Pere/Lanner

[Finnish]

Has anyone ever flown a female Pere/Lanner???
What was it like ???
What sort of weight did it fly at???

Thanks

[GriffMJ]

Thougth u got 1 in ur club Lee? Saw pics of it on your stand....

[Falconry Equipment International]

Yup Rescue job, 8 years ago, super aggressive, pitch usually at best mediocre, but on her day has been known to speck out, annoying habit with cock pheasant of fnatastic stoop from good pitches, stalls at about 300' knocks pheasant down, throws up, goes to land on pheasant , pheasant flushes and the because of her wide wing loading/sails flies em down like a gos usual flies around 1.09.5. She also came joint 1st in the 1st UK 'kite trials' & happens to be excellent display falcon so ong as you get her condition as well as weight right

[Finnish]

Griff i have been offerd a 3/4pere 1/4lanner in which i said yes i,ll take the bird on and see how i get on with her.I'am picking her up tomorrow.She fly's at 1ib 15

[BFC 007]

2 for sale on the ibr-high mounters
let us know how you get on with it finnish,may be interested if you decide to pass it on mate :)

[Athene]

I've heard they are better display birds than hunters, but I really can't understand why. They cannot be THAT slow on the stoop.

[Falconry Equipment International]

I've heard they are better display birds than hunters, but I really can't understand why. They cannot be THAT slow on the stoop. see my comments re : mine. however bear in mind the following:
1) this is the only hybrid I have flown of this type
2) she was previously mistreated , hence rescue bird & is a mal~imprint
3) Probably most importantly she really does not like ANY damp & will only really make any acceptable pitch on a regular basis , inwhen there is a) high atmospheric pressure, b) preferrably frost & C) gentle/ nil winds/ clear blue sky
4) I ,have put serveral seasons work into her to bring her round
. Therefy my presumptiomn is yes she is a great display bird in the summer. ( if she was in Seville in the winter 8) she would probably do a lot better than in our wet climate in the UK :wink:

[OhMyGod]

I flew a couple at corvids and one took gulls without having to be shown what to do, the other needed encouragement. I'm sure this 3/4 pere at this weight will be a super bird once entered and going well. will have some more brains than a pere and will probably check a bit less from a pitch.

Pere/lanner is not a display bird, it's a good killing machine machine, never seen a 1/4 lanner though

[Falconry Equipment International]

Pere/lanner is not a display bird, it's a good killing machine machine, never seen a 1/4 lanner though
This is a rather sweeping statement you have made!Oh yes they are as much as any species/ hybrid would ever make a diplay bird!
Are trying to say that I am not telling the truth? there are witnesses in the list that will back me up that have seen her fly many times ,both in displays and in the field! Of course though i have to bow to your superior knowledge as you have flown two of this hybrid, double what I have done( although I have flown mine for seven seasons/years

[M & J Raptors]

The best display bird we had was a Pere/Lanner , we flew him on several occasions at the FF, many years ago, he also killed many crows, if his weight was a little on the low side, he would wing over at 300 feet, and vertical stoop, then back up their in seconds,
sadly he was electrocuted on a junction box a few years ago,

[Falconry Equipment International]

The best display bird we had was a Pere/Lanner , we flew him on several occasions at the FF, many years ago, he also killed many crows, if his weight was a little on the low side, he would wing over at 300 feet, and vertical stoop, then back up their in seconds,
sadly he was electrocuted on a junction box a few years ago,
Hi Billy, sounds about their style to me. shame noen seems to use them id displays at the ffair these days
sj

[OhMyGod]

Displays are a waste of time for any bird, unless you have a barn owl.

Why would anyone want to put a peregrine in a display? Showing your birds off to the public is not cool in my opinion. Better to get out into the field I reckon, but whatever floats your boat. what ever you're into man

[OutFlying]

OMG, on another list someone quoted the following "falconry centres are to falconry as prostitutes are to love" - couldn't sum it up any better than that. As I mentioned before the F/f, the standard of displays are poor. This is supposed to the largest gathering of falconers in the world , i.e a fair for falconers but the displays are always aimed at the complete novice - with the usual "this is a lure, creance blah, blah blah".

There can be good display birds but I didn't see them this year.

[Hawkmaster]

Gerry Lawson bred some in Cornwall and they ALL made very high flying birds, mainly used in displays though. They were Pere/lanner though.

[Finnish]

Well just picked her up and she looks stunning.I will put some pic's up later.

[M & J Raptors]

Displays are a waste of time for any bird, unless you have a barn owl.

Why would anyone want to put a peregrine in a display? Showing your birds off to the public is not cool in my opinion. Better to get out into the field I reckon, but whatever floats your boat. what ever you're into man

OMG you would have probably still been in nappies when we used to do displays, :lol:
not much to hunt in the middle of summer though, o i nearly forgot we got paid lots of money to do it as well. :oops:

[BFC 007]

You got any photos yet lee?

[Finnish]

I'll put some up later mate.

[OhMyGod]

Yep, like I said whatever youre into ya know.

If you like the idea of training birds to do tricks and show them to a bunch of muppets for monetory gain you do that. Personally I have no interest in that sort of thing.

[Finnish]

I waited antil now cause she as just started to settle down she had a chick off the glove 20 mins ago so i took a few pics.

[BFC 007]

cool lee,looks a nice size bird.
The one im getting tomorrow flies at 1Ib 8oz,then again its only last years bird.

[Finnish]

In her first season she was flying at 1ib 14 so she is a nice size bird.I will just have to see how we get on. I'am going to start flying her straight away as she has not started to moult yet.Then hopfuly she will be going before i get the Gos back out.

[M & J Raptors]

Yep, like I said whatever youre into ya know.

If you like the idea of training birds to do tricks and show them to a bunch of muppets for monetory gain you do that. Personally I have no interest in that sort of thing.

