Manning

[Jamie]

I did post this on another thread but thought I might aswell create my own thread incase it got lost in the other thread:

Hi All,

Sorry, don't want to hijack this thread but as this question seemed relevant to this thread, I thought I might as well post it on here rather than starting a new thread.

Anyway, someone told me, when you are manning a bird and you are training the bird to jump onto your fist. You sit and wait with a piece of DOC until the bird jumps onto your fist. I was then told to keep increasing the distance but again, with a DOC as reward. Wouldn't this teach the bird you are her chef and then wouldn't the bird will start becoming a screamer? If so, how can you teach the bird to come to the fist without food?

Thanks.

[Phil Noble]

Got this from www.lancsfalconry.co.uk:

Get your bird to come without showing her food

A lot of people put a full chick on their glove to get the bird to come to them. As the bird gets near they take the food away. The bird gets used to this and might stop coming because it thinks what’s the point he’s probably going to rob my food as I get there.

To over come this, always hide the food you are going to give her in the middle of your glove. That way she will come to you every time your fist goes up to find out if there’s anything in it.


Phil

[Leo 1]

Got this from www.lancsfalconry.co.uk:

Get your bird to come without showing her food

A lot of people put a full chick on their glove to get the bird to come to them. As the bird gets near they take the food away. The bird gets used to this and might stop coming because it thinks what’s the point he’s probably going to rob my food as I get there.

To over come this, always hide the food you are going to give her in the middle of your glove. That way she will come to you every time your fist goes up to find out if there’s anything in it.


Phil

agreed i stoped that my self as i yuster use a full doc to call my hh bk but ones that doc got to a tip bit she wudant bother and just sit ther i have now wich i got her to do in 2das is gt her to come to the glove as soon as it is rased with or with out food wich she will now do instantley i started my colling her leting her see the food then slowley sliding it in the the parm of the gloved hand puting the food out of site then ones she landed on the clove i wood let her see thit then graduley ceap doing it the and made he wat longer eatch time for me to revel it now she will instantley come to the glove with or with out food showing wether she is in flyet or not and it has mad for a hell of a lot faster respons and is pifect wen out hunting and neadher bk to the glove fast worked for me so carnt see why it wont for shems to work beter wen your bird strts to come be for u call but not to shore with that that is just my opinyan but it worked for me
ps dont litraly take the food away just slip it futher in to the parm of the glove to make it smaler ech time u call her till u are calling her with the food campletly hidan in the parm of ya gloved hand donrt litraly let he see the food then take it out of site or as hawker sez u will hend up with a lot more problams and this wont stop the bird screeming tho ps if u carn udersant this/what i put then i am shore some one will refraz it beter for u gd look m8

[SteveAstbury]

Riddick gave me a tread to read and it was very good. It involes hiding a tidbit in your glove so it can not be seen calling your bird and let them have there reward, repeat this straight away with nothing in your glove and call again, do this for one sesson then increase it next time so every 3 time give a reward. and so on. I did this and works well your your bird will start to know that when he comes he is coming on the off chance:supz:

[Jiff]

in my opinion manning and training are two seperate issues, but as for training, control what the bird eats, in the early days you are still overcomming fear and building confidance in the bird, i found that my bird paid little attention to me only the food, i used small peices of rabbit flesh, each time she jumped to the fist she ate the offering and that was that, no need to try and remove any food, so no chance of robbery, no chance of a mistake and the bird taking too much food and ending the session early, once the bird was steping then jumping leash length, i was a little more strict, if i showed the fist with the offering and didnt get a quick responce i would emediately put the glove behind my back and her chance of the offering was gone, i'd wait a few seconds and repeat the process, i would get a much quicker responce the second time, i prsonaly took quite a long time over the early stages, not increasing the distance too much untill the bird was almost moving as the gloved hand came up, the food to be fed was weighed obviously the bird was weighed also, i set out to maintain a good responce weight by weiging the food each time this was made easier, to maintain weight the bird needs suprisingly little food, so food type was looked into, hence rabbit flesh being used, more can be fed and weight maintained, however because of the small offerings the bird didnt associate this with me being a food frovider, when the bird entered to her first rabbit she was stuffed to the brim with as much as she could eat, she is now her own food frovider and was encouraged to do so with regular hunting, once the bird was free lofted, hunting was hunting obviously, but times i couldnt get out, work, weather etc, manning was treat differantly, apart from a tirring in the glove to catch the bird up she was never fed on the glove, instead her rations for the day were put in my pocket, as i caught the bird up and secured her to the fist as i turned to leave the aviery i would slyly drop the rations out of my pocket behind us, i would then man her in doors for as long as i had time for, on returning to the aviery she finds the food fairy has left her something nice, couldnt have been me as she was with me the whole time.:yawinkle:

[Alf]

To get any hawk to come to the fist the hawk first needs to associate the fist as a feeding platform or a provider of food.
Doesn’t make a rat’s ass if you start to hide the food later after the event the hawk knows this is where the food will be produced even if it doesn’t know when.
This will not stop the hawk screaming if has the mindset to do so. Alf.



