Why We Sealed Our Birds

[Zzzaaahhhiiiddd]

It become a big debate when i posted some sealed birds.some falconers say it is good but some oppose that it is worse so i am now writing detail
sealing of birds eyes is continue since falconry started in Indo-Pak subcontinents.it is a save procedure if done properly but i think no hunter can know how seal birds eyes.many falcon dealers who do just business purchased birds in sealed condition.i will add right method with picture soon that you can understand that how sealing can done properly.but now i am writing why we seal our birds and these are authentic reasons hope you will understand.
1-any bird of prey when we trapped is full of anger sealing its eyes make it peaceful and stress less.
while suddenly if you hooded bird it is more stress full even we use a best fitted hood.
2-we can loose thread and can open its eyes a little gradually day by day that bird can see but little and its make helpful to accept living in new environment.
a hood we can not use gradually but after remove hood birds impression become more angry when he suddenly see changes in environment and again bird resist when you try to hood it again
3-freshly trapped birds can hit hood by its claws and it is great risk that he can also injured its fingers.
4-i never like to seal some birds like male peregrines.merlins,male sakers
kestrals and gyrs.i think these birds are easy to handle.
5-adult peregrines,adult sakers hawks have medium anger and i think they can be hooded after three days.
6- large eagles are furious and have more angry impressions therefore we always sealed their eyes but for juvenile birds we gradually open its eyes and hooded it in 5 to 7 days and for adult we gradually open its eyes in 10 to 15 days and then hooded it.
i think a mature and intelligent falconer can understand that how he do this and he also can change a sealed bird into hood or a hooded bird in sealed due to situation and behavior of his bird.
Our region's birds are more fit more mental and furious than western breeds and become more mental when live in this hot area therefore it is necessary to sealed a bird first that it feel no stress
7-any bird make an impression in his mind when he first time see a total different things when he have been trapped.so many wild birds especially adult eagles make a bad impression when they see suddenly a man or other thing he did not seen yet.sealing is prevent birds to make a harm full impression bird can save in mind and its resist gradually comes down meanwhile suddenly hooded bird can make a more stress full impression in his mind and can increase its attacks or fear with trainer or new environment.
hood is very necessary for bird and i must use hoods.but not as many falconers say to me because they did not know about our traditions of falconry and they mostly use now captive birds. we have continue this tradition from when falconry was started in Sub-continent and we get these techniques with a large time surfed in falconry
Europe have latest equipments and can measure birds stress by latest instruments i am doing challenge that eye sealing is best and less stress for wild trapped bird if done with method i will write soon in this forum meanwhile suddenly hooding a bird is more stressful for fresh trapped bird however i explained that which birds have less and which bird have more time remain in sealing.
hope you will read my posts with positive mind because i am sharing with you my knowledge i think it is treasure for me and our falconers.
here is a picture of adult peregrine sealed properly and eyes have no stress and second picture is sealed improperly you can see its eyes led become red due to stress

[Graham Stuart]

This is the 3rd or 4th thread you have started regarding this method of manning a bird, it is just going to bring the same arguments that the last threads had, i didnt comment on the last threads as i dont feel i know enough to make a judgment either way, for or against, are any birds ever injured whilst doing this or as a result of sealing?, you are not going to win over anyone who is against it with more threads(excuse the pun lol) it does look barbaric but as said the bird doesnt have nerve ending in the eye lids, dont know if this is a fact or not, but there are many things done in different countries which we will not all agree on so we should just leave it at that...Graham

[Adam R]

Zahid,

I'm afraid I must agree with Graham. Whilst this has proved to be an interesting topic for debate/conversation, the fact remains that there are those who don't see the need to seal a bird. I myself am neutral on the subject, but by posting another thread on the subject, you will only stir up the hornets nest even more.

Your traditions are your traditions. You have been practicing them for hundreds of years, so there is no need in my opinion to justify the reason behind them anymore.