OMG you want to try it mate, Joe public are easy, try flying a decent falcon in front of 1000s of falconers at the FF, waiting for something to go wrong,
anyway OMG by the amount of birds you have flown over your short hawking life, nothing can bother you surley, :lol: how many birds have you flown :?

[James_Falconry1]

I can certainly vouch for Screamin Jays Pere Lanner. I have seen her flying for the last 5 years. She is a cracking gamehawk (brought me many dinners) and through the summer puts in briliant displays Vertical stoops, high pitches, always wows the crowd.

[Falconry Equipment International]

:oops: :oops: aw shucks! :oops: :oops: :yawinkle:

[GriffMJ]

Julian, does she gamehawk & lure in displays?

[Falconry Equipment International]

Julian, does she gamehawk & lure in displays?
???? Not ssure what you mean really griff? she gamehawks in season & closed seasomn/ summer( picking her up next week) displays, yes she will stoop to lure

[GriffMJ]

Hi

Sorry, I just didnt realise you could mix the two? I thought once onto a lure then the falcon would be "Lure bound".

[Kevin Massey]

show them to a bunch of Muppet's

so you went straight into the pro-falconer stage, and skipped the Muppet stage?

well i for one was one of these Muppet's at one time and if it wasn't for display work i would never have got hooked on falconry,

yes now the appeal in watching displays has waved a lot...but i do like to watch some of them, especially if its something a little different.

Kev

[Kevin Massey]

finnish nice looking bird.......gawd them feet look big.

kev

[Shaun Byrne]

Yep, like I said whatever youre into ya know.

If you like the idea of training birds to do tricks and show them to a bunch of muppets for monetory gain you do that. Personally I have no interest in that sort of thing.

If you mean training your bird to the lure then all longwingers train their birds to do "tricks". Surely its a tried and tested way to get your bird fit and retrieve it at distance. So what is the problem with demonstrating this to an audience??

I wouldn't say no to a couple of hundred quid every time I lure fly my falcons.

Are you saying that you dont use a lure at all??

[Falconry Equipment International]

Hi

Sorry, I just didnt realise you could mix the two? I thought once onto a lure then the falcon would be "Lure bound".
why not? I needed 'both ' at the time & whilst perhaps not Ideal I have done this before with staright peregrines as well to help make ends meet. Must admit tho I have never encountered a "Lure bound" falcon.

[GriffMJ]

Thanks J

You have confirmed something 4 me :)

[BFC 007]

Picked her up this morning & she is awesome,flying weight is reckoned to be 1Ib 8 3/4 oz. Used as bird control on doncaster airport & trained as a gamehawk-chap i got her off reckons she is a very high mounter & stoops vertical as many times as you want her too.Going to drop her weight & get her going again & give her a late moult. 8)

[Kevin Massey]

bfc

does he still have the other one for sale?

kev

[BFC 007]

im not sure kev,he did say someone was interested in her,the other one was slightly heavier but not so high flyer-£100 cheaper as well. He also has a pere/saker/1/8 gyr which skys out & puts in a rattling stoop on anything in its path :twisted: but he reckons you have to go & track it half the time. Did you see the advert on IBR?
He has offered to take me grouse hawking in the season up in yorkshire with the famous Willow who features in the BFC journals. Nice bloke to meet.
Paul

[GriffMJ]

Hi BigFish

nice looker, how much? (if u dont mind?)

[Finnish]

She looks nice mate .

[BFC 007]

Half a grand Griff,will be in touch soon mate for some bits for the birds :wink:

[Kevin Massey]

did see the ad yes,

did you see the other pere-lanner?

kev

[GriffMJ]

Hi

Jeez 1/2 k....hope she does all that is expected from her. Let me know what you need and I will get it ready for u :)

[BFC 007]

cheers griff

[BFC 007]

did you see the other pere-lanner?
no mate,just this 1

[Kevin Massey]

Hi

Jeez 1/2 k

why is that a little over the top?

kev

[GriffMJ]

No ....prob cheap for a trained falcon :)

[Falconry Equipment International]

No ....prob cheap for a trained falcon :)
:roll: depends on how it's trained, capabilities of the trainer,history of & reason for hawk being sold IMHO
I have to say , I fail to understand why a trained gundog can go for several thousand pounds as oppososed to even the best hawks seem to be even lower than original price... although personally I would always want an untouched,untrained hawk as I have a 'clean sheet of paper'
<BTW> nice pics hawk looks almost feather perfect, good at this time of year with a hawk in immature phase
:wink:

[BFC 007]

yeah she is a good bird all over julian,sent off her mutes today to forbesy for analysis so we shall wait & see. How long do they take to get back to you with the results any idea anyone?
Julian- does her weight seem about right to you? Fat weight was 1Ib 13 oz
flies at 1Ib 8 3/4-9 oz

[OutFlying]

you can phone them on the day the sample arrives.

[BFC 007]

cool,cheers jim

[Falconry Equipment International]

yeah she is a good bird all over julian,sent off her mutes today to forbesy for analysis so we shall wait & see. How long do they take to get back to you with the results any idea anyone?
Julian- does her weight seem about right to you? Fat weight was 1Ib 13 oz
flies at 1Ib 8 3/4-9 oz
Hi BFC007
yup but bear in mind all hawks are different, mine is a mal imprint ( ex rescue bird)anyway as OF says if Neil gets the sample in the morning you can call mid afternoon for a result (don't wait for them to call you)
hope this helps
SJ

[BFC 007]

:)

[OhMyGod]

I spent about 6 years doing displays.

I once did a display single handed at the northamptonshire show with over 1000 people. Yes that was good at the time. but I wouldn't do it now as it is not falconry. I was the only falconer doing displays at Sun City SA where I did displays 6 days a week with 200 or up to 800 people somtimes, who would cheer and clap and then talk ******** at me for an hour afterwards and I can't be doing with it, it's not for me.

