What is the HIGHEST flying Longwing you have seen?

[Hawkmaster]

Or even know of, is it male is it female, in short is there a constant that will prove itself time after time like the Skytrials records for instance?

[Lanner_Man]

i was at a local falconry centre (black mountains falconry) run by roger james, he was telling me his female gyr/saker would go up to 3000 feet then come down and hit the hell out of pheasent

cheers
luke

[OutFlying]

********

[BrianM]

********
dont sugar coat it out flying , just say what you mean :shock: :D :D

[Goldie]

********--is that the same as bull**** :lol:

[OutFlying]

3000 feet to catch a pheasant in the stoop, what distance would the pheasant have to travel to meet the falcon ? How is this distance measured ?

[Gaz]

By the time the bird got there the pheasant would have raised a family :!: load of ****

[OutFlying]

it would have forgot what it was stooping at 8)

[Hawkmaster]

Well I have a solution to all these guested heights. We are working on a widget now to tell us what the bird just flew. Interested?

[Lanner_Man]

i think he recorded the hight as the falcon went above the clouds, therefore they contacted the weather people (who ever they might be?) and they told him the hight of the clouds. but thinking about it they would have recorded it from sea level so i don't know how high above sea level he actually was, (it was up a mountain in wales, so could have been pretty high so maybe it wasn't as high as first anticipated, still a bit farfetched?

[Jack Merlin]

I have been fortunate enough to go hawking with Geoffrey Pollard a number of times. Geoff was a prodigy of Ronald Stevens and used to fly passage peregrines exclusively. He has hawked grouse in Caithness for 36 seasons.

I remember one flight when a passage falcon was put up over a point but the grouse could not be found. I was delegated to watch the falcon. After some minutes of hunting with every dog off the lead, I lost sight of her as she went up and up. At about the same time, a covey was a flushed.

Those grouse seemed to fly forever until I heard the rushing sound of air through bells and the falcon came down amongst them. That was in the days before telemetry, too!! Fantastic! The picture memory has remained with me for over 20 years.

I saw a similar thing two years ago. Same falconer, same locality, this time flying a captive bred gyr-peregrine tiercel. Again, this was a perfectly clear day with brilliant sunshine. The falcon went up and up until I could no longer see him. Don't know how high that was -- but it was damned high!

I don't believe such flights are possible unless on perfect ground. Anyone who has been to Caithness will know that it is dead flat for miles.

[OutFlying]

Well I have a solution to all these guested heights. We are working on a widget now to tell us what the bird just flew. Interested?

Hawkmaster have you thought of changing your name to Professor Pat Pending :lol: You've more gadgets on the go than SONY.

[Falconry Equipment International]

Highest flight I saw NOT engineered by me at all, more by my GSP( recently departed) losing her point when the hawk was already at about 1500' The hawk continued making pitch, and even on a grey overcast day she was specking out/ going into cloud but the time the GSP went back on point. When I was sure it was a true point I waited no longer and aclled the flush a cover of redleg, yes redlegs ahd held for her to point( incidentally this is also the only time we managed to point and flush redlegs on caommand) from the point of the flush ( initially I lost her when she started her stoop she was so small) but when I caught sight of her I counted 1001,1002 etc and she taile dout of teh stoop at '1026'( supposedly falcons stoop at 100' prer second ) which would have made her at something over 2,500' I somehow doubt htis height but it was an 'eye wrenching ' pitch and wh ethen of the flight was spoil;t as I had to rack her down wher she ewas proudly pluming her cock redleg over a mile from the flush point and 2 small valleys away :yawinkle:

[Hawkmaster]

I really hate having to judge height, but that may be because I am so rubbish at it.

When I go fly in a friends light aircraft and we are at 2000 feet i will tell you now there is no way I would be able to see abird from the ground as people are barely visable, so a bird in the air is just a no go'er.

I once flew over Phil in a field and could not see the dogs but just made him out.

The most enjoyable bird I have owned was a Pere/Barabary x Saker called Saxon and he would sky out, mill about and stoop down upto 8 times a day, all just for the lure. Almost better than the stoops on quarry as it was stress free.

[Falconry Equipment International]

I really hate having to judge height, but that may be because I am so rubbish at it.

When I go fly in a friends light aircraft and we are at 2000 feet i will tell you now there is no way I would be able to see abird from the ground as people are barely visable, so a bird in the air is just a no go'er.

I once flew over Phil in a field and could not see the dogs but just made him out.


Ok BUT you are looking with the ground as aback drop not the sky. I have in the past witnessed seriously long call offs with a falcon to the lure form another falconer's fist on a 9000' run way. although we could only use about 2/3rds that as the runway drops away about 20 ' the other 3000. still that's 6000' . Interesting ly I could not make out falconer or vehicle, but once falcon was in the air I could see it fine & that must have been from best part of 5000'???

[Falconry Equipment International]

What have others experienced?????

[Wightwings]

How do you judge............mmmmmm NO idea......you hear peeps say "she went up to 500 ft today" how do you know.......believe me human distance perception without landmarks and points of reference is bobbins.

its the old fisherman's tail situation...........it was THIS big....

[Isaac]

I saw a passage praire falcon in Utah take a teal from (what everyone said was,) a 2000 foot pitch. Only the people with the binoculars at the time could see the bird so whether it was 2000 feet or not, it was beyond normal range of vision. Sure came in fast though!

[Hawkmaster]

What about the way they work it out in the Sky Trials, anyone know about that?

[Athene]

In one of the meetings here, in Leon, there is a machine to measure it accurately. Every year several birds fly over 1000 feet.

[Isaac]

I was at a skytrials once where they used some fancy triangulation system. I'm not much of a math person so I don't know exactly how it worked but they had two stations set up where they knew the exact distance between the two, the falcon was the point of the triangle and by measuring the angle that it was at from both of the stations and then plugging it in to some formula they were supposed to be pretty accurate at figuring pitch. I think the highest that year was 1200 feet. (Saker falcon)

[Varmint]

I think anyone can get a falcon to go high with right training and motivation, most methods are illegal in the UK though?

There is a hell of a difference betwen a falcon soaring and a falcon mounting hard over a point though? the land and prowess of the quarry will largley dictate the average pitch.

The most effective pitch on lowland game is about 150ft for most falcons and they rarely miss from that height. Stephen Franks Falcons catch more Grouse than most and rarely go above 200ft?

My old Pheasant Hawk "Alchemy" is in her 14th year this year and with age and experience her pitch alters to suite the game, on Grouse she goes high, on pheasant or low ground low, but she rarely misses esp from her lowest pitches, hense the pitch she sets herself!

I have a Gyr/Peregrine who will soar up out of sight on most dry days, and stay on the wing for up to an hour at a time? but to achieve this he has to be pudding fat and wouldnt stoop at anything at these weights, so it's horses for courses again!

all boils down to land and game and regular sorties as Jack so wiseley said!

[Falconry Equipment International]

I think anyone can get a falcon to go high with right training and motivation, most methods are illegal in the UK though?! really !!! tell us more. its that easy is it, then why isnt everyone flying a falcon at game instead of faffing around with owls, harrises etc????

There is a hell of a difference betwen a falcon soaring and a falcon mounting hard over a point though?
Yup would agree with you here. I remember about 10 years ago on a radio programme JPJ spouting off aboiut her best flight ever which was at a show in the summer, the lanner was covering the skies out of sight at times, ie on thermals and definately ofn the soar... says it all, nothing like a hard pumping pere working their way up through even downdrafts to make pitch as they have been conditioned by careful management of the falconer and then to stoop with a real sense of purpose & aggression
the land and prowess of the quarry will largley dictate the average pitch. & what about falconer orchestrating hthis & other factors to produce a high mounting lowland game hawk??????

The most effective pitch on lowland game is about 150ft for most falcons and they rarely miss from that height. Stephen Franks Falcons catch more Grouse than most and rarely go above 200ft?!
may be most effective, although I have seen many a falcon 'brushed' off a cock pheasant at that sort of pitch surely with correct hawk management as mentioned above you can produce , in time a deadly killer that will also prodiuce good pitches of between 500-1000' & devastating stoops to boote.
My old Pheasant Hawk "Alchemy" is in her 14th year this year and with age and experience her pitch alters to suite the game, on Grouse she goes high, on pheasant or low ground low, but she rarely misses esp from her lowest pitches, hense the pitch she sets herself!

I have a Gyr/Peregrine who will soar up out of sight on most dry days, and stay on the wing for up to an hour at a time? but to achieve this he has to be pudding fat and wouldnt stoop at anything at these weights, so it's horses for courses again!

all boils down to land and game and regular sorties as Jack so wiseley said!
looks like you may still have something to learn or do you know everything???( incidently you seem to be above responding to any of my previuos emails on other threads, even when they have been directed right at you???!!)

