Sattelite telemetry coming to M-J hoods

[GriffMJ]

Hi All

I am in disussions with a US manufacturer at the moment who use the system on wildlife procjects, M-J Hoods will be the sole outlet in the UK for this system for falconry (confirmation to come).

The main difference, compared to other telemetry, is real time GPS data is being transmitted to receiver and being downloaded to a notebook computer real time. You literally can watch the Falcons fly around on a topo map.

One receiver can track 99 transmitters at the same time.

The system obtains GPS data and transmits it real time to the receiver. No e-mail, satellite time or any form of other charges. During distance testing of*the system it was able to pick up the GPS data from 15 to 20km away.*

It is a simple system to use, you*put the transmitter on the falcon (back pack mounted). Tune the receiver to the modules frequency and look for the GPS data to appear every 15 seconds.

This is high end of the market telemetry...... but true REAL TIME GPS data!

I will be updating this thread as and when I get more relevant info. Please let me know if you are interested in the system .....so i can relay some feedback info to their marketing team :)

VHF Transmitter £110
GPS Transmitter £500
GPS with VHF Receiver £1600

http://www.m-jhoods.co.uk/images/GPS/GPSTrans.jpg

[Finnish]

Sonds good Grifff. :wink:

[BrianM]

i was very intrested till i got to the part where it says it would cost £2100 for the system ,,,,, my wife would cut my nuggets off

[GriffMJ]

lol...i can supply a mig welder for that repair on your nuggets Brian

[Falconry Equipment International]

Yeah brian so would mine! :oops: Griff any pics?

[Finnish]

Yes but Brian if you lost a 2000 gos and got your bird back with sytem you be laughing then mate. :)

[Shaun Byrne]

Sounds good but I cant see that it gives me much more than my Biotrack system. I have tracked birds over 10 miles and pinpointed them without any trouble at all and for a quarter of the cost. I dont like backpack mounts either, so I guess that counts me out. lol!!

[BrianM]

yeah fin but its the female brain were are dealing with here ,,

[Finnish]

:lol: :lol:

[Falconry Equipment International]

hey brian know where you coming from there(unlike the missus)

[Falconry Equipment International]

thanks for the pic Griff, how do you chnage the batteries,also would there be software to track this on your laptop& if so would you be running both pc & mac software?

[GriffMJ]

Hi J

I am just confirming all the finer details...remember that I am dealing with their Marketing ppl at the moment....they are not Falconers.... so i am asking all the relevant falconry questions.

I think you have to buy GPS software for your laptop as seperate item at the moment..... early days yet with them...so bare with me :)

[Falconry Equipment International]

Ok thanks Griff

[Varmint]

I use a back pack system for a HH cause he had his centre decks pulled out with tail mount tranny, chasing a bunny thru a fence!

Works great but i cant see my falcons sitting still so patiently whilst i put it on, also cant see them flying naturally wearing it?

I would hope that i was wrong, but just couldnt waste the amount of time getting them used to it as i would hunting with them?

Now hacking babies is a very different matter! fantastic sytem for the purpose and lets face it, several pricey hacked birds at risk might justify the cost? so maybe there is your first market of buyers Griff!

In another couple of years time technology will have made it within reasonable realms of all falconers budgets!

[GriffMJ]

Hi Varmint

Well...the more purchased ...the more the price comes down... I am told by their marketing team!

This system is obviously out of the reach of most falconers at the moment...but the pro breeders and falconers may find this useful as you describe Varmint.... wild hacking expensive eyeass's. Remember that one receiver can track 99 falcons at the same time (not that a breeder would have that many out at once :) )

The back pack system is already demonstarted in the marshal system and as I understand it the Marshal transmitter is kept on for the whole season.

i am putting forward many questions to them at the moment and if you want to ask a specific questin then please state them here and i will put it forward to them on your behalf :)

[Kevin Massey]

Griff,

there are a few different systems like this on the market, Ive even seen one that they use to track swallows(only problem it is,nt real time).

there are quite a lot that supplies this type of system, just to help you with this topic,
are the manufacturers of the ones developing it anymore for the falconry market?,
what life can be expected from the power pack?
weights?
and what support will you be giving to customers in the UK.
cheers
Kev

[GriffMJ]

Thanks Kev

Thats exactly the type of feed back and questions that I am after..... I will come back to you with their response as soon as.