I'm a falconer not a ringmaster, or a clown.

But we're all different. Like I said, what ever you're into.

[Hawkmaster]

OMG we have all done displays, and we need to accept it is just another form of what we do.

[OhMyGod]

Yes it's another form of what we do.

unfortunately there are more and more back garden falconry centres popping up, most of them don't even know what falconry is and if you ask a general question they fill your head with rubbish and either havn't got a clue or are too arrogant to spend the time, in either case they shouldn't be running falconry shows.

they should call themselves circus entertainers and wear clown suits. Admittedly there are good bird shows, no good falconry shows as falconry is hunting with bop, not exercising human dependent birds.

You tell me who does good falconry shows, who takes quarry in it's natural state infront of an audience. This is what I would call a falconry display. Not the bullshitting nonsence I have seen in the past

waste of time I reckon

[M & J Raptors]

I spent about 6 years doing displays.

I once did a display single handed at the northamptonshire show with over 1000 people. Yes that was good at the time. but I wouldn't do it now as it is not falconry. I was the only falconer doing displays at Sun City SA where I did displays 6 days a week with 200 or up to 800 people somtimes, who would cheer and clap and then talk ******** at me for an hour afterwards and I can't be doing with it, it's not for me.

I'm a falconer not a ringmaster, or a clown.

But we're all different. Like I said, what ever you're into.

Christ, it took you 8 years to realize that Displays was not your scene, maybe you had some bad days :lol:

OMG what did you HUNT with last season ? i would be honoured to organise a proper Falconry meet on game just for you next season, and we will see just how good you say you are, or like i think you are full of *****,
only 1 clown that i can see on this debate :oops:

Mick Kane,

what the **** is your name, ?

[Hawkmaster]

To be fair on this one Mick, OMG is not hidding his name, as it there for all to see in his email address.

[Falconry Equipment International]

To be fair on this one Mick, OMG is not hidding his name, as it there for all to see in his email address.
Hm ... On no it aint!!! Just looked at his deatils & no sign of an email ady :?

[Hawkmaster]

SJ put your mouse cursor on the little email button on the above post OMG has last made and take a look on the bottom left of your Explorer window, and it say . . . .

[Falconry Equipment International]

Hm still have nothing also in safari( applemacs) it does not show addys even wehen moving cursor over email buttons you can only see these if you view profiles(btw there is no email button for OMG????)

[Goldie]

:P :lol:

[OutFlying]

SJ put your mouse cursor on the little email button on the above post OMG has last made and take a look on the bottom left of your Explorer window, and it say . . . .

It must be at moderator level, if you follow your instructions - the profile is highlighted but no further details. - Not that I'm personally interested.

If a display is going to be done at least the demonstrater of the falcons flying ability (not falconer) should do it well and provide a good visual display of a hawks ability in an artificial environment.

OF

[Falconry Equipment International]

Wise words yet again Jim :yawinkle:

[BFC 007]

Got results today-all 3 birds are clear 8)

[Kevin Massey]

OMG what did you HUNT with last season ? i would be honoured to organise a proper Falconry meet on game just for you next season, and we will see just how good you say you are, or like i think you are full of *****,
only 1 clown that i can see on this debate :oops:

Mick Kane,



no responce ?.......says it all dont it !!!

kev

[OhMyGod]

Yeah it says I have more of a life than people who take this forum too seriously, sitting infront of a screen waiting for somone to reply mass.

Billy
Unfortunately I have no gamehawk at the moment so I can't help you out with your offer I'm affraid, I've been concentrating mainly on my persuit addiction, and yet again I have paid for another persuit eyas. A perlin for gulls. Last season was with an eyas pere/saker and I took over 50 rooks and a few gulls, put her down to moult quite early and she is nearly done.

I spent 6 years doing displays, as a youngster, and yes I think it's not falconry. It's a circuc act, and no I don't need to wear a clown suit for what I do. I have seen many people dressing up in tites and various costumes to do displays looking like clowns but that's not for me. I just want to go out and hunt with my raptors, that's all.

Mass and I have already had a falling out and he will always continue to deride me for ever more, as he is a bitter lonely old man who takes "falconry" far too seriously and sits infront of his life all the time, so you can't really take any notice of him. If you look back at his threads you will see his harris hawks. His male is now dead due to his nievety, killed by an imprint probably. And I can honestly say it couldn't of happened to a nicer chap. He only ever complains, never says anything constructive, and never ever answers anyones questions when they are struggling with some aspects of flying raptors.

I don't hide behind this alias, I have put my name on hear many a time.

Billy casper you know nothing about me, or anything about my achievements. I believe I have given some sound advice on this forum concerning various topics ( not everything mind ), maybe you are one of those people who only sees the bad in people, shame but never mind at least I don't have to live with it.

regards

Tim Lowe

[M & J Raptors]

Tim

No i do not know you or ever heard of you, but some of your posts i do not agree with, so what do you want me to do sit back and nod my head ?

i thought that is what this forum is all about, christ if we all agreed on every aspect of Falconry how boring would it be,

we may meet in the field one day, and maybe i will change my opinion, after all this is were it all counts,

thanks.

[OhMyGod]

I can't agree more billy, for sure I have not had as much time in the field as people your age but I have learned much in the time I have spent. I have flown many birds and most of what I have achieved I have appeciated to the full, except for displays which I found very draining. I can't think of myself flying game again for a long time as this is not where my heart lies at the moment. A close friend of mine is getting 2 spars in a couple of weeks and I will have more fun getting these going than ponsing about after game, I just don't get exited by it. I quite like hawking ducks and did quite a bit in SA but not really bothered about peasants or partridge.

many people will not agree with some of my posts, however some people only critisise peoples posts and never say anything constructive to anybodys posts, just deride the posts they don't like. negativity does nothing for me, I will continue to do what I am doing as I am having a good time and getting good results in the field. As a young man I do not become attatched to the raptors I fly a great deal. I would rather fly them for two seasons only, this way I can train, fly a much wider veriety of raptors by the time I get to 42.