[OutFlying]

SJ, This season I'll be attempting my first real season at flying a long wing waiting on. Last season I had a few outing out with a friend, I appreciated the quality of the sport demonstrated. But without a decent pitch the spectacular visual aspects of waiting on wouldn't be to such a great effect. Most likely sub 300 foot pitches would be likely to result in a kill but not as special as the high pitches. I think Nick Fox also describes that super high pitches are not require but from a personel point of view I will try to produce as high a pitch as possible ( if I can,).

Outflying

ps These are not based on my experience personally flying a long wing - only seeing them fly and from reading various books. Maybe well off the mark and if i am would welcome further advice.

[Isaac]

Geez Screamin Jay, you and Varmit have some bad history or something? :shock:

[LeighJauncey]

Of course everything is relative and to that end I'll make a claim for a little jack merlin belonging to a friend who went up on a classic ringing flight after a lark. They both disappeared from sight quite quickly eventually the lark disappeared from the view of a pair of 8x21 binoculars and the merlin was a speck through them. When they finally came down the lark escaped and they ended up less than 100yds from where they started. Not only the highest but by far the best!

[Falconry Equipment International]

SJ, This season I'll be attempting my first real season at flying a long wing waiting on. Last season I had a few outing out with a friend, I appreciated the quality of the sport demonstrated. But without a decent pitch the spectacular visual aspects of waiting on wouldn't be to such a great effect. Most likely sub 300 foot pitches would be likely to result in a kill but not as special as the high pitches. I think Nick Fox also describes that super high pitches are not require but from a personel point of view I will try to produce as high a pitch as possible ( if I can,).

Outflying

ps These are not based on my experience personally flying a long wing - only seeing them fly and from reading various books. Maybe well off the mark and if i am would welcome further advice.
Hi Outflying
as you may have gathered I am obsessed with both pitch and how the hawk makes it! some of the lads in the SEFG have been the same (Van Vink. Strickfuss, Coleman etc etc) & obviously if you have been to the ffair and seen them doing their party trigks with kites( vinky has the kes) in the ring, you will know what I mean. Sometimes I wish I still had a Gos( had accipiters , all P/R for over 25 years) where I could go out, any weather almost & go hunting. The more thought, the more selective you are on flight management, when & where you will accept a flight the greater your chances of good success( on the few occasions you will see me at a field meet, you will probably see me refuse to put my hawk up & pass the flight on to the next 'sucker' if Ihave evealuated it to bee a por prospect, which includes hazards, both natural and manmade, terrain, quarry species ,all possibilities which way the flight is likely to go, whether the hawk will at least be able to make contact wityh nthe quarry betc etc . you will( unless you are really lucky) have to expect to put 2-3 seasons presuming you have a clear idea of what you want nand require from the hawk and also how you are going to get there. before you start getting decent results on a regular basis. Not trying tolecture here, this is just my thoughts.. good luck though! :rolleyes:

[Falconry Equipment International]

Geez Screamin Jay, you and Varmit have some bad history or something? :shock:
not to my knowledge, in fact I have told another lister to use him as a tutor etc as he had read his book! I also have refered someone else his way, it's just that he semms to be too high and mighty to stoop down to replying to me? also with this particular post I felt it important to put my points of view across as a lowland gamehawker. hope this ets the record straight.I have no bad feelings towards Ade/Varmint
SJ

[Falconry Equipment International]

Of course everything is relative and to that end I'll make a claim for a little jack merlin belonging to a friend who went up on a classic ringing flight after a lark. They both disappeared from sight quite quickly eventually the lark disappeared from the view of a pair of 8x21 binoculars and the merlin was a speck through them. When they finally came down the lark escaped and they ended up less than 100yds from where they started. Not only the highest but by far the best!
leigh you ;little devil :wink: with a few well chosen words, you have transported me back over 30 years :) to when I was teenager , experiencing very similar :rolleyes:

[Mary Quite Contrary]

[quote=Varmint]I think anyone can get a falcon to go high with right training and motivation, most methods are illegal in the UK though?! really !!! tell us more. its that easy is it, then why isnt everyone flying a falcon at game instead of faffing around with owls, harrises etc????


What do You mean Faffing around with Harrises etc ?
Beginners and experienced all fly Harrises so whats the crack with that comment?

I am always Faffing around with my harris, she waits on nicely and soars and will fly to a crow lure on a kite.


Regards
Faffie


[

[OutFlying]

SJ, This season I'll be attempting my first real season at flying a long wing waiting on. Last season I had a few outing out with a friend, I appreciated the quality of the sport demonstrated. But without a decent pitch the spectacular visual aspects of waiting on wouldn't be to such a great effect. Most likely sub 300 foot pitches would be likely to result in a kill but not as special as the high pitches. I think Nick Fox also describes that super high pitches are not require but from a personel point of view I will try to produce as high a pitch as possible ( if I can,).

Outflying

ps These are not based on my experience personally flying a long wing - only seeing them fly and from reading various books. Maybe well off the mark and if i am would welcome further advice.
Hi Outflying
as you may have gathered I am obsessed with both pitch and how the hawk makes it! some of the lads in the SEFG have been the same (Van Vink. Strickfuss, Coleman etc etc) & obviously if you have been to the ffair and seen them doing their party trigks with kites( vinky has the kes) in the ring, you will know what I mean. Sometimes I wish I still had a Gos( had accipiters , all P/R for over 25 years) where I could go out, any weather almost & go hunting. The more thought, the more selective you are on flight management, when & where you will accept a flight the greater your chances of good success( on the few occasions you will see me at a field meet, you will probably see me refuse to put my hawk up & pass the flight on to the next 'sucker' if Ihave evealuated it to bee a por prospect, which includes hazards, both natural and manmade, terrain, quarry species ,all possibilities which way the flight is likely to go, whether the hawk will at least be able to make contact wityh nthe quarry betc etc . you will( unless you are really lucky) have to expect to put 2-3 seasons presuming you have a clear idea of what you want nand require from the hawk and also how you are going to get there. before you start getting decent results on a regular basis. Not trying tolecture here, this is just my thoughts.. good luck though! :rolleyes:

No problem SJ,
I'm lucky to flying with someone with previous experience flying the style and at the game I'm wanting to fly. If I manage to pick it up to the same standard, I'll be alright.

[Falconry Equipment International]

Outflying
that will be such a help to you .glad to hear it. do I know him?
SJ ( by all means Pm me if you want)

[Hawkmaster]

How was that season Jim?

[MattSpar]

The highest flying falcon I ever saw was a tiercel of mine that, in fact, I didn't see. I used to allow him a lot of freedom as he was so reliable. On this occasion, I tracked him on the telemetry as he passed over my head in a clear blue, cloudless sky.

I didn't catch the slightest glimpse of him, even through binoculars.

Now that's high.

[Alf]

Seen a few good ringing flights would have loved to have seen that one. Alf

Of course everything is relative and to that end I'll make a claim for a little jack merlin belonging to a friend who went up on a classic ringing flight after a lark. They both disappeared from sight quite quickly eventually the lark disappeared from the view of a pair of 8x21 binoculars and the merlin was a speck through them. When they finally came down the lark escaped and they ended up less than 100yds from where they started. Not only the highest but by far the best!

[JanMan]

The highest flying falcon I ever saw was a tiercel of mine that, in fact, I didn't see. I used to allow him a lot of freedom as he was so reliable. On this occasion, I tracked him on the telemetry as he passed over my head in a clear blue, cloudless sky.

I didn't catch the slightest glimpse of him, even through binoculars.

Now that's high.

Turn your bins. round and look through the other end Matt.:yawinkle:

T

[Lady]

Turn your bins. round and look through the other end Matt.:yawinkle:

T

PMSL :supz: :lol:

[Natch]

i was at a local falconry centre (black mountains falconry) run by roger james, he was telling me his female gyr/saker would go up to 3000 feet then come down and hit the hell out of pheasent

cheers
lukethe man is talking out of is:butthead: ,,,,,,,,,,

[Mansars]

not sure about a falcon, but seen our buzzard speck out quite a few times, once even with the full legnth of camera lense she was barely visable.

although not the highest shes been this was a regular height.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovc-EK2k-fY

[MattSpar]

Turn your bins. round and look through the other end Matt.:yawinkle:

T

Oh my God.

Well I guess I walked into that one...

[Tim Laycock]

How was that season Jim?

