Indi bhai log

[SolidLeo]

Are koe to eess manch ko abbad karo....!!!!:lol::lol: Kahan haen sub baazdar.

[Jehanzeb]

Sara Jungle kairneee
Kithe hai meri darling Shairnee!!

hahaha!

Kee haal aaa?!

Regards

[spamsingh]

Thought I would add to this thread from Indian angle and in particular from the persepective of Sikhs.

Sikh dharm vich baaz nu puran satkar ditha janda. Baaz ik shaan shauqat wala janbar maneya janda hai. -In the Sikh faith the falcon is given full respect. Birds of prey are considered to be animals of splendour in Sikhism.

This centuries old linkage between Sikhs and birds of prey goes back to the time of the Sikh Guru. The tenth Guru of the Sikhs - Guru Gobind Singh Ji was known as the 'chittay baja wala' which translates to the 'one with white falcon'. There are historical references available which document that white (or pale) falcons were being imported into India during the Mughal empire.

Memoirs of Jahangir (Tuzuk-i-Jahangiri) translated by A. Rogers ed. H Beveridge, New Delhi, reprint 1978, vol 2, pp10-11 mentions that tuyghun (palest Gyr Falcons) were keenly sought during the Mughal period. Ain-i-Akbari also mentions the mughals had: Northern goshawk, Besra, Eurasian sparrowhawk, Shikra, Collared Falconet, Golden Eagle.

The sixth Sikh Guru - Guru Hargobind Sahib Ji also kept falcons. One such falcon was the cause of a serious conflict between Sikhs and the imperial mughal forces in 1628 which resulted in the Sikhs killing several senior Mughal army generals during battles.

Today keeping birds of prey is banned in India but the Sikh continue to hang on to their traditions in defiance of these laws. A subgroup of Sikhs called the Nihangs, who are warriors still keep fine horses, elephants and birds of prey. The trouble makers who were behind the ban on keeping birds of prey and incidently who happily keep large dogs (such as irish wolfhounds) in cramped city apartments do not have the bottle to stop the Nihangs hanging onto their traditions.

Below are a few photos in the public which show Sikhs and birds of prey and a youtube video clip of a Nihang Jathedar (leader) who appears to be high on bhang (cannabis) whilst showing off his bird.

A young nihang in Delhi during Sikh celebrations. Notice the bird of prey on his attire, again this highlights the significance of b.o.p. to Sikhs.
84405

A Sikh showing off his bop during celebrations in deccan (Hazur Sahib) in Maharashtra.
84403

An american convert to Sikhism carrying on the tradition of keeping b.o.p.

84404

Video of an old Nihang jathedar at his shoni (military camp) with his b.o.p.
YouTube - Jathedar Nihang Singh Akali Baba Surjeet Singh with his Hawk

Your feedback and questions are most welcome. I will try my best to answer or veerji solidleo can help.

[SolidLeo]

Really good reading Satnam ( Spamsingh ) and invaluable knowledge gained many thanks.

Seen many Nihangs with there birds but was not able to get pics as they dint let me lol

There is a guy ( Nihang ) in Amritsar. A very experienced falconer and a very good bell maker, he's now 70 or so & still doin falconry.

Aho Nihang tan kuch bhee kar sakdae hagae, phamaen o falconry hovae yah kuch hor hahaha

Ah Nihang Baazdari veech Ustad hagaa, naalae tazurba boet hagae ees bandae noo.

Jaa kae meel kae avannga ees naal ;)

[Diegovog]

Very nice indeed.

Where such gyrs would come from, back then?

[spamsingh]

Diegovog,

Historic accounts from Mughal court records and biographers from the 17th century appear to suggest that the Gyr were bought over by traders and travellers from what is now Scandanavia, Iceland etc.

Not sure how the Gyr falcons survived the hot summers on the Indian plains but then again with the resources of the mughal kings they could have had them taken to cooler areas such as Kashmir or what is now Himachal in india. Naturally cooled rooms were also incorporated into forts. I am sure our Pakistani friends who have visited Lahore fort can testify how good the cooled chamber is within the fort.

Also according to the references I have seen, Gyr falcons were not used for hunting. These falcons had an aura of superiority and superstitions developed as a result. One of the superstitions was that a touch of the Gyr could cure fever.

[Sandeep]

Iss Manch ko Abaad dekh kar bahut khushi hui.... that is a great video... A|t the ball is now rolling...