If there is one thing I have learnt in my short time as someone who enjoys falconry, that is that everyone has their own way of doing things. As long as no harm comes to the bird, then I can't see the problem.

I realise what you say about eagles. In comparison to say falcons they can be much more of a handful.

All the best to you friend

Adam

[Zzzaaahhhiiiddd]

Zahid,

I'm afraid I must agree with Graham. Whilst this has proved to be an interesting topic for debate/conversation, the fact remains that there are those who don't see the need to seal a bird. I myself am neutral on the subject, but by posting another thread on the subject, you will only stir up the hornets nest even more.

Your traditions are your traditions. You have been practicing them for hundreds of years, so there is no need in my opinion to justify the reason behind them anymore.

If there is one thing I have learnt in my short time as someone who enjoys falconry, that is that everyone has their own way of doing things. As long as no harm comes to the bird, then I can't see the problem.

I realise what you say about eagles. In comparison to say falcons they can be much more of a handful.

All the best to you friend

Adam

please read my other threads they are different i will post now different threads but it is just for explanation and sharing of knowledge just for sharing not with wining aim

[Bala73PK]

Its the same old story we r still waiting 4 ur hunting pictures.We have seen lots of ur sealed eye trapped birds now we would like some with bells in field. Ur falconry experience

[CanadaManada]

Zahid,
Thank you for posting your threads about this controversial topic.
It's been very educational and I thank you for the pictures. I personally see nothing wrong with you doing this. I probably would prefer to use modern drugs to control the possibility of Asper but that's because they are readily available to me and I have the money for it. If I were living in a developing country I'd probably opt for the older, more traditional methods.
A number of people on here live in countries with extensive animal rights legislation, up to and including the banning of many practices that were once thought to be perfectly acceptable fieldsports.
I find it particularly disturbing that these people never seem to think very far into their arguements against something. For example, many falconers today enjoy the use and companionship of a hunting dog of some breed. In the UK or Canada for example, would it even be possible now to develop a truly new hunting breed of dog? Given the amount of CULLING of undesireable animals to produce a truly new and viable line, I would guess the answer is "no". Culling had always been an important part of dogbreeding and for that matter, breeding of any animal, but under current conditions haven't we legislated the breeders to sell imperfect animals?
I call this type of thinking "legislated morality". The fact is many people who now agree that the docking of dogs' tails is cruel are the same people who thought it perfectly acceptable at one time in the past. The fact is they've allowed a small minority to change things and then have accepted the changes as their own morals.
Zahid, I say you should continue sealing birds if it works for you. Those other posters saying you're going ot brin falconry into disrepute have no idea how the world works. You posting these pictures on the International Falconry Forum can have no real negative effect on the position of falconry in other countries, unless the falconers there are not willing to step out from behind their keyboards and do exactly what you are doing and that is standing up for your falconry traditions.
Thank you, Zahid.

Justin

[Taffwall]

Zahid,

I realise what you say about eagles. In comparison to say falcons they can be much more of a handful.

Adam


These 2 pics are of a falcon though:x
I'm not going into it again though. Made my opinions clear on previous thread.

[FlameHairedFalconer]

I do like the concept that the eagles are 'furious' when trapped. As opposed to other birds of prey which presumable are mearly just 'a bit peeved'. :lol::lol:

[Harri5Hawk]

please read my other threads they are different i will post now different threads but it is just for explanation and sharing of knowledge just for sharing not with wining aim
listen to this dude :supz:

[Yorky]

Zahid, thanks for sharing with the International Forum your local Falconry traditions.

I hope that others out there in other cultures wanting to share their own practices have not been put off from doing so through the negative feedback on your previous threads.

