Another Grovsey Hood

[Gary F]

recieved today,,a ian<grovsey> hood for my male redtail,
cheers ian ,cracking mate:supz::supz:

[Leo 1]

verry nive lol i an i take it u like doint ya new turks nnotised it is on a rt lol whot size is it lol ot lol looks ace on my hoods to

[Gary F]

just recieved another hood from Ian,grovsey on iff,for my tiercel peregrine,
cheers ian

[Pearl]

looking good gary mate :supz:

[Gary F]

cheers mark,,,,,

[Pearl]

cheers mark,,,,,your welcome cracking looking falcon would look better here though lol :supz:

[Leo 1]

ians hoods carnt beat them all was pirfect fit and gd price to and verry gd qualty

[Grovsey]

looks nice on the bird gary glad your happy mate :lol:
ian

[Grovsey]

ians hoods carnt beat them all was pirfect fit and gd price to and verry gd qualty
cheers for the kind comments mate

[Gary F]

ians hoods carnt beat them all was pirfect fit and gd price to and verry gd qualty

spot on tigg

[PenelopeP]

He is bloody talented that Ian isnt he. :supz:

[Rocky]

Very nice Gary :supz:

[Gary F]

Very nice Gary :supz:
cheers mel,,i know you like your hoods,,give ian a try ,,mate

[Puddle]

yep top man, top quality :supz:
http://www.falconryforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=55456

[Grovsey]

well i finaly sussed the khan hood what you think
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t276/grovsey/hoods/PIC_0422-1.jpg

[Yeoman]

Excellent:supz::supz:
Atb Kev

[Steve77]

Very Nice Ian :supz: another top Job

Later

Steve

[Grovsey]

Excellent:supz::supz:
Atb Kev
cheers kev ,been playing around with it for a few weeks to stage im at now
ian

[Grovsey]

Very Nice Ian :supz: another top Job

Later

Steve
cheers ste mate

[Gary F]

very nice Ian,,,,like it mate:supz::supz:

[OLHAWKER]

The hoods might be well crafted, but they look like diving helmets on the birds and are a poor fit. The sides of the beak opening should fall just behind the cere and lips. If not, the bird can develope abrasions caused by the hood. Please check out http://www.falconryforum.co.uk/showthread.php?p=748085.

In my opinion you should seek a better fitting hood. One that just covers the eyes and doesn't touch the cere or mouth parts. Sorry for the negativity. :cry:

[Gary F]

im happy with ians work,,,and a few others are also,,,,
:supz::supz::supz:

[OLHAWKER]

Again, the craftsmanship of your hoods might be fine (“ians work”), but the pattern (and/or block) used isn’t. A good pattern and poor craftsmanship will result in a better hood than vice-versa.

Notice the comments and photos by Tim Laylock on:
http://www.falconryforum.co.uk/showthread.php?p=748085 (http://www.falconryforum.co.uk/showthread.php?p=748085).
The photos show hoods of proper fit where the beak opening clears all mouth parts. Two photos reveal damage done by a previous hood having a beak opening that was too small and contacted the sides of the bird’s lips. Even if no damage happens, such a hood is surely uncomfortable for the bird.

Also please look at the photos and read the comments of Ben Long on his website about hood fit:
http://benlongfalconry.co.uk/index.php?page=shop.browse&category_id=8&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=26 (http://benlongfalconry.co.uk/index.php?page=shop.browse&category_id=8&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=26)

The first four paragraphs here relate to hood fit and beak openings:
http://www.themodernapprentice.com/hoods.htm (http://www.themodernapprentice.com/hoods.htm)

The bottom line is a proper fitting hood should not touch the cere or lips, and the beak opening should ideally allow the bird to both eat and cast with the hood on. The hoods in your photos just don’t appear to satisfy these criteria.

[Gary F]

Again, the craftsmanship of your hoods might be fine (“ians work”), but the pattern (and/or block) used isn’t. A good pattern and poor craftsmanship will result in a better hood than vice-versa.

Notice the comments and photos by Tim Laylock on:
http://www.falconryforum.co.uk/showthread.php?p=748085 (http://www.falconryforum.co.uk/showthread.php?p=748085).
The photos show hoods of proper fit where the beak opening clears all mouth parts. Two photos reveal damage done by a previous hood having a beak opening that was too small and contacted the sides of the bird’s lips. Even if no damage happens, such a hood is surely uncomfortable for the bird.