Turned into two seasons with a finnish female :supz: :supz: :supz: :supz:

[MitchellBrad]

Oh my God.

Well I guess I walked into that one...

:D

Incidentally the few times that gyr of mine went to very high I missed everything. Even her until I could catch up with her.

Out of sight pitches are great when you can control everything. They really suck when you can't. I've seen birds so high you didn't dare take your eyes off them but the problem is your gonna fall into a hole or trip over something when your trying to flush. The majority of what we fly here is pheasants. If there's cover close to the flush often the pheasants are having coffee and schuffling a deck of cards by the time the falcon gets down.;-) They work great for ducks, huns and grouse. The best flush I've seen was on huns. When they were flushed I couldn't actually tell for a second or two if the falcon was stooping. About 1/4 mile away she plucked one out of the air. The odd thing about it was the huns were flying over a shelterbelt about 20 feet tall and acted if as if they didn't see her. strange but true. Actually I've seen that quite a bit from high pitches. Something seems to confuse the gamebird's depth perception.

Other times I've not seen squat so I had to watch the gamebirds to know if there was even a bird stooping. Most of the time the bird shows up but with that damned gyr there would often be nothing. Turn on the radio and find her eating something in the next field over. Once I was trying to get a pheasant flushed for her when it went up, nothing. I hollered at the guy I hawk with who was in the truck. He pointed in the direction she went. He could have least blown the horn when she went off.

I've heard anywhere from a 1,000 to 5,000 feet with these kind of pitches. They said it, not me. A friend says it best no matter what the pitch is, "Chicken kill'n height!" He's smarter than most, he never brags about nor mentions pitch.

Brad

[Amews]

Question

In a clear blue sky. At what height do they disappear from our view (with the naked eye)?

[Hawkmaster]

I know it is not 1134 foot as I have had a kite up at that height when a falcon took the lure and it was measure with my GPS attached to the kite.;)

[MitchellBrad]

Question

In a clear blue sky. At what height do they disappear from our view (with the naked eye)?

Who knows<G> Darker birds are easier to see vs birds in adult plumage. Those lighter birds are a real pain. Once I flushed when I couldn't see an adult peregrine. It was the sky conditions because when she got down my only thought was, "You got here in one heck of a hurry!":roll: Plus each person't eyes are probably a little different.

[MattSpar]

Question

In a clear blue sky. At what height do they disappear from our view (with the naked eye)?


Ah, now, I've actually carried out a rough and ready experiment on that with the help of a Lady (I was rough, but she was..... no, never mind).

We watched a pair of buzzards on the soar over my garden, till they disappeared from the view of 8X50 bins above us and I wondered how to go about finding out just how high they were. I hit upon thie following...

We made a cut-out the size and shape of a buzzard, stuck it on a pole on a hilltop and drove off, stopping now and then to see if it was still visible. I found I could just make it out at one mile (with my spectacles on. Without them I couldn't even see the hill.). Now, if I could see the cut out buzzard at one mile, in theory I could see it through the bins at eight miles - and I stress "in theory". One mile is 5280ft. Multiply that by eight and you get the astonishing number of, 42,240ft. Ok, so lets be ultra-conservative and halve everything. That still makes 21,120ft.

Everest is only 29,000ft.

[Lady]

Ah, now, I've actually carried out a rough and ready experiment on that with the help of a Lady (I was rough, but she was..... no, never mind).

We watched a pair of buzzards on the soar over my garden, till they disappeared from the view of 8X50 bins above us and I wondered how to go about finding out just how high they were. I hit upon thie following...

We made a cut-out the size and shape of a buzzard, stuck it on a pole on a hilltop and drove off, stopping now and then to see if it was still visible. I found I could just make it out at one mile (with my spectacles on. Without them I couldn't even see the hill.). Now, if I could see the cut out buzzard at one mile, in theory I could see it through the bins at eight miles - and I stress "in theory". One mile is 5280ft. Multiply that by eight and you get the astonishing number of, 42,240ft. Ok, so lets be ultra-conservative and halve everything. That still makes 21,120ft.

Everest is only 29,000ft.

You have far too much spare time. :lol:

[MattSpar]

You have far too much spare time. :lol:

Well my Dear, I'm open to suggestions (where the hell did I put my heart pills?).

[Hardcore Hawker]

Roger James is only 2ft 7" a pair of stepladders look high to him:D

[Finnish]

Or even know of, is it male is it female, in short is there a constant that will prove itself time after time like the Skytrials records for instance?


Gary Cook's (Natch) and Mark Bellmonty Gyr/Peregrine's both high mounters and almost go up every time..... Both top birds....

[StoopDoggyDogg]

Mine !!
He disappeared into clouds in light rain, (clipping) came down and bound to a partridge as the covey were going over a 60feet high tree line oblivious to my birds presence. I checked the cloud height on "XCWEATHER.CO.UK" and it was 1600feet.

I found that when my bird is really high you can see him only when you stand still, also when he folds into a stoop he vanishes and you have to wait for him to appear. This can cause problems because often you miss the stoop completely.

One day last season again in rain, i stopped to make sure my bird was in posistion just before flushing a covey, i couldn't see him and my mate rang my phone and said "i think he's checked" i went back to the car and got in due to the heavy rain and drove round for ten minutes tracking him, getting a weak signal, i then pointed the yagi upwards and realised he was up in the clouds, (maybe he goes above the clouds to get out of the rain :lol: ) i was now back near the set up, so i ran over and served - BINGO !!!

Both these flights were in relatively enclosed ground compaired to moors and lincoln etc. So it can be done, the partridge dont bail into the nearest cover when your bird is out of sight, so tight set ups can be flown. But if your bird is at a low pitch, they will bail out at the first opportunity and then the falconer thinks the land is too enclosed. The key is also not to cast your bird off anywhere near the covey, cast off a good disatnce away and only come into the field holding the quarry once your bird is at a good pitch.

I am surprised no one on this thread has mentioned Laser range finders?? i think they are accurate aimed at kites but no good for birds ?? unless maybe a reflective jacket could be put on the underside of a bird somehow?? ive never tried one but i asked a few of the top name manufacturers if they thought their products would do the job! they all said NO !!



Steve

[CloakDaggerTiercel]

[QUOTE=StoopDoggyDogg;628252]Mine !!
He disappeared into clouds in light rain, (clipping) came down and bound to a partridge as the covey were going over a 60feet high tree line oblivious to my birds presence. I checked the cloud height on "XCWEATHER.CO.UK" and it was 1600feet.

I found that when my bird is really high you can see him only when you stand still, also when he folds into a stoop he vanishes and you have to wait for him to appear. This can cause problems because often you miss the stoop completely.

One day last season again in rain, i stopped to make sure my bird was in posistion just before flushing a covey, i couldn't see him and my mate rang my phone and said "i think he's checked" i went back to the car and got in due to the heavy rain and drove round for ten minutes tracking him, getting a weak signal, i then pointed the yagi upwards and realised he was up in the clouds, (maybe he goes above the clouds to get out of the rain :lol: ) i was now back near the set up, so i ran over and served - BINGO !!!

Both these flights were in relatively enclosed ground compaired to moors and lincoln etc. So it can be done, the partridge dont bail into the nearest cover when your bird is out of sight, so tight set ups can be flown. But if your bird is at a low pitch, they will bail out at the first opportunity and then the falconer thinks the land is too enclosed. The key is also not to cast your bird off anywhere near the covey, cast off a good disatnce away and only come into the field holding the quarry once your bird is at a good pitch.

Hi Steve,
Saw loads of flights with my friends Gyr-peregrine male on his home ground where the fields are small to very small.
Most of the time the falcon was in the 1000-1500 range and the partridges would just clear out over the hedges and over the open fields as they weren't under pressure from the hawk. We saw plenty of wonderful one-stoop kills.

I think for pure pitch g-p males will never be beaten on average. They're the highest mounters Ive seen and have cleaned up in the USA skyTrials nearly every year they've been held, for good reason.My view is that they have the mentality of a tiercel peregrine towards mounting but a gyr wing beat to get them up there double quick.

[MusketMad]

3000 feet to catch a pheasant in the stoop, what distance would the pheasant have to travel to meet the falcon ? How is this distance measured ?ha ha ha you here some stories on here dont you mate:roll: i wouldnt want a falcon any higher than about 700 feet myself.....3000feet :rolleyes: how the ****** can you judge that from the ground anyway:lol:

[Finnish]

ha ha ha you here some stories on here dont you mate:roll: i wouldnt want a falcon any higher than about 700 feet myself.....3000feet :rolleyes: how the ****** can you judge that from the ground anyway:lol:


Agreed.....