The reason I got a pere/saker is because I have had such good results from them in the past. The perlin is relativly new to me and as I have such a large source of quarry for one I will give it a go. I don't intend to sound big headed but I WILL succeed with it and will do it justice for sure. I refuse to pay attention to the comments made by people who have only flown arris awks and although I know I can get extremely good results with one I will probably never buy one again until I am at least 60.

They are too easy and I would learn nothing.

Like you are saying, I only have about 12 years experience, but when I go to clubs I see people much older than me who I believe are learning nothing, by flying harris only. It's not always your age that teaches you about flying raptors but the hard work you put in by flying different species to get a much better concept of what you want to achieve with individual species, and comparing results in the field. I have been fortunate enough to fly haggard and passage birds, imprinted and parent reared, I do justice in the field with raptors and just because my age is young does not mean I can't take game in the field if I had the land and money for quarry and wanted to dedicate 5 years of my life to training a dog and all the other aspects of game hawking. I am no expert at game hawking I admit. But I am not a novice and ( not aimed at you) I'm sure with the amount of years under my belt as others who say " you were still in nappies when blar blar blar" I would have learnt more and not got sucked into the whole 'falconry is my life, falconry is my passion' bull*****

[BlueHawk]

Sounds like someone's missed the point about falconry..
think you've worn out the I, me and my buttons on your keyboard OMG.
I was always told better to be thought a fool than open your mouth and remove all reasonable doubt..

[M & J Raptors]

OMG

I have been there some 20 years ago, but even then i could smell the bull, but i also respected the same, Ronnie Moore, Bob Haddon, along with others who i gave utmost respect,
i would never judge anyone who sits behind a keyboard, only in the field of play one of the best Gos lads i have ever known is only 26 years of age, and his dedication and commitment to the sport is admirable,

i was amazed given your age the amount of different Raptors you have flown over 12 years, and like you said it is feasible doing displays all over the world, but also like you say, not Falconry.

myself i have not flown the same amount over the last 20 odd years and still get a buzz from flying Goshawks for the last 18 years, i still enjoy flying Game with a Gos, and look to improve standards every year, over the last few seasons i have mellowed a little and if i never flew a Gos for a few years it would not bother me, i still like to get out with the lads, i like to think i have earnt a little respect also, but it did not come easy, :o

Billy

[OhMyGod]

I can totally understand why you have kept with the gos. I flew a female german for 2 seasons after my 2 seasons with the coopers. The gos can take bigger quarry and hold on to it, was easier to manage than the coopers and besically a totally different bird. However for me if I were going to but another accipiter I would choose the coopers again.

However, I would rather dissapear somwhere in southern africa, trap a couple black spars and have a season there with those in there own environment. It also costs nothing to live there. Somday before I reach 40 I will do this again. I think you may have enough time to get a season in there and return in time for the season hear as they are at opposite times of the year.

[LanczSpringer]

OhMyGod

You are entitled to your views as anyone is!

I agree with some of what you are saying but I think you are a little below the belt by saying

"His male is now dead due to his nievety, killed by an imprint probably. And I can honestly say it couldn't of happened to a nicer chap"

Surely nobody could wish things like this on anyone! I think you are way off the mark for this comment and an apology should be in order!

[OhMyGod]

yes you are right, he should appologise to his dead bird for being a nieve fool, I hope he does

[M & J Raptors]

OMG

You really are something else, :(

[Varmint]

Well OMG i have been a circus clown for more years than i care to remember, and have performed single handed in front of audiences at the largest gatherings in Europe (the French game fair has an average daily audience of 22,000 people and grandstand seating on four sides)

At that i got dressed up, even put on makeup? then went out and flew 5 falcons simultaniously to the same lure for over 15 minutes.

No i cant perform falconry in an arena and anyone who did would be doing our sport a disservice, but for some of us, commercial displays are a way of making enough money to afford to fly the birds we really want to fly on the type of quarry we really want to catch and afford the time to do it!

If you couldnt handle it? fine! but dont label us all as you!

Im With Mick when it comes to this field meet!

In fact, how about i bring along one of my clown birds and we'll see how it compares to your "Killing Machine"?

I think that your post's are normally well thought thru and any advice you offer seem's to be sound, but your well off the mark on this one Young feller and i feel that an apology is in order to quite a few folks here.

I work hard at what i do, and i try to make sure that the publics perception of our sport is a good one with clean welll presented birds which do as they should and appear happy, healthy and fun, i might dress up my displays in the interest of those folks who arent into field sports to make the sport of falconry appear more socially acceptable, but i am not a clown!

Adrian Hallgarth.

[Ben C]

OMG = Liam Gallagher of the falconry world, 'you gotta roll with it'

[Ben C]

Actually I think I will add a bit more if thats OK. Now OMG, I do not know you, nor can I offer up as much experience as you. And what I write is not aimed at you personally, only at the words you have typed. :)

It seems to me that you are on some sort of personal crusade which progresses through falcons and hawks as if they were in some way a means to an end. I have to ask what this end is, and if anyone of us could possibly learn all there is to know from 2, 3, 4 or 5 years with one of natures finest creatures? I doubt it, you'll only understand what you see, and if you already have a goal in sight, then that's all you will learn.

How can a man be so arrogant as to presume so much. In fact it seems to me that humans have caused so much pain and suffering towards animals because of this 'desire' to prove themselves. It seems from your postings that this marching forward allows you to dismiss any situation you think you have 'conquered'. There are as many ways to falconry as there are falconers mate. So you may one day be surprised to learn something from a Harris Hawk, you have just got to want to.