Cheers
Sandeep

[PrinceOfTheWesternDesert]

great thread,, sounds like my kind of sect,,,

[SolidLeo]

Diegovog,

Historic accounts from Mughal court records and biographers from the 17th century appear to suggest that the Gyr were bought over by traders and travellers from what is now Scandanavia, Iceland etc.

Not sure how the Gyr falcons survived the hot summers on the Indian plains but then again with the resources of the mughal kings they could have had them taken to cooler areas such as Kashmir or what is now Himachal in india. Naturally cooled rooms were also incorporated into forts. I am sure our Pakistani friends who have visited Lahore fort can testify how good the cooled chamber is within the fort.

Also according to the references I have seen, Gyr falcons were not used for hunting. These falcons had an aura of superiority and superstitions developed as a result. One of the superstitions was that a touch of the Gyr could cure fever.

Bohut hee changee post keetee hae Satnam ( Spamsingh ) .... !!!!

[SolidLeo]

Iss Manch ko Abaad dekh kar bahut khushi hui.... that is a great video... A|t the ball is now rolling...

Cheers
Sandeep

Bhai, Manch ko Abaad to hamee nae karna ha na;). Hum logo ko bhee apnee bhasha ma kuch thread start karnee chaheeyan. Jahan hum sub meel kar views share kar sakan .... !!!!

[HindustaniBazdaar]

Satsriakal, Mr. Satnaam Singh

Thank you for the informative post. Though the present status of keeping Raptors appears to be a symbolic one rather than practising Falconry. However im sure that some Sikhs do still practice the heritage,art and sport of ""Falconry"' in India.


May the heritage of Indian Falconry flourish in the right spirit yet again

All the best

Hyder

(Dubai)

[spamsingh]

Hyder,

What you say is true, it does appear that it is now just a symbolic gesture without using the b.o.p for any form of shikar. Sad to see such magnificent raptors kept as day to day pets. However as Leo has stated there are some Sikhs who still practice this ancient art and are happy to flout the law to carry on with practices (that predate the creation of modern Republic of India).

If anyone can keep the art alive then it is nihangs, they are a law onto themselves and do not give two hoots about the narrow minded individuals who run setups like People for Animals in India.

This anti shikar stance is not only bad for falconers but is making peoples lives a misery. Over the last few decades there has been a huge spurt in the population of bluebulls in the district my family originates from. They destroy crops and when in masti the bulls have been known to charge people and gore them to death. Sadly due to the stupidity that exists at national level the farmers are not allowed to control the population. However over the last few months there are changes going on, in Punjab they have allowed wild boars to be hunted again (if farmers follow certain criteria and protocols).

Maybe if falconry had been allowed to carry on we would still have decent shaheen numbers in Punjab (albeit captive). Now the government have got the guy from Jaipur undertaking some form of captive breeding as there has been a serious decline in shaheen in Punjab and himachal areas.

[SolidLeo]

Jaipur wala guy oos project ma nahee ha ( Satnam ) , not anymore. Ab vo log Uk kae bandon kae contact maen han .... !!!!

[spamsingh]

Leo,

When did he get pulled from that project. There was a big fanfare in Punjabi press about this guy getting the project.

[SolidLeo]

Long time back bro, oonhanae contact keeta seega adae naal but project veech layae nee .... !!!!

[SolidLeo]

Hyder bhai, Kya haal han.

Yahan apnae views share kara karo, Hamaen bhee yahan apnae hindustani baazdaron ka section start karna ha, jaesa kee baki logon nae keeya hua hae.

[HindustaniBazdaar]

Hi all,

by jaipur wala and the falcon project , you guys are refering to the chatbir zoo project and Mr.Shahid khan i presume?...well i hope this project takes wing. Quite often such projects gets mired in controversies and politics and much too often our govt officials are only too happy to involve the gora sahebs. The vulture project too had similar state of affairs.

By the way, other than in the news, and flying on a line, has anyone seen Shahid khan fly or hunt with the birds...just curious.

[Turumti]

My Dear Indian Friends,

The biggest misfortune of falconry either side of the border has been people who killed falconry just to keep it an elitist sport, or then those who sold it out to foreigners. In Pakistan, the falconers have been betrayed by the traitors in their country, traitors who have always sold the nation to whoever pays them well. These days their pay masters are the self styled royalty from across the Persian Gulf.