[OutFlying]

Varmint wrote -I use a back pack system for a HH cause he had his centre decks pulled out with tail mount tranny, chasing a bunny thru a fence!

Works great but i cant see my falcons sitting still so patiently whilst i put it on, also cant see them flying naturally wearing it?

I would hope that i was wrong, but just couldnt waste the amount of time getting them used to it as i would hunting with them?

I've seen a barbary tiercel fly with one all season without any noticeable effects, mounted as per Marshalls web site. Why can't you see a falcon flying naturally wearing it ? It seems many people are now trying it and I will myself when the season arrives.

Outflying.

[GriffMJ]

Hi All

Keep in mind that this sytem is used on falcons in the wild for research purposes..... therefore the system must allow the falcon to carry out all of its daily routine (including hunting) without hinderance.

[Shaun Byrne]

Hi All

Keep in mind that this sytem is used on falcons in the wild for research purposes..... therefore the system must allow the falcon to carry out all of its daily routine (including hunting) without hinderance.

The only thing is Griff, this type of system is normally made completely sealed, to be used once, for a long period, after which it is sent back to a workshop for servicing or just discarded. Not very practical for falconers at £500 ish each.

[GriffMJ]

Hi

yes .... the batteries are replaceable....I am just waiting to find out how they are replaced :) as the pics that I have been sent are not showing me how..as soon as i get demo pics... i will post them up on the thread.

[Shaun Byrne]

Cheers Griff.

[Coedhirion]

It also looks a bit big and cumbersome for smaller birds. A picture taken with a known size item beside it would help. (clothes peg, 50p coin etc) the other question has already been asked..how heavy is it. How long do batteries last, etc.

[Hawkmaster]

Here is one but unfortunately it weighed 155gr.

The one Ash and I are working on should be about 85gr, with a bit of luck.

[Coedhirion]

so what range will it work at. Do we get satalites over Wales?? Satalite TV can be as dodgy as off a transmitter around here :lol: My M8 down in the valeey can't get TV in any form!! Still not sure of the back pack idea. Its bad enough getting deck feathers pulled when the bird hits thick cover or fences, but things on or around the neck area .... plus what dose it do to the aerodynamics (cant spell) still looks awful big to hide in the feathers !!

[Varmint]

Well good luck to all of you virgin back packers! have fun and learn i will be very interested in your comments at the end of your first season, i have a couple with back packs mounted in diff ways and maintain that i dont really like flying falcons wearing them, neither do my birds if truth be told, but this is just my own opinion but judging by the amount of effort they make to get them off, i would say that they werent too impressed.

im all for progress and the system sounds great if it is real time and the transmitter were smaller but lets not lose sight of the fact of what were trying to achieve here?

This is to be an aid to us and not a hinderance to the bird, the current size and you could paint it luminouse green and need not bother with a reciever, you could see it from 5 miles away! :lol:

[Falconry Equipment International]

Hey Varmint, put some flashing LEDs on there as well and you'd be able to do the same in the dark :lol: :lol:

[Varmint]

:lol: :lol: :lol:

[OutFlying]

Varmint, I've had a look at the updated Marshalls web site and read the comments on the mounting arrangement by Harry McElroy flying both falcons and an harris in difficult cover conditions, also falcons flown in the sky trials - they don't seem to be having problems. From the two I saw this year and after speaking to a few others, no one seems to have observed their falcons flight style differ. Maybe you didn't have a good fit on your birds, what material did you use for the harness and also what did you use for the transmitter to mount to ?