It is massively stupid to assume that the general public cannot differentiate between a 'display' and real falconry. They are far more aware than you give them credit. And be warned they will try and close you down unless you give them the displays they need mate. And it is not good enough to say, 'its ok I'll go to SA and practice it there'. Displays are a point of contact between the public which votes, and the politicians which ban.

As far as I can tell you are both erudite and intelligent, I cannot for the life of me see why you dismiss so much on your quest to be the greatest falconer you know. :) :) :)

Regards
Ben

[OhMyGod]

Varmint I'm not saying all bird shows are a waste of time, just most of them.

Bird shows are what they are and nothing else, so why are they called falconry displays? where is the falconry? is that in the imagination of the audience? that's not falconry that's dreaming.

I started out on this thread by adding my opinion. Why use a bird for display when it is more than capable of being used by a falconer in the field to do what it is made to do..... hunt.

Just my opinion, and I'm sticking to it. I'm the one who gets ***** on hear from certain individuals who just read posts then reply by saying "well said" and have not got the intelligence or balls to put down a messege of their own opinion, they just wait till a good thread comes up and say "just what I was thinking"

I've put my views accross on hear and despite the constant bambardment by people trying to wind me up and get into an argument with me

I refuse to appologise to anyone for saying I don't like what they are doing, even if it's somone I respect Varmint. You have your opinion I have mine and they are NOT the same!!!


I believe

99% of bird shows are **** and the birds are not well looked after with broken feathers, overgrown beaks, and other problems such as screaming and mantling.

Most people doing displays are talking ******** to the public and not giving a true representation of falconry.

Most display dudes are in it to look good and not for the welfare of the birds.

Some of the people on this forum do not and can not do falconry.

It's best to experiment with different raptors and achieve different things.

Doing displays and no hunting should be illegal to call yourself a falconer as it confuses people, I can light a match and blow it out it doesn't mean I'm a fire fighter.

falconry shows should contain falconry, or be called bird shows.

bird shows should contain healthy looking birds not birds with one fu****g eye..... muppets

You would get more justice flying your pere/lanner at real quarry instead of using it to show off for money.

And more......

Regards

Liam

[OhMyGod]

Benc

"I cannot for the life of me see why you dismiss so much on your quest to be the greatest falconer you know"

I do not, I go out with many other falconers with whom I respect and may learn from, fortunately they arn't armed to the teath with ferrets poles and arris awks, and no brains to even know what the word "sporting" means.

I like a challenge and that's what I give myself each and every season.

I don't think I am the world best falconer I just want to put a post or two without arris awkers deriding me. But that is impossible as this is the internet and it's to be expected. If we were all sat round a table now face to face discussing falconry ******** some people on this forum would not say a word because they cannot think for them selves.

My opinions are mine and not somone elses, they are not constant but they do not change from moment to moment to suit my point. I say what I think from experience not from listening to rubbish you get on hear.

This forum gives the wrong messege to beginners in many ways, and you as an experienced falconer should know this. It's all polotics benc and it smells like day old chicks left in a bag for a few days.

[Ben C]

You miss my point my friend. I am proud of my ferrets, and my harris hawk, and it is a creature of far more complex and subtle differences than you give it credit. As the many Phd students studying its behaviour attest.

I have no qualms at you setting yourself target etc, we all do that, it was just the tone of your message that makes it lose its content. I for one would sit in stunned silence because I know nothing to interesting yet, however that does not mean I cannot think for myself surely. It just means I've got nothing to say.....yet.

I like the day old chick metaphor....however I have only been 'doing' this for 11 months, so I hope you were posting with your tounge firmly in your cheek when you graciously called me an experienced falconer. :) :)

I am still right about the displays though mate lol lol

[OhMyGod]

If you choose to go the way of many and fly only harris for ever then thats fine, but you don't have to give your quarry no chance what so ever.

"the sporting art"

not the shear annialation and destruction of anything and everything, which in most casses it's the rabbit as they are easily taken.

Why always the harris?

what is wrong with flying native birds in their native environment at native species?

[Shaun Byrne]

How's the pere/lanner doing Lee? I think your thread has been hyjacked mate :D

Got to go now, got ferrets and arris awks to feed on the carcasses of numerous rabbits I've slaughtered :D

[Falconry Equipment International]

Well OMG i have been a circus clown for more years than i care to remember, and have performed single handed in front of audiences at the largest gatherings in Europe (the French game fair has an average daily audience of 22,000 people and grandstand seating on four sides)

At that i got dressed up, even put on makeup? then went out and flew 5 falcons simultaniously to the same lure for over 15 minutes.

No i cant perform falconry in an arena and anyone who did would be doing our sport a disservice, but for some of us, commercial displays are a way of making enough money to afford to fly the birds we really want to fly on the type of quarry we really want to catch and afford the time to do it!

If you couldnt handle it? fine! but dont label us all as you!

Im With Mick when it comes to this field meet!

In fact, how about i bring along one of my clown birds and we'll see how it compares to your "Killing Machine"?

I think that your post's are normally well thought thru and any advice you offer seem's to be sound, but your well off the mark on this one Young feller and i feel that an apology is in order to quite a few folks here.

I work hard at what i do, and i try to make sure that the publics perception of our sport is a good one with clean welll presented birds which do as they should and appear happy, healthy and fun, i might dress up my displays in the interest of those folks who arent into field sports to make the sport of falconry appear more socially acceptable, but i am not a clown!