Once again many thanks.

please read my other threads they are different i will post now different threads but it is just for explanation and sharing of knowledge just for sharing not with wining aim

[Kennelre]

Its the same old story we r still waiting 4 ur hunting pictures.We have seen lots of ur sealed eye trapped birds now we would like some with bells in field. Ur falconry experience


You have made this same comment on most, if not all, the many threads relating to the issue of sealing.
It keeps getting lost and you are receiving no direct response...but I also believe that it's important at this stage to see some hunting pictures.
I believe a comment was made on one thread about there not being an available camera....if my memory is correct?
There is clearly a camera available for the sealing pictures, so there must also be one avaliable for the 'falconry' pictures. After all....the one is pursuant to the other, is it not?


...Rene.

[SolidLeo]

People who know the advantages of sealing a bird's eyes will not argue out here because they know exactly how it affects them and their birds.

[Wheels9R]

People who know the advantages of sealing a bird's eyes will not argue out here because they know exactly how it affects them and their birds.

How does it affect them and their birds?...please explain.

Zahid,

I have only been into falconry for about 18 months, so my knowledge is limited, so please bear with me.

You mention that after a few days you start to loosen the thread that is used to seal the birds eyes, so it can gradually see things around it. How do you loosen the thread?...do you have to hold(cast) the bird or can you do it with the bird calmly sat on a perch?..also, how does the bird react when its eyes are being sealed?...surely there must be alot of stress involved for the bird yeah?


Nick

[CanadaManada]

What is the point of asking for hunting pictures? Did I miss something or were we talking about sealing?

Justin

[MickeyDredd]

Justin

I think some members smell sh&te ;):lol:

[Leo 1]

i must say a rally disagree with it as i no i and u wooden like it don to u/us I see it as cruelty but thats is just me and people have the own way so i have no rite to say what is rite or wrong but that is my opinion

[Leo 1]

How does it affect them and their birds?...please explain.

Zahid,

I have only been into falconry for about 18 months, so my knowledge is limited, so please bear with me.

You mention that after a few days you start to loosen the thread that is used to seal the birds eyes, so it can gradually see things around it. How do you loosen the thread?...do you have to hold(cast) the bird or can you do it with the bird calmly sat on a perch?..also, how does the bird react when its eyes are being sealed?...surely there must be alot of stress involved for the bird yeah?


Nick

and pain i wood say

[Harri5Hawk]

Its the same old story we r still waiting 4 ur hunting pictures.We have seen lots of ur sealed eye trapped birds now we would like some with bells in field. Ur falconry experience
i ment to say listen to this dude :supz:

[SolidLeo]

This is what happen's, when it is not done properly....!!!!

[PenelopeP]

Zahid, please dont let the negative comment sput you off from posting the information you are. I am enjoying learning about a different way of doing things in a culture different from my own. Whether people think this is someone out to wind others up or not, its certainly good information with lots of interesting parts to it.

Keep on with the information.

[Sean White]

This is what happen's, when it is not done properly....!!!!

And I think this picture just about sums up the whole argument..... in this day and age and with the devolopment of modern training methods this practice should be left in the dated Eastern scripts from whence it came.
I have had posts deleted because of my beliefs on this subject and although I accept they maynot be everyone's views I cannot believe that with all the antifalconry "hype" going on at the moment that threads like this should be allowed to continue on a forum such as this.

[PenelopeP]

And I think this picture just about sums up the whole argument..... in this day and age and with the devolopment of modern training methods this practice should be left in the dated Eastern scripts from whence it came.
I have had posts deleted because of my beliefs on this subject and although I accept they maynot be everyone's views I cannot believe that with all the antifalconry "hype" going on at the moment that threads like this should be allowed to continue on a forum such as this.

But what you have to remember is that the lovely modern world you see around you may not be the same in other countries. Not all countries share our luxuries, nor have our modern technologies or medicines. I dont think that the sealing of eyes in Pakistan is about to get falconry here banned do you?
ANd as this forum is an INTERNATIONAL falconry forum, why shouldnt it be allowed to continue?