Also please look at the photos and read the comments of Ben Long on his website about hood fit:
http://benlongfalconry.co.uk/index.php?page=shop.browse&category_id=8&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=26 (http://benlongfalconry.co.uk/index.php?page=shop.browse&category_id=8&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=26)

The first four paragraphs here relate to hood fit and beak openings:
http://www.themodernapprentice.com/hoods.htm (http://www.themodernapprentice.com/hoods.htm)

The bottom line is a proper fitting hood should not touch the cere or lips, and the beak opening should ideally allow the bird to both eat and cast with the hood on. The hoods in your photos just don’t appear to satisfy these criteria.

ok think youve made your point,,,has ive said and others we are happy with ians hoods,



















shut the door on your way out:roll:

[KKLouiseKK]

shut the door on your way out:roll:


I can see olhawkers point i think perhaps he just had the birds welfare in mind. The forum is here to learn from other peoples knowledge and constructive criticism.

[OLHAWKER]

Fair enough. :confused:

[EdenJohnny]

The hoods might be well crafted, but they look like diving helmets on the birds and are a poor fit. The sides of the beak opening should fall just behind the cere and lips. If not, the bird can develope abrasions caused by the hood. Please check out http://www.falconryforum.co.uk/showthread.php?p=748085.

In my opinion you should seek a better fitting hood. One that just covers the eyes and doesn't touch the cere or mouth parts. Sorry for the negativity. :cry:

Hi, can we see some of your hoods please Johnny

[OLHAWKER]

I’m not an active falconer and I do not have a bird. I practiced for about 25 years in the 50’s – 70’s (hence, "Olhawker") and was a member of the Southern California Falconry Association, one of the first falconry clubs in the US. I now volunteer for the Humboldt Wildlife Care Center in northern California rehabbing raptors for them, so far, an immature tercel Peregrine and an immature female Cooper’s hawk. Due to circumstances I did not hood either bird and so do not have any photos of a hooded bird. The only hoods I have are the few I recently made of different sizes using the Slijper pattern in the event we get a bird that one might fit. If not, I’ll measure the head of the next candidate and immediately make a hood for it. The Slijper pattern results in hoods that fit well and are comfortable for the bird. The hoods I make for these birds are not beautiful but they are quite functional as “field” hoods. I believe in the saying “Form Follows Function”. I have never bought a hood and never will. Too great a chance of a poor fit. It’s easy enough to make a quick hood, check for fit, and then make a second with more care and with the required modifications you notice from the first.

These are photos of a sewn Slijper hood I made. Slijper patterns are made from the bird's head measurement and a perfect fit is almost always assured. Although it is not on a bird I am sure it would be comfortable and fit well on the right bird and that the beak opening would clear the bird’s mouth parts. If not, I wouldn’t use the hood. In case you're interested, the black stuff inside the hood is artist's acrylic paint that serves to seal the needle holes. Also I’ve included a photo of a drawing I made long ago of a tercel peregrine flown by a SCFA club member with an “Indian” style hood (I didn’t make). This close-up of the bird’s head shows the fit I’ve been talking about.

[PeregrinesUK]

Hi, can we see some of your hoods please Johnny
OLHAWKER is completely correct with what he has written nice enough hoods (workman ship wise) poor fit on the birds - this has been covered many times including the threads detailed no reason at all for any one to get up set im sure if the hood maker saw the fit as shown on the pics hed advice the same here is a pic of my female pere with a correctly fitting hood Thanks Mike

[OLHAWKER]

Yes, that's the fit I've been talking about. Looks like a Slijper pattern. At any rate it seems Indian or Anglo/Indian hoods lend themselves to a better fit around the beak than Dutch hoods. Just my opinion but I'm sure many of the master hoodmakers would disagree. Gorgeous bird by the way.

[Grovsey]

here is a few pics of mj's site of the same type of hood and same pattern

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t276/grovsey/hoods/rollinshood.jpg
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t276/grovsey/hoods/rollins2.jpg
as you can see the gape is not fully open ,but the pattern does not rub the cere

[OLHAWKER]

Sorry Grovsey, but the mj hoods in your photos are another illustration of what I've been talking about. Great craftsmanship, but a poor fit at the beak opening. The hoods do appear to touch the back of the cere and definitely cross the back of the mouth. This is the type beak opening fit that caused the abrasions shown in Tim Laycock’s photos on:
http://www.falconryforum.co.uk/showthread.php?p=748085 (http://www.falconryforum.co.uk/showthread.php?p=748085).