Adrian Hallgarth.
Adrian nthe fact that I find myself in simliar shoes to you, running course etc ( albeit on a private basis & not open to the general public) should not detract from my support for your comments here... well said !!
I probably do between 10 - 20 show s a year, then many more corporate days & manay many more private days. In displays, despite the show orgainsers portraying this as a falconry display one of the very first things I do is to make sure the public aware of what they are about to witness and that is NOT a display of falconry. However I really resent the fact of it being called a circuss exercise . all my hawks flown are flown free & most are hunted. I explain this and what falconry actually is . i also very carefully explain that the flights they are experiencing are in fact either &/ or similar to a training /fitness flight m& should not be confused. Falconry should not be competetive inmy world, however If I am welcom on this field mett with Adrian & Mick , I will be also happy to attend also with some of my "clown " falcons . power to your elbow Ade!!

[Ben C]

Very true mate.......dropping from trees is pants after a bit anyway. I do slip him, and over a fair distance towards the end of the season. I would never destroy anything that I couldn't eat anyway.

Why the harris, well to be honest when we did the usual halk walk etc, I had NO idea what the Harris represented, how it hunted, its history in falconry or the fact that it is a beginners bird. In absolute honesty I chose the Harris because it excited me, and suited my personality. FULL STOP.

Your final line is right, nothing wrong with that at all, in fact thats where I will go eventually, when I have learn't all there is to know from my arris.
The problem does not lie with the bird, they are as nature intended....PERFECT. As always its with how humans use the tools, and why they use the tools.

Where would you recommend a falconer starts, and could progress without discarding his first hawk for bigger and more prestigious falcons.

[Shaun Byrne]

I would also like to volunteer for the field meet, but only as a Cadger. I have seen birds from both parties involved (Mick & Varmint) and although I practise my sport to the highest standard I can, I know that standard would not be high enough for such a field.

Know your limitations!!! :D :D

[Ben C]

And I would not let COCO anywhere near Little Stretton, or my tent!

[OhMyGod]

screaming jay

Sounds like your displays are good, informative and well managed. Shame 99% of the ones around are total pants, with nothing of interest to anyone over the age of 5.

Benc

I would recomend a harris for a begginer as it will keep them interested as they will get results without having to persevere too much with frustration. A harris is an excellent tool in the right hands, and a medioker one in the wrong hands where with any other species the wrong hands would probably fail completely.

Harris will take many different types of prey, maybe you can tell me why most people take just rabbits? what is wrong with partridge or peasants? mallard or rooks or gulls? moorhens are easily taken as are squirells but whats wrong with pigeons or doves or woodcock etc. sure they take a bit more from the person using the tool as they will have to switch their brain on instead of just 10 harris in trees and poles, ferrits down holes spade at the ready.

[BrianM]

screaming jay

Sounds like your displays are good, informative and well managed. Shame 99% of the ones around are total pants, with nothing of interest to anyone over the age of 5.

Benc

I would recomend a harris for a begginer as it will keep them interested as they will get results without having to persevere too much with frustration. A harris is an excellent tool in the right hands, and a medioker one in the wrong hands where with any other species the wrong hands would probably fail completely.

Harris will take many different types of prey, maybe you can tell me why most people take just rabbits? what is wrong with partridge or peasants? mallard or rooks or gulls? moorhens are easily taken as are squirells but whats wrong with pigeons or doves or woodcock etc. sure they take a bit more from the person using the tool as they will have to switch their brain on instead of just 10 harris in trees and poles, ferrits down holes spade at the ready.

i think your being just a little unfair OMG, to us harris hawkers

[M & J Raptors]

hes had a bad day, :twisted:

[OhMyGod]

I don't believe I am

[Shaun Byrne]

Come on OMG, you cant slate people for not hunting their birds and then slate others for only hunting rabbits.

Its down to personal choice and availability of land and quarry.

Its very difficult to obtain land for game hunting and the sort of ground needed for a decent persuit hawk is hard to find.

That leaves us with pesky wabbits, if it wasn't for this worthy quarry my falconry would have dried up years ago.

Although I do have a farmer begging me to fly over his 2000 acres of rook infested crops :D

[OhMyGod]

It's not the quarry h4wka, it's the unsporting way in which they are taken. You are right though, its down to personal choice, if people think they are achieving in this way, cool do it, if it pleases you, personally I think it's pointless to take rabbits in the way I have outlined above

[Ben C]

Ask Martin Hollinshead why, but specific to me? I take rabbits because they are the perfect prey for my hawk. They are as close to what they would hunt in the wild and if I am honest they taste lovely. And they are hard to catch properly. I can, have and will continue to take all of those you have listed (not partridge or mallard though just yet a few more buttons).

However OMG it looks like this thread has moved onto the dreaded arris arris arris.......so I gotta quit and leave you with the last word mate I am sure!!!! :)

[Varmint]

So it must be much more sporting to catch stuff out the car window or on Landfill sites, eh?

Damn, thats were i've been going wrong! :roll:

Each to their own OMG, and please dont start to preach about sport, you prob wouldnt know it if you saw it, who the fck do you thnk you are?

SUPERFALCONER>>>>>>>>?

[OhMyGod]

No, just somone who gives my birds a good slip every day.

No matter how far I have to go to achieve this.