India was spared this plague by Indira Gandhi when she banned them forever from setting foot upon Indian soil in 1974.

About 30 years ago, when the Soviet Union had just invaded Afghanistan and the US was trying to strike a deal with Pakistan to allow weapons to be sent to the Afghan guerillas via Pakistan, an American diplomat, well acquainted with the Pakistani politicians, beaureaucrats and similar scum, remarked,"Given the right amount of money, they (Pakistanis) would even sell their mothers". What he sad was very sad, but very true as well.

May the wrath of God visit all those who have visited misery upon the falconers of these two nations!

Regards,

Salman

[SolidLeo]

Bilkul sahee kaha Salman, bohut achee post karee. Very very True bro.....!!!!

[HindustaniBazdaar]

Hello Salman,

What you mentioned is the bitter truth. In the Indian context, I personally feel that Falconry is very gradually making a comeback. However my wish is:mad: to see it back with its deserved original undiluted status. As nowadays genuine falconry all over the world is somewhat affected with the mixing of casual bird of prey enthusiast with a passing interest in falconry. I have come across many instances in India where people find young kites who then proudly tie it up with wires chains, nylon ropes and roaming in the streets and to make it worse, sometimes they end up being a celebrity hogging the limelight in the media which reads '' sport of the nawabs!! falconers with rare falcon!! the latest fad being desktop falconry and in the middleeast is what i coined a name for such guys "'supermarket falconers"'
Buy ANY raptor, pose with it, post it on the net, and there you are! another falconer added to the list.

For every original, there are bound to be hundereds of copies.

Well, i guess such situations cant be helped after all. Falconry ke side effects.

[spamsingh]

Quite often such projects gets mired in controversies and politics and much too often our govt officials are only too happy to involve the gora sahebs. The vulture project too had similar state of affairs.

By the way, other than in the news, and flying on a line, has anyone seen Shahid khan fly or hunt with the birds...just curious.

Whatever happened to the British funded vulture project? Is it a succcess?

I remember when we used to travel into town in Haryana there used to be a had-kana place (place where they put old animal carcas and some man skins them for leather). The place used to have a good 20 to 30 large vultures but now nothing. The locals used to say the americans had taken all the vultures.

[SolidLeo]

Nihang, Baaz kae sath ...!!!!

[spamsingh]

Nice photo Leo. Looks as if it might be the same guy that is in my picture or from the same Gatka akhara as his attire is exactly the same.

[HindustaniBazdaar]

Hi all,

Nice Pic Karan. it is indeed the same person with the rednaped shahin.

It should be easier for these guys to tame the bird as they are constantly in groups more or less.

So far we have seen 4 species of raptors. looking forward to more pics.

regards
Hyder

[SolidLeo]

Nice photo Leo. Looks as if it might be the same guy that is in my picture or from the same Gatka akhara as his attire is exactly the same.

Ty veerae , Aho banda tan o hee lagda haega with navaen bird naal , i think pic Holla Mohalla festival ( Anandpur Sahib ) dee hae.

[SolidLeo]

Hi all,

Nice Pic Karan. it is indeed the same person with the rednaped shahin.

It should be easier for these guys to tame the bird as they are constantly in groups more or less.

So far we have seen 4 species of raptors. looking forward to more pics.

regards
Hyder

Shukreeya Hyder,

Yes they are very good falconers with lots of experience, yes they tame there birds very soon then nyone else could & you know it why.

Regards Karan

[SolidLeo]

Toe lo ek or pic ....!!!!

[HindustaniBazdaar]

Hi Karan,

marvellous pic! the expression of the bird tells all. Bahaut khoob! again kya yeh bhi Nihanghi baj hai? atee sundar baj hai.

Regards
Hyder:supz:

[SolidLeo]

Hello Hyder,

Shukreeya bhai, han ji Nihangi baaz hee hae, as you can see a Sikh banda kharda hae peechae ....!!!!


Regards Karan

[Arsalan]

very happy to see this forum active..

