in the wind. I think she thought he was hunky. It is funny, we all see the same film and walk away with different opinions. Personally, I love the Redtails. some of the best soar hawking I ever saw. tony
Mate stick to your Redtails and don't comment on what you don't understand.
Tezz
Dean,
I read it as though you were knocking it, what with you saying he may as well watch wild peregrines and all.
"I command thee falconry" is practiced by those who like training birds alot more than they like falconry. They like cutting weight off a bird and they like it buzzing around directly overhead/nearby or not at all. Sorry if I read you wrong, Dean, and I do read alot into things, but you came off as that sort.
I did that "I command thee" stuff with my 1st bird because I didn't know better and there was nobody to see it to tell me any better. She caught stuff and she came back as soon as I called but now I know that 1100g+ fat birds don't need to be down to 800g for any reason. Never again.
Now I'm a "just get the thing killing and get it back" type of guy. The other parts tend to fall into place on their own. I don't care if the bird goes to the next time zone as long as it comes back far enough for me to see the kill and I also don't care what anyone else thinks of my falconry.
Justin
Good post
Tezz
CloudBase1664
08-08-2008, 10:06 PM
Dean, high and wide is preferred for most duck flights in open country. Don't think that it's uncontrolled because it isn't. I like to see a bird kick out 1/2 mile or a bit further then head back at height on it's own or with a wave of the glove.
This will accomplish several things, for a seasoned bird it allows for more challenging slips. Open country duck slips with a bird straight up don't present much of a challenge for a seasoned bird. A flush with a bird 1/2 mile out at least makes it a bit more interesting.
For a young bird, especially one with Gyr in it that ranges too far it allows you to burn them and let them see the error of their ways. They figure out pretty quick that they need to be at least a little closer if they are going to kill consistently.
High and wide also allows you to hunt bigger water. A flush on a large pond or small lake with a bird straight up would be pointless. The ducks would clear land, spot the falcon and turn back to the water. High and wide will put more ground between the duck and the water and give the falcon a better chance to bring one to bag.
High and wide also allows for a cleaner easier approach and flush. Remember there aren't many trees to screen a bird as it initially mounts. High and wide allows the bird to kick out, mount and take pitch at a distance and then fly back over at height. Simply time the flush to the position of the falcon and you can make the slips more or less difficult as you choose for the individual bird.
Take that same bird flying grouse and you're gonna want them very high and straight up. The birds learn the difference in those scenarios pretty quickly and will usually fly accordingly as long as you make them to duck first. Making them to upland first will usually get you a bird that is high and straight up no matter what.
I hope that made sense.:wink:
ATB,
Jeff
It made sense to me and is what I would aim for if I had the same conditions .Very good post !!
Cheers Dave
Dean, high and wide is preferred for most duck flights in open country. Don't think that it's uncontrolled because it isn't. I like to see a bird kick out 1/2 mile or a bit further then head back at height on it's own or with a wave of the glove.
This will accomplish several things, for a seasoned bird it allows for more challenging slips. Open country duck slips with a bird straight up don't present much of a challenge for a seasoned bird. A flush with a bird 1/2 mile out at least makes it a bit more interesting.
For a young bird, especially one with Gyr in it that ranges too far it allows you to burn them and let them see the error of their ways. They figure out pretty quick that they need to be at least a little closer if they are going to kill consistently.
High and wide also allows you to hunt bigger water. A flush on a large pond or small lake with a bird straight up would be pointless. The ducks would clear land, spot the falcon and turn back to the water. High and wide will put more ground between the duck and the water and give the falcon a better chance to bring one to bag.
High and wide also allows for a cleaner easier approach and flush. Remember there aren't many trees to screen a bird as it initially mounts. High and wide allows the bird to kick out, mount and take pitch at a distance and then fly back over at height. Simply time the flush to the position of the falcon and you can make the slips more or less difficult as you choose for the individual bird.
Take that same bird flying grouse and you're gonna want them very high and straight up. The birds learn the difference in those scenarios pretty quickly and will usually fly accordingly as long as you make them to duck first. Making them to upland first will usually get you a bird that is high and straight up no matter what.
I hope that made sense.:wink:
ATB,
Jeff
Very good post.
Tezz
Judd Casper
09-08-2008, 10:23 AM
Bored,so just been watching some old films!Joe Roy flying his falcons,it looks very much like he lets his falcons fly high and wide,anywhere,anyhow!!!!Then it seems he just waits for any duck to break water,at any distance for his falcons to cut down???Would,nt he be better off just studying wild falcons?I,m not saying he aint a good falconer but is this style of game hawking/ranging common in the states?Dean i have a piece of ground kind of similar to what this guy fly's on and my falcon on this ground doesn't mount in her normal fashion. On the open flooded ground she covers a lot of sky and i don't mind her using this style on there, its as near to seeing a wild falcon fly as it gets for me we can have several stoops before she makes a kill and the mix of duck makes it all the more special, but she only uses this style on this ground, if i put her up over rape or stubble she circles tight and upwards and I much prefer it on this type of ground as it keeps the quarry under pressure more so than a real wide ranger would,and with pheasants that's a bonus as they can slip off in the blink of an eye.