[Nig295]

And I think this picture just about sums up the whole argument..... in this day and age and with the devolopment of modern training methods this practice should be left in the dated Eastern scripts from whence it came.
I have had posts deleted because of my beliefs on this subject and although I accept they maynot be everyone's views I cannot believe that with all the antifalconry "hype" going on at the moment that threads like this should be allowed to continue on a forum such as this.

Bigot

[Sean White]

But what you have to remember is that the lovely modern world you see around you may not be the same in other countries. Not all countries share our luxuries, nor have our modern technologies or medicines. I dont think that the sealing of eyes in Pakistan is about to get falconry here banned do you?
ANd as this forum is an INTERNATIONAL falconry forum, why shouldnt it be allowed to continue?

If someone outside of the sport turned on thier laptop and saw that falcon in such pathetic state I wonder how they would see the sport ? ... and Indeed would they paint the whole falconry picture with the same brush? I fear they would ! Someone has already stated that the East make and produce most of and probably the best hoods globaly, so why not use them and do away with this dated practise?
Admittedly I'm of Western origin, and I do appreciate the many and varied - albeit dated -methods of training , I find this thread detrimental to our sport.... and belongs in the history books where cruelty and abuse seemed common.

[Kennelre]

Bigot

The dictionary definition of 'bigot' is....'an obstinate and intolerant believer in a religion, political theory'
You can't call the man a 'bigot' because he is opposed to the practice of sealing. People should calm down a bit!!!!:roll:
Is it totally impossible to debate on this forum?

By the way....I don't personally have a strong emotional response to the practice of sealing, before I get called a bigot too. There are lots of questions I want to ask on the subject though...and most particularly in relation to why there are so many threads on the subject right now.


...Rene.

[Graham Stuart]

If someone outside of the sport turned on thier laptop and saw that falcon in such pathetic state I wonder how they would see the sport ? ... and Indeed would they paint the whole falconry picture with the same brush? I fear they would ! Someone has already stated that the East make and produce most of and probably the best hoods globaly, so why not use them and do away with this dated practise?
Admittedly I'm of Western origin, and I do appreciate the many and varied - albeit dated -methods of training , I find this thread detrimental to our sport.... and belongs in the history books where cruelty and abuse seemed common.
I thought of this already but i couldnt be @rsed typing it lol, that last pic is sickening, we are the first to jump on folks backs when they post a pic with a bird teatherted wrong or on a **** bow perch yet this is ok, i feel for the poor bird.....Graham

[Graham Stuart]

The dictionary definition of 'bigot' is....'an obstinate and intolerant believer in a religion, political theory'
You can't call the man a 'bigot' because he is opposed to the practice of sealing. People should calm down a bit!!!!:roll:
Is it totally impossible to debate on this forum?

By the way....I don't personally have a strong emotional response to the practice of sealing, before I get called a bigot too. There are lots of questions I want to ask on the subject though...and most particularly in relation to why there are so many threads on the subject right now.


...Rene.
veery true, i asked earlier if during sealing had any bird been injured or sufered as a result of sealing but got no reply...Graham

[Sean White]

[QUOTE=Nig295;925658]Bigot[/QUOTE


I'm the first to admit I have my views and I stand by my upbringing and beliefs... but a Bigot is below the belt and you obviously have no understanding of the word.

If this was a UK falconer showing the same pictures I think the replies would be very aggressive, likewise if this was a picture of a puppy dog with needle and thread and eyelids sewn up it would be picked up by the national press.

"Bigot"..... ? does not apply to me.

:) :) :) :)

[Joey]

if its a tried and tested method in falconry it must work there are different methods used by different countrys so let it lie and let them man show you the methods that they use if its not your bird and not you doing it shut up and listen



joey

[Wheels9R]

Bigot

No need for that bud!

[Sean White]

No need for that bud!


Indeed I could have called him a "*****"...... but I did'nt.