[SolidLeo]

Shukreeya Arsalan bhai :goodman:

[Sunny2Funky]

dosto mai bahut dino sai dhund raha tha indian falconry /bazdari kioki mai chahta hun is manch ko itna agie laya jaye taki aj kal ke genration ko humare cultur ka pata chal sake or is shaandar bird ko or respact mile , or kissi ke pass koi ache breeding pair ho to mujko contect kare kioki india mai abhi b koi breedin nahi karwata ,or mujko is manch sai jud kar bahut acha laga i hope ki hum log mil kar isko or agie le jaynge

[SolidLeo]

Sunny, pahlae to Welcome ees manch per. Or bohut acchee soch hae kee hum sub ko meel kar ees manch ko bohut agae la kar jana chaheeyea. Apnae barae mae kuch aur batao, kahan sae ho or yah manch kae barae mae tumhae kasae pata chala.

Leo

[Sandeep]

ok now that the mikgratory season is in.... any good sightings of Bhairi ?? come one Bhai log... post karo :supz:

[SolidLeo]

han ji sandeep bhai. kasae ho.

[Sandeep]

market mein birds aane shuru hue ??

[SolidLeo]

Agae dakhtaen han .

[Sunny2Funky]

leo i hope u doin gud n hello to everyone in a. b .m ,,,,,,,,,, m from delhi , n is munch ka pata mujko net surfing sai chala jese mane phly bataya tha , or apsai mujko ye madad chahye ki koi acha bird apke pass ho train ya row bas age kam ho mai usko addoption / ya buy kar lunga , or koi jankari chahye to bata dena ,

[SolidLeo]

Sunny kya tum Baazdar ho, yah Baazdari seekhna chahtae ho ?

[Sunny2Funky]

leo mai filhaal baazdar nahi hun 12 saal phly mane baazdari ki thi thode time ke liye ,phir mane dog breeding , buy salein , or training mai laga raha , per mai aab kuch asa karna chahta kiss sai baazdari ko badawa mile , ek club suru kare , mane itni surfing kari per india ka kahi namo -nishan tak nahi hai baazdaari mai , mane bahut resurch kari hai , or isi baat pe pahucha hun ki hum log kissi chiz ko invent to kar dete hai per us hunner ko fela nahi pate , or baki log is mai agie baad jate hai , to kya aap mere help karogy ?

[SolidLeo]

Soon kar bohut accha laga kee tumnae 12 saal pahlae baazdari kee thee. Apnee baazdari ka bare mae apnae views hum logon ko btayn. Kon kon sae parindon sae Baazdari kee thee. Or kya mdud cahtae ho hum sab sae. Delhi mae kahan sae ho.

[Sunny2Funky]

mane ek 1 saal 3 month ka golden eagle pala tha 5 month training di thi , phir shakir baaz ko thode din rakha tha uski age jada thi or temper b jada tha , madad sirf parende kharedne ya adopt karna chahta hun kioki yaha achi nasal mushkil sai milti hai , baher sai import karwane mai bimareo ka khatra bana rehta hai ,

[SolidLeo]

Golden eagle wah ji wah. Agar bura na mano to kya mae pooch saktan hoon kee golden eagle kahan sae leeya or kya koee pics han Golden eagle kee hum sub kae sath share karnae ka leeyae ?

[Sunny2Funky]

mane golden eagal punjab mai kisi party ke liye import karwaya tha uzbecistan sai , nahi mere pas uski filhal koi pic nahi hai , or jo mane pucha uska jawab to diya nahi tum kaha sai ho or koun c breed ko cerry kar rahe ho ?

[SolidLeo]

Bhai bahar sae hee import karva lo koee bird. Keetnae mae import karvaya tha, kya punjab walee party sae touch ma abhee bhee ho, agar han to pooch lo agar koee pics meel jayen Golden eagle keen ? Or han bahar agar keesee acchae breeder sae import karvao to koee beemareeyon ka khatra nahee hota. Tumhae kasae pta Geagle kee age Jada thee ?

[Sunny2Funky]

apne sonia gandhi g ka naam suna hoga shyad unki N G O ne ye lw lagwaya hai ki koi b insaan kissi b bird ka import nahi kara sakta jub tak uske pass indian licence na ho or woh milta nahi ab to sara kam chori sai hota hai phly mere jaan pehchan ke admi ne mere madad ki thi usne check karke mujko bheja tha , or ap to jante he honge ki ache bird ki kimat hum afford nahi kar sakte uk ya us sai manga kar , aapna aapna yahoo chat i,d de do

[Sunny2Funky]

solid g kaha busy ho mai apke reply ka wait kar raha tha

[SolidLeo]

Sunny Ji open forum mae yah sab mut leekha karo, yah International Manch hae, So post karnae sae pahlae socha karo kya leekh rahae ho.