When a hawk opens its mouth wide as when yawning or casting, the lower mandible moves downward while the upper mandible moves upward:
http://mainebirds.blogspot.com/2006_10_01_archive.html (http://mainebirds.blogspot.com/2006_10_01_archive.html) (3rd paragraph)

Some of you may have noticed this phenomenon this when observing your bird gape. This can cause rubbing these sensitive parts of the bird’s mouth when the hood beak opening is too narrow in this critical area. A better and certainly more comfortable fitting hood is shown in Mike’s photo earlier in this thread. I wouldn’t be surprised if it is also an mj hood, but one of his Slijper patterns. Like I said, I personally prefer the “Indian” style over the “Dutch” purely because of the beak opening.

We must remember the sole purpose of a hood is to cover the bird’s eyes, and that’s all. Satisfying this, the more freedom allowed for the mouth to eat, yawn and cast, the better, and more comfortable, the hood. In my opinion.

[Tim Laycock]

Nice hoods 8-)

Just my opinion (and its purely conjecture) but I think dutch hoods should fit like this.
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b348/Accipitrine/Viktor046.jpg

[OutHawkn]

recieved today,,a ian<grovsey> hood for my male redtail,
cheers ian ,cracking mate:supz::supz:


Uhhh...folks, you do know that hood doesnt fit that hawk properly ,right?

Oops, I posted this when I first read the beginning post, didnt realize that it has already been pointed out. The craftsmanship looks great though.........

[OutHawkn]

Nice hoods 8-)

Just my opinion (and its purely conjecture) but I think dutch hoods should fit like this.
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b348/Accipitrine/Viktor046.jpg

I agree...thats a VERY GOOD fit............:supz:

[Grovsey]

this is a topic that goes round and round and its all down to personal choice .hoodmakers such as ken hooke ,John Moran, Ron Rollins, Dennis Maynes and many others feel the same way,as long as the hood is the right size .if its good enough for them well its good enough for me

[Gary F]

this is a topic that goes round and round and its all down to personal choice .hoodmakers such as ken hooke ,John Moran, Ron Rollins, Dennis Maynes and many others feel the same way,as long as the hood is the right size .if its good enough for them well its good enough for me
its good enough for me also ian,,and everyone whos seen the hood on my falcon agrees its a good fit and nice craftsman ship,,,,that was from a guy whos been flying falcons for years,,

[Grovsey]

its good enough for me also ian,,and everyone whos seen the hood on my falcon agrees its a good fit and nice craftsman ship,,,,that was from a guy whos been flying falcons for years,,
thank you very much gary

[OutHawkn]

this is a topic that goes round and round and its all down to personal choice .hoodmakers such as ken hooke ,John Moran, Ron Rollins, Dennis Maynes and many others feel the same way,as long as the hood is the right size .if its good enough for them well its good enough for me

Sorry your offended, didnt mean to go there just thought the owner of the bird might want to know. I use ken hookes and ron rollins blocks and patterns. So I am familiar with them. From the look of the hood I dont really see anything wrong with it other than in my opinion, it is too large for the bird...

[Grovsey]

Sorry your offended, didnt mean to go there just thought the owner of the bird might want to know. I use ken hookes and ron rollins blocks and patterns. So I am familiar with them. From the look of the hood I dont really see anything wrong with it other than in my opinion, it is too large for the bird...
bill not offened at all mate ,just some people want the gape covered and are fine by it some want it fully revealed,gaz said he is happy with it and his fellow falconers are to .nothing more i can add really
ian

[OLHAWKER]

The hood shown by Tim Laycock has a beak opening that clears the mouth parts and illustrates a great fit. This is what hoodmakers (no matter who they are) should strive for and falconers should seek. I am curious who the hoodmaker is. And also who made the hood shown by Mike (PeregrinesUK).

Once made to the hood some hawks would wear a tin can without complaint. Just like jesses that are too tight or loose. Because a hood looks good on a bird doesn’t mean it fits properly. Those defending the hoods in this post that touch the cere and lips fail to mention why they think that’s OK. Or, that it’s not important that a bird be able to cast while hooded rather than gag. Or that a hood might rub sores on their bird’s mouth parts. I realize many hoodmakers make hoods like this. I just wouldn’t buy one and recommend that others don’t either. Not when there are alternative choices available like those shown in the photos by Mike and Tim. My criticisms are based on logic and intended to be constructive. So far no one has disputed the logic.