[Hacker]

you could also be long sighted or short sighted!!!!!!:lol:

[TheBirdManis]

Its very amusing to here the banter about pitch.

I ballooned my female gyrsaker to 2500 feet. If you took your eye off her she would be lost in the sky. She is a large hybrid.

My sliver gp tiercel was invisable to the naked eye at 2500 ft.

At 5000 ft a falcon would be hard to spot even with binos.


Trevor

[Jiff]

if you do the maths, i'm sure that a falcon at 3500 feet would be hopeless at a grouse flying 150 yards and puting back into cover, a good falcon like a kestral should take a point and wait on about 30 foot up and hammer what ever gets up in an instant:lol:

[Brian Sullivan]

I have only seen (2) amazing falcons over a 40 year span that would go up out of sight no matter the conditions. One was a Gerkin (Brad is getting a grandson from this bird) 15 years ago and the other was a female Peregrine last year. You know they are high when you loose sight of them with 10 power binos and the only way to know they are still up there is with Telemetry. Both birds were trained the old school way of using bag game and not ballooned or Kited.

I am talking about power climbing and not soaring. These two birds seemed to have endless amounts of energy and top it off the Peregrine stooped like an old pro.

[MitchellBrad]

One was a Gerkin (Brad is getting a grandson from this bird) 15 years ago and the other was a female Peregrine last year. You know they are high when you loose sight of them with 10 power binos and the only way to know they are still up there is with Telemetry. Both birds were trained the old school way of using bag game and not ballooned or Kited.


I'm tickled to death. The last one I got from you was sure a cracker. I wouldn't know how to use a balloon or a kite nor do I want to learn. The old ways are good enough for me.

Brad

[Jack]

I like my tiercel to fly at abour 400 feet. He sometimes fly's much higher than that when he is not real ernest about hunting. In this area our power poles are right at 33 feet tall. If you stacked 12 of these rascals end to end straight up it would be way the heck up there. But it will only be 396 feet tall at best. Under 400 feet. That is 800 feet to most high flyers. My tiercel is still getting it together, but my old peregrine did the same and she fed lots of duck to the other birds in my mews. She was a duck hawk. 400 feet is all you really need. I hate seeing a falcon soaring about looking for thermals. Most will tell you that the falcon is actually waiting on, but the falcon does not even have a clue about waiting on. I like to see a falcon in a tight circle as it mounts over the point or pond of ducks. Focused and keyed upon what was happening directly below him. At that pitch he will achieve the same speeds as the falcon coming in from the horizon and he will not have to check his speed or pull off and miss in order to prevent himself being injured. He comes in with his full killing speed and accuracy. I am only impressed with a falcon that kills consistantly. That is falconry to me.

Jack

[OutHawkn]

Its very amusing to here the banter about pitch.

I ballooned my female gyrsaker to 2500 feet. If you took your eye off her she would be lost in the sky. She is a large hybrid.

My sliver gp tiercel was invisable to the naked eye at 2500 ft.

At 5000 ft a falcon would be hard to spot even with binos.


Trevor

Row ,row, row your duck...gently cross the pond

[NCorbgett]

i once trained a pere lanner to the kite' the kite would have 1100 feet of line but at the angle of the line this would mean that the kite was at a thousand feet.she would go up a thousand + every time.sometimes she would come down panting for her life other times she would be fine.in my opinion high flying falcons fly at different pitches on different days because of different air pressures. my other hobby is flying helicopters and i know the aircraft flies and handles differently in different air pressures,for example if the pressure was high one day the falcon would have to work much harder to gain a high pitch this was the proved when i noticed the falcon was panting one day when the air pressure was high,so spare a thought if your falcon flies at a lower pitch one day and check out the air pressure ,it almost becomes predictable.
ps sorry if i have bored anyone.

[SBFalconry]

i was at a local falconry centre (black mountains falconry) run by roger james, he was telling me his female gyr/saker would go up to 3000 feet then come down and hit the hell out of pheasent

cheers
luke

did it come down as a block of ice pmsl:lol:

[LongVVing]

I really hate having to judge height, but that may be because I am so rubbish at it.

When I go fly in a friends light aircraft and we are at 2000 feet i will tell you now there is no way I would be able to see abird from the ground as people are barely visable, so a bird in the air is just a no go'er.

I once flew over Phil in a field and could not see the dogs but just made him out.

The most enjoyable bird I have owned was a Pere/Barabary x Saker called Saxon and he would sky out, mill about and stoop down upto 8 times a day, all just for the lure. Almost better than the stoops on quarry as it was stress free.

Would you ever get the chance to jump out with a bird like in Ken franklin's film? I guess you are talking about how high a bird would ring up and pitch though rather than climbing in a plane.

Think his bird was chucked out at around 12000ft but obviously not to hunt any quarry.

Would be interested to hear your results of your widget experiments though.

Mark.

[Hawkmaster]

It is just a simple and crude litte device made from electronic parts that you download hieghts off later or I have since heard of one that flashes lights to incdicate its height.

I lost it on a kite unfortunately.

Look up rocket altimeters:wink:

[Brian Sullivan]

I once asked Frank Beebe what he thought about the height a falcon goes out of sight on a day with normal light condidtions. He told me he knew what that was. I asked him how he figured this out. He said on all his trips to collect wild falcons he would most of the time go by small aircraft. He would look down on seagulls flying just above the of the dark ocean water and then would ckeck the instruments on the plane to check for the when they dissapeared from view.

It amazed me how he had answer for most questions I asked.

[Siberia]

StoopDoggyDogg

Mine !!

Steve


Sorry Steve,but it is mine Saker ! She is a long wing,I saw it and the pilot said we are flying at 33 000 feet.

[Brian Sullivan]

Falconry is many things to different falconers. I enjoy trying to get the most out of a Falcon and want to keep pushing them to take a good pitch. I also want to see a kill when hunting. Many poeple will tell you that high pitches are no good for killing but that is not true. Sometimes we need to think like falcons when training and not think like humans. If the falcon goes so high that the quarry sees and feels no threat from the Falcons then it is going to fly in a more normal way. I have always enjoyed seeing a high flying ducks being killed by a falcon that has stooped from a high pitch. Most of the time the ducks go into a skyburst just before the falcon get to them. Other times the falcons picks out one duck that shows no sign of seeing the Falcons and is usually hit in the head. The duck will most of the times lock its wings and spin out of the sky!

I have a good friend who has perfected flying ducks on passage. He will spend the whole first year just training the falcon to take high pitches and then the second season will start introducing the falcon to only ducks that come into the small Valley where he trains. The falcon will start to make stoops at the ducks and will in time kill one from this high pitch. Once the kills start the show begins. His falcons will stay up there until they kill or just come and land at his feet before dark. He has done this even with a very large female Gyr x Peregrine. Watching this female bind to a mallard up 300 feet in the sky and watch her land near by is great Falconry. His flying field and the valley where it is located is very tight and small. Everything happens right above you.

[Brian Sullivan]

The height Frank Beebe said; The Seagull would go out of sight at 2200-2600 feet.

If anybody can see a falcon at 33,000 feet then they smoken something.:rolleyes:

[Siberia]

The height Frank Beebe said; The Seagull would go out of sight at 2200-2600 feet.

If anybody can see a falcon at 33,000 feet then they smoken something.:rolleyes:

Me,the Saker and the pilot were flying the same plane :)

[MitchellBrad]

I have a good friend who has perfected flying ducks on passage. He will spend the whole first year just training the falcon to take high pitches and then the second season will start introducing the falcon to only ducks that come into the small Valley where he trains. The falcon will start to make stoops at the ducks and will in time kill one from this high pitch. Once the kills start the show begins. His falcons will stay up there until they kill or just come and land at his feet before dark. He has done this even with a very large female Gyr x Peregrine. Watching this female bind to a mallard up 300 feet in the sky and watch her land near by is great Falconry. His flying field and the valley where it is located is very tight and small. Everything happens right above you.

Brian,

I started doing that with Lacey back in the late 90's. She only caught one or so her first year but did get some the second and third. She killed a lot off of ponds her first season. I found a hill where the ducks were streaming over during the migration. I'd put her up and lay on my back binocs in hand to watch. The first year she'd start for impossible ducks to catch, the second she'd always wait for them to get underneath her then stoop. These mallards simply ignored her unless she was chasing them. Only once or twice have I seen them get hit high. Usually the ducks would dip down the moment she stooped and head for the ground, I suppose to pick up speed. The Crip did catch one that way her first season but she figure 8'ed the duck, hitting it several times before it hit the ground. Most exciting way there is to catch a duck that I know of. There is a beaver dam near where I did that. Did you know a duck that hits the water from way up will skip like a little, flat stone?

Since the drought we've had little or no duck hawking here. My falcon Purdey's motto was "When in doubt go higher!" The only duck she ever caught was after I blew a perfectly good sharptail set up. The dog was on the injured reserve list that day. While walking back to the truck grumbling to myself I was thinking I might toss her a pigeon. Then I saw her cutting across the sky, get over what I mistook for 3 pigeons and went into a stoop knocking one out of the air. I thought that was wierd because she'd never flown pigeons that far off. When I got there she was eating a gadwall.

A friend of mine in Wisconsin is out of falconry now. He had a falcon that would simply go out of sight. He used to fly marshes with megga duck numbers. When ducks were streaming in and out he'd put her up. His biggest complaint was he often missed the flight. Sometimes he had to pull out his telemetry. Once the falcon was eating a mallard about a hundred yards behind him. Missed the whole thing.

Unless we get rain we won't have a single duck to fly around here.

Brad

[Mark Robb]

first a white gyr called danny on grouse this bird was hacked in USA
the 2nd male peregrine waited on for one hour and ten we flushed 5 grouse one after the other he hade the 5th
the 3rd sliped at a gull but checked at short eard owl lost site in the clouds ringing
and martin hargreavs speck did what it seaid on the tin
it is not what you asked but hay all intresting

[Hawkmaster]

Cheers Mark.

So guys what is the secret to these high mounting birds?

[Wingless]

Cheers Mark.

So guys what is the secret to these high mounting birds?

Red Bull :lol:

[Pete Kent]

The highest flying falcon I've ever seen belonged to a member of my club named Ron Digby (the artist). It was a tiercel Peregrine. Sadly he lost the bird on a field meet when our club celebrated its 25th year anniversary in Cambridge, the bird chased off after a partridge and the telemetry stopped sending a signal. It wasn't seen again.

[Brian Sullivan]

Thought I would revisit this thread as stories of great Game Hawks in the UK have been told lately. I would like to hear about that one special Falcon or two that was just over the top during your time with Falconry. I have only had the pleasure to know a couple that were clouds above the rest.

The next question; is how many of you believe this can be bred or retained in the lines of these exceptional Falcons?

Brian

[Ben Wallace]

I once asked Frank Beebe what he thought about the height a falcon goes out of sight on a day with normal light condidtions. He told me he knew what that was. I asked him how he figured this out. He said on all his trips to collect wild falcons he would most of the time go by small aircraft. He would look down on seagulls flying just above the of the dark ocean water and then would ckeck the instruments on the plane to check for the when they dissapeared from view.

It amazed me how he had answer for most questions I asked.

Awesome and true!!

[Hawkmaster]

Thought I would revisit this thread as stories of great Game Hawks in the UK have been told lately. I would like to hear about that one special Falcon or two that was just over the top during your time with Falconry. I have only had the pleasure to know a couple that were clouds above the rest.

The next question; is how many of you believe this can be bred or retained in the lines of these exceptional Falcons?

Brian
Hi there Brian,

I have not see a constant high flyer in the UK that performs to this standard every time, although in South Africa it was more likely achieved there but then I think like in the States there are many factors that make gamehawking not just more dangerous but more rewarding in the height department.

As far as breeding it into them is concerned, I would like to believe it but have to say that if one was to take say one of your finely selected line bred untrained birds and bring it over here with a UK hawking environment, I am not sure that the desired results will ensue:cry:

Of course there will be those that do, do it, but I feel the results will be the same as what are achieved now here with the current stock. Some are good, most are poor and occasionally there are crackers, all dependant on where in the country a person is located and your quarry availability:lol:

[Trebor]

I all ways count 1000 and 1 , 1000 2 , 1000 3. when the bird starts it's stoop, by the time you get to 6 or 7 most birds are down this tells me that birds go about 4 to 6 hundred feet which here in the uk on the flat ground for partridge is more than most falconers need.

I have heard more bull s..t about height from falconers than any other thing talked about.:supz:

[Hawkmaster]

I all ways count 1000 and 1 , 1000 2 , 1000 3. when the bird starts it's stoop, by the time you get to 6 or 7 most birds are down this tells me that birds go about 4 to 6 hundred feet which here in the uk on the flat ground for partridge is more than most falconers need.

I have heard more bull s..t about height from falconers than any other thing talked about.:supz:In theory six or seven seconds will more than likely be around 600 to 1000 foot:D

[Geoff59]

I really hate having to judge height, but that may be because I am so rubbish at it.

When I go fly in a friends light aircraft and we are at 2000 feet i will tell you now there is no way I would be able to see abird from the ground as people are barely visable, so a bird in the air is just a no go'er.

I once flew over Phil in a field and could not see the dogs but just made him out.

The most enjoyable bird I have owned was a Pere/Barabary x Saker called Saxon and he would sky out, mill about and stoop down upto 8 times a day, all just for the lure. Almost better than the stoops on quarry as it was stress free.

I used to fly back seat in a friends microlight at various altitudes and at 2000ft I could see gulls feeding on the football pitches quite easily,maybe you need spectacles Paul.:D

[Hawkmaster]

I used to fly back seat in a friends microlight at various altitudes and at 2000ft I could see gulls feeding on the football pitches quite easily,maybe you need spectacles Paul.:D
Maybe you want to do the same with a dark falcon on a grey sky and yes I agree I too have seen WHITE seagulls on green fields:wink:

[Red-Devil]

I used to fly back seat in a friends microlight at various altitudes and at 2000ft I could see gulls feeding on the football pitches quite easily,maybe you need spectacles Paul.:D
should of gone to specsavers paul lol :-D

[Geoff59]

should of gone to specsavers paul lol :-D

Too right.:lol::lol:

[Dean York]

I cant really comment on the highest falcon Ive seen go up. I know my m8 sends his up to a thousand foot to the kite when fitness training.(The line is measured out on the kite).
What I do know is this, like already been said really. The long wing men tel so many porkies about pitch etc its untrue.(thats not meant at all longwing men). Ive been out and watched falcons go up and asked the falconer how high is that? They give a reply like 700 foot. When in gods honesty its 350 foot. So Ive come to a conclusion. If someone says there falcon goes up to 1000 foot everytime. Then just half it and you wont be far off!!! Lol.:lol:. Atb Yorkie..

[Flash]

i saw gregg hutchings bird disapear on a completely blue sky not a cloud it was -14 on the ground and hardly a breeze i woulda crapped myself lol he didnt worry one bit we went in the woods and started thrashing around trieing to serve him and gregg realised the tiercel was heading for the ground (telemtry singnal getting stronger) we ran out of the woods to watch i didnt see a thing but we got in the car and headed in the signal direction got over a 1/4 of a mile away an there he was in the middle of a field with a verry dead mallard WOW

[Flash]

p.s when it comes to pitch i find it really difficult to tell

[Giant Panda]

Or even know of, is it male is it female, in short is there a constant that will prove itself time after time like the Skytrials records for instance?

Phil Myers Ginty-no contest

Jim

[Flash]

Or even know of, is it male is it female, in short is there a constant that will prove itself time after time like the Skytrials records for instance?


mine next season

i can dream lmao

[TLDWB]

My tiercel Gyr/Barb waits on above the site at great heights, sometimes I just use my receiver to check he's still above. Not sure of height but I can't see him sone days in a clear sky. He's never killed of site, had two or three falcons that have done the same. For him to kill he must be a he'll of a lot lower than this.;)

Tom

[SugezWolf]

Hi Folks - the highest-flying gamehawk I have ever seen was my breeding tiercel, 'Bubble'. He would regularly go up out of sight of my unaided vision when flying on my enclosed partridge ground and I would use telemetry to keep track of his position. Unfortunately he was never successful at pitches over 1200ft so these superhigh pitches of 1500ft plus weren't rewarded. I kite train & above 1500ft a tiercel is very hard to see with a falcon at 2000ft being similarly hard to pick-out. At Woodhall Spa in 2002 he went to around 2000ft (as estimated by the binocular-wielding field) but we couldn't serve him in time. In November 2003 he flew beyond binocular-range at an estimated 3000ft plus but wasn't interested in the ducks we were flushing. During both of these flights he pumped his wings constantly and there was no floating or soaring.

Gerry x

[Brian Sullivan]

In theory six or seven seconds will more than likely be around 600 to 1000 foot:D

This is very true and is a good rough estimate from what I have seen and witnessed. I have some recent video footage of Falcons as known heights and you can almost determine by the 1000-1 second count on their height. This is a rough equation, but gives some reference.