[Falconry Equipment International]

screaming jay

Sounds like your displays are good, informative and well managed. Shame 99% of the ones around are total pants, with nothing of interest to anyone over the age of 5.
Thanks for that but have you seen one of my displays? I could be full of BS!
I would recomend a harris for a begginer as it will keep them interested as they will get results without having to persevere too much with frustration. A harris is an excellent tool in the right hands, and a medioker one in the wrong hands where with any other species the wrong hands would probably fail completely. I beg to differ on this there are what 20 -30,000 harrises now in the UK what proportion of them are being flown regularly or properly? I would suggest at less than 1%. I agree with you comments here but should not this be the precise reason for someone to start out with the hawk of their choice on the following conditions rather than a harris( that incidentally I believe it takes a more skilled falconer to get the very best out of) as starting this way with a Harris for a year or two , then progressing on to other hawks while the poor Harris at best is consigned to a free flight at best for the rest of it's natural! Thos econditions are:
a) the would be falconer has a mentor with suitable skills to help fly/hunt with said hawk/falcon etc in the appropriate discipline that is desired
b) that the discipline , ie gamehawking, rook hawking, goshawking etc etc is suitable for the terrain that the would be falconer has permission to fly & hunt over
As a child & teenager despite my enthusiasm for teh sport when ever I met a falconer, the first thing they would do is to try and persuade me not to take up the sport I now see sense in this as commitment required should be boundless. by giving the beginner what they wanted to fly in the 1st place, if the do fail the will not have a collection of hawks that have been used a s a 'stepping stone" to get to their ideal
Harris will take many different types of prey, maybe you can tell me why most people take just rabbits? what is wrong with partridge or peasants? mallard or rooks or gulls? moorhens are easily taken as are squirells but whats wrong with pigeons or doves or woodcock etc. sure they take a bit more from the person using the tool as they will have to switch their brain on instead of just 10 harris in trees and poles, ferrits down holes spade at the ready.
I also beg to differ with you here I also do not fly at rabbits( can't stand the taste personally) I have flown harrises at most of the corvid family( also can't stand the taste <VVBG>) , & whilst you dont get the fantastic ringing flight that you would with a falcon it is still a dam sight more exciting than seeing a harris self hunting drop onto a bunny bolted from a hole by a ferret, but as for partridge, pheasant( I will ignore the obvious joke , re your misspelling) & woodcock ,mallard or rooks or gulls,pigeons or doves your not seriously trying to tell me that a harris can take these in fair flight are you!
Even for a really fit gos, partridge & pheasant produce the most exciting /testing of flights, & I have yet to see a Gos take a woodcock in fair flight( yes I have caught several woodcock with a gos ,but only one coulod be called anything near fair and that is borderline.
I hope this makes sense. none of this is meant to be contentious and are just my thoughts.
SJ

[Ben C]

I concur with all you say SJ, and I have reached that point with the help of my mentor. Personally my hawking is conducted for the pot, however this does not detract from the need for excellence in terms of style. As I said I have CAUGHT most things on OMG wish list, but not in fine style. (one woodcock and two pheasants were a borderline case also)

One thing I will point out is that waiting on and slope soaring must be a goal that Harris Hawkers should aspire to. Continued free flight for the whole of a Harris' life would be boring, a change in style and a mastering of a different technique each season is a must. Achievable goals are fun to set yourself.

And I will blithly exclaim that slope soaring, (from what I have read only) is a skill and a specialised type of flying very difficult to control and therefore requires skills worthy of a GOOD falconer.

Harris Hawks can teach you a thing or two if you treat them with the respect and desire afforded to other more 'traditional' BOP. It is unfortunatethat they are considered a 'stepping stone' and that 20/30'000 (that is a startling figure) of them are as you say not flown properly because of the need for a 'better' more difficult accipiter/falcon.



:D :D

[Varmint]

Well put Screeming Jay, HH are not the walk in the park that most folk think and Ben has hit the nail right on the head when it comes to setting goals (as i say in my book!)

Motivation is the biggest factor in Harris Hawks and careful weight and mind management is essential.

If you think that HH's are too easy, i would hazzard a guess that you havent flown one properly.

I fly several HH's daily in several styles of flight and i get a bigger kick out of them over the season than i do out of any of my longwings, but then i do have to put far more work into them!

[Falconry Equipment International]

Thanks for thatb Benc & Varmint ( eruditely put both of you, managing to 2nd guess what i was trying to say) I have had "falconers" from other centres come on an introduction day that I provide( notice I very carefully avoid the words falconry and course!!!) & are amazed that you can fly one harris from rtree to fist/ follow on etc etc over 200 times in a session & the hh still nails the glove with a much greater sense of urgency than most of the 20-30,000 out there. If in doubt, there is a forum member whom has witnessed this many, many times Varmint , you are so right motivation is all important, (although in a different way to all other species that I use for falconry purposes)
all teh best
( hope you haven't got the winds & rain we have over there in NI Varmint... )
SJ

[Mary Quite Contrary]

Varmint I'm not saying all bird shows are a waste of time, just most of them.

Bird shows are what they are and nothing else, so why are they called falconry displays? where is the falconry? is that in the imagination of the audience? that's not falconry that's dreaming.

I started out on this thread by adding my opinion. Why use a bird for display when it is more than capable of being used by a falconer in the field to do what it is made to do..... hunt.

Just my opinion, and I'm sticking to it. I'm the one who gets ***** on hear from certain individuals who just read posts then reply by saying "well said" and have not got the intelligence or balls to put down a messege of their own opinion, they just wait till a good thread comes up and say "just what I was thinking"

I've put my views accross on hear and despite the constant bambardment by people trying to wind me up and get into an argument with me

I refuse to appologise to anyone for saying I don't like what they are doing, even if it's somone I respect Varmint. You have your opinion I have mine and they are NOT the same!!!


I believe

99% of bird shows are **** and the birds are not well looked after with broken feathers, overgrown beaks, and other problems such as screaming and mantling.

Most people doing displays are talking ******** to the public and not giving a true representation of falconry.

Most display dudes are in it to look good and not for the welfare of the birds.

Some of the people on this forum do not and can not do falconry.

It's best to experiment with different raptors and achieve different things.

Doing displays and no hunting should be illegal to call yourself a falconer as it confuses people, I can light a match and blow it out it doesn't mean I'm a fire fighter.

falconry shows should contain falconry, or be called bird shows.

bird shows should contain healthy looking birds not birds with one fu****g eye..... muppets

You would get more justice flying your pere/lanner at real quarry instead of using it to show off for money.

And more......