Sam
:twisted:On the rare occasion that I have attempted grouse with my falcons(I have bagged two)I was understandably worried about their conversion to open moorland!They did roam and stay lowish surveying the new territory,but,on the waving of the glove and a few blasts they did come overhead in position for a flush!Maybe I am flying too controlled and should let them roam a tad more,but it just does,nt seem feasable??I once flew a dark gyr/peregrine tiercel,he ate up a lot of sky due to successfully killing several mallard that had flushed prematurely,he would wait off and set his position some distance from the pools,I did use him this way,for he had chosen this method!!!I was forever retrieving him from the airfield with his mallard that borders some of my land,planes coming and going!!:roll:Like I say,I would like to witness this waiting off style,but not with my falcons!:twisted:
On the open flooded ground she covers a lot of sky and i don't mind her using this style on there, its as near to seeing a wild falcon fly as it gets for me we can have several stoops
Sam
Hi Sam,
Did you train her to remount or has it come with her experience?
what height would she remount to?
If I had ground like that for ducks that's where I would be mate.
Tezz
Judd Casper
09-08-2008, 03:12 PM
Hi Sam,
Did you train her to remount or has it come with her experience?
what height would she remount to?
If I had ground like that for ducks that's where I would be mate.
TezzHi Tezz i didn't teach her to remount and she doesn't do it on other game only ducks and that is my doing as i don't reflush game that has got away into cover.I suppose its because ducks are visable when they put back into water and the falcon spots them on the suface and climbs up for another attack,I have had her kill ducks at this place from over 1000ft -200ft but most of the time between 5-700ft and she gets a right old work out as did my tiercel before her and now her daughter is learning how to get above and control huge swirling masses of ducks but compared to her mother she is a novice on this ground.I have known her to go higher after two or three stoops than on her first but it depends on a lot of variables mostly weight and time of day.You will have to get yourself over this season and see what you think.
Sam
Hi Tezz i didn't teach her to remount and she doesn't do it on other game only ducks and that is my doing as i don't reflush game that has got away into cover.I suppose its because ducks are visable when they put back into water and the falcon spots them on the suface and climbs up for another attack,I have had her kill ducks at this place from over 1000ft -200ft but most of the time between 5-700ft and she gets a right old work out as did my tiercel before her and now her daughter is learning how to get above and control huge swirling masses of ducks but compared to her mother she is a novice on this ground.I have known her to go higher after two or three stoops than on her first but it depends on a lot of variables mostly weight and time of day.You will have to get yourself over this season and see what you think.
Sam
If that's an invite I will be there.
Cheers Tezz:supz:
Tony123ABC
09-08-2008, 03:41 PM
Tezz, my friend, it's an open board, so me thinks me comments are okay. The post, mine anyhow, was re: the video. It has some of the best soar hawking I have ever seen. And if ya read my prior posts re: ferruges you would know, I do know and love soar hawks. Falcons, not the best there mate, still learning about flying the falcons. Now, if ya are good at what ya do and ya are willing to help out and old fart who after 32 years of non stop hawkin decided to give longwings a try, look up my thread re: my gyr/saker and if ya see some areas you can assist, give me some info please. But as for staying away from this thread, or any I fell like commenting on, so sorry, won't happen. Take it easy and if ya decide to help me out, thanks in advance, tony
Judd Casper
09-08-2008, 05:14 PM
If that's an invite I will be there.
Cheers Tezz:supz:Tezz I'll confirm a date when my team are up and running they are not on lotions and potions to get them moulted out quickly so it will be sometime in late October.
Sam
Tezz, my friend, it's an open board, so me thinks me comments are okay. The post, mine anyhow, was re: the video. It has some of the best soar hawking I have ever seen. And if ya read my prior posts re: ferruges you would know, I do know and love soar hawks. Falcons, not the best there mate, still learning about flying the falcons. Now, if ya are good at what ya do and ya are willing to help out and old fart who after 32 years of non stop hawkin decided to give longwings a try, look up my thread re: my gyr/saker and if ya see some areas you can assist, give me some info please. But as for staying away from this thread, or any I fell like commenting on, so sorry, won't happen. Take it easy and if ya decide to help me out, thanks in advance, tony
Howdy Tony
As I have explained in my private message and apologised to you this was totally out of my character. Regarding your thread gry/saker, sorry haven't read yet.
