HarrisXCoops

[VirD]

I´m very interested in producing this bird as my first hybrid and have both imprinted species, specially after what has been told about it in the forum and other literature. I just want to ask to the people who have done it, does it have to be a female coops?
Why have some hybrids of this species come out so good (calm and fast) while others have coe out badly (nervous, butterfly wingbeat, etc)??
Does the "mix" come out always the same proportion of hh and coops in it?
Is anyone anywhere NOWADAYS flying or breeding these birds? Why o why not???
Than you

[Daave77]

I´m very interested in producing this bird as my first hybrid and have both imprinted species, specially after what has been told about it in the forum and other literature. I just want to ask to the people who have done it, does it have to be a female coops?
Why have some hybrids of this species come out so good (calm and fast) while others have coe out badly (nervous, butterfly wingbeat, etc)??
Does the "mix" come out always the same proportion of hh and coops in it?
Is anyone anywhere NOWADAYS flying or breeding these birds? Why o why not???Than you

Obviously they'll have 50/50 from each parent, but you are as likely to produce calm and fast (your quote not mine) as nervous and butterfly wingbeat etc... thats purely down to genetics at its most basic level. Some crosses GENERALLY work better than others and those with experience breeding should be able to comment on what they have produced, but crossing genus like this will be a minefield to work out dominant traits that would emerge between the two so I think you'll find its hit and miss as to what they'll turn out like.
My tribred Falcon has (luckily) inherited the Peregrine wing shape, i'm sure this cross (Gyr/Saker x Peregrine) could have had a 25% chance of taking on the Sakers wing shape and it would be **** in high winds - a lot of it is guess work I think you'll find.
I can see why you are looking to produce this cross as you have both birds, but depending on what you are after the bird for, its rare you can improve on nature, evolution via natural selection has produced the best for the environment, the only exception I can see is when we require (or would like) a bird for a specific form of hunting - IE: Longwings for Crow, when crossing two similar species of Falconer tend to produce a bird that best suits the needs of the Falconer after a specific quarry.
As far as HarrisxCoops, I can't help thinking a purebred Gos would be ideal? Bigger than the Coops and faster than a Harris!

[VirD]

Hi Dave,
both birds (HH and coops) are very much flown down here and the ones I can use are not mine but can be available on request. Lets be honest, a coops will always require high maintenance to keep it calm (by this I mean tame and manned) and anytime it may just go wild even if you have imprinted it and followed all recipes, my best birds have all been accipiters but those where other years, now married with two children and less patience, I don´t think they are the bird for me... and the harris although a very good bird, it just hasn´t got that zest required in many hunting situations (for example duck hunting or quail hunting) YES you can hunt those with a HH but it´s not what they where made for. Now imagine you combine the tameness of a HH and the acceleration and manoevrability of a coops?
I´ve had a Russian gos which after 3 years I lost, one of the best hunting birds I´ve ever had. Native gosses are only in the northern part of Mexico, full of bad, BAD guys (mostly drug farmers) and only very few gosses come down so south.
My best option: the HarrisXcooper



Obviously they'll have 50/50 from each parent, but you are as likely to produce calm and fast (your quote not mine) as nervous and butterfly wingbeat etc... thats purely down to genetics at its most basic level. Some crosses GENERALLY work better than others and those with experience breeding should be able to comment on what they have produced, but crossing genus like this will be a minefield to work out dominant traits that would emerge between the two so I think you'll find its hit and miss as to what they'll turn out like.
My tribred Falcon has (luckily) inherited the Peregrine wing shape, i'm sure this cross (Gyr/Saker x Peregrine) could have had a 25% chance of taking on the Sakers wing shape and it would be **** in high winds - a lot of it is guess work I think you'll find.
I can see why you are looking to produce this cross as you have both birds, but depending on what you are after the bird for, its rare you can improve on nature, evolution via natural selection has produced the best for the environment, the only exception I can see is when we require (or would like) a bird for a specific form of hunting - IE: Longwings for Crow, when crossing two similar species of Falconer tend to produce a bird that best suits the needs of the Falconer after a specific quarry.
As far as HarrisxCoops, I can't help thinking a purebred Gos would be ideal? Bigger than the Coops and faster than a Harris!

[Jack]

I have been in the field with 3 of these birds. One I actually flew for a few weeks while the owner was injured. When he got the bird back it only lasted a week until it got fried on a transformer. In fact, the other 2 died the exact same way, just different poles. I spoke with a lady that owned and flew one of these same birds and it also died on a transformer. Now, to me, this is a strong pattern. Cooper's hawks, being accipiters, tend to park themselves in close to the bole of a tree. About mid way up most times. The harris likes to get on top of things. So you add the two together and you have a bird that likes to sit on things, but not on the very top, but a little way down and next to the pole. That spells transformer to me. So if you chance to breed up one of these crosses, I would recommend that you stay clear of transformers.

Jack

[VirD]

Hi Jack, VERY interesting what you say, I´ve only had a RT killed in a transformer and saw 2 other HH die the same way and have NO intentions of ever even getting close to one with my bird, but PLEASE elaborate a bit more about this hybrid, I have read very good things and other not so good opinions, why is it that some of these birds come out so good and others don´t? Did you see them hunt or just fly? Are they really tamer than a coopers? I would be ok if the can get as tame as an imprint female gos or passage harris, and at least have the speed of a female goshawk, that would be great news.


I have been in the field with 3 of these birds. One I actually flew for a few weeks while the owner was injured. When he got the bird back it only lasted a week until it got fried on a transformer. In fact, the other 2 died the exact same way, just different poles. I spoke with a lady that owned and flew one of these same birds and it also died on a transformer. Now, to me, this is a strong pattern. Cooper's hawks, being accipiters, tend to park themselves in close to the bole of a tree. About mid way up most times. The harris likes to get on top of things. So you add the two together and you have a bird that likes to sit on things, but not on the very top, but a little way down and next to the pole. That spells transformer to me. So if you chance to breed up one of these crosses, I would recommend that you stay clear of transformers.

Jack

[Jack]

Well, the only one that I did fly for a short time was a fairly good bird. I did not actually train it myself. It was an imprint of course, and was only slightly larger than a female Cooper's hawk. The average female Cooper's that is. It looked strange too of course. It looked like a scrambled up immature harris and an adult Cooper's. This was it's second year plumage. It had a super long tail, very short and rounded wings, and was fast as a bolt of lightning. I hunted rabbits, which it took well. Also hunted ducks when I could get at them easily. It required me to sneak up very close before a flush. We often hid down while someone else flushed the ducks across us or past us. I took a teal one day with him. I say him, but no one really knew if it was a male or female from what I can remember. I don't remember the actual flying weight, but it was around 20 ounces, or 1 lb 4. Or even 566 grams to others.
It was tame as your bird dog. It is not true that the Cooper's does not tame down. They get tamer then most hawks if handled a lot. And they remain so. We all know how tame a Harris can get. I seen no problems with tameness in any of the ones I know of. The one was a screamer, but it was not a loud noise at all and was nothing like that of a screamer Harris. Just a low mewing sound. Sort of like a little cat with a sore throat.
If you have the makings, go for it. I don't think you will be disappointed at all. That is all I can tell you about them.

Jack

[Kai]

:supz:intresting read any one got any pic of this hybrid please

[HawkFlyer]

:supz:intresting read any one got any pic of this hybrid pleaseyou bet me to it !some pics would be interesting

[Daave77]

you bet me to it !some pics would be interesting

Use the search facility on the site- there are previous threads with pictures.