Regards

Liam



Well said :lol: just what i was thinking :lol:

[Falconry Equipment International]

Sorry only just picked up on this post ( must have missed after CPC left his comment), & generally I agree with you OMG. howver , see my comments below,Varmint I'm not saying all bird shows are a waste of time, just most of them.
Bird shows are what they are and nothing else, so why are they called falconry displays? where is the falconry? is that in the imagination of the audience? that's not falconry that's dreaming.

OMG I have to agree with you here, but what else do you call dsplays that the general public are going to recognise easily & alos as can be easily seen in Varmionts case in NI , the promoters/ press tend to make up their oun rules. so this is a very difficult one here
I started out on this thread by adding my opinion. Why use a bird for display when it is more than capable of being used by a falconer in the field to do what it is made to do..... hunt.
most diplays take place in summer months, & in the case of desert species & hybrids thereof , if they are moulting and being flown at the same time surely this must be their main flying 'season' with perhaps a very short season to get in on eg partridge before the Autumn equinox( I find after that as a rule the weather is too damp for these hawks to enable them to have consistent flights throughout the winter)
Just my opinion, and I'm sticking to it. I'm the one who gets ***** on hear from certain individuals who just read posts then reply by saying "well said" and have not got the intelligence or balls to put down a messege of their own opinion, they just wait till a good thread comes up and say "just what I was thinking" or could it alos be lack of time etc?
I've put my views accross on hear and despite the constant bambardment by people trying to wind me up and get into an argument with me that's what a forum is for , however everyone has the right to comment as well & express their views, & if in their eyes you view is are contentious then perhaps that is why they respond in a certain way
I refuse to appologise to anyone for saying I don't like what they are doing, even if it's somone I respect Varmint. You have your opinion I have mine and they are NOT the same!!! whom is asking you to apologise?
I believe
99% of bird shows are **** and the birds are not well looked after with broken feathers, overgrown beaks, and other problems such as screaming and mantling. Most people doing displays are talking b****cks to the public and not giving a true representation of falconry.
Most display dudes are in it to look good and not for the welfare of the birds.Some of the people on this forum do not and can not do falconry.
here, here . However there are plans a foot to bring displays etc into line, however despite all this there are still going to be 'rogue dispaly teams much as you mention:(
It's best to experiment with different raptors and achieve different things.
Doing displays and no hunting should be illegal to call yourself a falconer as it confuses people, I can light a match and blow it out it doesn't mean I'm a fire fighter.
falconry shows should contain falconry, or be called bird shows.
this will never happen how can to take a gorup of 10-20,000 people out into the field and show them a falconry, ie to my mind that is hunting wild quarry with a trained BOP esp Falcon
bird shows should contain healthy looking birds not birds with one eye..... muppets I know what you mean, less said teh better her as far as I am concerned!
You would get more justice flying your pere/lanner at real quarry instead of using it to show off for money.
And more......Regards Liam Mine has done both for many seasons and has earnt more than her keep both in the ring and the field( last hunting season she was flown very little. Season before she accounted for 27 Pheasant usually from a reassonable pitch.
all the best
SJ

[Mary Quite Contrary]

.

Just my opinion, and I'm sticking to it. I'm the one who gets ***** on hear from certain individuals who just read posts then reply by saying "well said" and have not got the intelligence or balls to put down a messege of their own opinion, they just wait till a good thread comes up and say "just what I was thinking"


Well said :lol: just what i was thinking :lol:[/quote]


:finga:

[Falconry Equipment International]

.

Just my opinion, and I'm sticking to it. I'm the one who gets ***** on hear from certain individuals who just read posts then reply by saying "well said" and have not got the intelligence or balls to put down a messege of their own opinion, they just wait till a good thread comes up and say "just what I was thinking"


Well said :lol: just what i was thinking :lol:


:finga: :shock: :oops: :rolleyes: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Ben C]

[quote I have had "falconers" from other centres come on an introduction day that... are amazed that you can fly one harris from tree to fist/ follow on etc etc over 200 times in a session[/quote]

That is an absolute disgrace, and is a dreadful indictment of peoples expectation of what should ostensibly be a working animal. Christ I've had 'Cody' going all day (5hrs) in slush, wind, brief rain showers and cold. And he missed every single rabbit, only for one to flush and pelt across a rape field as we headed home. He has flown at it regardless, and he was still going when the rabbit ran out of steam a 1/4 of a mile away. He landed near it out of breath and then they both started up. 'Cody' nailed it regardless. Not the cleanest most stylish flight, granted, but motivated, absolutely!!

[BFC 007]

BACK TO THE THREAD YEAH?
Hows the bird Finnish? you got it flying yet mate?

[Finnish]

Saturday she will be free mate.

[BFC 007]

nice 1-good luck...had mine loose since Tuesday & im just letting her ring up to a decent height then whistle & drop the lure out,good stoops.

[Falconry Equipment International]

Glad your enjoying them guys :yawinkle:

[BFC 007]

Finnish-how you doing with the bird mate???

[Finnish]

Just trying to get her fit mate she has not started to mount yet. But she is really unfit. i'll keep you posted.

[BFC 007]

8)

[BFC 007]

got her going really well now,first flight this morning i let her wait on at roughly 500ft for 15 minutes then stooped her down to the lure then the afternoon flight she dotted out & was up for around half an hour before i called her overhead then she tucked & dived- awesome sight
8) :D

[Hawkmaster]

Do you have a barometer to see when it is best for her?

[BFC 007]

no mate,she goes up in all types of air pressure paul- not so high if its overcast though,she started setting her wings at 3-400ft a couple of days ago so im now letting her fly off the glove then get back into the vehicle for a few minutes until she starts climbing higher-seems to have done the trick & she is under control 100% 8) last couple of days she has gone above the clouds & i give the thunderer a good blast & she comes out the cloud like a rocket mate.