[Bala73PK]

I am a heritage falconar frm Pakistan and know many falconar in my region. None of them use sewing method 4 their birds we all preffer hoods. Sealing involves great risk y one should risk their birds 4 a old tradition. This sewing was used many year back not any more after all what hoods 4 now. Sealing is only done by trappers in Pakistan because they sell them they dont care. non i have seen in my life training bird with sealing method. Passage male goshawk gets stressed more then any falconry bird but we use hood and dont let the bird 2 sleep 4 days walking around with the bird on hand as days pass tiny holes are made in the hood so the bird can see, as days pass holes in the hood r enlarged and so the bird accepts the surrounding. Its same as used in sealing u lose threads 4 the bird to see and we make holes in the hood. after 10 2 14 days hood is removed and we dont often use hoods 4 our goshawks after training . And Zahid non of ur post says ur falconry but only trapping sealing, selling u should talk 2 the forun as a passage bird trapper not falconar. U have never posted ur hunting pic but only trapped birds u show non with bells all in same condition found with trappers. U may b a good trapper but falconry should see wht we fly in Pakistan and how its used.

[Freddie1]

I am a heritage falconar frm Pakistan and know many falconar in my region. None of them use sewing method 4 their birds we all preffer hoods. Sealing involves great risk y one should risk their birds 4 a old tradition. This sewing was used many year back not any more after all what hoods 4 now. Sealing is only done by trappers in Pakistan because they sell them they dont care. non i have seen in my life training bird with sealing method. Passage male goshawk gets stressed more then any falconry bird but we use hood and dont let the bird 2 sleep 4 days walking around with the bird on hand as days pass tiny holes are made in the hood so the bird can see, as days pass holes in the hood r enlarged and so the bird accepts the surrounding. Its same as used in sealing u lose threads 4 the bird to see and we make holes in the hood. after 10 2 14 days hood is removed and we dont often use hoods 4 our goshawks after training . And Zahid non of ur post says ur falconry but only trapping sealing, selling u should talk 2 the forun as a passage bird trapper not falconar. U have never posted ur hunting pic but only trapped birds u show non with bells all in same condition found with trappers. U may b a good trapper but falconry should see wht we fly in Pakistan and how its used.

If this is what you are doing then sorry I am not happy one bit :box::box:
Steve

[Barry]

I am a heritage falconar frm Pakistan and know many falconar in my region. None of them use sewing method 4 their birds we all preffer hoods. Sealing involves great risk y one should risk their birds 4 a old tradition. This sewing was used many year back not any more after all what hoods 4 now. Sealing is only done by trappers in Pakistan because they sell them they dont care. non i have seen in my life training bird with sealing method. Passage male goshawk gets stressed more then any falconry bird but we use hood and dont let the bird 2 sleep 4 days walking around with the bird on hand as days pass tiny holes are made in the hood so the bird can see, as days pass holes in the hood r enlarged and so the bird accepts the surrounding. Its same as used in sealing u lose threads 4 the bird to see and we make holes in the hood. after 10 2 14 days hood is removed and we dont often use hoods 4 our goshawks after training . And Zahid non of ur post says ur falconry but only trapping sealing, selling u should talk 2 the forun as a passage bird trapper not falconar. U have never posted ur hunting pic but only trapped birds u show non with bells all in same condition found with trappers. U may b a good trapper but falconry should see wht we fly in Pakistan and how its used.

This is the best response in any of the current batch of posts on seeling (in the archaic texts I read in the past it was always spelled with 'ee' not 'ea').

Two add a bit, I was interested to see those supporting seeling on the original thread commented on how the bird seeled looked healthy and in good feather - well that's a pretty poor commendation for seeling as the bird in question had only just been trapped and seeled so it bloody well should be in good feather!

Finally, I'm a lazy sod, so I can't be bothered to re-type all my thoughts, so I have pasted below my post from one of the other threads.

Barry.

.................................................. .................................................. ..

I feel like I'm typing everything twice here, so for the sake of my poor typing fingers, this is my last input.