I’m aware many experienced falconers are fine with hoods that touch the bird’s cere or mouth. That’s obvious because you see so many. I just happen to disagree and have tried my best to explain why. It’s my hope that, just maybe, a hoodmaker will read this and be convinced to modify their patterns based on observations and opinions expressed here (not just mine).

A note to newbies:
The fit of a hood is of utmost importance when making a new bird to the hood. A poor fit at that time can make the experience intolerable, if not irreversibly spoil the bird for hooding. You should take special note of this and take great care in selecting the hood you start with. Many hoodmakers offer different styles of hoods and show photos of these on birds. I suggest you look carefully at the photos before making your decision. And choose based on your judgment of fit, not appearance. This post has opinions, photos, and information submitted by experienced falconers that should be helpful in this regard. After picking the style you want, correspond with the hoodmaker to be sure to get the best size for you bird. A head measurement may be necessary since all species and hybrids will vary somewhat in size. You may also choose to make your own hood. It’s really not that difficult and is a gratifying experience. You can find on the net free software for the Slijper pattern (for pc;s, not Macs). You would need calipers to measure the bird’s head (behind the eyes) and then input the result into the program. Then print the pattern and go for it. Many experienced falconers swear by this Slijper pattern and claim it “can’t miss” with regard to fit.

I realize I have irritated some with my comments and for that I do apologize. I want to assure everyone that I have no intent to offend anyone. I’ve tried to make my points as diplomatically as I could, but sometimes you just can’t avoid being blunt. Everything I’ve said is my sincere belief and offered only with the best intents for the good of the sport and for the comfort and welfare of the birds we all love.

[SakerJack]

The hood shown by Tim Laycock has a beak opening that clears the mouth parts and illustrates a great fit. This is what hoodmakers (no matter who they are) should strive for and falconers should seek. I am curious who the hoodmaker is. And also who made the hood shown by Mike (PeregrinesUK).

Once made to the hood some hawks would wear a tin can without complaint. Just like jesses that are too tight or loose. Because a hood looks good on a bird doesn’t mean it fits properly. Those defending the hoods in this post that touch the cere and lips fail to mention why they think that’s OK. Or, that it’s not important that a bird be able to cast while hooded rather than gag. Or that a hood might rub sores on their bird’s mouth parts. I realize many hoodmakers make hoods like this. I just wouldn’t buy one and recommend that others don’t either. Not when there are alternative choices available like those shown in the photos by Mike and Tim. My criticisms are based on logic and intended to be constructive. So far no one has disputed the logic.

I’m aware many experienced falconers are fine with hoods that touch the bird’s cere or mouth. That’s obvious because you see so many. I just happen to disagree and have tried my best to explain why. It’s my hope that, just maybe, a hoodmaker will read this and be convinced to modify their patterns based on observations and opinions expressed here (not just mine).

A note to newbies:
The fit of a hood is of utmost importance when making a new bird to the hood. A poor fit at that time can make the experience intolerable, if not irreversibly spoil the bird for hooding. You should take special note of this and take great care in selecting the hood you start with. Many hoodmakers offer different styles of hoods and show photos of these on birds. I suggest you look carefully at the photos before making your decision. And choose based on your judgment of fit, not appearance. This post has opinions, photos, and information submitted by experienced falconers that should be helpful in this regard. After picking the style you want, correspond with the hoodmaker to be sure to get the best size for you bird. A head measurement may be necessary since all species and hybrids will vary somewhat in size. You may also choose to make your own hood. It’s really not that difficult and is a gratifying experience. You can find on the net free software for the Slijper pattern (for pc;s, not Macs). You would need calipers to measure the bird’s head (behind the eyes) and then input the result into the program. Then print the pattern and go for it. Many experienced falconers swear by this Slijper pattern and claim it “can’t miss” with regard to fit.

I realize I have irritated some with my comments and for that I do apologize. I want to assure everyone that I have no intent to offend anyone. I’ve tried to make my points as diplomatically as I could, but sometimes you just can’t avoid being blunt. Everything I’ve said is my sincere belief and offered only with the best intents for the good of the sport and for the comfort and welfare of the birds we all love.