For sure some Falcons stoop way faster then others in the stoop and can take advantage of high pitches even in enclosed country. Some of my video also demonstrates this very clearly. I have found the females to be way faster then the lighter tiercels in the stoop. Back 20 years ago I used to fly my female Peregrine x Gyr. She would fly around 930-975 grams. The Peregrine side of her is Shaheen/Brookie. She could be well over 1000 feet when we flushed the Grey Partridge right under her. The Partridge would only get less then 50 yards before it was over. At the same time we were flying a couple of Tiercel Peales that were also good in their own right, but the Partridge were caught a long way out from the same heights.

Brian

[Brian Sullivan]

Hi Gary,

Has "Bubble" produced babies like himself in the flying department?

Brian


Hi Folks - the highest-flying gamehawk I have ever seen was my breeding tiercel, 'Bubble'. He would regularly go up out of sight of my unaided vision when flying on my enclosed partridge ground and I would use telemetry to keep track of his position. Unfortunately he was never successful at pitches over 1200ft so these superhigh pitches of 1500ft plus weren't rewarded. I kite train & above 1500ft a tiercel is very hard to see with a falcon at 2000ft being similarly hard to pick-out. At Woodhall Spa in 2002 he went to around 2000ft (as estimated by the binocular-wielding field) but we couldn't serve him in time. In November 2003 he flew beyond binocular-range at an estimated 3000ft plus but wasn't interested in the ducks we were flushing. During both of these flights he pumped his wings constantly and there was no floating or soaring.

Gerry x

[Brian Sullivan]

Some of this is very true as when I do not have my range finder along the pitch seems to be always expressed as a little higher. When I have the range finder out with the Falconer for the first time they are usually a little shocked to learn the real height of their Falcon. The best ones for really knowing pitch height are the Kite/Balloon trainers as they are able to learn what the different heights look like from continual repetition.


I cant really comment on the highest falcon Ive seen go up. I know my m8 sends his up to a thousand foot to the kite when fitness training.(The line is measured out on the kite).
What I do know is this, like already been said really. The long wing men tel so many porkies about pitch etc its untrue.(thats not meant at all longwing men). Ive been out and watched falcons go up and asked the falconer how high is that? They give a reply like 700 foot. When in gods honesty its 350 foot. So Ive come to a conclusion. If someone says there falcon goes up to 1000 foot everytime. Then just half it and you wont be far off!!! Lol.:lol:. Atb Yorkie..

[SugezWolf]

Has "Bubble" produced babies like himself in the flying department?



Hi Brian - he has produced only 5 tiercels & 3 falcons so far but apart from 2 tiercels & a falcon (all flown by myself) they have all been raised as imprints for future breeding and are untested. 'Aero' was even better than his dad as a youngster but I made an error with his training and his pitch was dramatically reduced from 1200ft to around 500ft in less than a month. His sister, 'Marnie' was a victim of lack of wind for my kiting regime (since sorted by the acquisition of a Helikite so it can never happen again) but she shows signs of being a real flyer although she will never reach her full potential. Alas - the other tiercel, 'Fizz' came to an untimely end when still in training although this hawk had great ability in strong winds for a peregrine. All of these hawks are the latest in a long line of peregrines originating from a haggard tiercel from the English Lakes called 'Wizwas'. This line is littered with famous gamehawks such as tiercels - 'Arran' & 'Mike' and falcons - 'Skye' & 'San'.

Gerry x

[BarbaryHawking06]

Any falcon might wait on really high and speck out once in a season especially if thermals are involved, for me that ain't a high flyer.....
A high flyer goes way the **** up there, anytime, anywhere and any weather.
If it then proceeds to come down with all that it has and kill the quarry in good style... thats a great gamehawk for me

[Brian Sullivan]

Any falcon might wait on really high and speck out once in a season especially if thermals are involved, for me that ain't a high flyer.....
A high flyer goes way the **** up there, anytime, anywhere and any weather.
If it then proceeds to come down with all that it has and kill the quarry in good style... thats a great game hawk for me

As you state he ones that always fly high and consistently in any weather where the ceiling allow for this height with addition to any location, these are the real deal. The one that takes a pitch to this 800 or higher from time to time is not the exceptional one. Thermals should not be any part of the Falcon climbing to high heights as even the Buteo's can be taught to go really high in Thermals.

I am talking about Falcons that power up to consistent high pitches. 800-1200 feet is about as perfect as it gets for a good high flying game killing Falcon. The ones that fly higher are very rare and only have known a couple that could be fit into this category- one a female Peregrine and the other a Gyrkin. I have seen many Gyr x Peregrine males fly at the 700-1000 foot range, but this again is nothing special for them.

Brian

[Kashai]

Hi,

This bird was flown this year by me:

YouTube- Falconstoop

I've posted some lines about her, but her height always a viewpoint, as she is an outstanding climber. On this video (18th october) her average level was about 180-200 metres (measured by Leica rangemaster). A month later her average was around 300m, although this monocular cannot focus on her above 290 metres (the highest was 297m).

I've served her with homing pigeons and lure. Two times I was counting the seconds while she was in stoop. I started as she closed her wings, and finished when she turned into a horizontal approach at about 100 m far and 2-3m high, and opened them again. Once I counted till 21, some days later 31. Both times she came to the lure, so no chase, only closed wings, and gravitation. I don't know the height.

Of course she several times disappeared above me, and only the receiver helped me to know, that she was above, but when I was counting, I saw het from the beginning till the end...

I stopped training her on the 3rd of march.

That's what I can say. I have no goal by these lines. I never lie... It's useless.:) You can watch her at chase at the early times. In december I ran out of pigeons..:(

K

[Brian Sullivan]

Hi,

This bird was flown this year by me:

YouTube- Falconstoop (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23K8HmEO07Y&feature=player_embedded)

I've posted some lines about her, but her height always a viewpoint, as she is an outstanding climber. On this video (18th october) her average level was about 180-200 metres (measured by Leica rangemaster). A month later her average was around 300m, although this monocular cannot focus on her above 290 metres (the highest was 297m).

I've served her with homing pigeons and lure. Two times I was counting the seconds while she was in stoop. I started as she closed her wings, and finished when she turned into a horizontal approach at about 100 m far and 2-3m high, and opened them again. Once I counted till 21, some days later 31. Both times she came to the lure, so no chase, only closed wings, and gravitation. I don't know the height.

Of course she several times disappeared above me, and only the receiver helped me to know, that she was above, but when I was counting, I saw het from the beginning till the end...

I stopped training her on the 3rd of march.

That's what I can say. I have no goal by these lines. I never lie... It's useless.:) You can watch her at chase at the early times. In december I ran out of pigeons..:(

K

Hi K,

That is one "outstanding" Falcon. That many seconds in the stoop so late in the season is amazing. That means she is very high!! For a young Falcon to finish up like that is one you may want to breed from in the future. Stooping to the lure is going to slower then coming into pigeons, but still she is up there! I have had no problem with my Swaroski range finder giving me reading way up past 300 meters

Best regards, Brian

[Kashai]

Hi K,

That is one "outstanding" Falcon. That many seconds in the stoop so late in the season is amazing. That means she is very high!! For a young Falcon to finish up like that is one you may want to breed from in the future. Stooping to the lure is going to slower then coming into pigeons, but still she is up there! I have had no problem with my Swaroski range finder giving me reading way up past 300 meters

Best regards, Brian

Hi Brian,

Yes, she is outstanding. She is my highest bird ever.

I know, that coming to the lure is much slower, than coming down for the pigeon, but anyhow I do not know either speed to calculate the level. Maybe someone can, and these are the most exact datas I can give.:)

How can the swarowski measure the bird so high? The leica can scan up to 1200 metres at optimal circumstances, but a wingspam of around 1 metres is too small to be found by the scanner... (by Leica)

Breeding is forgettable I think. Father RNS, mother gyrxsaker. I don't expect any reproduction..:)

Kashai

[BarbaryHawking06]

As you state he ones that always fly high and consistently in any weather where the ceiling allow for this height with addition to any location, these are the real deal. The one that takes a pitch to this 800 or higher from time to time is not the exceptional one. Thermals should not be any part of the Falcon climbing to high heights as even the Buteo's can be taught to go really high in Thermals.

I am talking about Falcons that power up to consistent high pitches. 800-1200 feet is about as perfect as it gets for a good high flying game killing Falcon. The ones that fly higher are very rare and only have known a couple that could be fit into this category- one a female Peregrine and the other a Gyrkin. I have seen many Gyr x Peregrine males fly at the 700-1000 foot range, but this again is nothing special for them.