I have experience with wild taken birds. Including 5 Eagles.
I have experience with re-habbing wild injured birds. Including Eagles in addition to the above.
I have experience with seeled birds in addition to the above.
I have witnessed multiple eagles being seeled.
I have experience of asper senstive birds.I am currently flying my 11 year old Gyr who I have owned from the start and has just had 5 years in a chamber - no apser. The male who is currently in a chamber is 12. No asper. Neither seem any worse for not being seeled, including the during the journey from the US to the UK.

A wild taken Golden Eagle for example has the same fear reaction to people and new environments as a captive bred eagle bred in full seclusion and taken at a passager age. I have just such an eagle. Not seeled and in fact never hooded. She is nearly 9 now. She has never been given sporanox.

The wild eagle in low condition does suffer additional stress I admit, however, a dose of sporanox and a short period of heavy feeding through a hood with no casting given is a much better alternative to seeling.

My first point relative to stress is, if asper is gonna kick in, I see nothing that will bring it on as fast as the act of seeling.

In one year I saw several US eagles seeled in Wyoming while I was there trapping. Of those seeled, all died of asper' except one which was lost. So the argument that seeling helps prevent asper holds absolutely no water whatsoever. Incidentally, the one that was lost was not seeled.

The justification about the sutures being loosened to slowly allow light in as a falsehood. Fact is, the eyelids either side of the suture begin to sag as they dry out. This lets light and images in. The sutures are loosened to stop the eyelid tearing around the hole. This of course does let in a little more light.
The light stages can be replicated using hoods with ever looser gapes.

The hood is used extensively while the bird is seeled. This of course does help 'make' the bird to the hood, but it is also a precaution to make up for the sagging eyelids.

I'm not scientifically sure of the fact that birds have no nerve supply to the eyelids. It may be so, but I don't have the facts. however, I am sure though that no anaesthetic is offered during the seeling process.

I have never seen antibiotic offered as a precaution against later infection. As has been said earlier in the original thread, birds are presented at falcon hospitals in ME with infections related to seeling.

Add all this up and you will see that a justification of 'asper prevention' is the most incredibly insupportable reason you could give for seeling. In fact 'maintaining tradition' is probably more pertinent - at least it's true!

We know better. We should understand better. We should move on, protect our sport and let archaic and un-necessary traditions die.

As a final address to the tethering point. We can discuss the issue about tethering a bird of prey by the legs and its justifiability when we accept it is unjustified to lead a dog by the neck via a check chain.

Barry

[Sean White]

I am a heritage falconar frm Pakistan and know many falconar in my region. None of them use sewing method 4 their birds we all preffer hoods. Sealing involves great risk y one should risk their birds 4 a old tradition. This sewing was used many year back not any more after all what hoods 4 now. Sealing is only done by trappers in Pakistan because they sell them they dont care. non i have seen in my life training bird with sealing method. Passage male goshawk gets stressed more then any falconry bird but we use hood and dont let the bird 2 sleep 4 days walking around with the bird on hand as days pass tiny holes are made in the hood so the bird can see, as days pass holes in the hood r enlarged and so the bird accepts the surrounding. Its same as used in sealing u lose threads 4 the bird to see and we make holes in the hood. after 10 2 14 days hood is removed and we dont often use hoods 4 our goshawks after training . And Zahid non of ur post says ur falconry but only trapping sealing, selling u should talk 2 the forun as a passage bird trapper not falconar. U have never posted ur hunting pic but only trapped birds u show non with bells all in same condition found with trappers. U may b a good trapper but falconry should see wht we fly in Pakistan and how its used.

A good post and thanks..... Someone from that part of the globe who actually talks some sense.