OLHAWKER,, I have watched this thread with interest but your last comments about what a hood makers no matter who they are ,, should strive for is wrong in my opinion. I have explained myself many times on this and other forums about why and why not etc and am not going to spend another minute talking about except for the following.
My hoods cover the soft tissue I want that area tucked into the hood not exposed. My feelings are shared by hundreds of hood makers, including John Moran and Ron Rollins who are some pretty darn good hoodmakers. If I make a hood that does not expose the soft tissue and it is very comfortable for the bird , does not move side to side etc then it is a good fitting hood. If hoodmaker X makes a hood that exposes the soft tissue and does not jiggle around and the bird is comfortable then it is a good fitting hood. There is NO DIFFERENCE a good fitting hood is a good fitting hood PERIOD!
Now then if you are buying a hood and you like the soft tissue to be exposed, no problem it is not better than mine or the hundreds of other hoodmakers, it is just different and it surley is a personal issue.
Some like one style others like another style.. ONE IS NOT BETTER THAN THE OTHER, JUST DIFFERENT.
Sorry I had to say something,, I am certainly not going to STRIVE for that look and there are hundreds like me that will not..
Not saying another thing on this matter, you like a certain look I like a certain look. It is all about fit and making the bird comfortable.

A NOTE TO NEWBIES.. Ask around talk to your mentors talk to other falconers and other hoodmakers, look at hoods on birds,,YOU DECIDE what style you like you, YOU make that decision,, a well made hood is what you are after,, and one that is comfortable, nothing more!

[Gary F]

OLHAWKER,, I have watched this thread with interest but your last comments about what a hood makers no matter who they are ,, should strive for is wrong in my opinion. I have explained myself many times on this and other forums about why and why not etc and am not going to spend another minute talking about except for the following.
My hoods cover the soft tissue I want that area tucked into the hood not exposed. My feelings are shared by hundreds of hood makers, including John Moran and Ron Rollins who are some pretty darn good hoodmakers. If I make a hood that does not expose the soft tissue and it is very comfortable for the bird , does not move side to side etc then it is a good fitting hood. If hoodmaker X makes a hood that exposes the soft tissue and does not jiggle around and the bird is comfortable then it is a good fitting hood. There is NO DIFFERENCE a good fitting hood is a good fitting hood PERIOD!
Now then if you are buying a hood and you like the soft tissue to be exposed, no problem it is not better than mine or the hundreds of other hoodmakers, it is just different and it surley is a personal issue.
Some like one style others like another style.. ONE IS NOT BETTER THAN THE OTHER, JUST DIFFERENT.
Sorry I had to say something,, I am certainly not going to STRIVE for that look and there are hundreds like me that will not..
Not saying another thing on this matter, you like a certain look I like a certain look. It is all about fit and making the bird comfortable.

thanks ken ,,,your opions are more then welcome,
think ian will be glad off your post also
atb
gary

[SakerJack]

I realize I have irritated some with my comments and for that I do apologize. I want to assure everyone that I have no intent to offend anyone. I’ve tried to make my points as diplomatically as I could, but sometimes you just can’t avoid being blunt. Everything I’ve said is my sincere belief and offered only with the best intents for the good of the sport and for the comfort and welfare of the birds we all love.[/FONT]

You have irritated some because you think your opinion is correct and everyone else is wrong. Telling others that your way is the only way is WRONG!
You have a sincere belief your way is correct and I have a sincere belief that my way is correct. We are not wrong we are different.. For sure the health and comfort of our bird is the most important thing.

[OLHAWKER]

Your opinion, of course, deserves the utmost respect. And what you said about me thinking my opinion is correct and you yours is also correct. Otherwise they wouldn’t be opinions. As I said above:
“I’m aware many experienced falconers are fine with hoods that touch the bird’s cere or mouth. That’s obvious because you see so many. I just happen to disagree and have tried my best to explain why.”
One reason I disagree is illustrated in the following photos posted by Tim Laycok in response to a thread I started on making hoods. I referenced my thread 3 times here but when I go to the thread it says “No members have read this thread in the last 14 days” so evidently no one reading this thread saw the photos. Here they are along with his comments:


This is the correct shape and fit.
<btw> Look what this little lads previous hood did to him http://www.falconryforum.co.uk/images/smilies/icon_cry.gif

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b348/Accipitrine/hood010.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b348/Accipitrine/hood011.jpg


A picture is worth a thousand words!

I also referred to Ben Long’s website
http://benlongfalconry.co.uk/index.php?page=shop.browse&category_id=8&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=26 (http://benlongfalconry.co.uk/index.php?page=shop.browse&category_id=8&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=26)

In the event readers didn’t go there here are his words:

Please note the fit of our hoods from the pictures provided. All hoods, regardless of style, should fit like those shown here. They should be:
1. Clear of the eyes
2. Snug against the face, EVEN when the braces are open, and
3. The beak opening should be clear of the mouth parts for comfort. ALL of the mouth parts should be visible.
Think of hoods you have seen in the past. Irrespective of the quality of manufacture, if they do not pass 1, 2 and 3, they DO NOT FIT!