Brian

Hey Brian,
I think much higher than 1500ft also a lot of flights would fall into the category "that was the best flight that I've never seen!" For my part I like to see the stoop from beginning to end which has led me to stumble in the field sometimes as I was approaching the quarry trying to keep my eye on the falcon, when flying pigeons like in a sky trial or such it is possible to let the bird fly much higher and still keep it visually controlled as you know exactly where the quarry is.... and you don't have to correct your line of approach etc.
And I think a 1000ft is a damn high pitch...

[Nebli]

the highest I have seen was a peregrine tiercel of which I have forgot the name , that was in scotland and well around 2500ft or heigher.
I know that in spain 3000 ft pitchs are far from rare
but again it depends on so many factors ...
Maddog had once a tiercel who stooped for 22 sec that should have been a huge pitch as well.
I think huge pitchs are destined to countries were space is huge like spain in europe the us and canada in america , just because in 20 or more seconds a pheasan or any game really can really fly some ground and find cover .
I think that over 3000ft it's a bit useless because we reach human limits
can't see the falcon properly anymore ( at least myself).
best regards
juan

[KenG]

Male lanner called Blewitt flown by JPJ at the CLA Game Fair at Harewood i think it was in the 80's, specked out

[Stooper]

Bruce Haak had an intermewed, passage female red-naped shaheen, "Jasmine", twenty years ago (or so), here in Idaho, that would consistantly mount to beyond human vision, stay right above us as we followed the dogs in rolling foothill desert(thanks telemetry), until a covey of partridge was found. Bruce wouldn't put her up until we saw some sign of birdiness from the pointer. Usually five to fifteen minutes. Just keep your eye on the "huns", listen for the hiss, and see one get plucked at the bottom of the hill. We often have long periods of "dead" winter air, high pressure, giving little lift. It didn't matter with this falcon. She would take ducks off of big desert lakes, that would leave the water, thinking they were in no danger until it was too late. If there were thermals, she would use them, but certainly did not need them.
Unreal falcon, once in a lifetime if you are lucky.

Eric Tabb

[Cassini]

Bruce Haak had an intermewed, passage female red-naped shaheen, "Jasmine", twenty years ago (or so), here in Idaho, that would consistantly mount to beyond human vision, stay right above us as we followed the dogs in rolling foothill desert(thanks telemetry), until a covey of partridge was found. Bruce wouldn't put her up until we saw some sign of birdiness from the pointer. Usually five to fifteen minutes. Just keep your eye on the "huns", listen for the hiss, and see one get plucked at the bottom of the hill. We often have long periods of "dead" winter air, high pressure, giving little lift. It didn't matter with this falcon. She would take ducks off of big desert lakes, that would leave the water, thinking they were in no danger until it was too late. If there were thermals, she would use them, but certainly did not need them.
Unreal falcon, once in a lifetime if you are lucky.

Eric Tabb

Hi Eric, Yes Jasmine sure was special, Bruce told me about the situations you have described and how sometimes when he was on his own she would stay up for an age
while the dogs worked and Bruce just walked. he said he would have to serve her pigeons occasionally to keep her interested when they found it hard to find the partridges. Didn't he also fly her at Chukars as well in steep sided country there?

He sent me some beauty photo's of her on lots of ducks and Partridges

By all accounts he's doing well with his Peregrine Jinx . She sounds almost as good!

[Boxes]

There was a recent experiment on how fast a peregrine falcon could stoop. It was all put on camera.
The fastest was 242mph. I don’t know if they felt that was the highest they could go with that bird and the height escapes me. I know it’s a bit of topic but even though it obviously did not fly up there it would have been interesting on what height it was dropped over the side?
Another question is what species of pure falcon can and does go the highest? Surely those bird watchers would know or perhaps even Bill very oddly!

[Stooper]

Hi Eric, Yes Jasmine sure was special, Bruce told me about the situations you have described and how sometimes when he was on his own she would stay up for an age
while the dogs worked and Bruce just walked. he said he would have to serve her pigeons occasionally to keep her interested when they found it hard to find the partridges. Didn't he also fly her at Chukars as well in steep sided country there?

He sent me some beauty photo's of her on lots of ducks and Partridges

By all accounts he's doing well with his Peregrine Jinx . She sounds almost as good!

Jinx is a great Peregrine for sure. I still have been able to still see her up there, the few times I have been along. Damn high and for as long as is required.

Chukars were bumped every now and then. I don't know that some of those weren't dog trial escapees. They flew hard but it was almost always a single found. You don't want to fly a long-wing like Jasmine at them in their usual country. Ever seen "Hell's Canyon"?

He had to stop the pigeon thing after she kept chasing them out into the valley and catching them in some farmyard. I did see her catch a few wild,range-land pheasants that looked and flew for all the world like a sharp-tailed grouse, which BTW, would have been a gas with that falcon.

Now if we can just figure out a way to get some more like her over here.....:idea:

[Hatchero]

Highest pitch is hard to say since i don't know how you could tell since these birds would go up out of the view of 10X binoculars so i would not know just how high that could be. i have had two birds that would do this more or less consistently if i allowed it. i do know that it is too high to be practical. several times i have flushed ducks for these falcons(both tiercel peregrines actually) and watched the ducks fly out of sight only to find the tiercel on one of them 1/5 mile away or so. i well remember watching my tiercel peales disapear overhead(watching in 10X binos) so i flushed the ducks. the ducks circled for several minutes gaining height then clearing off. off in the distance i saw the tiercel cut one down. i had a tiercel GP that would take such pitches on occasion when out on the grouse flat. The problem was that if there was any wind at all (almost always the case) the grouse would fly out from under the tiercel leading to a come from behind at the end of the stoop---not a very successful technique.
Jim

[Cobus]

Used to thermal Lanners on Grouse. They would go so high u loose them with binocs. Don't know how high that I'd but seems high enough

[BladeRunner]

Used to thermal Lanners on Grouse. They would go so high u loose them with binocs. Don't know how high that I'd but seems high enough

Hey cobus.

Have to agree with you on lanners. Never had my peregrines as high as my lanners and often used telem to lacate them as one would soon lose them with binos.

[SANBoPC]

The long wing men tel so many porkies about pitch etc its untrue.(thats not meant at all longwing men). Then just half it and you wont be far off!!! Lol.:lol:. Atb Yorkie..

Hi Dean

What makes you say that?

Atb
Trevor

Initially I was going to post this on the political thread as I would hate to ruffle feathers, however as it's to do with longwings I decided to post here.

My sincere apologies to all IFF members for the difficulties experienced by you logging onto and surfing the IFF.

This afternoon while flying my 2 x intermewed African Peregrine Falcon "Big Girl" she knocked her head on a BS Satellite which effected telecommunications worldwide. I have spoken with the BS Sat technicians who have assured me the problem has been fixed however there might still be the odd telecommunication disruption across the globe as the satellite a model T aLL STor E settles.

Fortunately for me it was this model of satellite not the L oW OB iT model as I would have had to pay in the region of R200 000 000.00 to have it realigned. Luckily I have just printed my first batch of the new R200 000 000.00 notes in case we have this mishap again (see below).

Again my sincere apologies for interrupting your surfing of the IFF forum.

Trevor

75100

[Stooper]

Used to thermal Lanners on Grouse. They would go so high u loose them with binocs. Don't know how high that I'd but seems high enough
Were those Sandgrouse ? They sound amazing and a great challenge.
Most of my past Prairie Falcons would thermal out of sight when the lift was good. They would be up there messing around with wild Prairies and other BOP. Sometimes you wonder if they are going to come down.

[Mr.Smith]

Were those Sandgrouse ? They sound amazing and a great challenge.
Most of my past Prairie Falcons would thermal out of sight when the lift was good. They would be up there messing around with wild Prairies and other BOP. Sometimes you wonder if they are going to come down.

And sometimes they don't.

TS

[Stooper]

And sometimes they don't.

TS
Indeed. A year ago, February, my eyas female prairie, Purshia, went up into a soar with a rough-leg that took them both up into a high cloud layer. Just before they vanished in the 7X50's, I could see what looked like another prairie with them. Might have been seeing double.
Started to chuck pigeons, 3 of them that came together, circled and left with no attack from above. Sat down on a rock for awhile, it was a very nice day, early spring in the Morley Nelson Birds of Prey Natural Area. After fifteen minutes I got up and started walking slowly back to the truck, casually swinging the lure without looking up.
In what seemed like a freakishly short period of time, whoosh, there she was. Had enough fun playing in the heavens.
A few days later she did the same thing, but a pair of huns brought her down, putting them into some sparse sage. Hell of a stoop but the damn things got into badger holes. Half a hen pheasant carcass seemed to make her happy.
Beats playing golf, by a mile.