[Turumti]

I am a heritage falconar frm Pakistan and know many falconar in my region. None of them use sewing method 4 their birds we all preffer hoods. Sealing involves great risk y one should risk their birds 4 a old tradition. This sewing was used many year back not any more after all what hoods 4 now. Sealing is only done by trappers in Pakistan because they sell them they dont care. non i have seen in my life training bird with sealing method. Passage male goshawk gets stressed more then any falconry bird but we use hood and dont let the bird 2 sleep 4 days walking around with the bird on hand as days pass tiny holes are made in the hood so the bird can see, as days pass holes in the hood r enlarged and so the bird accepts the surrounding. Its same as used in sealing u lose threads 4 the bird to see and we make holes in the hood. after 10 2 14 days hood is removed and we dont often use hoods 4 our goshawks after training . And Zahid non of ur post says ur falconry but only trapping sealing, selling u should talk 2 the forun as a passage bird trapper not falconar. U have never posted ur hunting pic but only trapped birds u show non with bells all in same condition found with trappers. U may b a good trapper but falconry should see wht we fly in Pakistan and how its used.

Spot on sir!! We use the same method for training our passage gosses as you have described. Seeling is also used, but as prelude to hooding, and not exclusively, and even so it must be done with he greatest of care.

Furthermore, like you I am also eagerly waiting for the falconry photos of our highly experienced compatriot falconer hunting with eagles, falcons and hawks. It would be a treat to see a imperial eagle catch a crane in flight!!!

[Pascoe]

I'm just waiting for the mods to come in and wipe off half this thread again...LoL....

[Sean White]

I'm just waiting for the mods to come in and wipe off half this thread again...LoL....

Rocky ground Pascoe..... ! your words maynot be welcome :)

[Pascoe]

Rocky ground Pascoe..... ! your words maynot be welcome :)

When it comes to opinions, my words are never welcome... It appears that strong minded opinions are frowned upon... We all have to be Politically Correct in this world and bow down to the sensitivity of others...HA....LoL....

[Zzzaaahhhiiiddd]

I am a heritage falconar frm Pakistan and know many falconar in my region. None of them use sewing method 4 their birds we all preffer hoods. Sealing involves great risk y one should risk their birds 4 a old tradition. This sewing was used many year back not any more after all what hoods 4 now. Sealing is only done by trappers in Pakistan because they sell them they dont care. non i have seen in my life training bird with sealing method. Passage male goshawk gets stressed more then any falconry bird but we use hood and dont let the bird 2 sleep 4 days walking around with the bird on hand as days pass tiny holes are made in the hood so the bird can see, as days pass holes in the hood r enlarged and so the bird accepts the surrounding. Its same as used in sealing u lose threads 4 the bird to see and we make holes in the hood. after 10 2 14 days hood is removed and we dont often use hoods 4 our goshawks after training . And Zahid non of ur post says ur falconry but only trapping sealing, selling u should talk 2 the forun as a passage bird trapper not falconar. U have never posted ur hunting pic but only trapped birds u show non with bells all in same condition found with trappers. U may b a good trapper but falconry should see wht we fly in Pakistan and how its used.
brother do not mind i have many pictures but i have save them for my book for me my book is more necessary it is not necessary that i do justify you.many Arab and European falconers know me well.just wait you will see soon in my book

[Raseni]

Zahid, you can clear yourself from all this with just a few photos of you and a fitted bird, on quarry. I can´t see how a picture like that is more important to you than many of the photos you have posted already, in concers of your book. Sorry but it seems to me that Bala hit something, since you replied the way you did.

My thoughts.-........I think you are a mere trapper, and full of it.

Sorry, I hope I am wrong.

cheers
Rasmus

[Zzzaaahhhiiiddd]

Zahid, you can clear yourself from all this with just a few photos of you and a fitted bird, on quarry. I can´t see how a picture like that is more important to you than many of the photos you have posted already, in concers of your book. Sorry but it seems to me that Bala hit something, since you replied the way you did.

My thoughts.-........I think you are a mere trapper, and full of it.

Sorry, I hope I am wrong.

cheers
Rasmus
i am not here to satisfy falconers i am just sharing my knowledge.

[Miliscer]

i am not here to satisfy falconers i am just sharing my knowledge.

But share your knowledge about what?