If you haven't already got one get yourself a kite:lol:
Tezz
Tezz I'll confirm a date when my team are up and running they are not on lotions and potions to get them moulted out quickly so it will be sometime in late October.
Sam
Thanks again Sam.
Tezz
Tony123ABC
09-08-2008, 07:30 PM
Tezz, your a good man in my book. tony
TiercelJim
09-08-2008, 08:35 PM
Hi Tezz i didn't teach her to remount and she doesn't do it on other game only ducks and that is my doing as i don't reflush game that has got away into cover.I suppose its because ducks are visable when they put back into water and the falcon spots them on the suface and climbs up for another attack,I have had her kill ducks at this place from over 1000ft -200ft but most of the time between 5-700ft and she gets a right old work out as did my tiercel before her and now her daughter is learning how to get above and control huge swirling masses of ducks but compared to her mother she is a novice on this ground.I have known her to go higher after two or three stoops than on her first but it depends on a lot of variables mostly weight and time of day.You will have to get yourself over this season and see what you think.
Sam
After seeing shadow take ducks in this fashion it made a mark on me,she new exactly what she was on with and how todeal with the set up.awsum stuff.
I tried it with my tiercel on big waters something he'd never done before,he took great pitches and was very choosy in what he went for always waiting for something to clear the drink before commiting,I found i had little controll and on these larger waters found the ducks difficult to get them over firm ground,it was awsum to spectate as close to watching a wild bird as possable and had some stunning flights but with the leghth of time it normally took for a duck to line itself up a few times ending up with a unaweres woodyfloating under him:roll:.
jim
Judd Casper
10-08-2008, 11:26 AM
After seeing shadow take ducks in this fashion it made a mark on me,she new exactly what she was on with and how todeal with the set up.awsum stuff.
I tried it with my tiercel on big waters something he'd never done before,he took great pitches and was very choosy in what he went for always waiting for something to clear the drink before commiting,I found i had little controll and on these larger waters found the ducks difficult to get them over firm ground,it was awsum to spectate as close to watching a wild bird as possable and had some stunning flights but with the leghth of time it normally took for a duck to line itself up a few times ending up with a unaweres woodyfloating under him:roll:.
jimHi Jim everything just fell into place on that day for both of us like it sometimes can.You started the ball rolling with jimbob taking a cracking grey,and Shadow done a bit of showing off on her patch at Marston she's killed a lot of wigeon but that was a first taking one out from that high up it made a long lasting impression on me as flights go.
Sam
You are all in agreement then that Joe Roys falcons are excellent in this film,they fly high and wide and take duck in great style!:supz:
Judd Casper
11-08-2008, 02:09 PM
You are all in agreement then that Joe Roys falcons are excellent in this film,they fly high and wide and take duck in great style!:supz:Dean i liked the headshot on the pintail and have seen his hawks in various pigeon derby's....how well he would do over here with his team trained on pigeons is debatable i would say that would all depend on where he was flying...... If he were to come out with me i know he would be busier with his receiver than picking his hawks up on dead ducks..but its a different continent and they get away with using pigeons without any hassle.I would have liked to see his hawks on the dvd flown on something else other than duck to see how they mounted and used the sky on a different quarry but on the beach hawking ducks they looked just fine to me.
Sam
Dean i liked the headshot on the pintail and have seen his hawks in various pigeon derby's....how well he would do over here with his team trained on pigeons is debatable i would say that would all depend on where he was flying...... If he were to come out with me i know he would be busier with his receiver than picking his hawks up on dead ducks..but its a different continent and they get away with using pigeons without any hassle.I would have liked to see his hawks on the dvd flown on something else other than duck to see how they mounted and used the sky on a different quarry but on the beach hawking ducks they looked just fine to me.
Sam
thanx sam!
Bannacheck
16-04-2009, 11:34 AM
Guys,
I saw a few clips of the "Road to Bakersfield" on a mates laptop, but can't find it anywhere in the UK. Does anybody know who stocks it please.
Trebor
16-04-2009, 12:04 PM
I have been out with some great Birds in America ,all the birds I have been out with fly high and come down with style.
You get some Falconers that know how long it takes for there bird to reach it's pitch, they don't even look up they can time it on a stop watch, others are more casual .
I think what's best for one Falconer and Falcon might not suit others,it's not right or wrong if your way works it's right for you.
Cheers
Rob
I think Joe just enjoys that style of flight the same way that Nick does. Joe knows what he's doing and like all good falconers knows each of his birds. I was talking to Joe just before he flew a tiercel Peregrine at the 2006 Sky Trials in Sacramento. He told me to watch his bird and see how it managed to follow the pigeon as it was blind in one eye. He asked me to keep quiet about it being blind as he had not told many people about it. It was the only bird to catch the pigeon that year. Mind you to be honest that was only because it flew into the window of a parked car in an attempt to escape!
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