[Dean York]

Hi Dean

What makes you say that?

Atb
Trevor

Hi Trevor, what makes me say that is, sometimes falconers seem to want their birds to get to really high pitches that sometimes is not really needed. ie a falcon going up to 900ft for Pheasant is too high in my opinion.
So often I hear these birds going up to 1000 ft everytime there birds are cast off, I go to watch and its more like 500 or 600ft. Even if they are up to say 450 and I ask how high is that they say only 600.
So what Im saying is that they either want their birds to go higher than they are, they cant judge the pitch properly, or its a case of my bird goes higher than yours!!! Supose a bit like my bird is bigger than yours it flys at 2lb 10. Yours only flys at 2lb 2. If you get my drift.
So in my opinion "PITCH" can be somewhat exagerated. Atb Yorkie..

[Malar]

I'm not particularly "into" game hawking, however the stoops can be spectacular. I am very interested in how high some of these falcons fly!

A local landmark got me thinking...... you can easily see crows fly over this thing with the naked eye, which leads me to believe that when on a trip out with a local falconer and his female peregrine a while back not far from this area, she was WAY over 1000ft, she looked like someone had dotted a biro on the blue sky....and she destroyed the pheasant flushed by his old pointer to boot!

The Mendlesham transmitting station is a broadcasting (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broadcasting) and telecommunications (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telecommunications) facility, situated close to the village of Mendlesham (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mendlesham), near the town of Stowmarket (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stowmarket), in Suffolk (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suffolk), United Kingdom (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom) (Grid Reference: TM123640). It is owned and operated by Arqiva (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arqiva).
It has a 305.4 m (1002 ft) high guyed steel lattice mast (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_masts_and_towers#Steel_lattice).

[Fenlands Rescue]

Trev empty your pm box.

[Malar]

Trev empty your pm box.

Done, sorry :oops::D

[Tony James]

I'm not particularly "into" game hawking, however the stoops can be spectacular. I am very interested in how high some of these falcons fly!

A local landmark got me thinking...... you can easily see crows fly over this thing with the naked eye, which leads me to believe that when on a trip out with a local falconer and his female peregrine a while back not far from this area, she was WAY over 1000ft, she looked like someone had dotted a biro on the blue sky....and she destroyed the pheasant flushed by his old pointer to boot!

The Mendlesham transmitting station is a broadcasting (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broadcasting) and telecommunications (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telecommunications) facility, situated close to the village of Mendlesham (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mendlesham), near the town of Stowmarket (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stowmarket), in Suffolk (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suffolk), United Kingdom (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom) (Grid Reference: TM123640). It is owned and operated by Arqiva (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arqiva).
It has a 305.4 m (1002 ft) high guyed steel lattice mast (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_masts_and_towers#Steel_lattice).

Blimey Trev, I'd better keep my eyes peeled.
I fly female peregrines over there, and even have an old pointer, but I don't think my falcons go that high.

Best wishes,

Tony.

[Malar]

Blimey Trev, I'd better keep my eyes peeled.
I fly female peregrines over there, and even have an old pointer, but I don't think my falcons go that high.

Best wishes,

Tony.


Good old dog, and a memorable flight :wink:

[Mr.Smith]

When I had ordinary good eyesight I could see a falcon sitting on an utility pole at the measured distance of 3,300 feet away. I have also watched my own bird go out of eyesight straight up.

So what would you think 5,000 maybe? That was the question right? "What is the highest you have seen?" well that is it. Somewhere around five grand. Above that I couldn't see them so I can't say I seen them above that can I? But I have tracked them higher with telemetry, how much higher I don't know.

Can they take quarry from there? It depends on the terrain and the quarry.

The quarry has probably long forgotten it has seen a falcon in the vicinity and if it is in wide open spaces and the quarry feels at ease to fly off casually it is in for a big surprise as the falcon will come in fast and usually unseen by the quarry with scarcely time to dodge the impact. I have seen this many times and feel fortunate to have seen it.

If one is hawking in enclosed terrain then obivously those spectacular pitches would be a hinderence. One would have to be content with what he has or get to different terrain or fly a shortwing. The peregrine type falcons are birds of the sky. That is where they operate from in the wild and that is what we enjoy seeing them do, right?

Tom Smith

[Tony James]

When I had ordinary good eyesight I could see a falcon sitting on an utility pole at the measured distance of 3,300 feet away. I have also watched my own bird go out of eyesight straight up.

So what would you think 5,000 maybe? That was the question right? "What is the highest you have seen?" well that is it. Somewhere around five grand. Above that I couldn't see them so I can't say I seen them above that can I? But I have tracked them higher with telemetry, how much higher I don't know.

Can they take quarry from there? It depends on the terrain and the quarry.

The quarry has probably long forgotten it has seen a falcon in the vicinity and if it is in wide open spaces and the quarry feels at ease to fly off casually it is in for a big surprise as the falcon will come in fast and usually unseen by the quarry with scarcely time to dodge the impact. I have seen this many times and feel fortunate to have seen it.

If one is hawking in enclosed terrain then obivously those spectacular pitches would be a hinderence. One would have to be content with what he has or get to different terrain or fly a shortwing. The peregrine type falcons are birds of the sky. That is where they operate from in the wild and that is what we enjoy seeing them do, right?

Tom Smith

Hi Tom,

lovely, no nonsense stuff.

Best wishes,

Tony.

[Tony James]

Good old dog, and a memorable flight :wink:

And a few years older now too! I think she'll be sitting it out from now on.

Best wishes,

Tony.

[Mr.Smith]

Hi Tom,

lovely, no nonsense stuff.

Best wishes,

Tony.

Thanks Tony, and best wishes to you,

Tom Smith

[Brian Sullivan]

When I had ordinary good eyesight I could see a falcon sitting on an utility pole at the measured distance of 3,300 feet away. I have also watched my own bird go out of eyesight straight up.

So what would you think 5,000 maybe? That was the question right? "What is the highest you have seen?" well that is it. Somewhere around five grand. Above that I couldn't see them so I can't say I seen them above that can I? But I have tracked them higher with telemetry, how much higher I don't know.

Can they take quarry from there? It depends on the terrain and the quarry.

The quarry has probably long forgotten it has seen a falcon in the vicinity and if it is in wide open spaces and the quarry feels at ease to fly off casually it is in for a big surprise as the falcon will come in fast and usually unseen by the quarry with scarcely time to dodge the impact. I have seen this many times and feel fortunate to have seen it.

If one is hawking in enclosed terrain then obivously those spectacular pitches would be a hinderence. One would have to be content with what he has or get to different terrain or fly a shortwing. The peregrine type falcons are birds of the sky. That is where they operate from in the wild and that is what we enjoy seeing them do, right?

Tom Smith

Hi Tom,

Very good to read your writings and learn your knowledge. You and William/peregrinator on another thread seem to have a lot of experience and knowledge to share. I for one, appreciate it!

Best regards, Brian

[Fly The Snipe]

The highest flying longwings I have seen were (peregrines) out of sight and I needed to release 2 or 3 pigeons before they arrived on the last one.
Uninteresting situation of birds climbing in warm air, even well centered on the falconer, because they were flying without style and heart.
Sure I prefer a falcon climbing hard in the dark morning without help of the air, always beating wings at 280 meters. A falcon climbing like that is often a Pere or a G/P (400 meters as seen in sky trial).
Specialised binolucars often can't adjust a peregrine tiercel higher than 250-280 meters, so are anable to judge how high is the falcon.

[Mr.Smith]

Hi Tom,

Very good to read your writings and learn your knowledge. You and William/peregrinator on another thread seem to have a lot of experience and knowledge to share. I for one, appreciate it!

Best regards, Brian

Hi Brian, Thanks for the kind words, I haven't seen as much as I would like to have. And my falconry experience has been for me a little chaotic over time. I sometimes do not feel at ease talking about somethings I have seen with an aire of authority, because I'm no authority, I will be a student of falconry forever, I believe.

Tom Smith

[Brian Sullivan]

Hi Brian, Thanks for the kind words, I haven't seen as much as I would like to have. And my falconry experience has been for me a little chaotic over time. I sometimes do not feel at ease talking about somethings I have seen with an aire of authority, because I'm no authority, I will be a student of falconry forever, I believe.

Tom Smith

Hi Tom,

That quote of yours really sums it up. You do have a way with words and understanding!

Brian

[Barry]

Hal. Flown by Michael Calvin, Strathy. 1999. Amazing Clear sky, bird way way out of site. The grouse exploded when it was hit. Incredible demonstration of pitch and power.

Barry