Outflying

[Falconry Equipment International]

Outflying have you experience yourself in using back packs? when on marshalls website did you see the new drelene sp? mount that is a single piece apart from the teflon ribbon . did you also see the fittingb instructions? I am interested in possibloy using this this year but would like more feedback
thanks
SJ

[GriffMJ]

Hi All

Sorry I should have mentioned this before........ the weight of the GPS trasmitter is 45g.

[Falconry Equipment International]

thats heavy!!!! any plans to make it smaller/lighter???

[OutFlying]

SJ, A friend use the Teflon ribbon (Garlands supplied) with leather as the back pack on a Barbary tiercel, no problems all season. He tried it on his Barbary falcon but didn't get the fit right and she removed in the mews after a couple of days - refitted correctly without further problems.
These were fitted according to the original method described on the web site , i.e the ribbon was stitched at the front not crimped as in the new method. Spoke to someone else who flew peregrines with this method of backpack, no problems - he also used the mounting method described but use a small brass crimp to secure the ribbon.
I will be using the Teflon ribbon with the new delrin plate on a male perlin this coming season, will keep you informed.
One thing I will say is that the birds I've personally seen fly with the pack needed to be cast to get the required initial fitting.
Outflying.

[Falconry Equipment International]

Hi Outflying, whilst I hate anything that may hinder the hawks I really like the look of this, as at the moment i at present neck mount them & have doen for the last 8 yrs without incident, but never the less it does worry me.

[OutFlying]

SJ, if you looked at every incident possible - you wouldn't ever fly a hawk/falcon again. Birds have been lost to everything that is possible. What you do is to try and minimise the risks, I don't feel that back backing is a greater risk to my bird than any other method of mounting.

[Falconry Equipment International]

I quite agree outflying

[Hawkmaster]

I first used the backpack method on a spar in 1999, since I have used it on a couple of HHs, a RT and numerous falcons, all without incident.

I hood and then try to fit it and some do allow you to with gentle handling, the rest have to be cast.

I personally think $45 for the Delrin kit from Marshall is over the top, but it will not be long before someone copies it here in the UK, IN FACT I may just do something similar, up until now I have use plastic and leather, I like the leather, but it does take a pouinding if the hawk does not like like, plastic wears well.

I know there are at least 9 people that are going to try it this year, as I have supplied them with the telfon ribbon.

[OutFlying]

Hawkmaster,
What width of ribbon did you supply and at what cost per metre ? At $45 I don't think it too bad considering it will stay on the bird for quite a few seasons, it comes ready made and just requires fitting.
Outflying

[Hawkmaster]

You need 20 inches or so per bird, about 500mm. Up until now I have not sold it and can't remember how much I paid as it was so long ago.

So I am open to offeres.

[OutFlying]

what width is it and approx cost - don't want to insult you -what do you want per metre ?

[Hawkmaster]

Sorry mate, 8mm wide, which I know sounds wide but it is not, as it must act as a strap and support the pack, not as a cheese wire.

There are pictures on the forum, somewhere, when I did a Gyr/Saker for tame hack.

Really not sure and do not want to start getting into tons of orders I can't fulfill, as I am not sure if I can find more.

[OutFlying]

no problem, if you don't ask you don't get :lol:

[Morb]

Marshal Telemetry has a ready made backpack harness for sale on their website. I'm considering getting one.

Ron

[Falconry Equipment International]

Hi Ron , so am I , really like the idea! do you know MW in AL as he I beleive helped develop it

[Morb]

Hi Jay
I don't know him but I know who he is. Yes he was instrumental in the developing of the harness. here is a link from Marshals website showing how to install one.

http://www.marshallradio.com/falconry/fnews/fnews_backpackharness-1.asp#backpack?p=Installation

Ron

[Falconry Equipment International]

Yup, thanks Ron, not sure if I like using drugs but everything else looks pretty good to me!