Whilst I find the "old traditions" interesting, they are just that "old" the amount of hoods coming out of Pakistan now for mere pennies, should mean you have ready access to any you need at a very low cost.

It would appear from reading this thread you are either as stated just a trapper and dealer looking for content for a book or you are in fact a fake.

Pictures would disprove the theory, but alas you are unable or unwilling for whatever reason to provide them

Mike

[EdenJohnny]

But what you have to remember is that the lovely modern world you see around you may not be the same in other countries. Not all countries share our luxuries, nor have our modern technologies or medicines. I dont think that the sealing of eyes in Pakistan is about to get falconry here banned do you?
ANd as this forum is an INTERNATIONAL falconry forum, why shouldnt it be allowed to continue?
Veryu true, It can only help the case of Falconry, It says that here in the Western World We have moved on, Which is only good for the Sport. One up for the pros, downfall for the Antis., I think Interesting thread though. I wonder what other practices used to go on in times past, or developing countries that we dont know about. Johnny.

[Turumti]

brother do not mind i have many pictures but i have save them for my book for me my book is more necessary it is not necessary that i do justify you.many Arab and European falconers know me well.just wait you will see soon in my book

Whats the title of your book?

[Bala73PK]

He is just in a black market of bird of prey. A fake falconar. Nothing he can proves regarding falconary. Just trapping and selling he can do. Not falconry

[Gil]

3-freshly trapped birds can hit hood by its claws and it is great risk that he can also injured its fingers.

Im sorry but that is complete rubbish, to say the least. They might damage their fingers but being seeled and pulling on the thread is a much greater risk. i dont think there is much to argue. whats worse, pulling your eyelids out or rubbing your fingers? point made.
That might happen but i find it extremley stupid, sorry to say this, that you use this for an example why seeling IS good.

[Sean White]

I sit and ponder.... but why are we seeing all these threads?. Surely this guy is'nt just promoting a book??

[Yorky]

Mike remember innocent until proven guilty?;)But share your knowledge about what?

Whilst I find the "old traditions" interesting, they are just that "old" the amount of hoods coming out of Pakistan now for mere pennies, should mean you have ready access to any you need at a very low cost.

It would appear from reading this thread you are either as stated just a trapper and dealer looking for content for a book or you are in fact a fake.

Pictures would disprove the theory, but alas you are unable or unwilling for whatever reason to provide them

Mike

[arthur_pewty]

As a previous poster already suggested, there is something not quite right about these seeling threads and the OP.................doesn't quite ring true

Not sure what the angle is, though

[Turumti]

Mike remember innocent until proven guilty?;)

And he has been proven!

[mr.algareeb]

is it the same in mangoly and kazakhistan?

[Gil]

is it the same in mangoly and kazakhistan?
i think mongolians do hood their eagles

[MusketMad]

SEALING not my cup of tea but a very informative post ..thanks a lot ....i would rather read things like this than posts about peoples harris hawks bathing and barn owls that stand on one leg ...

[K.K]

SEALING not my cup of tea but a very informative post ..thanks a lot ....i would rather read things like this than posts about peoples harris hawks bathing and barn owls that stand on one leg ...

PMSL:lol:

[JMorrison222]

it does take a slightly seasoned hand to seal a freshly trapped bird. i wudnt try it in the absence of a more experienced person.. however.. i do believe that its a lot more effective than hooding the bird... heard about this merlin once... that ended up with its talon in her own throat..... Jeez .. dont ever wanna see a bird in that condition...

Bilal

[Natch]

close the thread and ban the man:oops:

[Tony James]

close the thread and ban the man:oops:

Hi Gary,

I'm not keen to see a thread like this closed without good reason (and I'm not sure I see one), and the idea of banning the man is a complete mystery to me.
However, I would suggest to Zahid that rather than skip from one contentious thread to another, he needs to engage with those who have genuine questions for him, if he is to avoid the obvious conclusion being drawn that his contributions have behind them a less than honourable agenda.

Best wishes,

Tony.