[Sunny2Funky]

ok thx 4 ur advice bt thoda to mai b padha likha hun , or mere baat ka reply nahi kiya.

[SolidLeo]

UK sae import karva lo koee accha bird, jada mahanga nahee padaega.

[Sunny2Funky]

thx bro , i allready sent msg to a breedr

[SolidLeo]

So kon sa bird lanae kee soch rahae ho bhai.

[Sunny2Funky]

peregrin or mix gry /sakir

[Goshawk]

Heres wishing all you guys out here A Verry Happy DIWALI :rock: :trans: :rock: :twisted:. . .Gav

[SolidLeo]

Shukreeya lil bro Gav:wink:

[Sunny2Funky]

wishes u many happy diwali to all user

[DothanFalconry]

Hello,

I just wanted to say hi and that I am an indian falconer living here in the USA. My parents are from Gujarat, India near the city of Surat and Bardoli. I was born in England but now am living here in the USA. I have not met ANY indian falconers here in the USA besides me. Hope to talk to you guys soon. Thanks!

Jatin

[HindustaniBazdaar]

Hi Jatin,

Great to hear from an Indian practising Falconer. What birds are you flying at present? incidently, my father hails from Junagadh district of Gujarat, but had nothing to do with Falconry or birds.

Do you know any more practising Falconers from Gujarat where the erstwhile Prince and great Falconer Shri Dhramakumarsinhji lived?

Regards and good Hawking

Hyder

India

[JMorrison222]

Gavin..... lets go soon ... Guruji... kab aarahe ho ??? gavin and i dont get so lucky without you.... ..

Bilal

[DothanFalconry]

Hello!

I am coming to India on November 14 and will be near Surat, India! I am an indian falconer here in the USA! Are there any falconers near there? I will be traveling all over the country and would like to meet you guys!!! Please email me at jatinuniversity@yahoo.com and let me know where you guys are at! thanks!

Jatin

[Sadi74]

Hello,

I just wanted to say hi and that I am an indian falconer living here in the USA. My parents are from Gujarat, India near the city of Surat and Bardoli. I was born in England but now am living here in the USA. I have not met ANY indian falconers here in the USA besides me. Hope to talk to you guys soon. Thanks!

Jatin

Hi Jatin....guess you can UP the number by one! Another Indian here in the US. How long have you been at it here?
Happy Diwali to You & all the other Indian Brothers here.....

[DothanFalconry]

hello!

I am doing great! I have been in falconry since 2004. Where from India are you from and do you know any falconers there? I heard there are only 3 left legally but I have spoken to others in the past....do you have an number where I can call? you can send me your number at jatinuniversity@yahoo.com
talk to you soon!

[Sadi74]

Email sent.....

[JupeSingh]

Turumti and SolidLeo - pls get in touch :-)

Turumti - please clear your Inbox :-)

Thanks,


Atma Singh

[SolidLeo]

Turumti and SolidLeo - pls get in touch :-)

Turumti - please clear your Inbox :-)

Thanks,


Atma Singh

Han ji Han ji veeray :wink:, very busy these days lol

[Rizwan]

Hello

Bhai's

Mein Hyderabad se hoon. Bhot acha laga aap sab ko yahan dekh kar.

Mujhe Raptors rakhne ka bhot shouk hai per usse pehle seekhna chahton hoon.

Koi hyderabad se hai kya yahan?

[SolidLeo]

Hi Rizwan,

Antar Rashtriya Baazdari Manch mae appka swagat hay. Hyder Bhai Apkee city say hee han. Ap oonko msg karo.

Karan

[Rizwan]

Hi Rizwan,

Antar Rashtriya Baazdari Manch mae appka swagat hay. Hyder Bhai Apkee city say hee han. Ap oonko msg karo.

Karan

Shukriya karan bhai and hyder bhai ke information ke liye. Mein naya join hua hoon tu PM nahi karsakta Hyder bhai ko, tu kaise contact karon unse?

Kya aap ke paas bhi falcon hai? Mujhe raptors rakhe ka bhot shoukh tha per personal reasons ke waje se nai karsaka. Lekin is forum se confidence agaya hai aur aap sab se inspiration.