Got this from www.lancsfalconry.co.uk:

Get your bird to come without showing her food

A lot of people put a full chick on their glove to get the bird to come to them. As the bird gets near they take the food away. The bird gets used to this and might stop coming because it thinks what’s the point he’s probably going to rob my food as I get there.

To over come this, always hide the food you are going to give her in the middle of your glove. That way she will come to you every time your fist goes up to find out if there’s anything in it.


Phil

[Leo 1]

Riddick gave me a tread to read and it was very good. It involes hiding a tidbit in your glove so it can not be seen calling your bird and let them have there reward, repeat this straight away with nothing in your glove and call again, do this for one sesson then increase it next time so every 3 time give a reward. and so on. I did this and works well your your bird will start to know that when he comes he is coming on the off chance:supz:

thats whot i wos on about carnt remember whos thread it wos but it bloody forks and fast my hh will come to me every time i flinch lol just on the off chance that i have sumert ther

[Phil Noble]

To get any hawk to come to the fist the hawk first needs to associate the fist as a feeding platform or a provider of food.
Doesn’t make a rat’s ass if you start to hide the food later after the event the hawk knows this is where the food will be produced even if it doesn’t know when.
This will not stop the hawk screaming if has the mindset to do so. Alf.

Yes i agree,I didnt write it,I just copied it rom the website.:)

phil

[Sean D]

thats whot i wos on about carnt remember whos thread it wos but it bloody forks and fast my hh will come to me every time i flinch lol just on the off chance that i have sumert ther

It was Matt Patchings thread on variable reward and I use it too

[Jiff]

i have to agree with the things being said however do not confuse the issue, as alf rightly says in the early days of training the bird must associate the glove with good things, you are asking for trouble if you start farting about in the early days, once the bird is trained and flying free, introduce the random reward system by all means, by doing this training and fittness sessions can be extended.

[Little Joe]

You sit and wait with a piece of DOC until the bird jumps onto your fist.
Thanks.

This is not correct. This is quick way to get the bird to start training you instead of the other way round.

The key is to allow the bird a limited window of opportunity to respond. If you show it food, and it doesnt jump within a few seconds, the food is gone. Lets her worry about this for a minute or two, then show it again. No response, try again tomorrow - and a valuable lesson has been learned by the hawk. Once you start begging a bird, its all down hill from there on. It will spill over into the lure and all responding you want from it.

BUT: For you to employ this method, you have to be certain the bird is carrying enough weight and that it is well-manned - manning means sitting with it and walking with it and generally getting it over its fear of you, its new surroundings and strange things.

And I say again, it should carry enough weight! You will find that this kind of conditioning will get instant responses eventually from a fat bird.

[Alf]

Jiff I think a few on here are detracting from the original question and that is will the variable reward system stop a hawk screaming and my answer is no!
Any association as the falconer being the food provider will start off any inbuilt reaction the hawk may have of a dependency of the falconer as a food source if the hawk is not yet mentally adjusted. Alf.



i have to agree with the things being said however do not confuse the issue, as alf rightly says in the early days of training the bird must associate the glove with good things, you are asking for trouble if you start farting about in the early days, once the bird is trained and flying free, introduce the random reward system by all means, by doing this training and fittness sessions can be extended.

[Jamie]

This is not correct. This is quick way to get the bird to start training you instead of the other way round.

The key is to allow the bird a limited window of opportunity to respond. If you show it food, and it doesnt jump within a few seconds, the food is gone. Lets her worry about this for a minute or two, then show it again. No response, try again tomorrow - and a valuable lesson has been learned by the hawk. Once you start begging a bird, its all down hill from there on. It will spill over into the lure and all responding you want from it.

BUT: For you to employ this method, you have to be certain the bird is carrying enough weight and that it is well-manned - manning means sitting with it and walking with it and generally getting it over its fear of you, its new surroundings and strange things.

And I say again, it should carry enough weight! You will find that this kind of conditioning will get instant responses eventually from a fat bird.

Can you use this method for a PR bird when you are first trying to teach it to jump to the glove for the first time?

P.s. Thank you every one else for your replies.

[Little Joe]

Can you use this method for a PR bird when you are first trying to teach it to jump to the glove for the first time?

P.s. Thank you every one else for your replies.

It applies for any bird. By the time you do this though, the bird is already manned and eating happily on the fist. This principle comes into play when you start asking the bird to come to the glove or lure, no matter if its 10cm or 1000m.

You have to try and read the bird. You also dont want to ask of it something you can see it will not do. When its sitting looking around and not paying attention to you, you wait. Only when its keen and looking where the food is, do you show it to her. As soon as she realizes that she cant make you wait and it sometimes lead to an empty crop for an extended period, she will become eager and responsive instantly she sees food. Then you can start pushing her weight up and she will stay that way.

When entering you have to drop her again a bit until she catches on to the new task at hand, killing stuff. After a while you can push her weight up again. All the time you have to watch her carefully and make judgement calls based on her behaviour. It takes some experience, so dont be discouraged in the beginning, but the principle is what's important.