In this thread many falconers have supported my view. Others have not. It’s obvious even hoodmakers don’t agree on the issue. I stand by my views on the matter as I’m sure you stand by yours. I’m glad you made your post and don’t mind the contradiction whatsoever. Advocates for both sides have presented here and there’s plenty of information for someone to use in making their decision when aquiring or making a hood .

[Shooter69]

Your opinion, of course, deserves the utmost respect. And what you said about me thinking my opinion is correct and you yours is also correct. Otherwise they wouldn’t be opinions. As I said above:
“I’m aware many experienced falconers are fine with hoods that touch the bird’s cere or mouth. That’s obvious because you see so many. I just happen to disagree and have tried my best to explain why.”
One reason I disagree is illustrated in the following photos posted by Tim Laycok in response to a thread I started on making hoods. I referenced my thread 3 times here but when I go to the thread it says “No members have read this thread in the last 14 days” so evidently no one reading this thread saw the photos. Here they are along with his comments:


This is the correct shape and fit.
<btw> Look what this little lads previous hood did to him http://www.falconryforum.co.uk/images/smilies/icon_cry.gif

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b348/Accipitrine/hood010.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b348/Accipitrine/hood011.jpg


A picture is worth a thousand words!

I also referred to Ben Long’s website
http://benlongfalconry.co.uk/index.php?page=shop.browse&category_id=8&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=26 (http://benlongfalconry.co.uk/index.php?page=shop.browse&category_id=8&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=26)

In the event readers didn’t go there here are his words:

Please note the fit of our hoods from the pictures provided. All hoods, regardless of style, should fit like those shown here. They should be:
1. Clear of the eyes
2. Snug against the face, EVEN when the braces are open, and
3. The beak opening should be clear of the mouth parts for comfort. ALL of the mouth parts should be visible.
Think of hoods you have seen in the past. Irrespective of the quality of manufacture, if they do not pass 1, 2 and 3, they DO NOT FIT!

In this thread many falconers have supported my view. Others have not. It’s obvious even hoodmakers don’t agree on the issue. I stand by my views on the matter as I’m sure you stand by yours. I’m glad you made your post and don’t mind the contradiction whatsoever. Advocates for both sides have presented here and there’s plenty of information for someone to use in making their decision when aquiring or making a hood .



looks like a woman s wonder bra there s MY OPINION :oops:

[Fraser Hamilton]

finlayr emberd to take pics of mine only hoods i have orded and not had to tamper with to get a perfic fit top man and top hoods
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k29/tazdastokamker/DSCF1296.jpg
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k29/tazdastokamker/DSCF1297.jpg
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k29/tazdastokamker/DSCF1305.jpg
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k29/tazdastokamker/DSCF1306.jpg

p.s sorry for the **** quolitay of pic

[Gary F]

look good frazer,,,nice hoods mate:supz::supz:

[Tim Laycock]

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k29/tazdastokamker/DSCF1305.jpg


Quick, Make a squeaking noise! :twisted: :lol:

[Fraser Hamilton]

Quick, Make a squeaking noise! :twisted: :lol:

thats just evil lol she digs in big time if tha dose happen :supz::lol:

[PenelopeP]

I have to say Ive had both covered and uncovered. Both hoods were a great fit on the falcon, and neither rubbed in any way. As stated by some already I dont think its down to where they sit on/off the gape etc, its down to if they fit properly and snuggly and not allowing for movement. Only movement will cause rubbing whether touching the soft parts or not.

[HarrisHawkingNovice]

Have no complaints with any of my grovsey hoods, no rubbing or irritation occured at any point.

[Derry Shaw]

The hoods might be well crafted, but they look like diving helmets on the birds and are a poor fit. The sides of the beak opening should fall just behind the cere and lips. If not, the bird can develope abrasions caused by the hood. Please check out http://www.falconryforum.co.uk/showthread.php?p=748085.

In my opinion you should seek a better fitting hood. One that just covers the eyes and doesn't touch the cere or mouth parts. Sorry for the negativity. :cry:

My thoughts entirely, any other opinion is simply of no consequence.:rolleyes::rolleyes::confused:

[Shooter69]

thats just evil lol she digs in big time if tha dose happen :supz::lol:
lol :supz: