The cycle of moulting

[HawkMan]

Hello
Can anyone explain what the cycle of moulting is !
I know you feed them upto fat weight and they loose there down (what happens after this ,And how long will it take for my red to complete the moult .
Sorry if it sounds a daft question ,only learning .
Thanks
johnny :wink:

[Hawkmaster]

Hi there Johnny,

Nice to hear from you again!

Here is what I do that will also speed up the the moult.

Feed until the bird is fat and leaving food.
Give one or two days fasting period.
Feed high protein food for a day or two.
Feed up again with normal food.
Start the cycle again.

HTH?
Paul

[HawkMan]

Thanks for that paul
Flames started to loose her down feathers ,when will the primary feathers start dropping he,s been in his moult about 4 weeks now ,
Ive been feeding him Doc and the occassional quail ?
Is rat a high protein food ,if not what is .
All the best
Johnny

[Hawkmaster]

Yip all fine.

[Darren]

Iam in the same boat as Johnny I have a male harris hatched may 2004 & over the last 3 weeks he has been loosing down & he is a good 2-3OZ over weight now.So hopefully he will start to loose his feathers soon.

[Hawkmaster]

Pump them up even more!

[Goldie]

Yes as hawkmaster says, better qualiy grub

[KevGem1]

hi everybody i do much the same as hawkmaster. i give my birds quail/rats and stuff ive frozen over the hunting season when she catches i let here take her reward at the end of the hunting session and put what ever is left in the freezer.comes in very handy through the moult.but just to repeat what hawkmaster said i tend to give high quailty food for a few days then a few days of docs.i have done this for a few years now and they tend to come out of the moult feather perfect (touch wood).hope this is of some help KEV. :wink: ps. i also put raptor essential on there food in my opinion this would help in promoting good feather growth.

[Darren]

he weighs 1lb 113/8oz now & was manned fat weight 1lb 12oz last year.
I was involved with his manning last year & helped fly/train him last year.

[ColdZero]

why doesn't letting the hawk get so overweight effect their health? If you let a human get as fat as possible, then reduced their weight every year they would die young. I know they are different, but i doubt they get anywhere near as fat in the wild.
Also, how long is the average moult of a wild bird, compared to a falconry bird kept at high weight?

[KevGem1]

you would be surprised how heavy wild birds of prey actually are, as there is nobody dropping there weight to man them or to hunt with them. Therefore there is nobody dictaiting how much they can eat at any one sitting. therefore they tend to eat what they want and as much as they can so you will find that a wild raptor will possibly weigh much more than a captive one, providing the area that they live is plentyful with game. just my opinion be interesting what other people think. cheers kev

[ColdZero]

they reduce wild caught birds quite a lot when caught, but its still not the obese size they get in moult, doesn't suddenly having so much extra fat have any effect at all?

[IAmTheWeasel]

I will add to this one as I have had this conversation with the raptor vet. He said that too heavy is bad as they will develop foot problems from the added weight on their feet. Think about it. In the wild, they are able to stay off their feet as much as they want therfore reducing the chances of injuring their feet. Plus, how often do you see a wild bird pluncking from one perch to another in the wild over short distances. This short distance that they jump in the mews is not cushioned by a smooth transition from flight like they would in the open wild. This also created un-normal amounts of pressure on the pads of their feet....I add about 10-12% of their body weight to the birds flight weight for the moult. Now, wasn't this thread about the order of feathers dropped in a moulting raptor?.....

[Jiff]

hi guy's i'm tending to agree to a certain extent,there was a comment about feeding up untill the bird leaves food,if like me you have a glutanous bird which will eat for the fun of it,beware! i was waiting for her lack of interest in food to show itself but that stage never came she became so big i didnt have enough weights to ballance her out,i brought her back down gradualy before the moult realy kicked in and now i manage her weight alot more carefully,which infact means alot more close scrutiny and contact which suits me as i didnt whant to just sit and watch for a few months,sky is fed in line with whats already been said,only i have no hard and fast regime,rats,quail,doc's,rabbit all fed at differant times with a fast day on a saturday which fits in with my work rotta, sky started shotting fluff weeks ago big body feathers soon followed and two flights last week end so something is working. i must admit it did cross my mind about the weight on the feet bit, i've monitored her condition closely over her moulting period and so far alls well, best wishes to you all for a speedy moult :wink:

[Mary Quite Contrary]

Supplements on the food everyday
Cod liver every other day on the food 1-2ml
Egg yolks twice a week or Doc
Good food everyday

A job well begun is a job half done!

[RabbitHawker]

I'd be careful with the use of cod liver oil, a couple of drops is fine, but 1-2 ml is a potentially toxic dose. Think of how much that would be if scaled up to a human dose- 100-200ml for a human. There are 2 problems,
1. it is pure fat, for the moult high protein is the key.
2. Vitamin D toxicity can cause bone cahnges and systemic toxicity.
A good varied diet of DOC if you have to with rats quail etc. on top

[Mary Quite Contrary]

I'd be careful with the use of cod liver oil, a couple of drops is fine, but 1-2 ml is a potentially toxic dose. Think of how much that would be if scaled up to a human dose- 100-200ml for a human. There are 2 problems,
1. it is pure fat, for the moult high protein is the key.
2. Vitamin D toxicity can cause bone cahnges and systemic toxicity.
A good varied diet of DOC if you have to with rats quail etc. on top

This is not the exact dosage i use. I said that as a rough guide.
Nick fox uses this regime with moulting his birds out please have a look in his book for reference.

It seems to work for him.

[HawkStir]

Egg yokes where suggested, whats your method of feeding them?

[RabbitHawker]

Not being funny, but I have read your piece again and it says cod liver oil 1-2ml every other day, now you say that is not exactly what you use?? what dose rate do you use then??. There is a risk of toxicity giving your average 800g BOP 1-2 ml cod liver oil every other day, and I would not advise it to anybody.

[Mary Quite Contrary]

Not being funny, but I have read your piece again and it says cod liver oil 1-2ml every other day, now you say that is not exactly what you use?? what dose rate do you use then??. There is a risk of toxicity giving your average 800g BOP 1-2 ml cod liver oil every other day, and I would not advise it to anybody.


IT WAS A ROUGH GUIDE ie not correct, a estimate, a quote

OK RH i made a mistake! hands up you got me. Send in the Rossers.
I seem to have made a mistake with my post, 2 mg is the amount i use not 2 mil sorry wrong word used. which is about 2 drops . it must brilliant to be perfect.

Hawkstir i normally make a omelette with the eggs yolks.
But if the bird doesnt fancy that then i place the food in a small plastic bag and put the egg yolk in with and mush it up so it coats the meat.

[RabbitHawker]

You need to check your maths then as 2mg is approximately 1:500 of the dose you were suggesting, if people had followed this advice there could easily have been problems, for the record Nick Fox suggests 2 drops per kg. of bird.

[Mary Quite Contrary]

]You need to check your maths then as 2mg is approximately 1:500 of the dose you were suggesting,

WELL Give yourself a soggy cornflake


if people had followed this advice there could easily have been problems,

Stick your head in a oven, =are you going to do that as i have said it.


for the record Nick Fox suggests 2 drops per kg. of bird.[/quote]

Yes as in my last post.


As i said in my last three posts it was a mistake a rough guess , hold on did i count that right. wait there my cock is 18"long or is it "2,

I tell you what i will go to maths lessons as i cant add up or do measurements correctly and you can go to English lessons as you don't understand the written word or its meaning.

Now if you would like a ladder to get down from your high horse i am sure you can hire one.

I bow to you and your perfect existence

I am talking to a empty space.

[Claire]

calm down folks :roll:

[Goldie]

Dont the moulting blues just get you down :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Claire]

Dont the moulting blues just get you down :lol: :lol: :lol:

the bonus of helping at a centre is our birds will be flying all summer, no hunting but you cant have everything lol

[RabbitHawker]

I am only suggesting people take care with cod liver oil as it is high in vitamin d and could cause serious health problems if given in excess. You did state a very high dose rate, and that needed to be corrected with an explaination of the calculation and risks involved. I am a vet with an interest in the welfare of birds of prey, I am not looking for more sick ones to be brought to me, and I'm sure you would not want to be responsible for that. I'm sorry you are not mature enough to accept this without spitting out your dummy.

[Mary Quite Contrary]

:butthead:

[ColdZero]

Rabbit hawker, can birds cope with being obese like bears can, ie 'designed' for it?

[Gaz]

No.

[RabbitHawker]

No they are better off fit and lean. The larger falcons are particularly at risk of foot problems if overweight during the moult as they tend to be lass active than hawks. One suggestion from Nick Fox is to feed mornings as then much of the food is through the system by night rather than being fed up just before they sleep, will reduce the risk of foot problems.
The bird should always come straight to the shelf for food when fed, if it is slow to come down it is either too fat, or sick.
Birds can also suffer narrowing of the arteries due to obesity, but this is reversible with weight loss and exercise.