[Morb]

Ya I'm not so sure about the doping either.

[Hawkmaster]

Never used drugs to fit and it is not necessary, I fit the backpack on my own or with a bit of help from the wife. 8)

[Falconry Equipment International]

sounds fgood to mke ( she has srong but gentle fingers<VVBG>) :rolleyes:

[GriffMJ]

Hi All

I have a reply to some of the questions raised in the thread: -

Hi Griff,

I have a few English coins left from my last visit to the motherland. I will put one beside one of the GPS systems and e-mail it to you within a few days.

I have answers for the questions below:

1) I am not sure I understand the first question but I will take a crack at it... We manufacture tracking systems for mice to elephants and every thing in between. We do not specialize in any market, if it has a pulse we track it.

2) One of our options is a high capacity lithium polymer rechargeable battery, good for 300 plus recharges.

3) We can work a deal where you have a few in stock and can do exchanges for warranty ones.

4) A typical system weighs 50 grams (half a small rat).( Those of us in the wildlife industry have some pretty warped ways of expressing size and weight so it can be understood by our customers in 33 different countries).

5) If you opt for the rechargeable unit, these units can be turned on and off with a magnet and will run for many days continuous on a single charge. The length of time depends on how much the falcon is out in the open. If it is in the open (like they normally are) we can get a GPS fix in 7 seconds. If it is in a dense tree we may have to stay on for 30 seconds. The time between recharges varies greatly from falcon to falcon. At >300 recharges a module will last 5 to 10 years.

6) I will send some pictures next week with size references.

The rule of thumb in the ornithology world for research transmitters cannot exceed 3% of body weight for smaller birds and 4% for medium birds (Falcons) and 5% for big birds. Our transmitters average 50 grams.

Cheers!
John

These are the questions I asked:

Are the manufacturers of the ones developing it anymore for the falconry market?
What life can be expected from the power pack?
Weights?
What support will you be giving to customers in the UK.


The only thing is Griff, this type of system is normally made completely sealed, to be used once, for a long period, after which it is sent back to a workshop for servicing or just discarded. Not very practical for falconers at £500 ish each.


· It also looks a bit big and cumbersome for smaller birds. A picture taken with a known size item beside it would help. (clothes peg, 50p coin etc) the other question has already been asked how heavy is it. How long do batteries last, etc.

[OutFlying]

50 grams that's some weight to be carrying.

[Hawkmaster]

Jim I tested 85gr and it is no problem for most birds.

[OutFlying]

What size of birds ?

[Hawkmaster]

Smallest 1 lbs 11ish

[GriffMJ]

Well I think 45g on a 1lb raptor sounds ok....according to the body weight rule.

[Hawkmaster]

True I agree.

So what will the kit cost, roughly that a person must buy to use this system?

[GriffMJ]

Its looking like £2000 at the moment Paul, I think Varmint hit the nail on the head with the market for it ..... he suggested top breeders with wild hacked falcons.... seeing as you need one receiver for up to 99 falcons.

I think if your flying a falcon(s) worth more than £3k then its a serious consideration!

[Hawkmaster]

Yip my system was going to be the same kind of money.

[Goldie]

50g on the back of my eagle? christ his bells weigh more than that!
:lol: :lol:

[GriffMJ]

lol....u definatley want this system Goldie!!

For Eagle owners... then this must be a system to consider!?

[Goldie]

Griff, I don't need telemetry, I use the husband wife system:- if you don't like what yuou get at home you can **** off and don't come back :lol:
been doing it for years and never lost her yet :lol: :lol:

[GriffMJ]

lmao :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I have the same system....with my Whippet....****in thing!

[OutFlying]

Well I think 45g on a 1lb raptor sounds ok....according to the body weight rule.

Griff, that's nearly 2 ounces on a 14 ounce bird - doesn't sound right to me.